A Born Again Person Can Not Become Dead OSAS is Biblical

[Jason0047]

Thank God I have an anchor!!!!

Hebrews 6:17-19 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath: That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us: Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast and which entereth into that within the veil;

You can't choose a verse that you prefer so as to stamp out another verse in the Bible. The Bible is in 100% harmony and not in conflict with itself. You are denying what 1 Timothy 1:19 is saying about faith being made ship wreck whereby you are preferring another verse that sounds good and comforting to your theology. It doesn't work like that, though. You have to accept both passages as being equally true and balance the two of them.

 

[Jason0047]

WOW
okay Im a OSAS proponent and we believe in excommunication of wilful and unrepentant sin.
Either that person wont repent because he cant repent in which then he would not be saved, or that person has made a choice to live in continual and unrepentant sin in which if he is Gods will find it very hard to live in that sin and will inevitably come back to Christ because of the power of Gods grace.

Dude there are many scriptures that guarantee or a better word seal your salvation.

There are different levels of OSAS. Your church may not be as depraved as other churches but it is still a doctrine of immorality (Unless your OSAS Lite).

I hold to the Biblical View of "Conditional Salvation", so I am naturally against all forms of OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved teachings). However, that said, I believe that only those who hold to "Conditional Salvation" and "OSAS Lite" are true Christians (or my brothers). I believe all other forms of OSAS are teachings from the pits of Hell. Anyways, there are three major types of OSAS.

OSAS Type #1:
Classic OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) which says you can practice unrepentant sin that leads unto death (Such as lying, murder, hate, fornication, etc.) and yet you can somehow still be saved.

OSAS Type #2:
Mid Range OSAS says that you cannot practice sin otherwise you do not know God. However, abiding in an occasional or small unrepentant sin and then dying in that sin will not necessarily send you to Hell.

OSAS Type #3:
OSAS Lite teaches that you if you practice or continually abide in unrepentant sin then you were never saved to begin with. Meaning that a true believer is characterized by them living righteously. So falling away from the faith would be impossible (Despite the many verses that talk about such a thing).

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Family members can die. Note that in verse 24 that the son was dead and is alive "AGAIN" (implying he was alive to begin with!) Verse 32 also echoes this thought. Remember Ephesians 2:1 refers to the time when we were "dead in trespasses and sins" and Jude 1:12 speaks of those "twice dead".

Yep . . . my mother has passed away also my dad - but I am still their daughter and that is "corruptible seed" - How much more am I my heavenly Father's daughter through "incorruptible seed"!

Luke 15:11-32 - "And he said, A certain man had two sons: And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living. And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living. And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want. And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine. And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him. And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants. And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him. And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son. But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing. And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant. And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound. And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him. And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends: But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf. And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine. It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found."

If my son or daughter left home thinking they could make it on their own - I never heard from them - didn't know where they were - then I might consider that they could be dead and surely to me they were lost . . . . . until I heard from them. When I heard from them and saw them I would be very glad and would "make merry" because I would know that they were alive again and found.
The point is . . . . The father accepted his son with open arms full of grace and mercy.

OSAS sure is great. You can run the race with God and then slip on the mask of hypocrisy and serve sin and still be rewarded by God with Him allowing you into Heaven. However, Ezekiel talks about if you do unrighteousness, all your righteousness will be forgotten. Also, the Bible says, well done good and faithful servant, enter thou into the joy of the Lord. It's not... well done my sometimes evil and unfaithful servant, enter thou into the joy of the Lord. For Jesus says you cannot serve two masters. For you will hate the one and love the other.

I would say that the ones who preach to others works righteousness and works to maintain that righteousness which was given to them by and through faith of Jesus Christ and in what he accomplished are the ones with the "mask of hypocrisy" - thinking they can gain and maintain eternal life through works of the flesh. Knowing that they themselves fall but they depend upon themselves to pick themselves up - and make themselves GOOD enough for God . . . . at least we who believe in eternal security are humble enough to know that we aren't perfect - we aren't self righteous - we know that we stand in the family of God because of God's mercy and grace. We know that within that new creation is God's righteousness, (Romans 3:21-22), within that new creation God has made us righteous, God has sanctified us and we are redeemed - bought with the price of His dear Son - not by anything we have done in the flesh; for in the flesh dwelleth NO good thing - but by the faith and work of our Lord Jesus Christ. We who believe in eternal security DO NOT live in sin - we fall down just like any other Christian [including you] - but we know that that one fall, or fifty falls, or one hundred falls will not separate us from the love of Christ - we know that God's grace and mercy will pick us up and that he does not remove that Spirit by which we are born - it remains in us and it is that Spirit that makes us His sons/daughters - that is what He sees when He looks at us. We serve one master - Jesus Christ is our Lord.

