What is worse Christians who act like atheist or atheirst who act like Christians?

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Oct 31, 2011
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#1
We are told that we are judged only through faith and grace, so that would mean how we act doesn't count. Often people who do not know Christ act in a way that is much more Christian than those who say they believe in the Lord. We know they can't gain salvation through their actions, can the opposite work----can we act like atheist and be saved because of our belief in God?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#2
Your first line assumes a lot.......

1. How we act does matter as God judges every work/word/act that man does.
2. The CONDEMNATION of the LAW is not directed at those who are in Christ
3. The loss of reward is aimed at believers who live anyway they want and can even forfeit their life by rebellion by the destruction of the FLESH so that the SPIRT will learn not to blaspheme!
 

OnThisRock

Senior Member
Jan 20, 2011
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#3
RedTent. Yup. I believe God is in charge of salvation. Always remember that God dusted his feet off of the pharisees who thought they had it all together.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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#4
Through grace we are not judged. Christ stood in judgment for us. Salvation by grace is a complete package and is perfectly complete and eternal.

Grace changes a man so the man is new in his nature and no longer desires to be like the old man under sin. 2 Cor 5:17 & 21 If this is not true then grace is absent and there is no possession of salvation.

Do not mistake religion for salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#5
How do atheists act?
Well Hollywood is full of atheist actors. :p
 
Oct 31, 2011
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#6
Through grace we are not judged. Christ stood in judgment for us. Salvation by grace is a complete package and is perfectly complete and eternal.

Grace changes a man so the man is new in his nature and no longer desires to be like the old man under sin. 2 Cor 5:17 & 21 If this is not true then grace is absent and there is no possession of salvation.

Do not mistake religion for salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Salvation as a complete package agrees with scripture. When we put on Christ and accept Him in our lives it changes our desires, this also agrees with scripture.

Now, we are told we sometimes do what we do not want to do. If we look at the world around us and Christians as they operate in the world we find lots of sin. As a example of it, most posts have people judging other Christians sometimes saying "go to hell". That is sin. I think we all have had business dealings with Christians who we trusted because of their statements they were Christians and found they couldn't be trusted. Scripture tells us we are not perfect at all, so much so that if we dare rely on any perfection in us, it is going to fail us. How do these things fit into our walk as a Christian? How far off can we be from how Christ wants us to be? Atheists often brag they do better at living well than we do, does that count?

Also, there is much in scripture that does not directly address salvation. Should we "judge" scripture according to how it does or does not apply to salvation? It seems to me that God looks at our world and us in a much wider and deeper meaningful way than only through salvation, it seems to me there is more after salvation. Yet, each time I have posted anything that says so, that post is judged as absolutely wrong. Do you really think it is wrong to see something deeper in what God tells us after we learn about salvation? Salvation is basic, it is the first requirement. Is there nothing more of God to learn, or are we to learn about the Christian walk, also?
 
P

phil112

Guest
#7
What is worse Christians who act like atheist or atheirst who act like Christians?
No such thing. By their fruits you shall know them. If that is how one "acts" they aren't christian. A christain doesn't "act", a christian is.
 
Jul 25, 2013
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#8
Your first line assumes a lot.......

1. How we act does matter as God judges every work/word/act that man does.
2. The CONDEMNATION of the LAW is not directed at those who are in Christ
3. The loss of reward is aimed at believers who live anyway they want and can even forfeit their life by rebellion by the destruction of the FLESH so that the SPIRT will learn not to blaspheme!
Will learn not to blaspheme? The sin against the Spirit shall not be forgiven in this world or the next, so how does it learn not to blaspheme again? When school is out it is out.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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#9
No such thing. By their fruits you shall know them. If that is how one "acts" they aren't christian. A christain doesn't "act", a christian is.
Christians are going to have quite a time with having fruits with absolutely no works or action!! Shall we know you by the fruits you show? Love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. You are going to have to start with that chainsaw so you cut only wood, your words haven't shown any of the fruits so far. And I agree before you start with your condemnation of me as needing to put more perfection in my life!! I keep this list on my frig door and work at it daily with prayer asking for help. Without Christ, I would be lost for sure, but I still try. But you are so far from even trying that your judgments and condemnations have even gone so far as condemning me for trying. I might be a black kettle, but the black you show to everyone, the bullying, makes your trying to make me out as only black a laugh.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#10
Will learn not to blaspheme? The sin against the Spirit shall not be forgiven in this world or the next, so how does it learn not to blaspheme again? When school is out it is out.
Maybe ask God as it is written in his word....so......blasphemy against the HOLY SPIRIT and to blaspheme are two entirely different aspects....LIKE to us God's name in vain is to blaspheme...to attribute the work of Christ to the devil is a state of unbelief and without faith a man is lost and not forgiven!
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#11
A person who is born again will desire to love God and all other people. They focus on the things unseen and seek peace and love. The natural man (Which can include self professing Christians) and Atheists will hate the true God of the Bible who is always loving and good and they will not seek to love everyone. The natural man cannot really understand all of what the Scriptures say. He reads the Bible like one putting their hand across the surface of a body of water. There is no depth to his understanding of Scripture and he habitually behaves in such a way that is carnal, worldly, and by sight and not by faith. They are not transformed spiritually. They are still the Old Man and not the New Man. They cannot see that they are doing anything wrong. They are a god in their own eyes and they do not know God or have a relationship with Him. For if they did, they would have the fruits of the Spirit in the way they talk, walk, and think. Does that mean a person is instantly perfect when they accept Christ? No. But the Spirit will always guide them to repent if they slip up. The Spirit will always guide them into all truth, love, and maturity in Christ.
 
