Does the Believer go to heaven when they die?

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iwant2serve

iwant2serve

Senior Member
#1
Apr 12, 2009
513
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28
#1
There are two vies out there. One says you go stright to heaven the other is called soul sleep. People use the scripture on Lazarath and the rich man as a true story becuse Jesus uses a name which he didn't in other parables. The passage that Paul says to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord is another. 2 Cor 5:8 and Lukr 16:19-31 also the thief on the cross Luke 23:43

The other side says you sleep in the grave until Christ comes using 1Cor 15:51-54 we shall not all sleep but we shall all be changed. 2cor 5:1-8 saying the passage is not about going to heaven right away but the two different bodies, also 1 thes 4:15-18

Before you reply with what you believe take time to read the scriptures in context. I am writing this because it seems to me that we do not go to heaven right after death.

If you have more scriptures to support view please post them or stay on the ones given.
 
V

Vernon

Banned
#2
Jan 6, 2014
991
27
0
#2
My simple reply is: I do not know. Just as we had nothing to do with our birth so also we do not know what happens after death. Because of this reality we realize as believers that it is all in the hands of God (thank God), and so we place our complete faith, hope and love in his being, without which none would be saved.

Christ be with you always.
 
B

biscuit

Guest
#3
#3
Their souls do and the physical bodies will join them later via the rapture.

"To be absent from the body to be present with the Lord" (II Corinthians 5:8)

Thessalonians 4:13-18
 
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Radius

Radius

Senior Member
#4
Feb 11, 2013
1,138
180
63
#4
biscuit said:
Their souls do and the physical bodies will join them later via the rapture.

"To be absent from the body to be present with the Lord" (II Corinthians 5:8)

Thessalonians 4:13-18
Click to expand...
this is what I believe also. For the people that says the soul sleeps in the dead body/grave, that's very easy to picture when you view a dead body--indeed, the body appears asleep. But the body turn to dust and what's left is a skeleton. There's no soul in that ribcage of the skeleton...there's nothing, just bones, the real you, your soul is in heaven and was ever since you died.

Even Jesus said, "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit" upon death. Commend means to deliver, give over etc.
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#5
#5
I don't at all believe, in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, that our Lord Jesus would have used an example that would be a completely erroneous picture of life after death, which would be misleading, which would lead to doctrinal error. The Lord Jesus was and is God, his teachings of great precision as to accuracy and truth, often truth to many levels in parables, of a supernatural, genius mind, of God's mind. There is no, "Whoops! Sorry. Bad example."

Paul's clear, inspired statement that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord speaks for itself, and 1 Corinthians 15:51 is a revelation of the rapture, the first resurrection, where, naturally, the living Christians at that time will not have died, this nothing to do with a doctrinal statement of the individual Christians' spirits dispositions outside the flesh, and notice how the word sleep is even preferred to the word death for Christians, since Christ actually conquered death for all of us. There are the spirits of the slain saints in Revelation, crying out loudly for justice of the Lord in Revelation 6:10, quite alive and vocal, not comatosed in a grave outside their flesh. This also lends meaning to John 11:25-26, Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

And Philippians 1:22-23 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you. Paul speaks of a better state and preference for his time, personally, to die and be with the Lord, again speaks of being in a much better state for the presence of Christ outside the flesh, very plainly eager to be in the presence of God, not speaking of going on to be dead and dumb, for who knows how long, almost 2,000 years now. Paul never said for the believer to be absent from the body is to be truly absent in the blackness of a coma! The teaching of the whole gospel is very clear on life after death in the spirit, that consciousness lives on.
 
peacefulbeliever

peacefulbeliever

Senior Member
#6
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
199
63
#6
iwant2serve said:
There are two vies out there. One says you go stright to heaven the other is called soul sleep. People use the scripture on Lazarath and the rich man as a true story becuse Jesus uses a name which he didn't in other parables. The passage that Paul says to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord is another. 2 Cor 5:8 and Lukr 16:19-31 also the thief on the cross Luke 23:43

The other side says you sleep in the grave until Christ comes using 1Cor 15:51-54 we shall not all sleep but we shall all be changed. 2cor 5:1-8 saying the passage is not about going to heaven right away but the two different bodies, also 1 thes 4:15-18

Before you reply with what you believe take time to read the scriptures in context. I am writing this because it seems to me that we do not go to heaven right after death.

If you have more scriptures to support view please post them or stay on the ones given.
Click to expand...
Hi iwant2serve - God bless!