 

[Katy-follower]

More like renewed back to the faith. James 5:19-20 speaks about this. It says if anyone who errs from the Truth and converts him (i.e. saves him), we are to let the person know who converts the sinner from the error of their ways shall save a soul from death and will covered a multitude of sins. This is done by getting a backslidden believer to repent of their wicked ways and come back to the body of believers and have fellowship again.

James 5:19-20: "Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins"

This scripture is addressing brethren (so those already saved)

The context of this scripture is physical death, not spiritual death.


This scripture was in my inbox the other day and for some reason I felt led to mark it with a star. Maybe it was meant for this thread?...

1 John 5:16-17: "If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that"

God can choose to take us out of this life, by way of physical death. He can remove a believer from their scene and place of witness if He chooses to.

Don't misunderstand. Believers are not sinless, we mess up once in a while. I would think that this scripture *might* apply to someone that continually rebels and does not allow God to disciple them. God chastises His children and I guess once in a while might take a child out of this world if He chooses to.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

If I am understanding you correctly, I think this is a lot of fancy talk that is trying to say that you can't sin because you are in Christ. However, if you were to look at the same epistle, you would realize that this is not the case, though. 1 John 3:9 is in reference to how a believer will not abide in unrepentant sin or sin habitually against God. It's not talking about how their sin is not imputed to them. No, no. 1 John 1:8 refutes that type of thinking. It says if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:6-7 makes it even more clear. It says if we walk in the Light as He is in the Light, then the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. But if we walk in darkness, we lie and do not the truth. This all leads to 1 John 2:1 and 1 John 1:9. It says if the brethren sins, they have an advocate that they can go to named Jesus whereby if they confess their sins, he is faithful and just to forgive them their sins and to cleanse them of all unrighteousness. Also, 1 John 1:6-7 parallels 1 John 2:3-4.

Have I ever said that I have not sinned? I KNOW that in the flesh dwelleth no good thing - that is where we sin - in the flesh. That sin in the flesh cannot touch that "seed"; which is incorruptible - because it is INCORRUPTIBLE. I know I sin - I am honest enough to know that I sin but then I also know that I have an advocate with my Father - Jesus Christ the righteous: and HE IS THE SACRIFICE - He died so that I could live . . . . Where does is say "abide in unrepentant sin or sin habitually against God"? 1 John is speaking of our fellowship with the Father and the Son - fellowship is a relationship - will that relationship suffer when I sin - yes - Does God remove his Spirit from me when I sin?
Our standing in the family of God as sons/daughters is firm and fixed!!!! Our state - whether we are in fellowship or not fluctuates because of our behavior.

The bottom line is - I can't MAKE myself good enough . . . . neither can you.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

You can't choose a verse that you prefer so as to stamp out another verse in the Bible. The Bible is in 100% harmony and not in conflict with itself. You are denying what 1 Timothy 1:19 is saying about faith being made ship wreck whereby you are preferring another verse that sounds good and comforting to your theology. It doesn't work like that, though. You have to accept both passages as being equally true and balance the two of them.

I do have an anchor and if it "stamps out" the verse you used - must be a reason!

Each time you preach - loss of salvation, i.e. loss of eternal life - you are denying that we are born again of the Spirit, that we have been sealed with the Holy Spirit, that we are already seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus - that Christ shed blood is sufficient, that we are God's workmanship, that our righteousness [self righteousness] is as filthy rags . . . .

 

[jb]

James 5:19-20: "Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins"

This scripture is addressing brethren (so those already saved)

The context of this scripture is physical death, not spiritual death.


....

Really?

Adam and Eve died spiritually the day they disobeyed God (Gen 2v17), but they did not die physically, that was many years in the future.

Ezek 18v4,20 with Rom 6v23, refer to spiritual death because if sin, the punishment of sin is spiritual death NOT physical death, hence why the Lord Jesus said to Nicodemus that he needed to be born again to enter the Kingdom of God. John 3v5,7

Rev 3v5: "Thus shall he who conquers (is victorious) be clad in white garments, and I will not erase or blot out his name from the Book of Life; I will acknowledge him [as Mine] and I will confess his name openly before My Father and before His angels."

