Jesus is the "Messenger of the Lord" in the Old Testament.

Jason0047 · Aug 30, 2014

Important Note so that there is no confusion:

Christ is the Eternal God who is the creator (John 1:1 KJV), uncreated, and second person of the Godhead (i.e. the Word) who was made flesh (John 1:14 KJV). For the Lord our God is one God who exists in three distinct persons (i.e. the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit) (1 John 5:7 KJV). Jesus Christ is God Almighty in the flesh and He is not a created angel. In the KJV: the word "angel" in reference to the title "Angel of the Lord" is actually translated as "Messenger" in the Hebrew. So the words as we would understand it today would say "Messenger of the Lord". So, no. Jesus is not an angel. It is merely a title or a name only! Anyways, I believe this "Messenger of the Lord" is a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus Christ (Who is God) in the Old Testament. Again, these pre-incarnate appearances are called "Theophanies" or "Christophanies".

Jesus (Who is the Eternal God) is the Messenger of the Lord in the OT:

It is quite astonishing to discover that Jesus Christ appears not only in the prophecies and typifications within the Old Testament but He also actually makes real pre-incarnate physical appearances in the Old Testament, as well. Many of these appearances are under the title of the "Angel of the Lord" in the KJV. Yet, we clearly know that Jesus is not a created angel or being but He is God Almighty Himself (or the second person in the Godhead).

Anyways, please take the time to look up the origin of the word "angel" at etymonline. While you are there, you will discover that it can also be defined as "messenger".

Online Etymology Dictionary

In other words, Jesus is the Messenger of the Lord in the Old Testament!

Now, where does our Lord Jesus appear as a messenger in the Old Testament?

1. The Story of Hagar -

Genesis 16:7-13

The angel of the LORD promised to do something that only God can do (see v.10). Hagar knew that it was the Lord who spoke to her (v. 13) and she identified the angel of the LORD as God: "Thou God seest me" (v.13).

Genesis 21:17-20

The angel of the Lord promised to do something only God can do (see v.18). This angel is identified as God (v.19).

2. The Story of Abraham & Sarah -

Genesis 18:1-33

Although the title of the "angel of the Lord" is not used here, it is clear within this chapter that is Jesus Christ. First, "the Lord appeared unto him (i.e. Abraham)" (v. 1) followed by the immediate appearance of three men (v. 2). Abraham and Sarah both call him Lord, as well (v. 3) (v. 12). The Lord also knew Sarah had laughed at God's promise when she was not present (v. 15).

3. The Story of Abraham & Isaac -

Genesis 22:15-18

The angel of the Lord is speaking (verses 15-16) and yet verse 16 makes it clear that it is God who is speaking ("saith the LORD")! In verses 17-18 the angel of the Lord promises to do what only God can do.

4. The Story of Jacob -

Genesis 31:11-13

The angel of God (v.11) identifies Himself as God: "I am the God of Bethel" (v.13).

Genesis 32:24-32

Jacob wrestles with a man who he later identifies the place with the name "Peniel", which means he had seen God face to face (v. 30).

5. The Story of Joseph -

Genesis 48:14-16

When Jacob was blessing Joseph and his sons he mentions :The Angel which redeemed me from all evil" (v. 16). Now, last time I checked, but angels do not redeem anyone. They are simply guardians.

6. The Story of Moses -

Exodus 3:2-7

The angel of the Lord appeared to Moses out of the midst of a burning bush and identified Himself as God (verses 4 and 6) and as Lord (verses 4 and 7). See also Acts 7:30-32 where the angel of the Lord is identified as the Lord God.

Exodus 14:19-21

The angel of God does what only God can do (verses 19-20) and is identified with the glorious manifestation of God in the pillar of the cloud (verses 19-20). In verse 21 this angel is identified as "the LORD".

Exodus 23:20-23

This passage makes it clear that the Lord’s angel is much more than a mere angel; this angel is closely identified with God: Lord’s "name is in Him" (v.21, "name" referring to Lord's nature and character) and God’s people must "obey His voice" (v.21). Indeed, He has the authority to "pardon your transgressions" or not to pardon them, and who can forgive sins but God alone? Notice that the angel is distinct from God and sent by God. The LORD said, "Behold, I send an angel before thee." We are reminded of New Testament parallels as the Son was distinct from the Father and sent by the Father (John 3:17; etc.) and yet equal to the Father (John 5:18) (John 10:30).

