A Born Again Person Can Not Become Dead OSAS is Biblical

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Aug 20, 2014
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Jeremiah 32:40 I will make with them an everlasting covenant, that I will not turn away from doing good to them. And I will put the fear of me in their hearts, that they may not turn from me.

Beware those who hope to lead the seeker, even the faithful, into believing they are seeking temporary salvation, while the faithful in Christ were given temporary life by Jesus Christ and his death on the cross. They are everywhere. And they are damned unless they come to repentance.

Hold the false teachers, the atheist trolls, the disciples of devils, in your prayers. Because while they are still alive they can still be reached. May God have mercy so that that come to pass. Before it is too late.


[video=youtube;tzqYG4-6Mr4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzqYG4-6Mr4[/video]
Published on Mar 25, 2013
Eternal life is a free gift received by grace through faith in Christ without works. Everlasting life by definition is life that lasts forever. A born again believer can never die(John 5:24, John 11:25-26). A person who believes they can lose their salvation is not saved as proven from Scripture in the video by Pastor Steven L Anderson. Don't trust works salvation heretics like Dan Corner, Paul Washer, Ray Comfort, David Cloud, Tim Conway etc who all teach you can lose your salvation.

There's nothing a saved person can do to go to hell. I couldn't go there if I wanted to. Not because I'm good but because I'm a sinner worthy of eternal damnation. BUT the Lord Jesus Christ(God in flesh) died for our sins, so that:

John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

He was buried and three days later rose again for our justification. My eternal destiny is settled because I trusted in Him for the free gift of eternal life and called upon His name by faith. You say ''But you don't deserve to go to Heaven!''. I say: - ''And that's the point!''.


A podcast = Pastor John Piper
Can a Born-Again Christian Lose Salvation?

(There is a link beneath this video window that allows you to see the Transcript of this podcast as well if you miss the scriptural references).

May God Bless and Keep The Faithful in Christ. Amen.
 
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Jul 22, 2014
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#2
This reminds me of the faulty presuppositional statement made by OSAS proponents about how a believer cannot be "unborn." At first glance, the statement that one cannot be "unborn" as a defense for "Once Saved Always Saved" appears to be one of the most puzzling arguments presented. But it is a completely illogical assertion for even in the natural, there is no such condition as being "unborn".

However, being born is the process whereby life is made manifest. The opposite of having life is not to be "unborn", but to be "dead." Just as one dies physically when life is no longer present, one also dies spiritually when the life of Christ is no longer present within.

This truth is reiterated in the parable of the Prodigal Son. When the son returns from his rebellious, riotous living, the father states:

"For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found." (Luke 15:11-24)

For the argument about being "unborn" is a strawman. No one is asserting that someone can be "unborn." However, being separated from the life of Christ will result in "spiritual death" (this is discussed in more detail here).

Another correlation some attempt to make is that the spiritual new birth is a reflection of the physical birth. They say, "No matter what I do or how I disappoint him, my earthly father is always my father and I will always be his son. It is the same with God." Therefore, they claim that - just like your physical genetic relationships cannot be undone - neither can your spiritual relationships.

The problem with this assertion is that our relationship with God as His sons and daughters is not based on a us being His physical children. We are not children of God by natural birth, but by spiritual adoption through faith.

"For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith." (1 John 5:4)

So, if our faith is what determines our relationship with God, the question becomes, "Can the foundation of one's faith change?"

We can draw back from faith:
"Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him." (Hebrews 10:38)

Faith can be overthrown:
"Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some." (2 Timothy 2:18)

You can cast off your faith:
"Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith." (1 Timothy 5:12)

One's faith can be put away and made shipwrecked:
"Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck." (1 Timothy 1:19)

In any event, I hope this helps.

May God's love shine upon you.

With loving kindness to you in Christ:

Sincerely,

~Jason.



...