Rev 22v19 "and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

ONLY a believer can have their name removed from the Book of Life and to be a believer one must first be saved (which is stating the obvious).

There has been a great deal of controversy over whether the eternal security of Christians is conditional or unconditional. Is the will of God irresistible regarding salvation, or can a believer frustrate the will of God and become an apostate from the faith? The Scriptures teach that believing in Jesus does not take away our free will, and that it is possible for Christians to apostatise and lose their salvation. However, the Scriptures also emphasise the eternal security of those who cling to and follow their Lord. John 10v27-29.

OSAS is NOT supported by the Scriptures, it is an error based upon a few Scriptures WITHOUT taking into account ALL the other Scriptures on this truth, ie. it is cherry picking of the Scriptures!

Yahweh Shalom

 

[BlackPlatypus]

You can't pluck yourself from God's hand. You can backslide. But you can never revoke the fact that Jesus put your name in the lambs book of life.
Remember what we were discussing about false teachers. Cleave to what God said in Jesus Christ. When Jesus said it no mortal interpretation can ever revoke the truth of God.

John 10:28-29 - "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."


How can I, being a man, pluck myself out of God's hand? Either I have salvation or I was never saved to begin with.

 

[Jason0047]

James 5:19-20: "Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins"

This scripture is addressing brethren (so those already saved)

The context of this scripture is physical death, not spiritual death.


This scripture was in my inbox the other day and for some reason I felt led to mark it with a star. Maybe it was meant for this thread?...

1 John 5:16-17: "If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that"

God can choose to take us out of this life, by way of physical death. He can remove a believer from their scene and place of witness if He chooses to.

Don't misunderstand. Believers are not sinless, we mess up once in a while. I would think that this scripture *might* apply to someone that continually rebels and does not allow God to disciple them. God chastises His children and I guess once in a while might take a child out of this world if He chooses to.

Go ahead and read the entire epistle of John. The entire theme of the epistle is a contrast not of physical life versus physical death, but is a contrast between spiritual life and spiritual death.

As for James chapter 5. Again, there is no mention or clue that this is talking about physical death. It talks about conversion and saving a soul and hiding a multitude of sins. All three of these things are spiritual. And there is no verse saying it is physical either. Again, James is talking about spiritual life and death, too.

 

[BlackPlatypus]

God have mercy upon you. May the truth of Christ find its way into your heart.

Sadly, you are one of the near sighted believers, always enjoying milk remaining as babes in CHRIST and confessing baby things to others who have grown towards meat. As it is also written to those who judge not rightly and fairly regarding the new Covenant, who 'only condemn themselves of doing the very same things that others do';

 

[BlackPlatypus]

Are you one of the few special ones you speak of?

The New Covenant is already established and written in the HOLY BIBLE and given to Christian to witness for themselves words of JESUS, of spirit and life and to 'abide/keep/obey/comply with/conform to' in all of them and 'bear much fruits' and 'their fruits must also abide'.

Scripture faith living as tutored in whole, as sound doctrine Spiritual knowledge, are not to be taken literally, like a Monopoly game, where one ia allowed to by-pass their journey, from the conditions imposed by an establishment, upon anyone who passes-by and arrive on any of them.

 

[Skinski7]

[/COLOR]Have I ever said that I have not sinned? I KNOW that in the flesh dwelleth no good thing - that is where we sin - in the flesh. That sin in the flesh cannot touch that "seed"; which is incorruptible - because it is INCORRUPTIBLE. I know I sin - I am honest enough to know that I sin but then I also know that I have an advocate with my Father - Jesus Christ the righteous: and HE IS THE SACRIFICE - He died so that I could live . . . . Where does is say "abide in unrepentant sin or sin habitually against God"? 1 John is speaking of our fellowship with the Father and the Son - fellowship is a relationship - will that relationship suffer when I sin - yes - Does God remove his Spirit from me when I sin?
Our standing in the family of God as sons/daughters is firm and fixed!!!! Our state - whether we are in fellowship or not fluctuates because of our behavior.

The bottom line is - I can't MAKE myself good enough . . . . neither can you.

You are a Gnostic. John refutes that kind of dualism in his first epistle.

