The new covenant with Christ Jesus

just-me · Aug 24, 2014

Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed .

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Our Lord Jesus Christ was endowed with the fullness of His Father's Spirit unlike any other human. He was also born in the flesh, and therefore He is known as the Son of Man and the Son of God. According to the previously quoted verses neither Christ nor His Father (our Father in heaven) have changed their motives since the beginning.

John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Now there are many professing Christians who will say that the covenant of the Old Testament is obsolete and void because Israel didn't live up to the requirements and statutes of God. They will never say that God was guilty of breaking covenant, even though they say that the covenant is disannulled and obsolete.

My questions are these.
Now that we have a new covenant with Christ, does that covenant also become obsolete and void because of disobedience, or does God now (through the new covenant) look at His requirements and statutes differently than He did during the old covenant?

Is the only change in God's statutes the priesthood from Aaron (Levi) to Yeshua Messiah (Judah), plus the temple made with hands, and the new made without hands, or does the change make everything in the old covenant void, annulled, and obsolete?

Elin · Aug 24, 2014

just-me said:

Starting with the writers of the NT (Heb 8:13).

Heb 7:8.

As do the NT writers.

Until you learn the meaning of unilateral covenant and bilateral covenant,

and until you understand which covenant was which,

you only confuse and teach misinformation regarding the old covenant and the new covenant.

Stephen63 · Aug 24, 2014

Since the Law was a foreshadow of things to come (Christ), we no longer need the foreshadow for we have the real, yes?

Stephen63 · Aug 24, 2014

It's also my understanding that when people make claims that we should be following the old covenant, they end up quoting the prophets instead of the law itself.... just an observation.

KJV1611 · Aug 24, 2014

just-me said:

Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed .

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Our Lord Jesus Christ was endowed with the fullness of His Father's Spirit unlike any other human. He was also born in the flesh, and therefore He is known as the Son of Man and the Son of God. According to the previously quoted verses neither Christ nor His Father (our Father in heaven) have changed their motives since the beginning.

John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Now there are many professing Christians who will say that the covenant of the Old Testament is obsolete and void because Israel didn't live up to the requirements and statutes of God. They will never say that God was guilty of breaking covenant, even though they say that the covenant is disannulled and obsolete.

My questions are these.
Now that we have a new covenant with Christ, does that covenant also become obsolete and void because of disobedience, or does God now (through the new covenant) look at His requirements and statutes differently than He did during the old covenant?

Is the only change in God's statutes the priesthood from Aaron (Levi) to Yeshua Messiah (Judah), plus the temple made with hands, and the new made without hands, or does the change make everything in the old covenant void, annulled, and obsolete?

If you answer this question you will understand... How many people in the Old Testament were saved by keeping the law?

Karraster · Aug 24, 2014

Good questions Just-me. I don't know any scripture that says Almighty redefined sin. I recall that Paul said about sinning willfully:Hebrews 10:
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[SUP]27 [/SUP]But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
[SUP]30 [/SUP]For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
********************8
"And that slave who knew his master's will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, 48but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.

Messiah did not come to abolish the instructions or prophets! He came as a servant to do the Father's will, and that is the example He lived for us to follow.

p_rehbein · Aug 24, 2014

So very much wrong here............sigh...........

Now there are many professing Christians who will say that the covenant of the Old Testament is obsolete and void because Israel didn't live up to the requirements and statutes of God. They will never say that God was guilty of breaking covenant, even though they say that the covenant is disannulled and obsolete.

Why say something that isn't true? God did not "break" the Covenant, He FULFILLED the Covenant............the unbelieving Jews broke the Covenant, not God.

Yes, we do say it has waxed old........because the Bible says so........goodness........

As for the rest of your OP, it is fairly clear you have no concept of Law vs. Grace concerning the First and New Covenants.

Jesus FULFILLED THE LAW! JESUS FULFILLED THE FIRST COVENANT...........and He gave rise to the NEW COVENANT, GRACE.

It isn't brain surgery.............goodness........just read your Bible

crossnote · Aug 24, 2014

The Mosaic Law was between Israel and the Lord, as pictured in the Book of Hebrews and 2Cor a fading Covenant from the start to foreshadow the eternal and better Covenant...

But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
(Heb 8:6-12)

Kerry · Aug 24, 2014

The OT is given us an example and also to realize the benefits of the NT. I meant you can't know the benefits of windows 8 unless you have worked with DOS 7.0. Also the OT is riddled with the cross, over and over you see the cross. That's what the sacrifice was a symbol of what was to come.

MidniteWelder · Aug 25, 2014

Abraham, a righteous man who was commended for his Faith in God, interceded for the city of Sodom for God not to destroy it even if there were a mere 50 righteous people there.
God conceded and said he would not destroy it for the sake of 50.
Abraham got an agreement so decided to go a little further, humbly of course.
and then asked for mercy for the entire city if there were even 40 righteous.
The Lord conceded, even if there are 40 he would spare the whole city so as not to sweep away the righteous along with the wicked.
Abraham finally negotiated with the Lord that if even Ten, just 10 people in all the city were righteous, the Lord would spare the city for their sake.

