Nothing new about the "new" covenant?

[LEPIDUS]

The "New" Covenant


Hebrews 8:10-13
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:


11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.


12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.


13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


Also found in:


Jeremiah 31:31-34
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:


33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.


34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


However, if we see in the greek text we find that the word "new" is not really new in the sense of it never existing before but rather new in quality.


Hebrew 8:13 (KJV)
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


In greek text this verse translates as:


Hebrew 8:13 (Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550)
ἐν τῷ λέγειν Καινὴν πεπαλαίωκεν τὴν πρώτην· τὸ δὲ παλαιούμενον καὶ γηράσκον ἐγγὺς ἀφανισμοῦ


The definition:


2537 kainós – properly, new in quality (innovation), fresh in development or opportunity – because "not found exactly like this before."


3501 néos – new ("new on the scene"); recently revealed or "what was not there before" (TDNT), including what is recently discovered.


3501 /néos ("new on the scene") suggests something "new in time" – in contrast to its near-synonym (2537 /kainós, "new in quality").


Now if it said neos then I can take it as new as it never existing before but it doesn't use neos.


Additionally, this "new" covenant was already established with the house of Isreal. Therefore, it cannot be "new".


I've broken down the "new" covenant.


Hebrew 8:
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:


Deuteronomy 6:6
And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:


Exodus 6:7
7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the Lord your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians.


Hebrew 8:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.


Isaiah 54:
13 And all thy children shall be taught of the Lord; and great shall be the peace of thy children.


Hebrew 8:
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.


Psalms 103:
8 The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy.
9 He will not always chide: neither will he keep his anger for ever.
10 He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.
11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.
12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.


Someone please explain how the new covenant is "new". I think, Ideally the "old" covenant was always intended to be followed by heart but the people had hearts of stone, and in turn were unable to grasp the purpose of his commandments. They tried to keep them by their means which failed horribly.


Ezekiel 11:
19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:


20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.


Now if we look at the "new" commandment found in John 13:34 we find the same Greek word for new.


John 13:34 (KJV)
34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.


John 13:34 (Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550)
ἐντολὴν καινὴν δίδωμι ὑμῖν ἵνα ἀγαπᾶτε ἀλλήλους καθὼς ἠγάπησα ὑμᾶς ἵνα καὶ ὑμεῖς ἀγαπᾶτε ἀλλήλους


But again it was previously commanded.


Leviticus 19:
18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.


I know there are other verses that have the same "new" word and I find it interesting how it changes meaning, point, etc. but maybe that should be for another thread. I just wanted to put my two cents on the "new" covenant. If someone has a different understanding feel free to reply.

 

[vic1980]

It begins with Jesus Christ when He was born, His ministry of 3 years, His blood shed on the cross, His ressurection and His ascension to the Father and the promise of the Holyspirit. And spreading the Good news (forgiveness of sin) to everyone about Him and what He did for everyone

God Bless

 

[vic1980]

The "New" Covenant


Someone please explain how the new covenant is "new". I think, Ideally the "old" covenant was always intended to be followed by heart but the people had hearts of stone, and in turn were unable to grasp the purpose of his commandments. They tried to keep them by their means which failed horribly.

Ministers of a New Covenant

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.


2 Corinthians 3:14-17

14But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. 15But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; 16but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.


What did the old covenant bring, and what does the new covenant bring to you ?


Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Galatians 3:21 Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law.

Galatians 3:22But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Galatians 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed.


law Strong Greek 3551 nomos

Strong's Concordance

nomos: that which is assigned, hence usage, law​

Original Word: νόμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: nomos
Phonetic Spelling: (nom'-os)

Short Definition: a law, the Mosaic Law
Definition: usage, custom, law; in NT: of law in general, plur: of divine laws; of a force or influence impelling to action; of the Mosaic law; meton: of the books which contain the law, the Pentateuch, the Old Testament scriptures in general.

where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty what does this mean to you ? It Good news.
God Bless

 

[LEPIDUS]

The foundation of God's throne are the commandments, I don't see how they would be dismantled.