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Oct 31, 2011
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#12
A person who is born again will desire to love God and all other people. They focus on the things unseen and seek peace and love. The natural man (Which can include self professing Christians) and Atheists will hate the true God of the Bible who is always loving and good and they will not seek to love everyone. The natural man cannot really understand all of what the Scriptures say. He reads the Bible like one putting their hand across the surface of a body of water. There is no depth to his understanding of Scripture and he habitually behaves in such a way that is carnal, worldly, and by sight and not by faith. They are not transformed spiritually. They are still the Old Man and not the New Man. They cannot see that they are doing anything wrong. They are a god in their own eyes and they do not know God or have a relationship with Him. For if they did, they would have the fruits of the Spirit in the way they talk, walk, and think. Does that mean a person is instantly perfect when they accept Christ? No. But the Spirit will always guide them to repent if they slip up. The Spirit will always guide them into all truth, love, and maturity in Christ.
This is so complete!! We are to die to self and put on Christ.

I would like this message to go deeper and further into our walk with Christ! If we simply depend on the Holy Spirit to do all our discipline of ourselves, if we say that we must divorce our doing from our spirit, if we don't follow up with study, prayer, love, even such as fasting if we need it, we are starving ourselves. You can see this visibly on CC. Two people, both of them who love Christ and give themselves to him, say that scripture says something very different from what the other says. Usually, it is because someone has stopped listening to parts of scripture and need more study. Or someone says they absolutely know all scripture leads to a certain interpretation when they either add to the meaning of scripture or ignore something another scripture says that would clear it up. Then, instead of humbly listening to scripture they stand firm on a personal interpretation. We all must guard against these things and never, ever stop learning and growing in Christ. Above all things, it is important to guard against judging others but develop love.

I am always impressed with one dear poster. She is very mature in her study, but in her answer to a post she always first finds something they say that is true to scripture. Then she points to other scripture to clear up their post. She is an impressive lady.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#13
No such thing. By their fruits you shall know them. If that is how one "acts" they aren't christian. A christain doesn't "act", a christian is.
Christians are going to have quite a time with having fruits with absolutely no works or action!! Shall we know you by the fruits you show? Love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. You are going to have to start with that chainsaw so you cut only wood, your words haven't shown any of the fruits so far. And I agree before you start with your condemnation of me as needing to put more perfection in my life!! I keep this list on my frig door and work at it daily with prayer asking for help. Without Christ, I would be lost for sure, but I still try. But you are so far from even trying that your judgments and condemnations have even gone so far as condemning me for trying. I might be a black kettle, but the black you show to everyone, the bullying, makes your trying to make me out as only black a laugh.
I don't see how the 1st comment deserved the 2nd.
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#14
Christians are going to have quite a time with having fruits with absolutely no works or action!! Shall we know you by the fruits you show? Love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. You are going to have to start with that chainsaw so you cut only wood, your words haven't shown any of the fruits so far. And I agree before you start with your condemnation of me as needing to put more perfection in my life!! I keep this list on my frig door and work at it daily with prayer asking for help. Without Christ, I would be lost for sure, but I still try. But you are so far from even trying that your judgments and condemnations have even gone so far as condemning me for trying. I might be a black kettle, but the black you show to everyone, the bullying, makes your trying to make me out as only black a laugh.
Amen, and bless your heart! I have no idea how, in terms of a mature Christian, they can act like an atheist. The Holy Spirit is supposed to be leading us into righteousness, and He does so lead the born again Christian. The old man is supposed to be dead, and we born again a repentant, new man of the Spirit. We are supposed to attain to being in the image of Jesus Christ! This is all Theology 101. I'm tired and don't feel like whipping out a whole string of basic scriptures involving the old man and new man, faith without works being dead, that those in Christ don't practice sin, again, tired, but offer these verses,

Hebrews 6:1-3 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.

Have you noticed that most such critics are still striving, bickering, over basic doctrine? Hmm... I strive to be more obedient and attentive to the Lord every day, succeed some days better than others, and attaining to perfection is commanded, to grow, in other words. I just say bless your heart again, RedTent, and don't let anybody ever tell you striving to be more like Christ is something to be condemned. That claim is plain disgusting and a lie. My attitude to such "Job's friends" people as that is you-know-what, if they can't take a joke, have a nice day, have a nice life.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#15
This is so complete!! We are to die to self and put on Christ.