Guess what happened to Sodom.

Here's what I wonder, if people would listen to God, stop trying to write their own guidelines, and were righteous...would Christ have had to endure what he did for the sake of others.
Probably so.
So what it looks like is it comes down to righteousness.
what is the measure of righteous except for doing what is right.
Right by whom?
By us, or by God.
What is right by God?

everybody screams and cries ohh whoooah I cant do it, Im a sinner created a sinner
I see too many hold on to that verse as if it's what we should aspire to instead of seeing that it's an observation.
and forget that we're SUPPOSE to be born again.
Born as a slave to righteousness.
God had to send his son because people don't wanna listen.
They wanna listen to what sounds good to themselves.

The New covenant?
How many would God have to destroy now if he couldn't even find 10 righteous in Sodom?

God had to bring a new covenant and Christ suffer for us just so we wouldn't end up like Sodom.
I hope everybody feels better about that.
I wonder how many God would find righteous today.
Compared to people who make excuses to remain as they are.

Even with the new covenant...
We should aspire to righteousness, instead of justifying to remain a sinner under grace.

psychomom · Aug 25, 2014

i'm all in for obedience, but...

shouldn't we be calling it the New Covenant of Jesus Christ?

just-me · Aug 25, 2014

KJV1611 said:

Salvation is being delivered from a certain dreadful consequence, according to the righteous judgment of God. Those that were of an upright heart and presented to the temple priest a sacrifice, or offering of their own free will, their transgression was forgiven according to God's temple ordinances. Through this kind of faith, sincerity, fear of the Lord God, that instigated obedience unto God they were justified, and saved. The law by itself never justified anyone, and in my opening post I never mentioned the law. That is not the focus of this thread. The temple sacrifices, and offerings of the old covenant is what I am addressing. Granted the temple worship of both old and new covenants are ordinances (laws if you will) given by God, not man.

Habakkuk 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

The above scripture is under the old covenant statutes. The following 3 scripture references are a reaffirmation of the above.

Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written , The just shall live by faith.
Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back , my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

They were given atonement for their sin by the priest's sacrifice for himself, through their sacrifice given to the priest to divide the offering/sacrifice according to the statues given by God brought salvation.

Romans 12:1-2
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Again I say that the new covenant revolves around sacrifice, same as the old. The new is better than the old.

just-me · Aug 25, 2014

psychomom said:

The reason I called it that way is because Jesus is also created the old covenant. In truth we can also say the "Old Covenant of Jesus Christ."

Colossians 1:12-19
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created , that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist .
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence .
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell ;

just-me · Aug 25, 2014

p_rehbein said:

So very much wrong here............sigh...........

Now there are many professing Christians who will say that the covenant of the Old Testament is obsolete and void because Israel didn't live up to the requirements and statutes of God. They will never say that God was guilty of breaking covenant, even though they say that the covenant is disannulled and obsolete.

Why say something that isn't true? God did not "break" the Covenant, He FULFILLED the Covenant............the unbelieving Jews broke the Covenant, not God.

Yes, we do say it has waxed old........because the Bible says so........goodness........

As for the rest of your OP, it is fairly clear you have no concept of Law vs. Grace concerning the First and New Covenants.

Jesus FULFILLED THE LAW! JESUS FULFILLED THE FIRST COVENANT...........and He gave rise to the NEW COVENANT, GRACE.

It isn't brain surgery.............goodness........just read your Bible

I'm not addressing "law versus grace." as I have said in post #12, the OP doesn't mention the law.

just-me · Aug 25, 2014

correction from post #13 "is" is not supposed to be there. LOL

just-me said:

The reason I called it that way is because Jesus also created the old covenant. In truth we can also say the "Old Covenant of Jesus Christ."

chubbena · Aug 25, 2014

KJV1611 said:

here we go again....how many people in the new testament will be saved by speaking against the law?

achduke · Aug 25, 2014

Was God not already telling us his plan to take Adultress Israel back one day if she stops sinning?

Hosea 3:1-5
1The Lord said to me, “Go, show your love to your wife again, though she is loved by another man and is an adulteress. Love her as the Lord loves the Israelites, though they turn to other gods and love the sacred raisin cakes.”
2So I bought her for fifteen shekels[SUP]a[/SUP] of silver and about a homer and a lethek[SUP]b[/SUP] of barley. 3Then I told her, “You are to live with me many days; you must not be a prostitute or be intimate with any man, and I will behave the same way toward you.”
4For the Israelites will live many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred stones, without ephod or household gods. 5Afterward the Israelites will return and seek the Lord their God and David their king. They will come trembling to the Lord and to his blessings in the last days.