 

[crossnote]

Hebrews has been contrasting the Levitical system and priesthood under the Mosaic Covenant (old covenant) with the promised New Covenant with Jesus as the eternal High priest. The main difference between the two is that the old (Mosaic) was a conditional covenant and the new was an unconditional covenant marked by ''I WILL, I WILL"

 

[Elin]

Someone please explain how the new covenant is "new".

I think, Ideally the "old" covenant was always intended to be followed by heart but the people had hearts of stone, and in turn were unable to grasp the purpose of his commandments. They tried to keep them by their means which failed horribly.

It's not about heart, or stone.

The old (Mosaic, Sinaitic) covenant was bilateral,
it required the people to comply or the covenant would be broken,
and curses would ensue.

The new covenant is unilateral, it is all the work of God.
Those born into it by the rebirth at true faith are not kept in it by what they do,
they do not have the power to break it.

The new covenant is definitely new.

 

[Mac4Yuma]

The first covenant was a physical Church and the second Covenant is a Spiritual Church that did away with stoning and such the laws that were physical were gone nailed to the wood that held Jesus as He died.

Mac.

 

[RedTent]

Comparing the covenants as this thread is doing is like trying to compare apples to oranges. The old covenant of Moses was not about being saved for eternal life with God, it never was. It was about how to live within the kingdom of God, and the blessings God gives when we live in that kingdom.

It was always through blood, faith and grace that eternal life was given and those things only. Those things are in the hands of God and scripture from the very beginning made that clear. Man, by what he did was never given power that only God had. There was a difference in the power of the blood through what Christ did for us when He was crucified. Scripture says Christ's blood resulted in salvation. The blood used in the sacrifices telling about this was only the symbol of Christ's blood and gave what scripture called atonement, related but not the same.

The new covenant was about salvation. It explained and made perfect the blood that was always used, it was new to the world and from Acts on in scripture it tells of the struggles the news media of the day had to explain that to people who had never heard of it before. It is a new covenant, a wonderful one, better than anything the world had seen before, better than the old one that had nothing to do with salvation. But it did not cancel out the covenant that told of the blessings that God has for us as we live our life in this world.

 

[LEPIDUS]

Comparing the covenants as this thread is doing is like trying to compare apples to oranges. The old covenant of Moses was not about being saved for eternal life with God, it never was. It was about how to live within the kingdom of God, and the blessings God gives when we live in that kingdom.

I never questioned the purpose of the covenants.

It was always through blood, faith and grace that eternal life was given and those things only. Those things are in the hands of God and scripture from the very beginning made that clear. Man, by what he did was never given power that only God had. There was a difference in the power of the blood through what Christ did for us when He was crucified. Scripture says Christ's blood resulted in salvation. The blood used in the sacrifices telling about this was only the symbol of Christ's blood and gave what scripture called atonement, related but not the same.

The new covenant was about salvation. It explained and made perfect the blood that was always used, it was new to the world and from Acts on in scripture it tells of the struggles the news media of the day had to explain that to people who had never heard of it before. It is a new covenant, a wonderful one, better than anything the world had seen before, better than the old one that had nothing to do with salvation. But it did not cancel out the covenant that told of the blessings that God has for us as we live our life in this world.

Only Christ blood could satisfy the requirement of the penalty of the law. I am no where questioning that just pointing out that long before it was mentioned in the New Testament, God intended that to be the covenant since the beginning.

 

[vic1980]

The "New" Covenant



Someone please explain how the new covenant is "new". I think, Ideally the "old" covenant was always intended to be followed by heart but the people had hearts of stone, and in turn were unable to grasp the purpose of his commandments. They tried to keep them by their means which failed horribly.

NLT Bible

Galatians 3:22 But the Scriptures declare that we are all prisoners of sin, so we receive God's promise of freedom only by believing in Jesus Christ.

KJV Bible

Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

God's law the covenant He made with Israel, points us to His son Jesus to fullfill the promise he ordain long ago. that was its main poupose.

