Prophets, Prophecy, and the Prophetic

[Allin]

This thread is to discuss in light of the Bible and primarily the testimony of Jesus which is the spirit of prophecy (Rev. 19:10) what the Bible tells us about prophets, prophecy, and the prophetic for yesterday, today, and forever. This topic is so vast that it naturally requires several different authors and many books on it, therefore, I want to cover the basics and foundations of this in this thread.

"The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy" (NKJV) or "It is the Spirit of prophecy who bears testimony to Jesus" (NIV). (Rev. 19:10.)

The above passage says that Jesus' testimony (life, work, being) is the spirit of prophecy. This immediately tells us that in order to understand the rest of the Bible (NT and OT), we must necessarily look at the life of Jesus Christ (while He was here on earth). But after it has been defined as foretelling, foreknowledge, comfort, exhortation, what really is prophecy? Prophecy in the Bible is God speaking forth; if He speaks forth a message of comfort, warning, judgment, or love, it all is prophecy, because it is God speaking.

Because the life or essence of Jesus is prophecy, Christians (those who are in Christ) are all called to be a prophetic people as surely as we are called to be kings (overcomers and heavenly delegates with authority and power) and priests (ministers to God and intercessors for others):

"'It will come to pass in the last days,' says God, 'that I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; your sons and your daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour our My Spirit in those days; and they will prophesy'" (Acts 2:17-18).

Note: we have been in the last days since Pentecost. In that passage, God said that everyone (who is in Christ) will prophesy and lists some of the outworking qualities of a prophetic spirit: dreams, visions, and prophesying or 'speaking forth God's Word now' (rhema, in-the-moment words of God, not pulpit preaching).

There is a lot of confusion and abuse when it comes to the topic of prophets, prophecy, and the prophetic; but the Bible makes it clear that God is not the author of confusion but of peace (1Cor. 14:33). When we understand what the Bible says, what Jesus shows/teaches, and what God is saying, we have peace and security rather than confusion and endless questions. It's past time for Christians to be established in the truth and in Jesus Christ rather than at the mercy of winds of doctrines true and false. We are to be established on Jesus Christ Himself, not on the doctrines of the Bible. (I can provide a definition and distinction between those two for anyone who wants to know the difference and how each one affects the lives of Christians and others.) Jesus is first the Word of God, and the Bible bears witness to Him along with the Holy Spirit who reveals Jesus to us as Jesus revealed the Father to the apostles. This is a very broad issue, and I'm willing to take questions on what the Bible says and Jesus shows/teaches about prophets, prophecy, and the prophetic as they were yesterday and are today and will be forever.

 

[Allin]

I also want to, on this thread, talk about 'prophetic gifts' such as the word of wisdom, word of knowledge, and distinguishing between spirits; I want to trace out how they differ from one another, their indispensability among Christians (they are not meant to be optional just as the baptism of the Holy Spirit is not supposed to be optional), and how they are to operate among any body of believers. These particular gifts, which today are often either overly exaggerated or under-utilized, provide real-time and applicable answers and solutions in both spiritual and practical everyday life.

God never intended for life to be difficult or confusing, and He does not want Christians walking around in the dark or leaning on useless cliches in regard to questions about suffering, justice, etc. Jesus said categorically and indisputably, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows Me will not walk in darkness but will have the light of life" and "I have come as a light into the world so that everyone who believes in Me will not remain in darkness" (Jn. 8:12, 12:46). This means that confusion and unknowing are not where Christians are supposed to dwell.

The Bible says that God has provided us with everything we need for both spiritual and natural life, for both the spiritual and the practical. Many of these provisions are hidden away in the workings of the spiritual gifts. Peter said, "His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness... that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature" (2Pet. 2:3-4).

 

[SolidGround]

I have found that many on CC lean towards cessationism (the ceasing of sign-gifts).
It is easy to show the promises of continued gifts in Scripture, but more difficult to give a modern example of these gifts.

If you search for "prophet" or "prophecy" on YouTube, I have yet to find one from God.

This is the heart of the issue.

With so many more examples of false prophets and fake healers,
people have begun to doubt that God has given this power to the Saints at all.

I have heard it said:
"How do you know a false prophet? If they give a prophecy, then they are a false prophet.
How do you know if a miracle worker is a fake? If they do what appear to be miracles, then they are a fake."
Where does this attitude come from?
Certainly not from the Word.

 

[SolidGround]

If we have the testimony of Christ within us,
then we have been given the Spirit,
and if we have the Spirit of Christ,
then we have received the spirit of prophecy.

With this comes the revealing of God's Word to us,
and the ability to reveal it to others.

 

[hishealingred]

I have found that many on CC lean towards cessationism (the ceasing of sign-gifts).
It is easy to show the promises of continued gifts in Scripture, but more difficult to give a modern example of these gifts.

If you search for "prophet" or "prophecy" on YouTube, I have yet to find one from God.

This is the heart of the issue.

With so many more examples of false prophets and fake healers,
people have begun to doubt that God has given this power to the Saints at all.

I have heard it said:
"How do you know a false prophet? If they give a prophecy, then they are a false prophet.
How do you know if a miracle worker is a fake? If they do what appear to be miracles, then they are a fake."
Where does this attitude come from?
Certainly not from the Word.

They do not have discernment (or just don't like what is said):

"9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the Lord:
10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:
11 Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.
12 Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon:
13 Therefore this iniquity shall be to you as a breach ready to fall, swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant." Isaiah 30:9-13

"And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." 2 Timothy 4:4

"For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear withtheir ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them." Matthew 13:15

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;" 2 Timothy 4:3

"Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not." James 4:2

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!" Luke 13:34

"Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you." Matthew 5:12

"But they mocked the messengers of God, and despised his words, and misused his prophets, until the wrath of the LORD arose against his people, till there was no remedy." 2 Chronicles 36:16

"Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:" Acts 7:52

"Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:" 1 Thessalonians 2:15

We all need discernment:

"My son, let not them depart from thine eyes: keep sound wisdom and discretion:" Proverbs 3:21

"But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil." Hebrew 5:14

"9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;
10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ." Philippians 1:9-10

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." 1 John 4:1

"12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." Hebrews 4:12

And give glory to Jesus Christ:

"Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus." 2 Timothy 1:13

"For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith." Romans 12:3

"If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.:" 1 Peter 4:11

"Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do everything for the glory of God. " 1 Corinthians 10:31

"And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen." Revelation 1:6

"For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ." 2 Corinthians 2:17

"Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.​" 1 Peter 2:12

 

[Dan58]

In Acts 2:17, "shall prophesy" just means to speak under inspiration, to teach and preach, or explain what's already been prophesied. I don't believe its a reference to modern day 'prophets' bringing new revelation, but rather a better explanation and understanding of what's already been foretold. Consider that Christ has already foretold us of all things (Mark 13;23), through the end times, tribulation, millennium, and beyond. So what's left to prophesy about?

In the last days, prophesies can be better understood by those experiencing the end times. Daniel for instance, said that he didn't even understand his vision (Daniel 8;27), but today we can better cipher what he wrote. The world is blind to what's written and don't recognize the signs of the time (don't care), but those with eyes to see know to watch for all these things yet to transpire. jmo

 

[jb]

You can find a study Here on the gifts of the Holy Spirit (inluding the gift of prophecy) and Here on the ministeries (including that of a prophet) that God has set in the Church...

Yahweh Shalom

 

[oldthennew]

Dan58,

you are so right, there is nothing new under the sun and Christ
has foretold all through Himself, the prophets and apostles.

but, our species, mankind in general, has an inward need
for the principles of God to be repeated over and over and over,
and have tendencies to want to 'replace' the principles and prophecies
of God, over and over and over.

upon self-reflection, we can understand why our Father is so repetitive,
'knuckle-head' comes to mind.

scripture tells us that there will surely be many 'false-prophets', in
these self-evident last times, so that leaves us with the work
to discern the wheat from the tares.

 

[SolidGround]

Hear the word of the Lord concerning
you and your family.


Every blessing that you and your family take for granted and do not use to bless the name of the Lord, it shall be taken from you and them.


A space of time has been granted to you and and your family, to repent and take the blessings of the Lord, that have been given to you and them to bless the name of the Lord, that you do not use to bless the name of the Lord. To take them and bless the name of the Lord.


And when that space of time, that you and your family have been granted, has ended, if you and your family have not repented and taken all of these blessings of the Lord that the Lord has given to you and your family, to bless the name of the Lord, and blessed the name of the Lord with all of them. They will be taken from you and your family and given to another who will
bring forth the fruit of righteousness.


If you and your family do repent and do take the blessings of the Lord that He has given to you to bless the name of the Lord, and do bless the name of the Lord with them, as long as you continue to do so, they shall not depart from you. But if you return to your old ways and leave off from using the blessings of the Lord, to bless the name of the Lord, they shall depart from
you and your family, and be given to another to bring
forth the fruit of righteousness.


It is written....


the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away;
blessed be the name of the LORD.


It is written....


And whatsoever ye do in word or deed,
do all in the name of the Lord Jesus,
giving thanks to God and the Father by him.


It is written....


Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents. For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

Anyone feel like taking this one for a test

 

[achduke]

Dan58,

you are so right, there is nothing new under the sun and Christ
has foretold all through Himself, the prophets and apostles.

but, our species, mankind in general, has an inward need
for the principles of God to be repeated over and over and over,
and have tendencies to want to 'replace' the principles and prophecies
of God, over and over and over.

upon self-reflection, we can understand why our Father is so repetitive,
'knuckle-head' comes to mind.

scripture tells us that there will surely be many 'false-prophets', in
these self-evident last times, so that leaves us with the work
to discern the wheat from the tares.

Since Ecclesiastes 1:9-11 is from the OT does this mean the NT does not exist?

Ecclesiastes 1:9-11
9What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.

10Is there anything of which one can say,
“Look! This is something new”?
It was here already, long ago;
it was here before our time.
11No one remembers the former generations,
and even those yet to come
will not be remembered
by those who follow them.

 

[oldthennew]

the Principles in the OT and the NT are eternal.

like it is written,
the Law is Spiritual but I am carnal, sold under sin.'

"the OT is the NT, concealed -
and the NT is the OT, revealed."

 

[achduke]

"the OT is the NT, concealed -
and the NT is the OT, revealed."

Where is the scripture for this quote?

Thank you,

 

[jb]

Anyone feel like taking this one for a test

"Harry" sent me this "prophecy" in a PM a few hours ago, is that how you received it? lol

 

[Ugly]

"Harry" sent me this "prophecy" in a PM a few hours ago, is that how you received it? lol

I got one from 'harry' too. But reading his posts, and since i reported them, i don't think he'll be around long.

 

[jb]

I got one from 'harry' too. But reading his posts, and since i reported them, i don't think he'll be around long.

LOL! A blanket "prophecy" for some of CC members then.

I just sent a blunt reply and then deleted it...

 

[oldthennew]

Where is the scripture for this quote?

Thank you,[/QUOTE
=========================================
archduke,

this is a "QUOTE" from Augustine.
not that we agree with all of his theology,
but this particular quote stuck in our mind.

we have certainly found this quote to be true,
through the study of the Scriptures.

GB

 

[JesusIsAll]

If you search for "prophet" or "prophecy" on YouTube, I have yet to find one from God.

Precisely. Not a one, and contradictory prophecies, as if God said one thing to this person, another thing to that person. Also failed prophecy after failed prophecy in time, not a one coming to pass. People actually writing prophecies from Jesus Christ in the first person, Catholics from Mary in the first person, claiming they spoke the words to them, usually in terrible English of a bad writer, with regional characteristics. (Quotes from the Lord that are semi-literate?)

As for me, I don't need anything more than the Bible. I don't understand all Bible prophecy to date, and never will in this life, so there's still yet more to study in God's reliable, truly inspired scripture.

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Matthew 7:15

And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 2 Corinthians 11:14

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 2 Timothy 4:3-4

For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 2 Peter 1:16

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. 2 Peter 2:1-3

No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. Matthew 6:24

If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: for he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. 2 John 1:10-11

He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD. Proverbs 17:15

And her prophets have smeared whitewash for them, seeing false visions and divining lies for them, saying, “Thus says the Lord GOD,” when the LORD has not spoken. Ezekiel 22:28

And the Lord said to me, “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I did not send them, nor did I command them or speak to them. They are prophesying to you a lying vision, worthless divination, and the deceit of their own minds.” Jeremiah 14:14

I did not send the prophets, yet they ran; I did not speak to them, yet they prophesied. Jeremiah 23:21

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Revelation 22:18-19

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all lairs, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. Revelation 22:14-15

 

[achduke]

Where is the scripture for this quote?