Source Used:
http://thelatterdays.blogspot.com/20...be-unborn.html
 
Aug 20, 2014
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#3
Unfortunately, those who deny the validity of scripture and the promise of eternal salvation are saying exactly that.
That once one is born again they can be un-born and instead of being a new creature they can become the old one.
Making Christ's promise a lie. And redefining to their own satisfaction the meaning of, 'eternal'.

Sad. But thank you for the link to the Mormon cultist site. That certainly puts deniers of eternal salvation into perspective when they argue Jesus lied and salvation is not eternal.



This reminds me of the faulty presuppositional statement made by OSAS proponents about how a believer cannot be "unborn." At first glance, the statement that one cannot be "unborn" as a defense for "Once Saved Always Saved" appears to be one of the most puzzling arguments presented. But it is a completely illogical assertion for even in the natural, there is no such condition as being "unborn".

However, being born is the process whereby life is made manifest. The opposite of having life is not to be "unborn", but to be "dead." Just as one dies physically when life is no longer present, one also dies spiritually when the life of Christ is no longer present within.

This truth is reiterated in the parable of the Prodigal Son. When the son returns from his rebellious, riotous living, the father states:

"For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found." (Luke 15:11-24)

For the argument about being "unborn" is a strawman. No one is asserting that someone can be "unborn." However, being separated from the life of Christ will result in "spiritual death" (this is discussed in more detail here).

Another correlation some attempt to make is that the spiritual new birth is a reflection of the physical birth. They say, "No matter what I do or how I disappoint him, my earthly father is always my father and I will always be his son. It is the same with God." Therefore, they claim that - just like your physical genetic relationships cannot be undone - neither can your spiritual relationships.

The problem with this assertion is that our relationship with God as His sons and daughters is not based on a us being His physical children. We are not children of God by natural birth, but by spiritual adoption through faith.

"For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith." (1 John 5:4)

So, if our faith is what determines our relationship with God, the question becomes, "Can the foundation of one's faith change?"

We can draw back from faith:
"Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him." (Hebrews 10:38)

Faith can be overthrown:
"Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some." (2 Timothy 2:18)

You can cast off your faith:
"Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith." (1 Timothy 5:12)

One's faith can be put away and made shipwrecked:
"Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck." (1 Timothy 1:19)

In any event, I hope this helps.

May God's love shine upon you.

With loving kindness to you in Christ:

Sincerely,

~Jason.



...

Source Used:
http://thelatterdays.blogspot.com/20...be-unborn.html
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#4
Jason0047;1670562 Another correlation some attempt to make is that the spiritual new birth is a reflection of the physical birth. They say said:
No matter what I do or how I disappoint him, my earthly father is always my father and I will always be his son. It is the same with God[/I]." Therefore, they claim that - just like your physical genetic relationships cannot be undone - neither can your spiritual relationships.
Read John chapter 8. Jesus recognized in verse 37 that the Pharisees were of the seed of Abraham, but their actions proved that their father was the devil and not God. For they did not understand his speech because they did not receive His Word (i.e. Which can be either the spoken words of Jesus or the Scriptures). Jesus said to them, "I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father." Did you catch that? Jesus said the Pharisees were doing that which they seen (i.e. sin) of their father (i.e. the devil). Are you doing that which you have seen (sin) of your father (the devil)? Did Jesus consider them saved?
 
Aug 20, 2014
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#5
Did they repent of their sins and accept Jesus as their savior? Did you watch the very short videos in the OP?
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#6
Unfortunately, those who deny the validity of scripture and the promise of eternal salvation are saying exactly that.
That once one is born again they can be un-born and instead of being a new creature they can become the old one.
Making Christ's promise a lie. And redefining to their own satisfaction the meaning of, 'eternal'.

Sad. But thank you for the link to the Mormon cultist site. That certainly puts deniers of eternal salvation into perspective when they argue Jesus lied and salvation is not eternal.
That is funny. They are not Mormon. Read their about page here:

The Latter Days: About Us

That's what I am talking about. You simply see something and jump to the wrong conclusions. But you can't do that when you read anymore than you can do so with the Word of God. The Scriptures have to be read in context.
 
