It is possible for a Christian to lose their salvation.

know1 · Aug 30, 2014

Know it or not, we are all born again BY the word of God, which is truth.
The short of it is, if you receive the word of God by believing the truth, then as Peter started to sink in the water AFTER he was walking on it, and as thousands of Christians got healed by God and lost it, so can the word of God be taken out of your heart or die within, if you no longer agree with and believe the gospel.
For it is written, Amo 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?
If you you receive Jesus through His word by faith, then you can lose the word through deception unto doubt.
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

kennethcadwell · Aug 30, 2014

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

People who believe that you can not lose salvation do not like verses like this one, and try to twist it to mean some thing else, or that they people mentioned were not truly saved.

know1 · Aug 31, 2014

kennethcadwell said:

I think I have heard them all myself.
In this case, like you, I believe it like it is written.
Personally, I don't know how one could read it any other way, other than a Child of God losing their salvation after meeting those five criteria.
But I was trying to point out that we are born again because we have receive the word of God or the truth of God by faith, and that we can lose the truth through deception, thereby losing our salvation.

I talked for a while with a man who was a former ordained baptist minister who turn atheist, a while back.
As I mentioned in pior posts, this man loved God, believed with all his heart, like all baptists, went to cemetery school and got his degree and licsense to do everything a pastore does.
Then one day, he died by drowning. (He never said how he died and I didn't ask, but he did say if you ever want to kill your self, drowning is the best and least painful way to go. So I think he died by drowning.)
Then he died two more times after the first, and because all he saw each time, when he was supposedly dead, was blackness, he came to the conclusion that God wasn't real and the bible was just a book written by religious fanatics.
So my questions are;
Was this man ever born again?
If he was, then did he lose his salvation by rejecting Christ?
Or, was he never born again and therefore was able to reject Christ?

Atwood · Aug 31, 2014

for $64,000 You Cannot Quote "Lose Salvation" in the Bible

The 2 words "lose" and "salvation" do not occur in any verse of the Bible.

crossnote · Aug 31, 2014

Neither does Scripture ascribe salvation to us as if it is ''our salvation'' to lose.

But I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay that that I have vowed. Salvation is of the LORD.
(Jon 2:9)

nowyouseem033 · Aug 31, 2014

WOW... once again 2 Peter 2:20-22 does not speak of salvation. Ive already replied to why it doesn't speak about salvation on another post, so Im not going to do it again.
Okay.
There is more scriptural support that claim that salvation cannot be lost and that God eternally secures those that are saved and his.

2 Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore if anyone is in Christ he is a new creature, the old has gone the new has come".
(If salvation can be lost, then the new creature that you are could be reversed and cancelled)

1 Peter 1:18-19 "redeemed"
The word redeemed refers to a purchase being made, a price being paid. For a Christian to lose salvation, God himself would have to revoke his purchase that he paid for with the precious blood of Christ.

Romans 5:1 "justify"
To justify means to declare righteous. All those who receive Jesus Christ as Saviour are declared righteous by God. For a Christian to lose salvation, God would have to go back on HIS WORD and undeclare what he had previously declared. (YEAH RIGHT)

John 3:16
Eternal life is a promise of eternity forever in heaven with God. God promises believe and you will have eternal life. For a Christian to lose salvation, eternal life would have to be taken away. If a Christian is promised to live forever how then can God break his promise by taking away eternal life.

So to sum it up for you my brother:

A Christian cannot be unnewly created, Redemption cannot be undone, eternal life cannot be lost and still be considered eternal, and salvation cannot be reversed.

Jesus said "It is finished" meaning he paid for your past sins present sins and future sins.
Complete meaning final.
To say salvation can be lost is to say that Christ only died for your past sins and present sins but not your future sins.
Which means Christ should of said "It is Half finished" LOL

"What began in the spirit cannot be COMPLETED by FLESH"

Romans 8:38-39
John 10:28-29
Jude 24-25

Salvation is sealed.
I will say that you can lose sanctification to some degree but never salvation.

some philosophical points:

If it is God who saves you, then it is God who keeps you.
If it is on you to maintain your salvation then you are dependant on yourself to keep your salvation. (wheres the faith in that)

Salvation is of the Lord.

The question isn't "Can I lose my Salvation" because this statement presumes that its by your ability that gets you saved.
HOW SO YOU ASK???? simple... "Can I" refers to your ability.. hint hint works

The question should be this. "Can GOD lose his child"
Simple answer NO!!

