Ultimate freedom without God's perfect Law?
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B
Scuba, that is the flesh and the result of the old sin nature in man that is depraved. You can't keep the law and get rid of these things. You have to be made a new creature through Christ and the law can't do that, only Christ can by mercy and grace. The law has no power of regeneration only God's mercy does through the Spirit. This is why Christ came because the law was so weak through the flesh and man needed to have his sin (sin nature) and his sins crucified on the cross so that he could be free to receive grace by faith and not by keeping the law. You are so mixed up and you see things through the law instead of the cross. Righteousness has never and will never come by keeping the law.
The photos still give us insight into the byproduct of living lawless. The Law of God gives us the standard of life that prevents these things from happening and protects God's creation. Regeneration only empowers us and gives us the desire to live by God's Law thus preventing these things from happening. It has nothing to do with trying to obey the Law to be made righteous. Righteousness is imputed to use through the blood of Christ and the Spirit empowers us and changes our desires to wanting to practice righteousness.
1 John 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.
Practicing righteousness is a birth issue, not a works issue.
1 John 2:29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.
Practicing righteousness is a byproduct of being righteous and the byproduct of practicing righteous is the opposite of what you see in the photos.
1 John 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.
Practicing righteousness is a birth issue, not a works issue.
1 John 2:29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.
Practicing righteousness is a byproduct of being righteous and the byproduct of practicing righteous is the opposite of what you see in the photos.
When a society that was built on the scriptures via the forefathers' beliefs of the United States colonies, and then in time the preaching against the law become predominant, this is what happens to the society. (OP and post 2) It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand the repercussions of lawlessness. Not only that, most church going people (that I have conversed with) think that the 1st amendment to the constitution truly states a "separation of church and state." That couldn't be further from the truth.
Amendment 1
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
When the church teaches society to reject the principles of love that are written in the law (Lev 19 for starters) then society becomes carnal, fleshly, and lawless. At the same time the ministry preaches freedom from the law of the Bible, society is being enslaved by corruption, transgressions, iniquity, and sin. It is insane to deny the instructions in righteousness for the sake of being free. Any society that wants peace and prosperity has laws to enhance that, same as ancient Israel when God spoke to Moses for Israel's benefit of peace, and prosperity. Are not God's laws better than man's laws? I'm not talking about the ordinances of the tabernacle/sanctuary/temple that Jesus fulfilled, I'm talking about the principles of God's law that were given for us to be responsible according to the will of God. Jesus fulfilled the sacrifice, now it's our proper response to pursue righteousness according to God's will, not our idea of what we think righteous. All scripture including the the loving principles of the law have been given for this purpose.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
I believe the ministers that preach against certain parts of scripture for the sake of defining their idea of God's grace are preaching falsehood. Satan wanted to distort the law through the Pharisees when Jesus walked this earth, and now (because that didn't work) he wants to get rid of it all together for the sake of destruction via corruption.
Amendment 1
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
When the church teaches society to reject the principles of love that are written in the law (Lev 19 for starters) then society becomes carnal, fleshly, and lawless. At the same time the ministry preaches freedom from the law of the Bible, society is being enslaved by corruption, transgressions, iniquity, and sin. It is insane to deny the instructions in righteousness for the sake of being free. Any society that wants peace and prosperity has laws to enhance that, same as ancient Israel when God spoke to Moses for Israel's benefit of peace, and prosperity. Are not God's laws better than man's laws? I'm not talking about the ordinances of the tabernacle/sanctuary/temple that Jesus fulfilled, I'm talking about the principles of God's law that were given for us to be responsible according to the will of God. Jesus fulfilled the sacrifice, now it's our proper response to pursue righteousness according to God's will, not our idea of what we think righteous. All scripture including the the loving principles of the law have been given for this purpose.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
I believe the ministers that preach against certain parts of scripture for the sake of defining their idea of God's grace are preaching falsehood. Satan wanted to distort the law through the Pharisees when Jesus walked this earth, and now (because that didn't work) he wants to get rid of it all together for the sake of destruction via corruption.
Revelation 14:12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.
Revelation 12:17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.
Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
In Revelation 22:14 NIV says "14“Blessed are those who wash their robes," but the word is the same in strongs as commandments. Not sure where they get wash their robes from.
Revelation 12:17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.
Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
In Revelation 22:14 NIV says "14“Blessed are those who wash their robes," but the word is the same in strongs as commandments. Not sure where they get wash their robes from.
B
Do any of you know just how deceitful the human heart really is? God said some things about it to Jeremiah and to Isaiah. Have you not read these. Here is a couple of things to ponder...
Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Isaiah 1:5,6 Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.
6 From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.
Do you think that by keeping the law that a sick head and faith heart which is desperately wicked and covered with wounds, bruises and putrifying sores is going to change for the better? As a matter of fact the strength (power) of sin is in the law (1 Cor 15:56). The more you try to keep the law the more strength (power) is added to sin. You know why that is? Because the heart is deceitful and desperately wicked and it can not be cured or mollified with ointment. The more you legislate the law the more sin is revealed and the more power sin has in the heart. Do you think that keeping the Sabbath makes you holy or sanctifies you in some way? Do you think that keeping the rest of the law does the same thing? If we are not made righteous by the deeds of the law then how is keeping the law a righteous or holy thing? If faith is what pleases God then how can the deeds of the law, including keeping the Sabbath, be pleasing to God for the NT believer?
Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Isaiah 1:5,6 Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.