Aug 20, 2014
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#7
That is funny. They are not Mormon. Read their about page here:

The Latter Days: About Us
That's funny. They co-opt the Mormons name and first thing they have to do in their self-description is explain they're not Mormon.
See, that's what I'm talking about. People who believe Eternal Salvation is redefined as temporary salvation.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#8
Did they repent of their sins and accept Jesus as their savior?
Salvation was no different in the Old Testament than than the New Testament. Man was saved by faith in God thru repentance like he is today. It's the same God. The Gentile city of Nineveh repented and averted God's Judgment. Christ is a part of God. They repented to God (Christ). They were not saved by law keeping. Obedience to the Law was merely an outward reflection of their inner heart transformation by God. Read Psalm 51 again. David speaks about renewing a right new spirit within him. He said not to take the Holy Spirit from him. Jesus essentially told Nicodemus that he should have known about being "born again." In fact, the word for "born again" is "circumcision of the heart" (Which is mentioned many times in the Old Testament). Romans 11:22 tells us that we are to continue in the goodness of God or we will also be cut off like the Jews.

Did you watch the very short videos in the OP?
Not interested. Teaching that a believer can get away with evil flies in the face of what it actually means to be good. When you watch a movie, or turn on the news, you know the good guys from the bad guys by what they do. There is no excuse for sin or rebellion against God. The Lord didn't tolerate Lucifer's rebellion. Why would he tolerate a believer's rebellion? In other words, you want me to believe that God's people can live out a hypocritical faith and still be saved. Sorry, that is not how it works. You can't be unfaithful to your spouse and expect them to want to be with you.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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That's funny. They co-opt the Mormons name
The Mormons are actually called Latter Day Saints. So it is not a co-opt of their name. They are called: Latter Days Ministry. There is a difference.

and first thing they have to do in their self-description is explain they're not Mormon.
Because they know there will be people like you who will get the wrong idea without really reading further. That is what I believe OSAS proponents do every time they pick up their Bibles. They don't keep reading.

See, that's what I'm talking about. People who believe Eternal Salvation is redefined as temporary salvation.
I don't see how a ministry that is not Mormon and has only two words in the name of their church that are used by Mormons has anything to do with what you are talking about. When you think of Salvation in being eternal you think Salvation is sort of like a super power or something. The Scriptures do not say it is a super power or anything like that. Salvation is a person named Jesus Christ. Jesus possesses immortality. It is in Him that you have salvation. No Jesus. No salvation. For he that has the Son has life and He that does not have the son does not have life (1 John 5:12). In fact, I have even heard the ridiculous statement made by OSAS proponents that they say you can be out of fellowship with God and still be saved. But 1 John 5:12 refutes this type of thinking. And why would God abide in you will you sin and rebel against Him? Does not God hate sin?
 
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Aug 20, 2014
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#10
Because they know there will be people like you who will get the wrong idea without really reading further.
Still a perfect analogy of deniers of Christ's promise of eternal salvation.
They pick a name that comes into conflict with false doctrine and then people like you attempt to berate people like me who see, Later Day, and believe it must be Mormon and discount the worth of reading beyond that.

You meet someone who believes Jesus and takes him at his word with regard to eternal salvation being irrevocable. And you attempt to berate both Christ and those who trust his promise of grace and eternal life, because we don't interpolate his words to say eternal is actually revocable and temporary.
And God gives and then snatches back the grace he gives.

This thread is not to regurgitate the false doctrine teachers that abound in other threads here. Rather, it is to show people through just the two sermons in the OP, that eternal salvation is exactly that in scripture.

If you wish to deliver false teachings that refute Jesus take your replies from now on to those other threads please. Thank you.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#11
Still a perfect analogy of deniers of Christ's promise of eternal salvation.
They pick a name that comes into conflict with false doctrine and then people like you attempt to berate people like me who see, Later Day, and believe it must be Mormon and discount the worth of reading beyond that.


The words "latter days" appears 12 times in the KJV.

Are we to assume that the KJV is corrupt because it has these words in it?


