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Here is easy believism & lordship in one set of verses:
Luke 6:46-49 (KJV) [SUP]46 [/SUP]And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? (easy believism) [SUP]47 [/SUP]Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them,(Lordship) I will shew you to whom he is like: [SUP]48 [/SUP]He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. [SUP]49 [/SUP]But he that heareth, and doeth not,(easy believism) is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
Luke 6:46-49 (KJV) [SUP]46 [/SUP]And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? (easy believism) [SUP]47 [/SUP]Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them,(Lordship) I will shew you to whom he is like: [SUP]48 [/SUP]He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. [SUP]49 [/SUP]But he that heareth, and doeth not,(easy believism) is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
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J
There are many Bible verses about obedience, the death of the old man, being born again a new man who walks in the light, who no longer practices sin. We have James clear that faith without any works is dead, that is, you say you believe in Christ, you say you love Him, you call Him Lord, yet you still live for the carnal world, no evidence of being a Christian in your behavior and deeds, no improvement under the guidance of the Holy Spirit progressing in your life? You believe in Jesus, looking at your watch in church on Sundays, yearning to get with the beer and football, paying a sop, to what, your "get out of hell free card" that, if anything, mocks the blood of Jesus Christ, dishonors your God? We have the Laodicean church, spewed out of the Lord's mouth. We have the religious saying, "Lord, Lord, didn't we <this and that> for you?", and the Lord saying, "I never knew you." We have rebuke of those that honor with their lips, but their hearts far from God. We have the man who didn't use his one talent in the parable of the talents being sent to damnation. The Bible is replete with warnings about lip service or lukewarm faith, teaches of entering into a life of obedience to the Lord, and teaches the gate is narrow and there are few who find it, not hoards who just touched their TV set at the end of a Billy Graham crusade and walked away to life as usual after a week or less, just sure mouthing some words sealed the deal. And I am a witness to knowing more people who go to church every Sunday and practice sin in-between, not a mention of Jesus or cracking a Bible, than those faithful. A lot of churchy people are on their way straight to hell, if you believe the plain and clear word of God in Bible, who is not mocked.
I'm not going to copy and paste half the Bible here, rather say two things:
1. Easy believism will land you straight in hell, make no mistake, the Bible does not teach this, by any stretch.
2. You'd better study this well in the Bible yourself, if you don't believe it, if you think God is mocked by people that pay Him lip service and have the same confession of Jesus the demons also make.
I'm not going to copy and paste half the Bible here, rather say two things:
1. Easy believism will land you straight in hell, make no mistake, the Bible does not teach this, by any stretch.
2. You'd better study this well in the Bible yourself, if you don't believe it, if you think God is mocked by people that pay Him lip service and have the same confession of Jesus the demons also make.
R
from my experience most people commenting on lordship salvation won't even know what it actually is...lots of people just assume it means jesus has to be lord of your life and that you have to put your faith into action...but that isn't actually what lordship salvation is...
'lordship salvation' is actually a very specific term for a legalistic mutation of calvinism... in practice it means that your works have to measure up to someone's arbitrary standard of righteousness in order for you to be considered one of those that God has predestined...if your works don't meet the standard of the lordship salvation preacher...then they tend to strongly insinuate that you are probably predestined for hell...
lordship salvation appeals mainly to self righteous people with calvinist leanings...for others it often results in a similar internal torment to what martin luther went through...whereas before discovering the pure gospel luther was never sure if his works were enough to merit salvation...a person stuck under lordship salvation teaching can end up never being sure if their works were enough to confirm their predestination...
'lordship salvation' is actually a very specific term for a legalistic mutation of calvinism... in practice it means that your works have to measure up to someone's arbitrary standard of righteousness in order for you to be considered one of those that God has predestined...if your works don't meet the standard of the lordship salvation preacher...then they tend to strongly insinuate that you are probably predestined for hell...
lordship salvation appeals mainly to self righteous people with calvinist leanings...for others it often results in a similar internal torment to what martin luther went through...whereas before discovering the pure gospel luther was never sure if his works were enough to merit salvation...a person stuck under lordship salvation teaching can end up never being sure if their works were enough to confirm their predestination...
W
This nails it pretty well;
What is easy believism?
What is easy believism?
J
This is true. I know what easy believism is, and the difference between Christ being one's Savior and also being one's Lord, in truth. Is this "Lordship Salvation" some Baskin Robbins flavor if "ism" then? (Please, I'm not asking all the details of this "ism" myself, soliciting this.)
There's something I'd like to mention in this regard off topic, which has been a HUGE blessing in my life, which is actually not to pursue all the doctrines of error out there. I even see somebody who's teaching error on a message board and stop reading most of their post(s), as nobody without spiritual eyes to see has anything more to teach me than philosophy in a novel: I'd rather read a novel than a message board, in that case, message board fiction often in broken English.
The same is true of learning what all the cults believe in any detail, only really know what I generally wished to know about them or happened to catch, but care what's on each page of the Catechism or in the Watchtower, or Herbert Armstrong's British-Israelism? I have the latter's book on this, shortly spotted error and just quite reading it. I have better books, by better theologians, to read, where I don't have to pick through garbage! Time spent pursuing some rabbit hole of error could better be spent in the truth.
I actually believe you can clutter your brain with garbage that can effect your thinking in a negative way by the introduction of that clutter, know this to be true of professional pursuits outside theology: you concentrate on what is good and what works, throw out that which is not good and does not work, no sense to even document the garbage. Math or physics books are not filled with failed equations and operations for the student to learn. So, as for me, I really couldn't care less about being an expert on any "ism" out there, any more than knowing each god of the Hindus, and this has helped me keep a focus on what is useful, what works. There are also countless more pages of error out there in books which are of no profit in the end, as the Bible is profitable and a handful of gifted theologians' commentaries. One could waste their entire life learning everything off the reservation, when a life is required to get just some "through a glass darkly" knowledge of God's truth. See what I mean? Also, if just presenting the word of God is rejected, and there are those who wish to believe a lie and argue against truth, by your also wallowing in their error, is this going to open any eyes, when spiritual eyes are a gift of the Holy Spirit, in the first place?! Is anybody going to debate anybody else into heaven or hell?
Maybe just taking a walk away from wallowing in some things unprofitable would help some people here, also, if only a better and more spiritual use of their time. Also, again, my experience with how at least my mind works is, "garbage in, garbage out." I try not to buy a bag of potatoes with rotten ones in it, so why would I want to buy rotten thoughts?
Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
There's something I'd like to mention in this regard off topic, which has been a HUGE blessing in my life, which is actually not to pursue all the doctrines of error out there. I even see somebody who's teaching error on a message board and stop reading most of their post(s), as nobody without spiritual eyes to see has anything more to teach me than philosophy in a novel: I'd rather read a novel than a message board, in that case, message board fiction often in broken English.
The same is true of learning what all the cults believe in any detail, only really know what I generally wished to know about them or happened to catch, but care what's on each page of the Catechism or in the Watchtower, or Herbert Armstrong's British-Israelism? I have the latter's book on this, shortly spotted error and just quite reading it. I have better books, by better theologians, to read, where I don't have to pick through garbage! Time spent pursuing some rabbit hole of error could better be spent in the truth.
I actually believe you can clutter your brain with garbage that can effect your thinking in a negative way by the introduction of that clutter, know this to be true of professional pursuits outside theology: you concentrate on what is good and what works, throw out that which is not good and does not work, no sense to even document the garbage. Math or physics books are not filled with failed equations and operations for the student to learn. So, as for me, I really couldn't care less about being an expert on any "ism" out there, any more than knowing each god of the Hindus, and this has helped me keep a focus on what is useful, what works. There are also countless more pages of error out there in books which are of no profit in the end, as the Bible is profitable and a handful of gifted theologians' commentaries. One could waste their entire life learning everything off the reservation, when a life is required to get just some "through a glass darkly" knowledge of God's truth. See what I mean? Also, if just presenting the word of God is rejected, and there are those who wish to believe a lie and argue against truth, by your also wallowing in their error, is this going to open any eyes, when spiritual eyes are a gift of the Holy Spirit, in the first place?! Is anybody going to debate anybody else into heaven or hell?
Maybe just taking a walk away from wallowing in some things unprofitable would help some people here, also, if only a better and more spiritual use of their time. Also, again, my experience with how at least my mind works is, "garbage in, garbage out." I try not to buy a bag of potatoes with rotten ones in it, so why would I want to buy rotten thoughts?
Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
K
That could be true in some cases, but not others.
I for one believe with the lordship salvation, but disagree with Calvinism/osas.
I believe that when you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior you are to express and show your love for Him by your actions. The scriptures say people will know the true followers of Jesus by their actions.
Then Stephen63 showed scripture from Luke 6:46-49 where our Lord Jesus says that why do some call Him Lord, but do not do what He said.
Some limit it down to easy believism by just quoting the verses that say believe and you will be saved, but those who do this fail to understand what it means to believe.
I for one believe with the lordship salvation, but disagree with Calvinism/osas.
I believe that when you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior you are to express and show your love for Him by your actions. The scriptures say people will know the true followers of Jesus by their actions.
Then Stephen63 showed scripture from Luke 6:46-49 where our Lord Jesus says that why do some call Him Lord, but do not do what He said.
Some limit it down to easy believism by just quoting the verses that say believe and you will be saved, but those who do this fail to understand what it means to believe.
