It is possible for a Christian to lose their salvation.

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sacraig67

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2014
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Well, yeah, my bad in painting everyone with the same brush. In my experience here on CC, I've found that many (if not most) of the more vehement OSASers like to insult the salvation of those who believe differently. But to make a blanket statement that they all do that was wrong. Of course they don't all do that. Mea Culpa.
No worries thank you for your humility in this post.
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
When we stand before the Judge at the end of our lives he will see one of two things....the blood of Christ washed over us (enter the Kingdom of God) or no blood (away I do not know you)

Romans 14:10-12

10 Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11 for it is written,
“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
and every tongue shall confess to God.”
12 So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.


1 Corinthians 3:11–15
11 For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— 13 each one’s work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14 If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

2 Corinthians 5:10
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad”
 

sacraig67

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2014
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If we have the blood of Christ over us then the work we do will be for the Glory of God. If we don't have the blood of Christ over us then all our work has been done in vain.
Because of Christ in us we are called to do good works but our salvation is not based on our works as Paul says in Eph 2:9 "not by works so that no one can boast"
 

sacraig67

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2014
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The verses you have quoted elude to a degree of reward we will receive in Heaven. What this degree of reward is I do not know to tell the truth.
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
If we have the blood of Christ over us then the work we do will be for the Glory of God. If we don't have the blood of Christ over us then all our work has been done in vain.
Because of Christ in us we are called to do good works but our salvation is not based on our works as Paul says in Eph 2:9 "not by works so that no one can boast"
This is why it is so tricky for people to understand.

We do not earn salvation by works, but our works are evident of those who are saved and headed toward eternal life.

If you say you believe, but do not produce good works, you are not following what Jesus said to do.
( Matthew 25 is a good example of this )

If you say you believe, but then turn back to the world and willful sin you are not walking and following Jesus.
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
The verses you have quoted elude to a degree of reward we will receive in Heaven. What this degree of reward is I do not know to tell the truth.
Some of it as you say, for the rewards we will receive.

But these also speak of everybody will stand before the Lord for judgment, and if you walked in darkness or willful sin or refused to obey our Lord Jesus words then those are headed to eternal punishment. ( Matthew 25 )
 

sacraig67

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2014
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I am afraid that because of some of the stupid things I have done and repented of...I will be doing the dishes lol
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
I am afraid that because of some of the stupid things I have done and repented of...I will be doing the dishes lol
I guess I will be the one drying the dishes and putting them away right beside for the things I have done to and repented of, but I don't care what I am doing or what rewards I have for I will be happy just to be there.
 
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MadParrotWoman

Guest
I am afraid that because of some of the stupid things I have done and repented of...I will be doing the dishes lol
Haha I recon I'll be joining you!
 

sacraig67

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2014
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We will actually be having fun because of where we will be! PRAISE THE LORD!!! BRING ON THE DISHES!! :)
 
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For me, this is dangerously close to works' righteousness. Also, this "maintaining salvation" teaching is the same as that held by the Roman Catholic Church, the Mormon church, and the Jehovah's Witnesses churches (among others). Of course, I realize that just because false groups teach the same thing, doesn't mean the teaching is wrong. Still, I can't help wondering if something is amiss. And, there is another problem.
James 2:10 and Gal. 3:10


  • James 2:10, "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all."
  • Gal. 3:10, "For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, 'Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.'”
people give names to things in scripture according to their view or their doctrine ...people also follow doctrine of man rather than God....The scripture says in many places we must do good works...who will you obey scripture or doctrine of man...
Titus 3:8
This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

As for the law I don't know of anyone practising the Mosaic law at this time...do you


A further concern I have is that if anyone were to try to maintain his salvation by being faithful/good, is he then required to keep the whole law?
The scripture teaches we must be faithful and do good ...that is one being obedient to God ..not works of the law
Revelation 2:10
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
Galatians 6:10
As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

I believe that those who seek to remain faithful and obedient to God in order to stay saved would say they are not trying to maintain their salvation by their works, their faithfulness, their obedience, etc. At least I hope not. But, isn't a law an instruction given by God that has a punishment for disobeying it? God commands everyone everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30). In Exodus 20, God commands that we believe in him. Can it be said that the command to believe and repent are laws since disobeying them has penalties? Do you see the problem?
I see no problem ...it is doctrine of man that creates problems they teach contrary to God's word