 
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Aug 20, 2014
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#12
Show us where Jesus Christ teaches the gift of eternal life is temporary. Word for word in scripture.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#13
Show us where Jesus Christ teaches the gift of eternal life is temporary. Word for word in scripture.
That's another OSAS straw man argument. The Scriptures are the divinely inspired words of God (Christ); And Scripture and Jesus do not teach a doctrine of immorality whereby you could sin and still be saved. You won't find that teaching in your Bible. Sorry.

As I pointed out before. You have to have the Son to have life or eternal life. Eternal life is an exclusive property of God (Christ). No Jesus. No salvation (eternal life). For the Scriptures say that God alone possesses imortality.
 
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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#14
This reminds me of the faulty presuppositional statement made by OSAS proponents about how a believer cannot be "unborn." At first glance, the statement that one cannot be "unborn" as a defense for "Once Saved Always Saved" appears to be one of the most puzzling arguments presented. But it is a completely illogical assertion for even in the natural, there is no such condition as being "unborn".

However, being born is the process whereby life is made manifest. The opposite of having life is not to be "unborn", but to be "dead." Just as one dies physically when life is no longer present, one also dies spiritually when the life of Christ is no longer present within.

This truth is reiterated in the parable of the Prodigal Son. When the son returns from his rebellious, riotous living, the father states:

"For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found." (Luke 15:11-24)

For the argument about being "unborn" is a strawman. No one is asserting that someone can be "unborn." However, being separated from the life of Christ will result in "spiritual death" (this is discussed in more detail here).

Another correlation some attempt to make is that the spiritual new birth is a reflection of the physical birth. They say, "No matter what I do or how I disappoint him, my earthly father is always my father and I will always be his son. It is the same with God." Therefore, they claim that - just like your physical genetic relationships cannot be undone - neither can your spiritual relationships.

The problem with this assertion is that our relationship with God as His sons and daughters is not based on a us being His physical children. We are not children of God by natural birth, but by spiritual adoption through faith.

"For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith." (1 John 5:4)

So, if our faith is what determines our relationship with God, the question becomes, "Can the foundation of one's faith change?"

We can draw back from faith:
"Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him." (Hebrews 10:38)

Faith can be overthrown:
"Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some." (2 Timothy 2:18)

You can cast off your faith:
"Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith." (1 Timothy 5:12)

One's faith can be put away and made shipwrecked:
"Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck." (1 Timothy 1:19)

In any event, I hope this helps.

May God's love shine upon you.

With loving kindness to you in Christ:

Sincerely,

~Jason.



...

Source Used:
http://thelatterdays.blogspot.com/20...be-unborn.html
So is a lost christian to be born again-again? Or once a christian loses their salvation there is no forgiveness?
 
Aug 20, 2014
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#15
I see you choose to ignore my request. I have to say of all the self-righteous false doctrine heretics I've read you've surpassed them all with that first paragraph. You are absolutely out of your depth and clearly know nothing of salvation of Christ Jesus to even formulate an argument like that. It's obscene.

May God have mercy on your soul.
Please leave my thread. I've reported your post.


That's another OSAS straw man argument. The Scriptures are the divinely inspired words of God (Christ); And Scripture and Jesus do not teach a doctrine of immorality whereby you could sin and still be saved. You won't find that teaching in your Bible. Sorry.

As I pointed out before. You have to have the Son to have life or eternal life. Eternal life is an exclusive property of God (Christ). No Jesus. No salvation (eternal life). For the Scriptures say that God alone possesses imortality.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#16
So is a lost christian to be born again-again? Or once a christian loses their salvation there is no forgiveness?
More like renewed back to the faith. James 5:19-20 speaks about this. It says if anyone who errs from the Truth and converts him (i.e. saves him), we are to let the person know who converts the sinner from the error of their ways shall save a soul from death and will covered a multitude of sins. This is done by getting a backslidden believer to repent of their wicked ways and come back to the body of believers and have fellowship again.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#17
I see you choose to ignore my request. I have to say of all the self-righteous false doctrine heretics I've read you've surpassed them all with that first paragraph. You are absolutely out of your depth and clearly know nothing of salvation of Christ Jesus to even formulate an argument like that. It's obscene.