J
Being simple minded as to all the "isms" out there I've ignored and never studied, this what I'll die believing, naturally it also simple. (I do take great stock in rationality and common sense having more merit than stacks of books.) If one is your LORD, your KING, and you claim to love Him for who He is, claim to be allied to Him and a subject under that King, you obey Him. If you don't obey Him, don't actually recognize His office over you to be obedient, He's not really your Lord. That's all.
B
We have been given, without a doubt, a salvation that is by grace through faith in the finished work of Christ. If any man who believes and is justified by grace through faith has to do a single act, deed or work to remain justified or to prove that he has been justified then this man's salvation is not by grace nor according to God's mercy and he has not received it by faith through the accomplishment of Christ. What in the world do some of you think Jesus meant when He said in (Mt 11:28-30)...
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me (not the works of the law); for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy (fit useful and manageable), and my burden is light (easy to be borne).
For goodness sake what do you think it means in (Col 2:10-12) to be complete in Christ...
10 And ye are complete (rendered of full measure and perfect) in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me (not the works of the law); for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy (fit useful and manageable), and my burden is light (easy to be borne).
For goodness sake what do you think it means in (Col 2:10-12) to be complete in Christ...
10 And ye are complete (rendered of full measure and perfect) in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
J
Here is where easy believism falls apart. If you are a new man, born of the Holy Spirit, you take on the traits of a new man. The issue is not works saving, the issue is rather that there are some things lip service believers can't fake, like authentic, obedient faith that transforms. You believe that faith in the Lord Jesus is some lip service, coming forward at a Billy Graham crusade for a "get out of hell free" card, then absolutely nothing else follows? Please, people, read your Bibles: this "faith" is not in there. You do not walk in the light of the Lord and the Holy Spirit, you're a fraud. Fruitless? Into the fire! Again, folks, read the Bible, the whole word of God. There are many verses, because salvation is not just lip service, magic words.
Not sure what the difference is between the two, but my thought on faith without works is dead would go something like this.
God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son and Abraham obeyed and while the knife was raised to plunge it into his son the Lord stopped him. Abraham had faith in the Lord, he listened and obeyed.
Jesus obeyed God all the way to the cross. He could have called 10,000 angels as the song says but Jesus chose to put His faith in His Father and stayed on the cross until He died and was our sacrifice.
God prompted me to give someone a Bible - I listened and obeyed as I had faith God knew why He was asking me to do so - that person is now reading the Bible.
None of these examples are legalistic but faith based and obeyed with action taken in each case showing love to God.
God asks us to obey 10 rules (commandments) why can't we use our faith and trust that God knows what He is doing with that request....sometimes I just don't get it.....Faith, trust and obey will show the fruits of love to God and our fellow man.
God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son and Abraham obeyed and while the knife was raised to plunge it into his son the Lord stopped him. Abraham had faith in the Lord, he listened and obeyed.
Jesus obeyed God all the way to the cross. He could have called 10,000 angels as the song says but Jesus chose to put His faith in His Father and stayed on the cross until He died and was our sacrifice.
God prompted me to give someone a Bible - I listened and obeyed as I had faith God knew why He was asking me to do so - that person is now reading the Bible.
None of these examples are legalistic but faith based and obeyed with action taken in each case showing love to God.
God asks us to obey 10 rules (commandments) why can't we use our faith and trust that God knows what He is doing with that request....sometimes I just don't get it.....Faith, trust and obey will show the fruits of love to God and our fellow man.
R
if you disagree with calvinism then you don't believe in 'lordship salvation'...
like i said earlier...'lordship salvation' is a -specific term- that refers to a particular form of calvinism...you may believe jesus christ is the lord of your life and that your life must reflect christ's lordship...but unless you are a calvinist your beliefs are -not- 'lordship salvation' doctrine...
like i said earlier...'lordship salvation' is a -specific term- that refers to a particular form of calvinism...you may believe jesus christ is the lord of your life and that your life must reflect christ's lordship...but unless you are a calvinist your beliefs are -not- 'lordship salvation' doctrine...
B
God has made salvation very easy for sinners to believe, for the work that needed to be done for sinners to be justified before God was accomplished by the Son. Now we can come to the Father through the Son and what He did on the cross for sinners. There is no effort or striving through any work that must be accomplished by man for man to believe. He must come by faith and trust the work of the cross and when he does he is made righteous by faith. How much easier can God make it for sinners to be saved and cleansed from all sin?
J
1 John 3:7-9 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Revelation 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
1 John 1:6-7 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
John 4:24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.
Titus 1:16 They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work.
Revelation 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of my mouth.
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Revelation 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
1 John 1:6-7 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
John 4:24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.
Titus 1:16 They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work.
Revelation 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of my mouth.
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
K
That is not true, lordship salvation means you accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and do as He told us to do. If you don't follow Jesus words then you will not get or will lose salvation.
Calvinism says that once you accept Jesus, no matter what you do you will not lose salvation, and that you only have to believe in Him but not do what He says.