God Bless

 

[crossnote]

Comparing the covenants as this thread is doing is like trying to compare apples to oranges. The old covenant of Moses was not about being saved for eternal life with God, it never was. It was about how to live within the kingdom of God, and the blessings God gives when we live in that kingdom.

It was always through blood, faith and grace that eternal life was given and those things only. Those things are in the hands of God and scripture from the very beginning made that clear. Man, by what he did was never given power that only God had. There was a difference in the power of the blood through what Christ did for us when He was crucified. Scripture says Christ's blood resulted in salvation. The blood used in the sacrifices telling about this was only the symbol of Christ's blood and gave what scripture called atonement, related but not the same.

The new covenant was about salvation. It explained and made perfect the blood that was always used, it was new to the world and from Acts on in scripture it tells of the struggles the news media of the day had to explain that to people who had never heard of it before. It is a new covenant, a wonderful one, better than anything the world had seen before, better than the old one that had nothing to do with salvation. But it did not cancel out the covenant that told of the blessings that God has for us as we live our life in this world.

The New not only covers salvation but also our entire walk as Christians.

 

[Scuba]

Ministers of a New Covenant

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

The Good News is not that God's Law is gone. God's Law being gone would be terrible news for those who love the Law but it would be great news for the wicked. The key word that should be focused on in Romans 10:4 is not the word (Law), but rather, the words (for righteousness).

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

In Christ it's not about keeping the Law in order to be accepted by God. I Christ the Law is not obeyed with a meritorious minded set, but rather, as an expression of love.

With the new covenant comes the new birth and with the new birth comes a new nature and with the new nature comes new desires. When one is born again it will be hard not to keep the Law because of your new nature.

1 John 2:29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.

Everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him. So you see, it's a birth issue not a works issue.

If you are made righteous through the blood of Christ you will practice righteousness because you are righteous.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

In Christ you don't practice righteousness to be made righteous. In Christ you are righteous so you practice righteousness. That means Christ is the end of keeping the Law to be made righteous but He is not the end of the Law to practice righteousness.

 

[Mac4Yuma]

The Good News is not that God's Law is gone. God's Law being gone would be terrible news for those who love the Law but it would be great news for the wicked. The key word that should be focused on in Romans 10:4 is not the word (Law), but rather, the words (for righteousness).

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

In Christ it's not about keeping the Law in order to be accepted by God. I Christ the Law is not obeyed with a meritorious minded set, but rather, as an expression of love.

With the new covenant comes the new birth and with the new birth comes a new nature and with the new nature comes new desires. When one is born again it will be hard not to keep the Law because of your new nature.

1 John 2:29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.

Everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him. So you see, it's a birth issue not a works issue.

If you are made righteous through the blood of Christ you will practice righteousness because you are righteous.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

In Christ you don't practice righteousness to be made righteous. In Christ you are righteous so you practice righteousness. That means Christ is the end of keeping the Law to be made righteous but He is not the end of the Law to practice righteousness.

well I think all one needs to know for what has been posted is just what is righteousness.

Psa 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.

Mac

 

[LEPIDUS]

Someone please explain how the new covenant is "new". I think, Ideally the "old" covenant was always intended to be followed by heart but the people had hearts of stone, and in turn were unable to grasp the purpose of his commandments. They tried to keep them by their means which failed horribly.

And this was more of a rhetorical question.

 

[LEPIDUS]

The foundation of God's throne are the commandments, I don't see how they would be dismantled.

well I think all one needs to know for what has been posted is just what is righteousness.

Psa 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.

Mac

Now to expand on this.


Psalms 97:2
2 Clouds and darkness are round about him: righteousness and judgment are the habitation of his throne.

Psalms 89:14
14 Justice and judgment are the habitation of thy throne: mercy and truth shall go before thy face.

From the previous verse quoted it is established that the commandments are righteousness, therefore, it is safe to say Gods throne is established on his commandments.

Additionally,

Exodus 25:
17 And thou shalt make a mercy seat of pure gold: two cubits and a half shall be the length thereof, and a cubit and a half the breadth thereof.


18 And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.


19 And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof.


20 And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be.


21 And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee.


22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.

