Here is another passage for the law/sabbath keepers to explain away........

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
P

phil112

Guest
#1
John 15:12 "This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you."
Romans 13:8 "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law."

Christ fulfilled the law, and when we love one another we also fulfill it. What does fulfilled mean?

4137 NT - Greek[pleroo]
pleroo play-ro'-ofrom [plhrhV] - pleres 4134; to make replete, i.e. (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (aperiod or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.:--accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.

If you are applying the law to your life, it hasn't done it's job, which is to bring you to love.
 
Sep 10, 2013
1,428
19
0
#2
We have the council of Jerusalem (Acts ch. 15) that clearly decrees we are no longer under the Law.
 
Aug 20, 2014
771
7
0
#3
Is there anything in the new testament that commands new covenant faithful not to recognize sabbath?
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
#4
John 15:12 "This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you."
Romans 13:8 "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law."

Christ fulfilled the law, and when we love one another we also fulfill it. What does fulfilled mean?

4137 NT - Greek[pleroo]
pleroo play-ro'-ofrom [plhrhV] - pleres 4134; to make replete, i.e. (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (aperiod or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.:--accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.

If you are applying the law to your life, it hasn't done it's job, which is to bring you to love.
If you're right I will have to deny Deuteronomy 6:1-6, and Leviticus 19:15-18 so I can love you God's way. Am I right?

"Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it: That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged . Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey. Hear , O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. 6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:"

"Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour. Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD. Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. Thou shalt not avenge , nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD."

"For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." Romans 6:14

How does one fix this seeming conundrum?
 
Last edited:

LEPIDUS

Senior Member
May 15, 2012
457
10
18
#5
This is part of a post I made in another thread. I just copied and paste, don't mind the boldness, caps etc.

Matthew 22:


37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”


Do you know why it says Love your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all you mind?


IF YOU DON'T LOVE HIM HOW HE WANTS US TOO, YOU WOULD NOT KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS THAT HAVE TO DO WITH HIM


Do you know why it says love you neighbor as yourself ?


IF YOU DON'T LOVE THEM AS YOURSELF YOU WOULD NOT KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS THAT HAVE TO DO WITH OTHERS


Do you understand what, "ON THESE TWO DEPEND THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS," MEANS?


de·pend
diˈpend/Submit
verb
1.
be controlled or determined by.
"differences in earnings depended on a wide variety of factors"
synonyms: be contingent on, be conditional on, be dependent on, hinge on, hang on, rest on, rely on; be decided by
"her career depends on a good reference"
2.
rely on.
"the kind of person you could depend on"

The commandments having to do with God


I am the LORD thy God
Thou shalt have no other gods
No graven images or likenesses
Not take the LORD's name in vain
Remember the sabbath day

The commandments having to do with others

Honour thy father and thy mother
Thou shalt not kill
Thou shalt not commit adultery
Thou shalt not steal
Thou shalt not bear false witness
Thou shalt not covet

Following the commandments, rely on us loving God and our neighbors like he wants us too.
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
#6
John 15:12 "This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you."
Romans 13:8 "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law."

Christ fulfilled the law, and when we love one another we also fulfill it. What does fulfilled mean?

4137 NT - Greek[pleroo]
pleroo play-ro'-ofrom [plhrhV] - pleres 4134; to make replete, i.e. (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (aperiod or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.:--accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.

If you are applying the law to your life, it hasn't done it's job, which is to bring you to love.
How do we fix this conundrum?
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid : yea, we establish the law. Romans 3:31
 
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
182
0
#7
John 15:12 "This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you."
Romans 13:8 "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law."

Christ fulfilled the law, and when we love one another we also fulfill it. What does fulfilled mean?

4137 NT - Greek[pleroo]
pleroo play-ro'-ofrom [plhrhV] - pleres 4134; to make replete, i.e. (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (aperiod or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.:--accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.

If you are applying the law to your life, it hasn't done it's job, which is to bring you to love.
All of these truths of the Lord are proving that all truths the Lord gives us are one, God is eternal. It is also proving that with all your posts expressing lack of love for your brothers and sisters in Christ but only judging and condemning them, you need Christ. Also your expressing the lack of love for God's law, all law expressing God's love for us, how to love each other, and how to love the Lord above all other things, expresses that you need Christ.

The law is not all things as Christ is all, love is all, God is all. But using the truth that the law doesn't include all things of the Lord means we can get rid of something of the Lord is using the law in an absolutely wrong way. Using the law to achieve salvation would be wrong, but saying the law is wrong is also absolutely wrong.
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
#8
This is what Paul said about his beliefs concerning the law after writing to numerous Gentile people who were being compelled to live according to the law by the understanding of others. So to preempt his statement in Acts I will quote some other scriptures that are clearly seen (and misunderstood) as anti-law. When the law is misunderstood, we have no alternative but to repent and look at it in a different way through faith, or not repent and throw it away by using Christ as our excuse.