Thank you,[/QUOTE
=========================================
archduke,

this is a "QUOTE" from Augustine.
not that we agree with all of his theology,
but this particular quote stuck in our mind.

we have certainly found this quote to be true,
through the study of the Scriptures.

GB

Ok,

Thank you Just wondering why everyone quotes it and where it comes from.

 

[dcontroversal]

Anyone feel like taking this one for a test

I don't remember any YOU and YOUR family prophecies in the bible.....so line one does it for me........other than unto Abraham, Isaac and Jacob....maybe Ishmael and his outcome.....but his use is a little out there!

 

[Allin]

I have found that many on CC lean towards cessationism (the ceasing of sign-gifts).
It is easy to show the promises of continued gifts in Scripture, but more difficult to give a modern example of these gifts.

If you search for "prophet" or "prophecy" on YouTube, I have yet to find one from God.

This is the heart of the issue.

With so many more examples of false prophets and fake healers,
people have begun to doubt that God has given this power to the Saints at all.

I have heard it said:
"How do you know a false prophet? If they give a prophecy, then they are a false prophet.
How do you know if a miracle worker is a fake? If they do what appear to be miracles, then they are a fake."
Where does this attitude come from?
Certainly not from the Word.

That's why pride is rampant in many of the posts here: once you think you know better than God, you are left all by yourself. I would like for any of those people who say that the supernatural or manifestation of gifts of the Spirit is void for our day to discuss where they get their beliefs from in the Bible. People who believe those things tend to begin or end a defense of their argument by saying how they feel about it. That's because you cannot get the Bible to contradict itself.

People who think they are smart to disbelieve in the supernatural workings of God show their immense lack of intelligence when they refer to all the fake ministers and fake prophets to secure their position. It's like saying you don't use knives anymore, not even to cut a steak, because so many people have used them to hurt and kill people. There is no ounce of wisdom in those kinds of statements. The heart of the issue is deeper than false ministers and false prophets. It has more to do with the wisdom of man ("What I believe is the truth") vs. the wisdom of God ("Your Word is truth"-- Jn. 17:17). Disbelievers in the supernatural workings of God are inclined to react one of three ways when their beliefs are put to the test and disqualified by the testimony of the Scriptures: 1.) they attack the person who is presenting biblical evidence; 2.) they use the misuse and abuse of the gifts to support their argument; 3.) or they stubbornly take a stance which says, "Well, that's just what I believe. It's just my humble opinion." Humble? God gives Grace to the humble who are able to say, "Your Word is truth." But beliefs against spiritual gifts today are finally called into court, their claimants may be able to support these beliefs with 'a cloud of witnesses', but the Bible and the Holy Spirit will never be among their witnesses.

There is one particular gift among the nine named gifts in 1Cor. 12 that can easily disprove and dismantle any beliefs contrary to the Bible's testimony about the gifts and the supernatural being relevant and required now and today: the word of wisdom. Every time I read about this gift, I chuckle. While anyone can claim a true miracle or healing is of satan (this is where a Christian is falling or has fallen beyond salvation), can claim that tongues are fake, that prophecies are nonsense, that a word of knowledge or distinguishing between spirits is falsified claims, a word of wisdom is the answer to all doubts and all doubters. That is because of the way a word of wisdom works; it cannot be discredited. And though those who choose to disbelieve can do so, they will know in their hearts that the supernatural work of the word of wisdom is from God (and try as they may, they will never be able to make themselves believe that it did not come from God). That is one reason it is called "the word of wisdom" and why it is named first among the gifts (because it is the foremost or 'most important'). The gift alone by itself has the ability to accomplish what the rest of the eight gifts can accomplish; it is the wisdom of God which is greater than the wisdom (or pride, doubt, or unbelief) of man, and it is the indisputable answer for those who claim that spiritual gifts are not for today or no longer function today.