 

[just-me]

Someone please explain how the new covenant is "new". I think, Ideally the "old" covenant was always intended to be followed by heart but the people had hearts of stone, and in turn were unable to grasp the purpose of his commandments. They tried to keep them by their means which failed horribly.

I know there are other verses that have the same "new" word and I find it interesting how it changes meaning, point, etc. but maybe that should be for another thread. I just wanted to put my two cents on the "new" covenant. If someone has a different understanding feel free to reply.

I have mentioned this before, and some (I will not mention their names) will dispute this input which I am ready to endorse.

One should also take note that the English word "covenant" in 3 verses are added. In context, the writer of Hebrews is focusing on the temple that was made by humans hands, according to the instructions given to Moses. He (the writer of Hebrews) is also addressing the priesthood. As you read these verses, read them without the added italicized word "covenant," and I think it will expand the understanding, and cause any confusion, previously wrestled with, to be alleviated. The word covenant that is not italicized belong in the text and are not added.

Hebrews 8:6-13
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant (added) had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith , Behold , the days come , saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not , saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying , Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest .
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith , A new covenant, (added) he hath made the first old . Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 9:1 1 Then verily the first covenant (added) had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

 

[LEPIDUS]

I have mentioned this before, and some (I will not mention their names) will dispute this input which I am ready to endorse.

One should also take note that the English word "covenant" in 3 verses are added. In context, the writer of Hebrews is focusing on the temple that was made by humans hands, according to the instructions given to Moses. He (the writer of Hebrews) is also addressing the priesthood. As you read these verses, read them without the added italicized word "covenant," and I think it will expand the understanding, and cause any confusion, previously wrestled with, to be alleviated. The word covenant that is not italicized belong in the text and are not added.

Hebrews 8:6-13
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant (added) had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith , Behold , the days come , saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not , saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying , Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest .
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith , A new covenant, (added) he hath made the first old . Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 9:1 1 Then verily the first covenant (added) had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

Thank you for sharing, it does sound different without the word there.

 

[Elin]

Comparing the covenants as this thread is doing is like trying to compare apples to oranges.
The old covenant of Moses was not about being saved for eternal life with God ,it never was. It was about how to live within the kingdom of God, and the blessings God gives when we live in that kingdom.

Don't take the teeth out of the old covenant and neuter it.

It was about righteousness, which is required for right standing with God and which saved from his wrath (Ro 5:9) on the guilt of their sin, giving them eternal life.

It was always through blood, faith and grace that eternal life was given and those things only.

It was always through faith by grace that eternal life was given and that the blood cleansed.

Those things are in the hands of God and scripture from the very beginning made that clear. Man, by what he did was never given power that only God had. There was a difference in the power of the blood through what Christ did for us when He was crucified. Scripture says Christ's blood resulted in
salvation. The blood used in the sacrifices telling about this was only the symbol of Christ's blood and gave what scripture called
atonement, related but not the same.

Neither the salvation of the NT nor the atonement of the OT is given apart from faith.

The new covenant was about salvation. It explained and made perfect the blood that was always used, it was new to the world and from Acts on in scripture it tells of the struggles the news media of the day had to explain that to people who had never heard of it before. It is
a new covenant, a wonderful one, better than anything the world had seen before, better than the old one that had nothing to do with salvation. But it
did not cancel out the covenant that told of the blessings that God has for us as we live our life in this world.

The old covenant was based on performance for righteousness.
The new covenant cancelled that out, and is based on faith for righteousness.

 

[Elin]

well I think all one needs to know for what has been posted
is just what is righteousness.

Psa 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.

Mac

Righteousness is two things in the NT.

1) It is justification - God's declaration of "not guilty," sin forgiven because of faith in Jesus Christ,
which saves one from the wrath of God (Ro 5:9) on their guilt at the final judgment.

2) It is sanctification, holiness - through the obedience that comes from faith.

 

[Elin]

Someone please explain how the new covenant is "new".

And this was more of a rhetorical question.

Rhetorical?

It's fundamental Christian doctrine.