Ephesians 2:14-16
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby :

So what was abolished? Was it the law of commandments contained in ordinances along with the enmity? Or was the enmity slain because the law is abolished?

Now because Paul wrote the above scriptures, is what he said next a contradiction?

Acts 24:12-14
12 And they neither found me in the temple disputing with any man, neither raising up the people , neither in the synagogues, nor in the city:
13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.
14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Did Paul beleive in something that he said was abolished. I hope this is good for edifying conversation.
 
Last edited:
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
#9
We have the council of Jerusalem (Acts ch. 15) that clearly decrees we are no longer under the Law.
The law is unmovable, just as God doesn't change, but we are made to move and change.
James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up .

When this humility happens we are moved out from underneath the condemnation of the law, but the law is still here casue they are the words of God that every man shall live by. Jesus confirmed that to Satan when He was temped in the wilderness. All three times that He was confronted by Satan He quoted the law.
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
#10
Is there anything in the new testament that commands new covenant faithful not to recognize sabbath?
I've seen the principles of the Sabbath written in the book of Hebrews Chapter 4.
1 Let us therefore fear , lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it .
2 For unto us was the gospel preached , as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said , As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein , and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said , To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest , then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

What is written is rest in the present and future tense, not past laws of the Sabbath that no longer apply. We should not wrest with the rest.:)
 
Last edited:
Aug 20, 2014
771
7
0
#11
I've seen the principles of the Sabbath written in the book of Hebrews Chapter 4.
1 Let us therefore fear , lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it .
2 For unto us was the gospel preached , as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said , As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein , and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said , To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest , then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

What is written is rest in the present and future tense, not past laws of the Sabbath that no longer apply. We should not wrest with the rest.:)
True. ;) Sunset Friday unto Sunset Saturday is sabbath day. 9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
 
Aug 20, 2014
771
7
0
#14
Jesus was a Jew. The Sabbath, if we are to recognize that as Christians, occupies our contemporary calendar according to the tradition of those who initiated it in the name and spirit of God. The Jews.
 
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
182
0
#15
There are two separate ways of understanding the truths scripture gives us: with the mind of Christ or with the fleshly mind.

The mind of the flesh says oh!! This is the truth. So they learn something like that the law won't save. It becomes the only truth of God, all other truth is subject to this truth in the mind of the flesh.

The mind of the Lord says Oh!! Scripture gives us many truths, all are truth, all must work together. It is true the law won't save, it is true the law is holy. The mind of Christ says what the Lord tells us is from the Lord, I will see how both can be true and how they can work together.

Scripture tells us what law is supreme over everything else, that everything stems from that. With the mind of Christ, we see how it can work together with everything else of truth.
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
#16
Jesus was a Jew. The Sabbath, if we are to recognize that as Christians, occupies our contemporary calendar according to the tradition of those who initiated it in the name and spirit of God. The Jews.
I have studied much about that, looking on the Internet trying to find information about feasts and all with Hebrew leap years etc. The Gregorian calendar is close to the new moons and all but in my research I have found discrepancies according to modern day Jewish traditions in comparison to the KJV Bible. This is due to the Hebrew leap years. An example, Jewish tradition holds many feast of memorable events like Esther and her uncle Mordecai. That is not a feast ordained by God, but is certainly a memorable event to the Hebrews. There are really only 3 feasts throughout the year that God commanded the Hebrews to observe. This is not to refute anything you have said, cause I don't. It's just for the enhancing of conversation.
 
B

biscuit

Guest
#17
[TABLE="width: 0"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 633, align: left"][TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="width: 593, align: left"][h=1]Does God require Sabbath-keeping of Christians?[/h]
Question: "Does God require Sabbath-keeping of Christians?"

Answer:
In Colossians 2:16-17, the apostle Paul declares, “Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.” Similarly, Romans 14:5 states, “One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.” These Scriptures make it clear that, for the Christian, Sabbath-keeping is a matter of spiritual freedom, not a command from God. Sabbath-keeping is an issue on which God’s Word instructs us not to judge each other. Sabbath-keeping is a matter about which each Christian needs to be fully convinced in his/her own mind.

In the early chapters of the book of Acts, the first Christians were predominantly Jews. When Gentiles began to receive the gift of salvation through Jesus Christ, the Jewish Christians had a dilemma. What aspects of the Mosaic Law and Jewish tradition should Gentile Christians be instructed to obey? The apostles met and discussed the issue in the Jerusalem council (Acts 15). The decision was, “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood” (Acts 15:19-20). Sabbath-keeping was not one of the commands the apostles felt was necessary to force on Gentile believers. It is inconceivable that the apostles would neglect to include Sabbath-keeping if it was God’s command for Christians to observe the Sabbath day.