...read gal 6:10 again






A confession


I'm not a very good Christian. I know my treacherous and sinful heart. If my salvation were dependent in any way upon my faithfulness or obedience, then I'm in trouble. I would never claim that I was able to remain faithful enough or do enough good to maintain my position with God. I just can't go there. Instead, I rely totally on him to keep me--not me to keep myself.
All that I am and all I need is found in the work of Christ. Even my ability to believe is God's work (John 6:28-29). My believing has been granted to me by God (Phil. 1:29), and I believe because I was appointed to eternal life (Acts 13:48). Should I then stand before God and man and say that I am keeping my position with God by my own faithfulness? This is something I can never claim.
How can you confess you are not a good Christian because you have a treacherous and sinful heart and talk about your salvation in the same breath?.....
1 Timothy 1:5
Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

2 Timothy 2:22
Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart



That is why I ask people who believe they can lose their salvation and are seeking to maintain it by being faithful, "Are you taking credit for your believing?" If they say yes, they are boasting. If they say no, then I ask them what makes them think that God [who granted that they believe (Phil. 1:29), appointed them to eternal life (Acts 13:48), chose them before the foundation of the world for salvation (Eph. 1:4-5; 2 Thess. 2:13), predestined them (Rom. 8:29-30), and said that he will lose none (John 6:39)] will let them slip through his fingers when he said it was his will that those who believe would not be lost and would be raised on the last day (John 6:37-40)?
every verse used out of context to support a false teaching
My friend it is clear you have not learned Christ....But a believer knows ...
Hebrews 10:31
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

2 Peter 2:20-22King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
 
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He simply says He will not blot out their names from the Book of Life...anything more is speculation.
what is speculation?....read it yourself...look at vs 2 and 3....those are not overcomers...they have to repent and do good works

And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
 
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If we have the blood of Christ over us then the work we do will be for the Glory of God. If we don't have the blood of Christ over us then all our work has been done in vain.
Because of Christ in us we are called to do good works but our salvation is not based on our works as Paul says in Eph 2:9 "not by works so that no one can boast"
1 John 3:7
My little children, let no man lead you astray: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous:

If we are called to do good works and we do no good works then we are not doing what what we are called to do ...What does the word say about that...no works you deny God ...you deny God ...He denies you = no salvation
Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God; but by their works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
 

nowyouseem033

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2014
535
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1 John 3:7
My little children, let no man lead you astray: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous:

If we are called to do good works and we do no good works then we are not doing what what we are called to do ...What does the word say about that...no works you deny God ...you deny God ...He denies you = no salvation
Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God; but by their works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
newbirth this if for you.

WOW... once again 2 Peter 2:20-22 does not speak of salvation. Ive already replied to why it doesn't speak about salvation on another post, so Im not going to do it again.
Okay.
There is more scriptural support that claim that salvation cannot be lost and that God eternally secures those that are saved and his.

2 Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore if anyone is in Christ he is a new creature, the old has gone the new has come".
(If salvation can be lost, then the new creature that you are could be reversed and cancelled)

1 Peter 1:18-19 "redeemed"
The word redeemed refers to a purchase being made, a price being paid. For a Christian to lose salvation, God himself would have to revoke his purchase that he paid for with the precious blood of Christ.

Romans 5:1 "justify"
To justify means to declare righteous. All those who receive Jesus Christ as Saviour are declared righteous by God. For a Christian to lose salvation, God would have to go back on HIS WORD and undeclare what he had previously declared. (YEAH RIGHT)

John 3:16
Eternal life is a promise of eternity forever in heaven with God. God promises believe and you will have eternal life. For a Christian to lose salvation, eternal life would have to be taken away. If a Christian is promised to live forever how then can God break his promise by taking away eternal life.

So to sum it up for you my brother:

A Christian cannot be unnewly created, Redemption cannot be undone, eternal life cannot be lost and still be considered eternal, and salvation cannot be reversed.