Is the Old Covenant really gone? God already tells Israel that if they do not Obey him they will be cursed and dispersed among the nations and when they obey him with all their heart he will restore them and bring them back. This was promised under the Old Covenant and sounds like a unilateral contract. If Israel does not obey God will curse them but once they Obey they will be restored. Even though Israel agreed to the contract God still dictates the terms.

Deuteronomy 30:1-5
1When all these blessings and curses I have set before you come on you and you take them to heart wherever the Lord your God disperses you among the nations, 2and when you and your children return to the Lord your God and obey him with all your heart and with all your soul according to everything I command you today, 3then the Lord your God will restore your fortunes[SUP]a[/SUP] and have compassion on you and gather you again from all the nations where he scattered you. 4Even if you have been banished to the most distant land under the heavens, from there the Lord your God will gather you and bring you back.

BradC · Aug 25, 2014

The old covenant was strictly for the flesh to keep and to conform to, but the new covenant was for our human spirit to be enlightened by the word through the Holy Spirit for us to believe and trust and walk in by faith. Think on this one... We are not to know one another after the flesh, not even Christ, though he was born under the law, was perfect and never sinned in His flesh...

2 Cor 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

Christ had to make the old covenant old because of the flesh and He did so when He crucified the flesh with all of its desires, lusts, affections and appetites. No longer did Christ require that we be under the obligation of law of the old covenant through the flesh. The new wine of the new covenant is not to be put in the old stretched out skins that have been used up and made inoperative and obsolete. We are also told to not patch up an old garment with a new piece of cloth, because to do so you would have to tear the new and it would not match or agree with the old.

Jesus came in the flesh, like unto sinful man, to condemn sin in His own flesh by going to the cross and crucifying the flesh and putting away the sin that was condemned under the law of the old covenant. He died and buried all of it and on the third day He was raised from among the dead without sin or with the same flesh that bore our sins upon His body. No longer would the disciples, when they laid their eyes upon Him, be able to know Him after the flesh because He had a new resurrected body of flesh and with that new resurrected body He ascended up to the right hand of the Father.

When we believe upon Christ and the finished work of the cross we are made new creatures in Christ and are born anew from above. We still have the same fleshly body of sin and death but we not only have been crucified with Christ but have been raised together with Him. The old covenant was based upon the old flesh conforming to the law of that covenant and those who lived under it knew one another after the flesh, good or bad, right or wrong, and they were revealed according to how they were able to conform their flesh to the dictates of the law of the old covenant. This old system of conformity had to be put away and made obsolete because Christ had come and He came to give them a new life through Him and through a new covenant that He would establish with those who would believe.

No longer would we have to know Christ after the flesh when He was under the law of the old covenant as a man, but now we know Him no more after the flesh but after the Spirit that He has given unto us through the new covenant which crucified the flesh and raised Him from the dead. When Jesus was teaching this to His disciples (before the cross), they were under the law, but they were taught to have this new expectation that was going to come unto them who believed upon Him after He was raised from the dead and ascended unto the Father. It took three years to be able to convince them in their heart of the purpose for which He came and how He would be able to raise up the temple in just three days.

After the resurrection there was no more obligation of the flesh to conform to the dictates of the glory of the law of the old covenant, for the old man of the flesh (the first Adam) was crucified and buried. The Spirit through the cross has rent the veil from top to bottom and now takes the place of the law that was weak through the flesh. We now have access as believer/priests to the holy of holies by faith through the Holy Spirit because the blood that was shed has been placed upon the mercy seat by the eternal Spirit. The purpose of the law has now been made obsolete, inoperative and has vanished away by being superceded and excelled by the glory of another, the ministration of the Spirit. No one can tear a patch of the new covenant and apply it to the old garment to make up for the what the law could not do through the weakness of the flesh, nor can you put new wine in old stretched out wineskins (bottles) less they burst, spill out and perish.

chubbena · Aug 25, 2014

The old covenant was for the Israel nation.
The new covenant was for the Israel nation also.
The letter to the Hebrews was for the Hebrews i.e. the Israel nation about two thousand years ago.
The letter to the Galatians was for the Galatians about two thousand years ago.
The letter to the Romans was for the Romans about two thousand years ago.
The letter to.....guess you've got the idea. None of them are relevant.
Not to mention the letter kills but the Spirit gives life.
Can we just discuss without quoting anything from this 2000 year old bible?

Elin · Aug 25, 2014

chubbena said:

The old covenant was for the Israel nation.
The new covenant was for the Israel nation also.
The letter to the Hebrews was for the Hebrews i.e. the Israel nation about two thousand years ago.
The letter to the Galatians was for the Galatians about two thousand years ago.
The letter to the Romans was for the Romans about two thousand years ago.
The letter to.....guess you've got the idea. None of them are relevant.
Not to mention the letter kills but the Spirit gives life.
Can we just discuss without quoting anything from this 2000 year old bible?

That explains a lot!

What we have here is unbelief.

Q.E.D.

The new covenant with Christ Jesus

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