6 From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.
Do you think that by keeping the law that a sick head and faith heart which is desperately wicked and covered with wounds, bruises and putrifying sores is going to change for the better? As a matter of fact the strength (power) of sin is in the law (1 Cor 15:56). The more you try to keep the law the more strength (power) is added to sin. You know why that is? Because the heart is deceitful and desperately wicked and it can not be cured or mollified with ointment. The more you legislate the law the more sin is revealed and the more power sin has in the heart. Do you think that keeping the Sabbath makes you holy or sanctifies you in some way? Do you think that keeping the rest of the law does the same thing? If we are not made righteous by the deeds of the law then how is keeping the law a righteous or holy thing? If faith is what pleases God then how can the deeds of the law, including keeping the Sabbath, be pleasing to God for the NT believer?
This is how to handle the lawless in society. If it is not practiced and taught by society the lawless will rule. I thought the church was supposed to do that because they should know the following better than those that propagate man's law that is different. The Pharisees made the law different than the original also.
Deuteronomy 19:11-20
11 But if any man hate his neighbour, and lie in wait for him, and rise up against him, and smite him mortally that he die , and fleeth into one of these cities:
12 Then the elders of his city shall send and fetch him thence, and deliver him into the hand of the avenger of blood, that he may die .
13 Thine eye shall not pity him, but thou shalt put away the guilt of innocent blood from Israel, that it may go well with thee.
14 Thou shalt not remove thy neighbour's landmark, which they of old time have set in thine inheritance, which thou shalt inherit in the land that the LORD thy God giveth thee to possess it.
15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth : at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established .
16 If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong;
17 Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges , which shall be in those days;
18 And the judges shall make diligent inquisition : and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;
19 Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you. 20 And those which remain shall hear , and fear , and shall henceforth commit no more any such evil among you.
Now the law (that I am presenting in part) for the true believes in Christ is the above, and well as below.
Leviticaus 19:
11 Ye shall not steal , neither deal falsely , neither lie one to another.
12 And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.
13 Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
14 Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD.
15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.
17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
18 Thou shalt not avenge , nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
Grace and faith don't give us the right to preach against this. We should be doing just the opposite. One keeps the Sabbath by ceasing from their own works and doing God's work.
Deuteronomy 19:11-20
11 But if any man hate his neighbour, and lie in wait for him, and rise up against him, and smite him mortally that he die , and fleeth into one of these cities:
12 Then the elders of his city shall send and fetch him thence, and deliver him into the hand of the avenger of blood, that he may die .
13 Thine eye shall not pity him, but thou shalt put away the guilt of innocent blood from Israel, that it may go well with thee.
14 Thou shalt not remove thy neighbour's landmark, which they of old time have set in thine inheritance, which thou shalt inherit in the land that the LORD thy God giveth thee to possess it.
15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth : at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established .
16 If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong;
17 Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges , which shall be in those days;
18 And the judges shall make diligent inquisition : and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;
19 Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you. 20 And those which remain shall hear , and fear , and shall henceforth commit no more any such evil among you.
Now the law (that I am presenting in part) for the true believes in Christ is the above, and well as below.
Leviticaus 19:
11 Ye shall not steal , neither deal falsely , neither lie one to another.
12 And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.
13 Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
14 Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD.
15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.
17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
18 Thou shalt not avenge , nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
Grace and faith don't give us the right to preach against this. We should be doing just the opposite. One keeps the Sabbath by ceasing from their own works and doing God's work.
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BradC
The proper perspective of keeping the Sabbath is Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.Sabbath is seventh, and seventh is rest.
The chapter begins with "Let us therefore fear , lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it."
The proper perspective of keeping the Sabbath is Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.Sabbath is seventh, and seventh is rest.
The chapter begins with "Let us therefore fear , lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it."
You think Hebrews 4:1 is bad. Get a load of this.
"Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain." Exodus 20:7
"Let me alone , that I may destroy them, and blot out their name from under heaven: and I will make of thee a nation mightier and greater than they." Deuteronomy 9:14
In the above God was speaking about Israel to Moses because of their disobedience with pagan practices, purposeful rejection of God's will, and falsehood.
"Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain." Exodus 20:7
"Let me alone , that I may destroy them, and blot out their name from under heaven: and I will make of thee a nation mightier and greater than they." Deuteronomy 9:14
In the above God was speaking about Israel to Moses because of their disobedience with pagan practices, purposeful rejection of God's will, and falsehood.
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God gives us a new heart, one that desires to keep His Law.
Ezekiel 36:25-27 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.
Faith does not do away with or cancel the Law, it obeys it.
Romans 3:31 Do we then cancel the law through faith? Absolutely not! On the contrary, we uphold the law.
If I didn't have faith in God and in all that He has planned for His creation I would find no reason to obey God's Law. Remember, sin can be fun and it can even be very prosperous. Not only that, a sinner can fit in just fine in the world today so when you have faith it causes you to be one who is swimming up stream while everyone else is just floating down stream.
When we keep God's Law and do good things it pleases Him.
1 John 3:22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.
So stop putting down the Law and stop disabling God's ability to change that old stinking heart into something brand new and pleasing to Him.
Ezekiel 36:25-27 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.
Faith does not do away with or cancel the Law, it obeys it.
Romans 3:31 Do we then cancel the law through faith? Absolutely not! On the contrary, we uphold the law.
If I didn't have faith in God and in all that He has planned for His creation I would find no reason to obey God's Law. Remember, sin can be fun and it can even be very prosperous. Not only that, a sinner can fit in just fine in the world today so when you have faith it causes you to be one who is swimming up stream while everyone else is just floating down stream.
When we keep God's Law and do good things it pleases Him.
1 John 3:22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.
So stop putting down the Law and stop disabling God's ability to change that old stinking heart into something brand new and pleasing to Him.
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