I am on the side that believes you 'sleep' until Christ returns. I don't call it 'soul sleep' - just 'sleep'. God uses the metaphor 'sleep' when he speaks of death. God told Moses - And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers. . . Deut. 31:16

When we sleep we do not realize what is going on - But he who is joined with all the living has hope, for a living dog is better than a dead lion. For the living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them (the dead person's memory) is forgotten. Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished; and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun. . . . 10) Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work, or thought or knowledge or wisdom, in Sheol (the grave), to which you are going. Ecc. 9:5,6,10 (ESV) - But life begins again when we wake up - as it will when Christ returns and we are raised. Our body returns to dust and our spirit - the spiritual life force that God put in us returns to God.

Job 14:12-14 ESV so a man lies down and rises not again; till the heavens are no more he will not awake or be roused out of his sleep. Oh that you would hide me in Sheol (the grave, the state of death), that you would conceal me until your wrath be past, that you would appoint me a set time, and remember me! If a man dies, shall he live again? All the days of my service I would wait till my renewal should come. When a person dies he 'lies down' in death and does not rise out of that sleep until his 'renewal' at the gathering together or the resurrection.

People who die are not in the presence of God because while dead they do not remember or praise God - For in death there is no remembrance of you; in Sheol who will give you praise? Ps 6:5 (ESV)
What profit is there in my death, if I go down to the pit? Will the dust praise you? Will it tell of your faithfulness?
Ps. 30:9 (ESV)
But God shall ransom my soul from the power of Sheol, for he will receive me. Selah. Ps. 49:15
The dead do not praise the LORD nor do any who go down into silence. Ps. 115:17 (ESV)
Your dead shall live; their bodies shall rise. You who dwell in the dust, awake and sing for joy! For your dew is a dew of light, and the earth will give birth to the dead. Isaiah 26:19 (ESV)

John 3:13 (ESV) No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.
Acts 2:29-32 and 34 (ESV) Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. Being therefore a prophet . . .he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades (the grave), nor did his flesh see corruption. This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. . . . . 34) For David did not ascend into the heavens . . . .

In the record of Lazarus, Martha clearly believed her brother was dead, and would only live again 'in the resurrection'. If we do go straight to heaven when we die - Lazarus was pretty upset to be brought back since he had already been dead 4 days! Jesus is gone to prepare a place for us and he will come again and will take us to himself so that where he is there we will be also.

2 Cor. 5:8 - context being clothed in our earthly tabernacle or heavenly - IOW - resurrection - Paul was more willing to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord - notice the wording - "willing rather" to be absent from the body and present with the Lord - WE ALL WOULD RATHER BE ABSENT FROM THE BODY AND PRESENT WITH THE LORD!!!

Sorry I got a little long winded!!!
 
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iwant2serve

iwant2serve

Senior Member
#7
Apr 12, 2009
513
28
28
#7
The Scripture used in 2cor 5:8 is being used again without the support of the whole passage. Read from verse 1 through. Also it is recorded that we shall not all sleep but we shall be changed. I have not see a scripture where it tells that the soul meets back up with the resurrected body.
 
peacefulbeliever

peacefulbeliever

Senior Member
#8
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
199
63
#8
Radius said:
this is what I believe also. For the people that says the soul sleeps in the dead body/grave, that's very easy to picture when you view a dead body--indeed, the body appears asleep. But the body turn to dust and what's left is a skeleton. There's no soul in that ribcage of the skeleton...there's nothing, just bones, the real you, your soul is in heaven and was ever since you died.

Even Jesus said, "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit" upon death. Commend means to deliver, give over etc.
Click to expand...
Jesus did ascend into heaven - he is the firstfruits of the dead. God would not leave him in the grave to see corruption.

Ps. 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell (the grave); neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (prophecy)
Acts 2:24,25a,27 Whom God has raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. For David speaketh concerning him (Jesus) . . . . .Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell (the grave), neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (prophecy fulfilled)
 
B

biscuit

Guest
#9
#9
iwant2serve said:
The Scripture used in 2cor 5:8 is being used again without the support of the whole passage. Read from verse 1 through. Also it is recorded that we shall not all sleep but we shall be changed. I have not see a scripture where it tells that the soul meets back up with the resurrected body.
Click to expand...
Your questions were answered but you just didn't recognize them. If you truly understand bible verses you would have known.

I will give you a link that will really simplified your question(s) for you. If the link doesn't work for you then ... Good Luck.