The story of the sheep and the shepherd is great comfort to us all.
"and if one strays will not the shepherd leave the 99 and go after the 1, so that he loses NONE"
Notice a sheep is straying but it is GOD who goes after that sheep not you....
and perhaps the best and most encouraging thing about ONCE saved always saved and this story about the sheep is that

You may lose a relationship with him (temporary), but he will never lose a relationship with you (eternally secured)

nowyouseem033 · Aug 31, 2014

know1 said:

I think I have heard them all myself.
In this case, like you, I believe it like it is written.
Personally, I don't know how one could read it any other way, other than a Child of God losing their salvation after meeting those five criteria.
But I was trying to point out that we are born again because we have receive the word of God or the truth of God by faith, and that we can lose the truth through deception, thereby losing our salvation.

I talked for a while with a man who was a former ordained baptist minister who turn atheist, a while back.
As I mentioned in pior posts, this man loved God, believed with all his heart, like all baptists, went to cemetery school and got his degree and licsense to do everything a pastore does.
Then one day, he died by drowning. (He never said how he died and I didn't ask, but he did say if you ever want to kill your self, drowning is the best and least painful way to go. So I think he died by drowning.)
Then he died two more times after the first, and because all he saw each time, when he was supposedly dead, was blackness, he came to the conclusion that God wasn't real and the bible was just a book written by religious fanatics.
So my questions are;
Was this man ever born again?
If he was, then did he lose his salvation by rejecting Christ?
Or, was he never born again and therefore was able to reject Christ?

My friend just answers to your questions....

Was this man ever born again... Easy answer.. I DONT KNOW.
next question if he was... then my observation would be you will know them by their fruits, if he was or not.
was he never born again I would say probably given that he died a atheist.

Time will tell wether ones born again or wether ones not

biscuit · Aug 31, 2014

nowyouseem033 said:

WOW... once again 2 Peter 2:20-22 does not speak of salvation. Ive already replied to why it doesn't speak about salvation on another post, so Im not going to do it again.
Okay.
There is more scriptural support that claim that salvation cannot be lost and that God eternally secures those that are saved and his.

2 Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore if anyone is in Christ he is a new creature, the old has gone the new has come".
(If salvation can be lost, then the new creature that you are could be reversed and cancelled)

1 Peter 1:18-19 "redeemed"
The word redeemed refers to a purchase being made, a price being paid. For a Christian to lose salvation, God himself would have to revoke his purchase that he paid for with the precious blood of Christ.

Romans 5:1 "justify"
To justify means to declare righteous. All those who receive Jesus Christ as Saviour are declared righteous by God. For a Christian to lose salvation, God would have to go back on HIS WORD and undeclare what he had previously declared. (YEAH RIGHT)

John 3:16
Eternal life is a promise of eternity forever in heaven with God. God promises believe and you will have eternal life. For a Christian to lose salvation, eternal life would have to be taken away. If a Christian is promised to live forever how then can God break his promise by taking away eternal life.

So to sum it up for you my brother:

A Christian cannot be unnewly created, Redemption cannot be undone, eternal life cannot be lost and still be considered eternal, and salvation cannot be reversed.

Jesus said "It is finished" meaning he paid for your past sins present sins and future sins.
Complete meaning final.
To say salvation can be lost is to say that Christ only died for your past sins and present sins but not your future sins.
Which means Christ should of said "It is Half finished" LOL

"What began in the spirit cannot be COMPLETED by FLESH"

Romans 8:38-39
John 10:28-29
Jude 24-25

Salvation is sealed.
I will say that you can lose sanctification to some degree but never salvation.

some philosophical points:

If it is God who saves you, then it is God who keeps you.
If it is on you to maintain your salvation then you are dependant on yourself to keep your salvation. (wheres the faith in that)

Salvation is of the Lord.

The question isn't "Can I lose my Salvation" because this statement presumes that its by your ability that gets you saved.
HOW SO YOU ASK???? simple... "Can I" refers to your ability.. hint hint works

The question should be this. "Can GOD lose his child"
Simple answer NO!!

The story of the sheep and the shepherd is great comfort to us all.
"and if one strays will not the shepherd leave the 99 and go after the 1, so that he loses NONE"
Notice a sheep is straying but it is GOD who goes after that sheep not you....
and perhaps the best and most encouraging thing about ONCE saved always saved and this story about the sheep is that

You may lose a relationship with him (temporary), but he will never lose a relationship with you (eternally secured)

Analogy: You can submit an application to Jesus for salvation & eternal life with Him but it is His choice to accept or reject the application. It is not an automatic acceptance. Jesus knows our hearts and He will not be mocked. He knows our true sincerity & dedication to serve Him. Christians tend to forget that He is omniscient and knows our thoughts also. Yes, if Jesus accept our application, we are truly saved for eternal life. IMHO, most Christians are not saved and their applications have been rejected.

Dan58 · Aug 31, 2014

Paul said; "I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith" (2 Timothy 4;7). If its impossible for a Christian to lose salvation, why bother keeping the faith? I've personally seen Christians who've walked away from the faith, so imo, its possible to lose salvation. Its not a matter of God reneging on His promise, but a matter of us having a change of heart.

biscuit · Aug 31, 2014

I've personally seen Christians who've walked away from the faith, so imo, its possible to lose salvation.

IMHO, they were never saved.

pug32 · Aug 31, 2014

[SUP]1 Cor. 3:10 [/SUP]According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
[SUP][SUP]11 [/SUP]For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 [/SUP]Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

THERE IS A FOUNDATION [SUP]11 [/SUP]For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

[SUP]Eph. 2:8 [/SUP]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Not of works, lest any man should boast.

BUT WHAT WE BUILD ON IT GET BURN OR NOT [SUP]15 [/SUP]If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

BUT IF WE AS BELIEVERS "CHRISTIANS" DON'T DO THE TRUTH THAT GOD HAS TAUGHT, WE CAN DEFILE THE TEMPLE OF GOD [SUP]17 [/SUP]If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
[SUP]1 JOHN 1:6 [/SUP]If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

THE WORD TRANSLATED DESTROY ,IN THIS VERSE, IS THE GREEK WORD φθερεῖ, WHICH IS THE SAME GREEK WORD TRANSLATED DEFILE
[SUP]1 Cor. 3:17[/SUP]εἴ τις τὸν ναὸν τοῦ θεοῦ φθείρει, φθερεῖ τοῦτον ὁ θεός: ὁ γὰρ ναὸς τοῦ θεοῦ ἅγιός ἐστιν, οἵτινές ἐστε ὑμεῖς.

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9999ff"]Person
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #9999ff"] 3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #999999"]Tense[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #999999"] F[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9999ff"]Voice[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #9999ff"] A[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #999999"]Mood[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #999999"] I[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9999ff"]Number[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #9999ff"] S[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
φθείρω,v \{fthi'-ro}
[SIZE=-1] 1) to corrupt, to destroy 1a) in the opinion of the Jews, the temple was corrupted or "destroyed" when anyone defiled or in the slightest degree damaged anything in it, or if its guardians neglected their duties 1b) to lead away a Christian church from that state of knowledge and holiness in which it ought to abide 1c) to be destroyed, to perish 1d) in an ethical sense, to corrupt, deprave
[/SIZE]

[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9999ff"]Person[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #9999ff"] 3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #999999"]Tense[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #999999"] P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9999ff"]Voice[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #9999ff"] A[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #999999"]Mood[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #999999"] I[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9999ff"]Number[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #9999ff"] S[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD]φθείρω,v \{fthi'-ro}
[SIZE=-1] 1) to corrupt, to destroy 1a) in the opinion of the Jews, the temple was corrupted or "destroyed" when anyone defiled or in the slightest degree damaged anything in it, or if its guardians neglected their duties 1b) to lead away a Christian church from that state of knowledge and holiness in which it ought to abide 1c) to be destroyed, to perish 1d) in an ethical sense, to corrupt, deprave [/SIZE][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

JUST BECAUSE WE ARE BELIEVERS "CHRISTIAN" DOES NOT MEAN WE CANNOT SIN [SUP]1 JOHN 1:9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 2 PETER 2:20B they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

[SUP]2 PETER 2:20 [/SUP]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

1 JOHN 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

WE CAN BE ENTANGLED AND DEFILE OURSELF BUT ARE SAVLATION IS NOT BUILT ON WORKS IT BUILT ON CHRIST [SUP]11 [/SUP]For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

nowyouseem033 · Aug 31, 2014

biscuit said:

yeah sure.

one they were never saved because when tough times come they bail out.
or two if they truly are Gods then God will bring them back as the shepherd does his sheep.

marymagdalene7 · Aug 31, 2014

What about Rev 3:5. ? He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life.

In ordered to be erased from the book of life you have to first be put in the book of life.

mailmandan · Aug 31, 2014

kennethcadwell said:

False teachers are the main subject of the whole chapter. Peter did not mention that those who escaped the"pollutions of the world" through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, were "born again" or "saved."