May God have mercy on your soul.
Please leave my thread. I've reported your post.
It's not ignoring your request. You are trying to re-write the Bible to make it say something you think it should exactly say (or it is not true). In other words, some Anti-Trinitarians would wrongfully argue why would Jesus make it sound like He is not God when He asks his disciples, "why do you call me good?" In other words, it is not in what we would prefer the Bible to say that determines truth.

However, make no mistake, though; The Bible makes clear that you cannot sin and still be saved. Can you prove to me in the Bible that teaches such a doctrine?

On the contrary, we learn in Scripture that Peter identifies false prophets as having eyes full of adultery who cannot cease from sin (2 Peter 2:1, 14); And Paul says this,

"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was."​

Yet, the OSAS proponent teaches they can be lovers of their own selves and commit all manner of sins as shown above and still be saved. The only major Christian group that I know of who promotes this type of lifestyle is the OSAS proponent.
 
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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#18
More like renewed back to the faith. James 5:19-20 speaks about this. It says if anyone who errs from the Truth and converts him (i.e. saves him), we are to let the person know who converts the sinner from the error of their ways shall save a soul from death and will covered a multitude of sins. This is done by getting a backslidden believer to repent of their wicked ways and come back to the body of believers and have fellowship again.
So a lost Christian can be 'renewed' back to the faith.
What makes one go from a 'lost' christian abled to be 'renewed' back and a 'lost' Christian who loses their salvation permanently?
Scriptural support please.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#19
So a lost Christian can be 'renewed' back to the faith.
What makes one go from a 'lost' christian abled to be 'renewed' back and a 'lost' Christian who loses their salvation permanently? Scriptural support please.
Now, do not misunderstand me, believers cannot lose their salvation (like when a person accidentally loses their car keys), but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,

Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:














And here is a list of potential fallen believers:



  • Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)





  • Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)



  • The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back
    (James 5:19, 20)

For Jesus is the Light and we are to shine the Light of Christ within our lives. For there are those who think they can serve Jesus and also live for oneself, sin, and evil; But this is wrong, though. "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God" (John 3:20-21).
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#20
Jesus will never leave us nor forsake us. However, if we choose to walk away from Jesus, the Lord is not going to force His love upon you. God is not in the business of "forced love." Such a concept goes against the basic concept of true love.

Forced Love:


Now, if you believe in "Eternal Security" or "OSAS" (Once Saved Always Saved) you believe God saves you and that there is nothing you could ever do that could jeopardize your standing with Him. That once you accept God, you are then forced into a relationship that you can't break out of. You are trapped. Your free will is no longer. You can't leave. Once you check in, you can't check out. God has forced His love upon you because of your one choice to believe in Him for your salvation.

Such a notion sounds absolutely ridiculous. But this is what you must believe if your a proponent of "Eternal Security". I mean, have you ever watched one of those movies about a girl who had a crush on a guy, which quickly turned into a forceful or twisted relationship? You know, the movie where boy meets girl, but the boy loses interest, yet the girl doesn't and therefore she forces her love upon him. So things get pretty dark and twisted. This is exactly what proponents of "Eternal Security" have done with God. They have made God out to be this woman who had forced her love upon a man who didn't want her love anymore.

In fact, do you remember the story of David and Bathsheba? David wanted to keep the forbidden love of another man's wife. So he forced a relationship of what he believed to be love by killing her husband (Uriah) so he could be with her in the way that he wanted (or loved). Veritably, there is no doubt in my mind that David might have even loved Bathsheba. However, it was not a love that was his. So David tried to force love in a way that was not natural or good (by permanently eliminating the will of another) (2 Samuel 11:1-27). For that is exactly what "Eternal Security" does. It sets up a loving relationship as if it was something that had to be forced. That once you are saved, you are always saved (no matter what you do or even if you change your mind). Such a notion goes against all logic of what we know about free will and true love.