The Gnostics taught that sin was in the flesh as opposed to being rooted in the soul. Thus they disconnected manifest behaviour from the condition of the heart. Basically they taught one could sin and not surely die because it was the spirit that was redeemed while the flesh remained sinful.

Gnosticism basically held the premise that matter was evil and entrapped the soul in a human body. A soul could be purified apart from sinful matter through gnosis.

John wrote this...

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.


The children of God are made manifest by their deeds of righteousness. There is no disconnect between the flesh and the spirit. The flesh is but a vessel that we rule over. We can either yield our vessel to sin by giving into temptation or we can yield ourselves to righteousness by walking in the Spirit.

Being saved means we have been rescued from the state whereby we yielded our vessel to unrighteousness. Hence we obeyed sin unto death instead of obeying unto righteousness (Rom 6:16).

If Satan can convince people that sin is rooted in the flesh as opposed to being rooted in the will then people can be deceived into believing that sinning is inevitable thus neutralising any possibility of a genuine repentance.

So instead of repenting people like you approach God confessing a sinful state and trust in a provision. Your heart is never transformed due to this methodology. Yet you have come under a false assurance that you are saved because you view the death of Christ as effecting a provision which removes the condemnation for sinning. It is all a satanic deception which is leading millions of people into eternal ruin.

When one is deceived they do not know it, that is what deception is.

The Bible plainly states that the children of God keep themselves from the wicked one and do not sin. A Christian is no longer a rebel.

Rebellion = Death.

Rebellion must be repented from and forsaken. The forgiveness of sins is conditional upon the rebellion ceasing because the wages of sin is death. One cannot sin and not surely die. God said, "ye shall surely die" to Adam and Eve. Satan said, "ye shall surely not die." OSAS is premised on a false salvation within the framework that "you can rebel against God and not surely die."

The Bible is so very clear on these things.

Don't blow my words off. Think about them and seriously consider them. You are still breathing and thus you can repent and yield to the truth. When we stop breathing it is to late to change. Jesus warned of MANY people being rejected, people who "worked iniquity." He stated that FEW would be saved and that those FEW did the will of the Father. Ongoing sin is the opposite of doing the will of the Father. The sin has to stop or you'll perish.

 

[Katy-follower]

Really?

Adam and Eve died spiritually the day they disobeyed God (Gen 2v17), but they did not die physically, that was many years in the future.

Ezek 18v4,20 with Rom 6v23, refer to spiritual death because if sin, the punishment of sin is spiritual death NOT physical death, hence why the Lord Jesus said to Nicodemus that he needed to be born again to enter the Kingdom of God. John 3v5,7

Rev 3v5: "Thus shall he who conquers (is victorious) be clad in white garments, and I will not erase or blot out his name from the Book of Life; I will acknowledge him [as Mine] and I will confess his name openly before My Father and before His angels."

Rev 22v19 "and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

ONLY a believer can have their name removed from the Book of Life and to be a believer one must first be saved (which is stating the obvious).

There has been a great deal of controversy over whether the eternal security of Christians is conditional or unconditional. Is the will of God irresistible regarding salvation, or can a believer frustrate the will of God and become an apostate from the faith? The Scriptures teach that believing in Jesus does not take away our free will, and that it is possible for Christians to apostatise and lose their salvation. However, the Scriptures also emphasise the eternal security of those who cling to and follow their Lord. John 10v27-29.

OSAS is NOT supported by the Scriptures, it is an error based upon a few Scriptures WITHOUT taking into account ALL the other Scriptures on this truth, ie. it is cherry picking of the Scriptures!

Yahweh Shalom

There is physical death and there is spiritual death.

If God keeps chastising me (His child - He chastises all His children) and I keep ignoring Him and not allowing Him to guide me, could He take me physically from this world? Yes, if He chose to. I'm not saying that if one slips up and sins that they will physically die for it. Please read my original post again.

Adam and Eve clearly were restored in their relationship with God because the very fact that Eve said in Genesis 4:1-2: Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, “I have acquired a man from the Lord.” Then she bore again, this time his brother Abel" - one might wonder whether she thought she might be the woman to give birth to the Messiah, but either way she is praising God for blessing her with a child. So she is not in rebellion here, it seems that she is restored in her relationship with God otherwise she would not have these feelings.

This belief in losing salvation most likely *in my opinion* came from Catholicism. A lot of Catholic teachings have crept into the churches like a bad plague, infecting people. Catholicism teaches a different gospel and also that you must maintain your salvation, that you can never have assurance of eternal life. It seems that many churches are believing this. This is at the core of the works based gospel and the mother of all works based gospels I recall declared an anathema if you believe in eternal security.

With the physical birth you cannot climb back into your mother's womb. With the Spiritual birth you cannot be unborn spiritually.

The promises of God are eternal, not temporary or dependent on your performance. Eternal means eternal. God does not lie.

An important thing to ask yourselves - why do you not feel eternally secure? Did you not feel that security the moment you were saved, if you were in fact saved? Also - when you witness to non believers, what do you tell them that God offers them? Eternal life or temporary salvation? How is that good news? That Jesus' blood does not pay your sin debt completely but only in part? Is His blood not sufficient?

I don't have time to reply to all of your post right now, but just wanted to share this.

 

[Katy-follower]

Each time you preach - loss of salvation, i.e. loss of eternal life - you are denying that we are born again of the Spirit, that we have been sealed with the Holy Spirit, that we are already seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus - that Christ shed blood is sufficient, that we are God's workmanship, that our righteousness [self righteousness] is as filthy rags . . . .

And to make sure we get the message loud and clear He repeats it several times ...

Romans 8:38-39: "For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord"

 

[BlackPlatypus]

And to make sure we get the message loud and clear He repeats it several times ...

Romans 8:38-39: "For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord"

And yet there are those who will quote Paul in other passages so as to deliver the message that states just the opposite. That we are not eternally saved and we in our carnal nature can elect to take ourselves out of God's plan, his hand, of salvation.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

You are a Gnostic. John refutes that kind of dualism in his first epistle.

The Gnostics taught that sin was in the flesh as opposed to being rooted in the soul. Thus they disconnected manifest behaviour from the condition of the heart. Basically they taught one could sin and not surely die because it was the spirit that was redeemed while the flesh remained sinful.

Gnosticism basically held the premise that matter was evil and entrapped the soul in a human body. A soul could be purified apart from sinful matter through gnosis.

I am a Christian. I see in scripture where flesh and spirit are opposed to one another.
John 3:6 - That which is born of the flesh is flesh. That which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Romans 8:3-10,12,13 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of flesh, condemned sin in the flesh. That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally [fleshly] minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal [flesh] mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. BUT YE ARE NOT IN THE FLESH, BUT IN THE SPIRIT, IF SO BE THAT THE SPIRIT OF GOD DWELL IN YOU. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. AND IF CHRIST BE IN YOU, THE BODY IS DEAD BECAUSE OF SIN; BUT THE SPIRIT IS LIFE BECAUSE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. . . . 12,13) For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. [Also Romans 7]

John wrote this...

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

The children of God are made manifest by their deeds of righteousness. There is no disconnect between the flesh and the spirit. The flesh is but a vessel that we rule over. We can either yield our vessel to sin by giving into temptation or we can yield ourselves to righteousness by walking in the Spirit.

Those [including myself] who believe in eternal security - do not live in unrighteousness. I sin as I am sure you do also -
so each time we sin - we move to "unrighteousness" - we lose the holy Spirit - we are wiped out of the book of life - so if I sin ten times today - ask forgiveness for nine times - I have had the holy Spirit removed and put back nine times - had my name removed and put back nine times out of the book of life and uh oh - I forgot about that tenth sin - What happens now?

See, I believe I am made righteous by my faith in Jesus Christ - not by anything I have done nor can do. I believe that I am justified by my faith in Jesus Christ - not by anything I have done nor can do - I believe that I am a son/daughter of God because of being born of the Spirit by my faith in Jesus Christ. All the faith I have rest in Jesus Christ.

Being saved means we have been rescued from the state whereby we yielded our vessel to unrighteousness. Hence we obeyed sin unto death instead of obeying unto righteousness (Rom 6:16).

Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. What doctrine has been delivered unto me - For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life. I realize that when I was born again - My old man was crucified - spiritually - but I have a spiritual battle - my flesh wars against my spirit so that I can not do the things I want to do - Galatians 5:16,17 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. . . . . I have to put off the old man and put on the new. [There you see again the contrast of the flesh against the Spirit.] Do you seriously think that each born again believer does not have this struggle? Just because I believe in eternal security doesn't mean I live my life hellishly - I endeavor to live as godly a life as possible but I also know that it is not ME that makes ME righteous, justified, sanctified - and if it is God that makes me righteous, justified, sanctified then I am those things! Not because of ME but because God sent His only begotten Son that I may have everlasting life. . . . . .