2 Peter 2:1 - But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. 2 Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; 3 and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

"Having escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. For it to be of any spiritual value, there must be a heart submission to that knowledge. A person who rejects this knowledge will be more accountable at the judgment. The latter end is worse than the beginning. The "way of righteousness" and "holy commandment" emphasize the ethical content of the knowledge the false teachers had. They knew what was right and holy, but they deliberately chose to reject it. They had knowledge of salvation, but they lacked that true saving experience with the Lord. Just like in Hebrews 10:39, they had the knowledge of the truth (vs. 26) but chose to draw back to perdition and did not believe to the saving of the soul.

Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust with 2 Peter 2:20 - they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome. Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature."

Corruption (Strongs #5356) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.

Pollutions/Defilements (Strongs #3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution. Pollutions/Defilement refers to what is on the outside (2 Peter 2:20). But true believers have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust (2 Peter 1:4).

Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside. True believers have received a new nature, a divine nature, and they have new and different appetites and desires. They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than just cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20.

know1 · Aug 31, 2014

Re: for $64,000 You Cannot Quote "Lose Salvation" in the Bible

Atwood said:

HYPOCRITE!!! Neither does the word, 'rapture', but you believe in that!!!

You need to find a viable argument against the things I wrote WITH SCRIPTURE. The point is to use scripture to reveal truth from error, not spew forth the mess like the above statement, because your denomination and you believe that way.
I can show with scripture that we are born again by receiving the truth of God's word by faith.
If you wish to debunk something, I would suggest you start with that sir.

dcontroversal · Aug 31, 2014

only if you can be ripped out of the hand of..

The Heavenly Father
Jesus
and loose the seal that is stamped on you by the HOLY SPIRIT...

My bible teaches me that WHATSOEVER GOD DOES IT IS ETERNAL..NOTHING ADDED...NOTHING SUBTRACTED and he does this so men may fear him!

WHATSOEVER means WHATSOEVER.......! Including SALVATION!

Atwood · Aug 31, 2014

nowyouseem033 said:

Great post, YouSeem,

I think what drives a lot of the error is the idea that salvation is only some award that follows a future judgment, instead of
old things passing away & all becoming new, being begotten by God, getting a new nature, becoming a child of God
right now in this life upon belief in the Son of God. Now is the day of salvation.

In fact is that the very concept of salvation is misunderstood by many. Salvation is a Savior having mercy on the wretched sinner who cries out, "God be merciful to me a sinner" and trusts the Savior. Salvation is not an award for good works, which would be validation rather than salvation. Salvation is God giving sinners help out of their sinfulness.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.

And that salvation starts with a new birth:

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

This helps us understand 1 John as speaking of a new nature God gives the believer, which nature cannot & never sins (though the believer retains his old man flesh, which can spring into action):

'If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one also that doeth righteousness is begotten of him. '

3:1 Behold what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called children of God; and such we are. For this cause the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, now are we children of God, and it is not yet made manifest what we shall be. We know that, if he shall be manifested, we shall be like him; for we shall see him even as he is.

"9 Whosoever is begotten of God does no sin, because his seed abides [it is never lost!] in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil:"

"7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and everyone that loves is begotten of God and knows God."

"5:1 Whosoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is begotten of God: and whosoever loves him that begat loves him also that is begotten of him. 2 Hereby we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and do his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 4 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5 And who is he that overcomes the world, but he who believes . . . ."

"18 We know that whosoever is begotten of God sins not; but he that was begotten of God keeps himself
[the new nature stays unchangeable in righteousness],
and the evil one touches him not."

JesusIsAll · Aug 31, 2014

Re: for $64,000 You Cannot Quote "Lose Salvation" in the Bible

Atwood said:

I think if you could just make those letters a little bigger, more people may sign up for your convoluted arguments. I'm thinking a couple dozen more font points will get me to forget what the Bible actually teaches. LOL!

JesusIsAll · Aug 31, 2014

Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Revelation 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

1 John 1:6-7 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

JesusIsAll · Aug 31, 2014

Have you also ever tried some more iridescent giant letter colors? They can maybe dazzle people into believing anything. I mean, when you're in a lather and shouting, you may as well also do it in a chromatically blaring way, don't you think?

It is possible for a Christian to lose their salvation.

Senior Member

kennethcadwell

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

biscuit

Guest

Senior Member

biscuit

Guest

pug32

Guest

Senior Member

marymagdalene7

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

JesusIsAll

Guest

JesusIsAll

Guest

JesusIsAll

Guest