7. The Story of Balaam -

Numbers 22:20-35

Now in the story of Balaam, we begin with God speaking directly to Balaam, then a transition from God to "angel of the Lord" So guess who was standing before Balaam? None other than Jesus Christ. The "angel of the LORD" is used many times in verses 23-26, and verses 31-35 and the LORD in verses 28-31. Then continuing in Chapter 23 God meets Balaam in verse 4 and the LORD is mentioned in verses 5 and 16. These titles are being used interchangeably.

8. The Story of Joshua -

Joshua 5:13-15

Again, although the "Angel of the Lord" is not mentioned here, Jesus did appear to Joshua in the form of a man. This man was worshiped by Joshua (v. 14) and this man declared that Joshua was standing on Holy ground (v. 15).

9. The Beginning Story of the Judges -

Judges 2:1-3

The angel of Lord says things that only God could say. God is the One who brought them into the land which He swore to give unto their fathers (v.1). God is the One who promised to never break His covenant (v.1).

10. The Story of Gideon -

Judges 6:11-24

As you follow this passage, pay close attention to who is speaking to Gideon: in verse 12 the angel of the Lord is speaking; in verse 14 the Lord is speaking; in verse 16 the Lord is speaking; in verse 20 the angel of God is speaking. Lord and the angel of Lord are one and the same.

11. The Story of Samson's Birth -

Judges 13:3-23

Note especially verses 17-18. Manoah said to the angel of the Lord, "What is Thy Name?" (v.17) and the angel of the Lord said, "Why asketh thou thus after My Name, seeing it is secret?" The word "secret" may be translated "wonderful." It is the same Hebrew word found in Isaiah 9:6 – "His Name shall be called wonderful." In Isaiah 9:6 the term is used as a name of Christ who is also called "the Mighty God." The fact that the Lord's angel was God was certainly known by Manoah. After the angel of the Lord appeared to him Manoah said, "We have seen God!" (v.22).

Conclusion:

The Angel of the Lord is also mentioned in the story of David, Isaiah, the Psalms, and Zechariah. So it is amazing to see how Jesus Christ being our eternal God was always present in the past, even revealing Himself within the sacred Scriptures of the Old Testament, too.

Agricola · Aug 30, 2014

Jason0047 said:

So in other words the better translation is Messenger, not Angel, but that will go against your claims that the KJV is perfect direct from God. Surely if it is perfect, then it has to be Angel, not Messenger, otherwise it would have just been written Messenger.

Anyway yes Christ appears a number of times through the Old Testament.

hishealingred · Aug 30, 2014

I also want to add that Daniel saw Jesus and spoke with Him and it also fits the description that John had when he also saw Jesus in Revelation.

GodIsSalvation · Aug 30, 2014

Agricola said:

Angel literally means Messenger. Therefore KJV is as perfect a translation as any of the other trustworthy translations.

Agricola · Aug 30, 2014

So why was there the need to state that Messenger was the better translation?

GodIsSalvation · Aug 30, 2014

Agricola said:

Lol beats me on that one. I suppose for the purpose of his topic. Mind you I am not the one that says its a better translation, merely that the word Angel does indeed translate to Messenger. I still would prefer the term Angel myself as it makes the distinction between heavenly messengers and earthly messengers (ie: your mailman is a messenger, but he is not an angel.)

RedTent · Aug 30, 2014

It would be SO nice to just think and talk about understanding what God wants us to know, even though we don't have knowledge of the first language God used to explain without all this crappy stuff about who explained it in our language better than others. Understanding is important, this judging others about who does explaining best and who can't be trusted to explain well enough is not only beside the point, it is plain wrong.