Jesus said "It is finished" meaning he paid for your past sins present sins and future sins.
Complete meaning final.
To say salvation can be lost is to say that Christ only died for your past sins and present sins but not your future sins.
Which means Christ should of said "It is Half finished" LOL

"What began in the spirit cannot be COMPLETED by FLESH"

Romans 8:38-39
John 10:28-29
Jude 24-25

Salvation is sealed.
I will say that you can lose sanctification to some degree but never salvation.

some philosophical points:

If it is God who saves you, then it is God who keeps you.
If it is on you to maintain your salvation then you are dependant on yourself to keep your salvation. (wheres the faith in that)

Salvation is of the Lord.

The question isn't "Can I lose my Salvation" because this statement presumes that its by your ability that gets you saved.
HOW SO YOU ASK???? simple... "Can I" refers to your ability.. hint hint works

The question should be this. "Can GOD lose his child"
Simple answer NO!!

The story of the sheep and the shepherd is great comfort to us all.
"and if one strays will not the shepherd leave the 99 and go after the 1, so that he loses NONE"
Notice a sheep is straying but it is GOD who goes after that sheep not you....
and perhaps the best and most encouraging thing about ONCE saved always saved and this story about the sheep is that

You may lose a relationship with him (temporary), but he will never lose a relationship with you (eternally secured)
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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One of the most used passages to show Christians can lose their salvation is 2 Peter 2:20-22. To understand what Peter is talking about we have to begin with vs.17. He is talking about teachers who know the truth, know the Word, and preach the Word but do not accept it themselves. God is saying that it's better that they have never known it than know it and refuse to accept it. They fall back into sin because they themselves have never accepted the Word of truth. So since they have known the truth and refused it would have been better if they never knew the Truth in the first place.
Amen! As I already explained in post #14

2 Peter 2:1 - But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. 2 Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; 3 and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

"Having escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. For it to be of any spiritual value, there must be a heart submission to that knowledge. A person who rejects this knowledge will be more accountable at the judgment. The latter end is worse than the beginning. The "way of righteousness" and "holy commandment" emphasize the ethical content of the knowledge the false teachers had. They knew what was right and holy, but they deliberately chose to reject it. They had knowledge of salvation, but they lacked that true saving experience with the Lord. Just like in Hebrews 10:39, they had the knowledge of the truth (vs. 26) but chose to draw back to perdition and did not believe to the saving of the soul.

Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust with 2 Peter 2:20 - they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome. Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature."

Corruption (Strongs #5356) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.

Pollutions/Defilements (Strongs #3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution. Pollutions/Defilement refers to what is on the outside (2 Peter 2:20). But true believers have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust (2 Peter 1:4).

Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside. True believers have received a new nature, a divine nature, and they have new and different appetites and desires. They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than just cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20.
 
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newbirth this if for you.

WOW... once again 2 Peter 2:20-22 does not speak of salvation. Ive already replied to why it doesn't speak about salvation on another post, so Im not going to do it again.
Okay.
There is more scriptural support that claim that salvation cannot be lost and that God eternally secures those that are saved and his.
To you salvation is in your mind, to us who believe, salvation is in Christ....You believe Christ saved you to sin....But he saved us from sin ...we are created unto good works ....we must abide in Christ and bear fruit or be cast off and burned....Your belief is contrary to scripture...it is a doctrine of man....if you depart from the faith you cannot be saved...Our faith is in Christ..to depart from Christ is death, we must obey our Lord...are you saved to be a dashboard decoration?...what are you saved for?..what are you saved from? If you are saved through faith in Christ... what is the evidence of your faith in Christ? Why do you think they were called Christians at Antioch ...are you patterning your life after Christ?

take a look at what Peter says...
2 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

He bought them and they will be destroyed....
 
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Amen! As I already explained in post #14

2 Peter 2:1 - But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. 2 Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; 3 and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

"Having escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. For it to be of any spiritual value, there must be a heart submission to that knowledge. A person who rejects this knowledge will be more accountable at the judgment. The latter end is worse than the beginning. The "way of righteousness" and "holy commandment" emphasize the ethical content of the knowledge the false teachers had. They knew what was right and holy, but they deliberately chose to reject it. They had knowledge of salvation, but they lacked that true saving experience with the Lord. Just like in Hebrews 10:39, they had the knowledge of the truth (vs. 26) but chose to draw back to perdition and did not believe to the saving of the soul.

Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust with 2 Peter 2:20 - they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome. Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature."