If Satan can convince people that sin is rooted in the flesh as opposed to being rooted in the will then people can be deceived into believing that sinning is inevitable thus neutralising any possibility of a genuine repentance.

So instead of repenting people like you approach God confessing a sinful state and trust in a provision. Your heart is never transformed due to this methodology. Yet you have come under a false assurance that you are saved because you view the death of Christ as effecting a provision which removes the condemnation for sinning. It is all a satanic deception which is leading millions of people into eternal ruin.

Sin is rooted in the flesh - For I delight in the law of God after the INWARD MAN: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O, O, O , wretched man that I am!!!! WHO shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. [Romans 7:22-25] - O foolish Galatians, . . . . Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? [Gal. 1a, 3] And you who teach that maintenance of salvation and perfectness is of our own doing - lead millions of people into eternal ruin because they know they can't achieve that perfectness so why try!!!!!!

When one is deceived they do not know it, that is what deception is.

The Bible plainly states that the children of God keep themselves from the wicked one and do not sin. A Christian is no longer a rebel.

2 Thessalonians 3:3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.
John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

Rebellion = Death.

Rebellion must be repented from and forsaken. The forgiveness of sins is conditional upon the rebellion ceasing because the wages of sin is death. One cannot sin and not surely die. God said, "ye shall surely die" to Adam and Eve. Satan said, "ye shall surely not die." OSAS is premised on a false salvation within the framework that "you can rebel against God and not surely die."

Again no one is speaking of living in rebellion . . . . [sigh] I hope that you have asked forgiveness for every single sin you have committed - hope you haven't forgot even ONE - and I thank my God that I rely on HIM to keep his promise to me for eternal life through faith in his Son - for being ever merciful and graceful . . . .

The Bible is so very clear on these things.

Don't blow my words off. Think about them and seriously consider them. You are still breathing and thus you can repent and yield to the truth. When we stop breathing it is to late to change. Jesus warned of MANY people being rejected, people who "worked iniquity." He stated that FEW would be saved and that those FEW did the will of the Father. Ongoing sin is the opposite of doing the will of the Father. The sin has to stop or you'll perish.

I am not working iniquity - as I have said - believing in eternal salvation is not rebellion, it is not sinning willfully, it is believing God's promises that once I have been born of the Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ - I am given eternal life - else John 3:16 is a lie . . . . And that is not the only verse that would be considered a lie . . . . . .

 

[Stephen63]

You can't pluck yourself from God's hand. You can backslide. But you can never revoke the fact that Jesus put your name in the lambs book of life.
Remember what we were discussing about false teachers. Cleave to what God said in Jesus Christ. When Jesus said it no mortal interpretation can ever revoke the truth of God.

Really? That sooo messes up this scripture:
Matthew 7:14 (KJV) [SUP]14 [/SUP]Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

It would mean that all those backslidden christians will be saved during great falling away..... whether they have the mark of the beast or not. You can't "fall away" if you were never saved in da first place, right?

 

[BlackPlatypus]

Really? That sooo messes up this scripture:
Matthew 7:14 (KJV) [SUP]14 [/SUP]Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

It would mean that all those backslidden christians will be saved during great falling away..... whether they have the mark of the beast or not. You can't "fall away" if you were never saved in da first place, right?

No, it doesn't mess up that scripture.
[h=3]1 John 1:9[/h] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[Stephen63]

You can't pluck yourself from God's hand. You can backslide. But you can never revoke the fact that Jesus put your name in the lambs book of life.
Remember what we were discussing about false teachers. Cleave to what God said in Jesus Christ. When Jesus said it no mortal interpretation can ever revoke the truth of God.

Neither can you revoke the fact that your name can be taken out of the Book of Life.
 Revelation 3:5 (KJV) [SUP]5 [/SUP]He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
[HR][/HR]Revelation 22:19 (KJV) [SUP]19 [/SUP]And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

[Stephen63]

No, it doesn't mess up that scripture.
1 John 1:9

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

What then do you do about those that backslid & never came back to confess....ya know, besides blowing it off that they were never saved in the first place, I mean?