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[TD="width: 88%, align: left"]Bible Question: I understand that Christians will receive their resurrection bodies at the rapture. Does this include the Old Testament saints? For unbelievers, is it after the 1,000 year kingdom? At what point in time will believers who die during the seven year Tribulation be resurrected?
Bible Answer: When we die, our souls depart for either heaven or hell, and our bodies remain here. When Christians die, they meet the Lord here, in heaven, or in the rapture.
. . . we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord. (NASB) 2 Cor. 5:8
When we speak of resurrection, we are referring to the body's returning to life on some future day. When the body does return to life, it will be immortal.
For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality . . . (NASB) 1 Cor. 15:53-54
There are four major resurrections in the scriptures. Two of them occur before the Tribulation and two occur after.
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Before The Tribulation. The first major resurrection has already occurred. It occurred just after Jesus' death. The Apostle Matthew tells us that many of the Old Testament saints were resurrected and walked around Jerusalem.
. . . and the tombs were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many. (NASB) Matt. 27:52-53
I can just imagine how the people in Jerusalem reacted. Many must have finally understood who Jesus was when they saw their dead relatives, or maybe their once notable citizens, walking around.
The next major resurrection will be the rapture. At that time those believers in Jesus who had previously died will have their bodies resurrected and united with their spirits in heaven (1 Thess 4:14-16). Their dead bodies will return to life and be transformed into an immortal body. These immortal bodies will be perfect (1 Cor. 15:51-52). 2 Co. 5:1-4 helps us understand that there will be a time delay before we receive our resurrection bodies.
For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven . . . For indeed while we are in this tent, we groan, being burdened, because we do not want to be unclothed, but to be clothed, in order that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. (NASB) 2 Cor. 5:1-4
When Paul says that he does not want to be unclothed, he appears to be referring to the time that his spirit will not have a body. At the rapture all of remaining the Old and New Testament saints who died will also be resurrected. The prophet Daniel predicted that this would occur when he said the following,
And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued. And many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. (NASB) Dan. 12:1-2
Daniel predicted that the Old Testament saints would be resurrected at a time of great distress.
After The Tribulation. At the end of the Tribulation, Jesus Christ will return with those who have been resurrected and the souls of all the saints whose bodies were not resurrected (Rev. 19:11-15). After He defeats the armies of the Anti-Christ (Rev. 19:19-21), Jesus then resurrects all of the bodies of those Christians who died during the Tribulation. Revelation 20:4 includes the Tribulation saints.
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. (NASB) Rev. 20:4
The final resurrection is for the non-Christians. These men and women will unfortunately go to the Lake of Fire. There they will suffer forever.
Conclusion:When will the Old Testament saints be resurrected? The answer is actually given in the Old Testament in Daniel 12:1-2. These saints receive their bodies after the Tribulation is over. it is important to remember that these souls are already in heaven enjoying God. What a great joy it will be to be with God!






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J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#10
#10
Many people have a problem recognizing that the situation changed with the advent of Jesus Christ, the veil of the temple rent at His death on the cross, meaning a never before, new covenant, where all men now have direct access to God, the Holy of Holies, via the work of Christ and faith in Him, the people resurrecting and seen in Jerusalem at that same time you mention, these things not even the disciples of Christ, much less Old Testament prophets, could much contemplate: God did not plainly reveal a lot, until Christ. And one can't take old, limited understandings of what was finally revealed in Christ, the old covenant of the law, to be the same as the new covenant in Christ, for instance, should not equate the Old Testament rules as those that were brought forth by the work of the Lord Jesus Christ. None of Christ's work had yet even happened in the Old Testament, so one can't say some verse in the Old Testament could possibly contemplate the end of the era of law and beginning of grace by the atonement or the resurrections, much contemplate the nature of eternal life, these things very vague or even most thinly present in the Old Testament. It's always folly to use the old covenant of the Old Testament to try and invalidate what are further revelations, teachings, of the New Testament, much of which had not even yet been revealed in the Old Testament! It's a bit like going back to a manual for a horse-drawn carriage, and stating a gasoline engine with no horse can't exist in that new carriage manual.
 
B

BibleEd

Guest
#11
#11
Hey!

an excellent question. Lazarus is an excellent example of the power of resurrection. As in the times when God created mankind, he intended that we live peacefully on this earth. Even though Adam caused us to lose this, Gods purpose however does not change.

Millions long for life in heaven. Jesus said that his faithful apostles would live there. Before he died, he promised to prepare a place for them with his heavenly Father.—Read John 14:2.


Why will people from earth be resurrected to life in heaven? What will they do there? Jesus told his apostles that they would be kings. They will rule over the earth.—Read Luke 22:28-30; Revelation 5:10.


Do all good people go to heaven?
In most lands, only a few people are rulers. Since Jesus resurrects people to heavenly life so that they can rule over the earth, we would expect those chosen to be few. (Luke 12:32) The Bible says exactly how many will rule with Jesus.—Read Revelation 14:1.