Jason0047 · Aug 30, 2014

Agricola said:

No, it's not an error. The word "angel" could mean messenger during the times of the 1600's. That is why I provided the Etymology of the word because words change with the passage of time. We hear the word "angel" today and we think about either a creature with wings or somebody that is really good or nice. But people thru out the past didn't always think that way about that word, though. For example: When my parents were growing up, when you said the word "gay" around other people, you didn't have to worry about offending anyone. It meant something that is happy when you said it. However, if you say that word today around other people, you have to be careful because you could offend someone. So you see. Words change with the passage of time, my friend.

Jason0047 · Aug 30, 2014

Agricola said:

I didn't say it was a better translation. You are putting words into my OP that are not there.

Jason0047 · Aug 30, 2014

Anyways, I think what is great about this topic is that Christ is distinctively in the Old Testament as He is in the New Testament. For the Bible is all about Jesus. For Jesus said,

"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." (John 5:39).

Jason0047 · Aug 30, 2014

hishealingred said:

Thank you.

It is so beautiful how Jesus is in the Old Testament.

I imagine there is much to learn from Christ's appearance to Daniel.

hishealingred · Aug 30, 2014

Jason0047 said:

Hahaha, no, thank Jesus. B)

Jason0047 · Aug 30, 2014

Actually, one of my favorite Pre-incarnate appearances of Christ (Where he is not called the "Angel (Messenger) of the Lord") is in Joshua. I can't get the picture out of my head in what Joshua had seen. Here you have a man with a sword drawn in his hand that Joshua had seen. Joshua asked him if he was for us or for his adversaries. The man replied that he was of "the Captain of the Host of the Lord." Jesus is our Captain. For..

How Can You and I Make Sure We Make It Through the Storm?

When you go through a storm and you find yourself in jeopardy, and the threat of danger is near, you should not become fearful or be afraid as long as God is the captain of your life -Psalm 27:1-4; Psalm 46:1

Make sure you put all your trust in God - Proverbs 3:5-6

You need to realize, in all circumstances of your life, no matter how big or small, that God is able to deliver you just as Jesus delivered His disciples from the wind storm and the raging waters, and said "…Peace be still." - Mark 4:39

To make it through the storm, your faith in Jesus Christ must grow from infancy to maturity. In a number of instances in the gospel books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, you can see the Apostle’s faith was initially weak, but in time their faith grew. After Jesus calmed the Sea He asked His disciples, where is your faith? - Luke 8:25

Let us be encouraged to add to our faith that we will be able to get through the storm - 2 Peter 1:5-11

Are you having a hard time getting through the storm? Ask God to increase your faith in Him.

Source:
Is God the Captain of Your Life? Luke 8:22-25

Jason0047 · Aug 30, 2014

hishealingred said:

Amen, my brother.

Flamingspirit · Aug 30, 2014

Contrary to popular belief, Jesus was NOT the messenger of the old covenant. He was not an angel but came in the LIKENESS of sinful flesh.

Hebrews 1

1*God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2*Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3*Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

4*Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

5*For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

6*And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

7*And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

8*But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

9*Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Jason0047 · Aug 30, 2014

Pre-Incarnate appearances of Jesus is exactly that. Pre-Incarnate. The Incarnation is the Word made flesh. Before that, the second person of the Godhead known as the Word existed as Spirit and made many appearances in the Old Testament. This Word is a part of the Trinity and is eternal and uncreated. His Pre-Incarnate appearances are not in conflict with the Incarnation.

Flamingspirit · Aug 30, 2014

Jason0047 said:

Pre-Incarnate appearances of Jesus is exactly that. Pre-Incarnate. The Incarnation is the Word made flesh. Before that, the second person of the Godhead known as the Word existed as Spirit and made many appearances in the Old Testament. This Word is a part of the Trinity and is eternal and uncreated. His Pre-Incarnate appearances are not in conflict with the Incarnation.

How did He appear? As an angel?

Bowman · Aug 30, 2014

Jason0047 said:

Scripturally elaborate on why you are stuck into thinking that Jesus was 'pre-incarnate' in the OT.

Flamingspirit · Aug 30, 2014

Bowman said:

Be easy he's a Trinitarian like you. Surely He's not going to burn in Hell.

Bowman · Aug 30, 2014

Flamingspirit said:

No so for Unitarians...

Jesus is the "Messenger of the Lord" in the Old Testament.

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