I would like this message to go deeper and further into our walk with Christ! If we simply depend on the Holy Spirit to do all our discipline of ourselves, if we say that we must divorce our doing from our spirit, if we don't follow up with study, prayer, love, even such as fasting if we need it, we are starving ourselves. You can see this visibly on CC. Two people, both of them who love Christ and give themselves to him, say that scripture says something very different from what the other says. Usually, it is because someone has stopped listening to parts of scripture and need more study. Or someone says they absolutely know all scripture leads to a certain interpretation when they either add to the meaning of scripture or ignore something another scripture says that would clear it up. Then, instead of humbly listening to scripture they stand firm on a personal interpretation. We all must guard against these things and never, ever stop learning and growing in Christ. Above all things, it is important to guard against judging others but develop love.

I am always impressed with one dear poster. She is very mature in her study, but in her answer to a post she always first finds something they say that is true to scripture. Then she points to other scripture to clear up their post. She is an impressive lady.

The point your missing dear sister is that it is not of our works. Paul say's it is no longer I that lives but Christ through me. Paul himself acknowledging that the works he did were not his own but rather Christ through him. I know what your saying a christian should act and do such and such. But, it is impossible for a christiand to do and act such and such with out the leading and guiding of the Holy Spirit and received by faith in the cross and not our own actions. Because they are not our actions, they are the result of our faith in the work of the cross and carried out by the Holy Spirit.

The prophet spoke in faith and spoke not his own words, but the Word Of the Lord , which is Jesus Christ. To put faith in our works is to deny the cross. Secondly, faith in our own works is self righteousness and God will not accept it and will withdraw the Holy Spirit causing us to fail. God the Father will accept nothing but faith in the work of His Son and by doing that the Holy Spirit will cause to do and act such and such.
 
J

jkalyna

Guest
#16
I would say this, those who don't know it all, don't have all the answers, looking , seeking, but those who think they know it all, are lifted up in pride, puffed with with knowledge, and nothing else to learn, when in fact, the most learning starts at the foot of the cross, in learning of the spirit, from his word, which only comes being humble, as God resists the proud, but gives his grace unto the humble, so when the balances are weighed, he will be the judge, I have no correct answer, but a friend who is loving, helpful and an atheist, with a lot of love. :)
 
J

jkalyna

Guest
#17
No such thing. By their fruits you shall know them. If that is how one "acts" they aren't christian. A christain doesn't "act", a christian is.
YOu know I agree with you. The bible says by their fruit you shall know them, and that by their love if they belong to me. People could say things and not mean it in their hearts, and people could say things like their believers, and not show it in their lives, the word that was written "people honor him with their lips but their heart is far away. You know an atheist when he is hateful of people and thinks he knows it all. He know neither God, for God is love. So that is the real atheist. He that loveth not knowth not God. For God is love.
 
J

jkalyna

Guest
#18
YOu know I agree with you. The bible says by their fruit you shall know them, and that by their love if they belong to me. People could say things and not mean it in their hearts, and people could say things like their believers, and not show it in their lives, the word that was written "people honor him with their lips but their heart is far away. You know an atheist when he is hateful of people and thinks he knows it all. He know neither God, for God is love. So that is the real atheist. He that loveth not knowth not God. For God is love.
For your actions speak louder than words. My friend is an athiest, she loves a lot, shows it, is married, and does work volunteering to help deliver things, that is love, action, not just your lips moving.
 
P

phil112

Guest
#19
Christians are going to have quite a time with having fruits with absolutely no works or action!! Shall we know you by the fruits you show? Love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. You are going to have to start with that chainsaw so you cut only wood, your words haven't shown any of the fruits so far. And I agree before you start with your condemnation of me as needing to put more perfection in my life!! I keep this list on my frig door and work at it daily with prayer asking for help. Without Christ, I would be lost for sure, but I still try. But you are so far from even trying that your judgments and condemnations have even gone so far as condemning me for trying. I might be a black kettle, but the black you show to everyone, the bullying, makes your trying to make me out as only black a laugh.
Nowhere does the bible tell me, or anyone else, to tolerate false doctrine, which you advocate, and which I have pointed out - time and time again - using scripture.

Don't think I am just picking on you. I had a conversation with a preacher at church last night about just such things. Bullying? You must be a liberal. If someone points out error to a liberal they automatically shift into attack mode.
 
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phil112

Guest
#20
Originally Posted by phil112
No such thing. By their fruits you shall know them. If that is how one "acts" they aren't christian. A christain doesn't "act", a christian is.
red: "Christians are going to have quite a time with having fruits with absolutely no works or action!! Shall we know you by the fruits you show? Love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. You are going to have to start with that chainsaw so you cut only wood, your words haven't shown any of the fruits so far. And I agree before you start with your condemnation of me as needing to put more perfection in my life!! I keep this list on my frig door and work at it daily with prayer asking for help. Without Christ, I would be lost for sure, but I still try. But you are so far from even trying that your judgments and condemnations have even gone so far as condemning me for trying. I might be a black kettle, but the black you show to everyone, the bullying, makes your trying to make me out as only black a laugh."

What in my post triggered such a response from you? I made a simple statement of fact that was aimed at no one and you took personal offence. Don't you see something here that you need to work on?