Jesus has prepared places in heaven for some of his followers. Do you know what they will do there?
Those going to heaven will not be the only ones rewarded. Faithful subjects of Jesus’ Kingdom will enjoy life without end in a restored paradise on earth. (John 3:16) Some will enter Paradise by surviving the destruction of the present wicked system of things. Others will enter by resurrection.—Read Psalm 37:29; John 5:28, 29.
 
D

directline2iam

Banned
#12
Jul 25, 2013
1,329
19
0
#12
peacefulbeliever said:
Hi iwant2serve - God bless!

I am on the side that believes you 'sleep' until Christ returns. I don't call it 'soul sleep' - just 'sleep'. God uses the metaphor 'sleep' when he speaks of death. God told Moses - And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers. . . Deut. 31:16

When we sleep we do not realize what is going on - But he who is joined with all the living has hope, for a living dog is better than a dead lion. For the living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them (the dead person's memory) is forgotten. Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished; and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun. . . . 10) Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work, or thought or knowledge or wisdom, in Sheol (the grave), to which you are going. Ecc. 9:5,6,10 (ESV) - But life begins again when we wake up - as it will when Christ returns and we are raised. Our body returns to dust and our spirit - the spiritual life force that God put in us returns to God.

Job 14:12-14 ESV so a man lies down and rises not again; till the heavens are no more he will not awake or be roused out of his sleep. Oh that you would hide me in Sheol (the grave, the state of death), that you would conceal me until your wrath be past, that you would appoint me a set time, and remember me! If a man dies, shall he live again? All the days of my service I would wait till my renewal should come. When a person dies he 'lies down' in death and does not rise out of that sleep until his 'renewal' at the gathering together or the resurrection.

People who die are not in the presence of God because while dead they do not remember or praise God - For in death there is no remembrance of you; in Sheol who will give you praise? Ps 6:5 (ESV)
What profit is there in my death, if I go down to the pit? Will the dust praise you? Will it tell of your faithfulness?
Ps. 30:9 (ESV)
But God shall ransom my soul from the power of Sheol, for he will receive me. Selah. Ps. 49:15
The dead do not praise the LORD nor do any who go down into silence. Ps. 115:17 (ESV)
Your dead shall live; their bodies shall rise. You who dwell in the dust, awake and sing for joy! For your dew is a dew of light, and the earth will give birth to the dead. Isaiah 26:19 (ESV)

John 3:13 (ESV) No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.
Acts 2:29-32 and 34 (ESV) Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. Being therefore a prophet . . .he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades (the grave), nor did his flesh see corruption. This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. . . . . 34) For David did not ascend into the heavens . . . .

In the record of Lazarus, Martha clearly believed her brother was dead, and would only live again 'in the resurrection'. If we do go straight to heaven when we die - Lazarus was pretty upset to be brought back since he had already been dead 4 days! Jesus is gone to prepare a place for us and he will come again and will take us to himself so that where he is there we will be also.

2 Cor. 5:8 - context being clothed in our earthly tabernacle or heavenly - IOW - resurrection - Paul was more willing to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord - notice the wording - "willing rather" to be absent from the body and present with the Lord - WE ALL WOULD RATHER BE ABSENT FROM THE BODY AND PRESENT WITH THE LORD!!!

Sorry I got a little long winded!!!
Click to expand...
Ya, and there was no transfiguration in the presence of Moses and Elijah right because they were in sheol and couldn't communicate with Jesus. And I guess God is the God of the dead and not the living, Abe Is and Jacob?
 
J

jb

Senior Member
#13
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
588
113
#13
iwant2serve said:
There are two vies out there. One says you go stright to heaven the other is called soul sleep. People use the scripture on Lazarath and the rich man as a true story becuse Jesus uses a name which he didn't in other parables. The passage that Paul says to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord is another. 2 Cor 5:8 and Lukr 16:19-31 also the thief on the cross Luke 23:43

The other side says you sleep in the grave until Christ comes using 1Cor 15:51-54 we shall not all sleep but we shall all be changed. 2cor 5:1-8 saying the passage is not about going to heaven right away but the two different bodies, also 1 thes 4:15-18

Before you reply with what you believe take time to read the scriptures in context. I am writing this because it seems to me that we do not go to heaven right after death.

If you have more scriptures to support view please post them or stay on the ones given.
Click to expand...
You can find a bit of a study Here on the issues of death and judgement...

Yahweh Shalom
 
iwant2serve

iwant2serve

Senior Member
#14
Apr 12, 2009
513
28
28
#14
Vernon said:
My simple reply is: I do not know. Just as we had nothing to do with our birth so also we do not know what happens after death. Because of this reality we realize as believers that it is all in the hands of God (thank God), and so we place our complete faith, hope and love in his being, without which none would be saved.

Christ be with you always.
Click to expand...
That is a very honest answer, thank you.
 
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