Corruption (Strongs #5356) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.

Pollutions/Defilements (Strongs #3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution. Pollutions/Defilement refers to what is on the outside (2 Peter 2:20). But true believers have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust (2 Peter 1:4).

Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside. True believers have received a new nature, a divine nature, and they have new and different appetites and desires. They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than just cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20.
...someone escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ
They follow the way of righteousness
They follow the holy commandment delivered unto them
and you say that person was never saved....
 
E

ELECT

Guest
Revelation 3:11King James Version (KJV)


11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
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Re: How Many Threads On the Same Subject?

I doubt that anything original will be presented here.
This is going to be a bit long, but if you don't mind putting on your reading glasses, try the below for different. I also tried my best to keep it as simple as possible. In some places, ridiculously so, but I didn't write it just for you, so keep that in mind.
How do we receive Jesus?
You have to eat His flesh and drink His blood. In so doing, you will have eternal life.
Joh 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
Joh 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
But He said in verse 63, the flesh and blood to eat is spirit and not of the physical body.


What is the flesh of Jesus?
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
The word of God is the flesh of Jesus.
I believe the word, 'flesh' has a double meaning.
I believe it is for the spiritual flesh of Jesus and the word of God.
Also in Ezekiel 36:26 shows the heart as the flesh of the person, and for lack of space, Jesus is the heart of flesh of God the Father. He also is the Word of the Father, and the word was made flesh.
Mar 12:15 Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it.
Mar 12:16 And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar's.
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
As I will show below, The heart is the image of the person, an exact spiritual copy of the flesh.
Jesus asked whose image was on the penny, showing that it looked like Caesar's.
Hebrews shows that Jesus looks just like the Father, just like the heart does to the physical flesh of the man.
Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Notice what the heart was taken our of. The spiritual heart was taken out of the flesh of the person. Not out of the head and mind which is something different.
Dan 4:16 Let his heart be changed from man's, and let a beast's heart be given unto him; and let seven times pass over him.
Dan 4:33 The same hour was the thing fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar: and he was driven from men, and did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles' feathers, and his nails like birds' claws.
Know it or not, but men cannot eat grass and live unless his entire system be changed to that of a beast that can eat grass, such as a cow, a dear, a horse, and the like.
Notice when he was given a heart of a beast that eats grass, that his physical features change to be that of the heart that was given to him. With that, his understanding left also, which is another thing the heart not only affects but controls.
Pro 27:19 As in water face answereth to face, so the heart of man to man.
When you look in a mirror, you will see an exact copy of your physical face looking back at you. So it is with the heart of the man with the man. Most interpreters translate this verse to be the personality of the man, and it can be, for the heart basically encompasses the entire makeup of man, but it also is an exact spiritual carbon copy of your physical body. Even as the face in the mirror looks like your face, so also does the heart of man look like man's physical body or flesh.


What is the blood of Jesus?
Joh 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
Joh 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Joh 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
The Holy Ghost is always referred to some type of pure and/or cleansing liquid, such as water, wine, oil, or blood. The Holy Ghost is the power behind the word.
Luk 4:32 And they were astonished at his doctrine: for his word was with power.
It is very clear in scripture, that the word of God IS the power of God. The bible says, Jesus and the Gospel ARE the power of God. Both Jesus and the Gospel are the word of God.
Jesus' flesh IS the word of God and His blood IS the Holy Ghost.


How do we eat Jesus' flesh?
Joh 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger;...
By coming to Jesus, or receiving Him by faith, through God's word, we eat his flesh via the Holy Ghost, for He said you shall never HUNGER. For one to never hunger, one must have eaten or received bread, and Jesus or the word of God, which is truth, is the true bread of life. You eat His flesh when you receive the truth of God's word.


How do we drink Jesus' blood?
By believing on Him, we drink His blood, for He said, we shall never thirst. For one to never thirst, one must have drank or received drink. In this case, it would be the blood of Jesus. Also called, I believe, the Water of Life.
Joh 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, ...and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
Those who believe will never thirst, as in drinking water or a liquid of some sort.
Joh 6:55 ... and my blood is drink indeed.
His blood is drink and those who believe will never thirst are one and the same Holy Ghost.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
Can you lose your salvation, did Israel lose theirs?