A common error in the Sabbath-keeping debate is the concept that the Sabbath was the day of worship. Groups such as the Seventh Day Adventists hold that God requires the church service to be held on Saturday, the Sabbath day. That is not what the Sabbath command was. The Sabbath command was to do no work on the Sabbath day (Exodus 20:8-11). Nowhere in Scripture is the Sabbath day commanded to be the day of worship. Yes, Jews in Old Testament, New Testament, and modern times use Saturday as the day of worship, but that is not the essence of the Sabbath command. In the book of Acts, whenever a meeting is said to be on the Sabbath, it is a meeting of Jews and/or Gentile converts to Judaism, not Christians.

When did the early Christians meet? Acts 2:46-47 gives us the answer, “Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.” If there was a day that Christians met regularly, it was the first day of the week (our Sunday), not the Sabbath day (our Saturday) (Acts 20:7; 1 Corinthians 16:2). In honor of Christ’s resurrection on Sunday, the early Christians observed Sunday not as the “Christian Sabbath” but as a day to especially worship Jesus Christ.

Is there anything wrong with worshipping on Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath? Absolutely not! We should worship God every day, not just on Saturday or Sunday! Many churches today have both Saturday and Sunday services. There is freedom in Christ (Romans 8:21;2 Corinthians 3:17; Galatians 5:1). Should a Christian practice Sabbath-keeping, that is, not working on Saturdays? If a Christian feels led to do so, absolutely, yes (Romans 14:5). However, those who choose to practice Sabbath-keeping should not judge those who do not keep the Sabbath (Colossians 2:16). Further, those who do not keep the Sabbath should avoid being a stumbling block (1 Corinthians 8:9) to those who do keep the Sabbath. Galatians 5:13-15 sums up the whole issue: “You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. The entire law is summed up in a single command: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.”

Recommended Resources: The End of the Law: Mosaic Covenant in Pauline Theology by Jason Meyer and Logos Bible Software.

[HR][/HR]
[HR][/HR]
[HR][/HR]
Return to:

GotQuestions.org Home


Does God require Sabbath-keeping of Christians?​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 1, align: right"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 1, align: right"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 20, align: right"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 181, align: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
Aug 20, 2014
771
7
0
#18
I have studied much about that, looking on the Internet trying to find information about feasts and all with Hebrew leap years etc. The Gregorian calendar is close to the new moons and all but in my research I have found discrepancies according to modern day Jewish traditions in comparison to the KJV Bible. This is due to the Hebrew leap years. An example, Jewish tradition holds many feast of memorable events like Esther and her uncle Mordecai. That is not a feast ordained by God, but is certainly a memorable event to the Hebrews. There are really only 3 feasts throughout the year that God commanded the Hebrews to observe. This is not to refute anything you have said, cause I don't. It's just for the enhancing of conversation.
No problem. I enjoy the discussion we're having.

Did you read the link I posted before?
[TABLE="width: 411"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: TextObject, width: 382, colspan: 3"] The Jewish Calendar

[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 6"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: TextObject, width: 383, colspan: 4"] Mindfulness of the Divine Rhythm
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 6"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: TextObject, width: 335, colspan: 3"]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
Sep 10, 2013
1,428
19
0
#19
The law is unmovable, just as God doesn't change, but we are made to move and change.
James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up .
When this humility happens we are moved out from underneath the condemnation of the law, but the law is still here casue they are the words of God that every man shall live by. Jesus confirmed that to Satan when He was temped in the wilderness. All three times that He was confronted by Satan He quoted the law.
...so you bring sacrifices to the temple, are circumcised and eat kosher?
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
#20
No problem. I enjoy the discussion we're having.

Did you read the link I posted before?
[TABLE="width: 411"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: TextObject, width: 382, colspan: 3"]The Jewish Calendar[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 6"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: TextObject, width: 383, colspan: 4"]Mindfulness of the Divine Rhythm[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 6"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: TextObject, width: 335, colspan: 3"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
So far so good. That's why Passover is actually the 15th beginning the feast of unleavened bread, even thought the lamb was slain on the 14th.
During the time of Hezekiah the clock was made by putting a ball in the center of a string strung along a bowl. Simple terms depending on the time of year the following would apply. When the sun went backwards 10 degrees that calculates out to be 2/3rds of an hour. 40 represents the time of testing.

Continuing, Sabbath is attached to the prayer Jesus taught His Disciples. "Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors."
The year 5775 is coming up 2015
I'm a little unhappy that the article says that there are 4 new years during the year. That's not Biblical.
Up until that point the article is very good and accurate from what I have studied.
 
Last edited: