re Christian Preachers charging for money - looking for biblical advice

[Ambi3333]

The bible tells us
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
Matthew verse 10
I understand that Luke 10:7, as well as I Timothy 5:18 implys , "the laborer is worth of his wages," but
Jesus never charged people to hear his word, why should we?
Is the word, or a mssage from God only available to the rich?
Is charging x $ not a big middle finger and an unwelcome jesture to those who are struggling financially that is a huge amount to some families.
If a person is in a close enough relationship with our Almighty God to be in a position to preach, Shouldn't they be trusting in God to provide for them? - Ie through a donation offered at the start/end of preaching - therefore trusting in God to provide and not excluding the poor. - as God uses us for Good, he would tell individuals how much to give, but noone feels or is financially excluded from the word of God, yet that person/people are trusting in God to provide for them - which he will.
Reading the new testiment I cannot find 1 example of any charging to hear the word, rather accepting blessings and offers - ie accepting what God is providing for them


How as a church, as servants of God can we financially exclude people from hearing Gods message? and charge directly for the Word of God? The word of God is for all people - it doesnt make people feel welcome being told, this teaching about/from God you have to pay x pounds fo. It excludes the most vunrable and the people most in need to hear the message from God. By offering up a donation or by being paid directly by the church (via tithes) the preachers, serving God are trusting in God to provide, and it doesnt exclude anyone, regardless of financial status, from hearing the word.


My understanding of the scriptures is not great, so I stand to be corrected, and welcome a different viewpoint? Just morarly I cant understand this at the moment but am open to scripture saying otherwise? I am here to learn and develop my relationship with Christ. This is an issue that I have struggled with for a long time

 

[Joidevivre]

If pastors stood on corners, they probably would not charge. Unfortunately, the buildings they meet in have upkeep or rent and some pastors work full time ministering all week to those sick or having problems in their congregation. And these same pastors often have families to provide for. If there is no money given to them from donations taken weekly, they would still preach. They usually trust God, not money. And all people are welcome in their churches, even the poor with no money.

Someone else on this thread will probably pick up on the benefits of tithing. We are not under a law to do so, but are told to give as we feel led by the Holy Spirit to give. Not grudgingly, but generously and cheerfully. Even the one who gives to support the ministry work is also trusting God by not holding on to all of his income.

We don't tithe to get things from God, we tithe to learn the spiritual growth that comes when we don't hold on to money for our security. And God honors our trust in him. And we tithe to share in the ministry of the gospel. And to help support those who preach it.

So getting back to your question, who is charging people to hear the word of God? Is there such a church where they won't let the poor person in? I haven't seen one yet. And any church that makes you feel guilty because you don't give money is not one I would be a part of.

 

[Ambi3333]

Thankyou for the reply. I should clarify, that I feel it is right to tithe, it is right to give whatever God calls me to give, What I am struggling with is my church - and most evangelical churches I have visited or been a member of (I travel alot) Have all charged moneyt for perticular talks etc. I understand that the building costs money etc. But will God not provide without charging people to hear his message? Will the supposed preachers n0t trust in God and send a donation box round rather then charging people to come into the church (house of God, the people make up the bride of christ, how can we say oh my arm is not coming as it cant afford it) is this not consistent across modern cristianity or am I going to the wrong church

 

[kennethcadwell]

To me the scriptures that talk about if you preach the gospel you should live by the gospel, and the laborer is worth his wages does not mean financially.
To me I look at it in a spiritual context. If you preach the gospel which we all are called to share then you should live by it, meaning live by love and forgiveness. Then the laborer is worth his wages, well the scriptures say the wages of sin is death and those who obey the gospel has eternal life.

Romans 2:6-10
Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

 

[Yet]

Paul said ' we r not as some who corrupt(peddle, sell for money) the word of God. Paul told the elders in Acts 20 to work secular jobs. Proverbs 21:6 the getting of treasures by a lying tongue is a vanity tossed to and fro by them who love death.

We r to 'defile not the temple of God'. Defile:the Greek means to mislead. The temple is Gods people. We r not to mislead the people of God for profit.

But sad is that God said 'my people love it so'. The true ministers of God r the ones who 'refuse a gift', and refuse to be exalted into clerical upper position. Matt. 23 Jesus said the Gentiles have those that rule over them in upper positions, but it shall not be so among His own.

Every thing I just said is soundly rejected by most Christians. Strongholds are hard to break. Traditions of men make void His word. In other words, traditions dull the senses making void His word when read or hard to see.

 

[jkalyna]

The first church I attended was a South American/Ukrainian Church, that every service it was spanish songs, and Ukrainian, and many visitors came from all over South America. Every man worked. The pastor worked, and the church was in order. No one stood and made jokes through the time we were there, it was strickly from the word. What about Jim bakker, who talked about Jesus constantly, on T.V. people took their wedding bands, sold their homes, cashed in their entire life savings, just like those in the wilderness, took their rings, and earrings off to make a golden calf. That calf came back. Then he took that money, and make toilet handles, got*Royal Roych*cars*etc, and went to prison all the while preaching Jesus, singing Jesus, teaching Jesus, it's not about money, it never was, *Money is an invitation to temptation. Buying all these things, is not right before the Lord, and entertaining yourself on the money put in the offering is also not right in the LOrds eyes,*because*it then becomes love of money, that should be going to the poor and the orphans and widows, as the bible said, true faith, is that. It also says, if a man does not work, he has denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel. I've been in huge churches, one a ukrainian church, that was built by the men who attended there, huge, beautiful, and it is closed, on google saying, doors closed. All that money every month for the building fund, and no one goes anymore, they moved, etc. Churches should be out doors, where as Paul said, we don't want to be a burden upon you, it is not anyones*responsibility*to pay for someone's electric bill. It is a burden a*heaviness, and a task master. Jesus preached on the grass, on the hill sides, in the homes, he said, not one stone will be left in that temple, but in 3 days, a temple will be raised up. Let's go back to the right way, the way it was, no one want to do that, because they take advantage if they could of the people. Have church without putting strain on others, and condemnation, Jesus never took an*offering*at any of his services, he did the opposite, he feed them. But if you decide to go to a church, then as the scripture says, be respectful of those over you. I don't have to agree with any ones*philosophies*of religion, of their thoughts or points of views. We all have the Holy Spirit within us, who is our teacher, and the kingdom of God is within us, the word says. HOme churches, out door churches, tent churches, as Jesus did, in homes, and outdoors. That's not the only church closed, other's and in the Uk also, people don't want to feel*condemned of take on another mortage for someone,*and leave.

 

[Tintin]

Thankyou for the reply. I should clarify, that I feel it is right to tithe, it is right to give whatever God calls me to give, What I am struggling with is my church - and most evangelical churches I have visited or been a member of (I travel alot) Have all charged moneyt for perticular talks etc. I understand that the building costs money etc. But will God not provide without charging people to hear his message? Will the supposed preachers n0t trust in God and send a donation box round rather then charging people to come into the church (house of God, the people make up the bride of christ, how can we say oh my arm is not coming as it cant afford it) is this not consistent across modern cristianity or am I going to the wrong church

I don't know about talks but courses cost money. For the resources, the rights to do the course at one's church etc. It's not evil. People should get paid rightfully for the work they do.

 

[jkalyna]

If pastors stood on corners, they probably would not charge. Unfortunately, the buildings they meet in have upkeep or rent and some pastors work full time ministering all week to those sick or having problems in their congregation. And these same pastors often have families to provide for. If there is no money given to them from donations taken weekly, they would still preach. They usually trust God, not money. And all people are welcome in their churches, even the poor with no money.

Someone else on this thread will probably pick up on the benefits of tithing. We are not under a law to do so, but are told to give as we feel led by the Holy Spirit to give. Not grudgingly, but generously and cheerfully. Even the one who gives to support the ministry work is also trusting God by not holding on to all of his income.

We don't tithe to get things from God, we tithe to learn the spiritual growth that comes when we don't hold on to money for our security. And God honors our trust in him. And we tithe to share in the ministry of the gospel. And to help support those who preach it.

So getting back to your question, who is charging people to hear the word of God? Is there such a church where they won't let the poor person in? I haven't seen one yet. And any church that makes you feel guilty because you don't give money is not one I would be a part of.

Agreeing with that we give not to get something, then it's like a bribe, or a gamble game. Preachers shouldn't be tied up with the sick 24/7. There is a spiritual problem in that church is everyone iss sick. He should work, and other's step in as*associates*volunteers, as elders of the church, just as the*apostles*were. I'm sure many people called upon them. That is no excuse to say that*visitations, and sickness. Death will always be a part of life, what about the funerals, does a man say, He's not going to work, because he's waiting for some folks to die.*Slothfulness, and Idleness leads to idolatry, and*putting*the whole*hearted*love of the ministry aside to do your own thing. The bible says, if any man does not work, he has denied the faith, it did not say, if any man, "except the leaders". There is not a problem to go on a picnic with your family, or have your own gazebo in your yard, and invite all your friends to grilling, but it seems a problem to buy one and have church freely, and have a barbeque afterwards for the church family. It's not like that. You don't need a building to pray in. That's what church is, Jesus said, "my house shall be called a house of prayer, make it simple. The*greatest*revival was on Azuza Street. When a black preacher dirt poor, put a cardboard box on his head, not to be distracted by anything, and prayed to the Lord, miracles HAPPENED, limbs grew, eyes were formed, huge miracles from non distractions, the more beautiful the church, the less you see the beauty of Christ. Google it Azuza Street Revival miracles.*

 

[Ambi3333]

I don't know about talks but courses cost money. For the resources, the rights to do the course at one's church etc. It's not evil. People should get paid rightfully for the work they do.

But should they not offer a collection pot instead of charging? In that way they are not restricting the poor or needy, but are trusting God to tell people to give a certain amount, and would probably be blessed more? - Allowing the word to be free for all and those in a position or called to by God to do support can.... I f you are preaching for God, should have that much trust in God atleast?

 

[Nick01]

Yeah, I think preaching to non Christians/evangelism, and getting payment is very different to preaching to the church. I think the church should pay those who devote themselves to the church, and should also seek to support those who evangelise. I think the yardstick for Christians who are committed to the work their church does is to give more, and to always consider whether you can give even more than 'more'. However, charging for evangelistic events is different. A good middle road is asking those who are Christian to contribute to the running of those events, but making sure the friends they invite, and others, can get in for free.

On the flip side, I've also noted some non-Christians don't like freebies from the church, in many scenarios. One example is doing coffee (proper espresso) at my church - some people react better to paying a small amount, rather than being treated special by getting freebies. So the path we strike is we charge a small amount (smaller than any cafe) for coffee from everyone, but all of the money we receive from that goes back into coffee (beans, milk, training, capex for future investment), and none of it goes into the church budget or anyone's back pocket. Having said that, we often will also do free coffee at small events, but then we make it free for everyone - occasionally people will put some extra in to giving, but it's not expected or required. We just try to gauge those scenarios when people don't want to be treated as special cases - in other words, sometimes its worth distinguishing between what is 'charging for the gospel' and 'charging for other stuff the church does around the gospel.'

 

[Nick01]

But should they not offer a collection pot instead of charging? In that way they are not restricting the poor or needy, but are trusting God to tell people to give a certain amount, and would probably be blessed more? - Allowing the word to be free for all and those in a position or called to by God to do support can.... I f you are preaching for God, should have that much trust in God atleast?

On this specific point, I've been to events where the Christians buy two tickets - one for themselves, and one for a non-Christian friend or someone else they invite. I think this is a good approach.

I would be very hesitant to have a collection or donate pot at an evangelistic event or course (except for a church service). In my experience, those things put MORE pressure on people financially and psychologically than just charging admission. If you do anything, I would just say to your church people on Sunday to consider putting in an extra one off payment in the plate to cover expenses, but the reality is that in many churches, people are actually pretty terrible at increasing their voluntary giving. The general move to direct debiting might actually increase that propensity, I'm not sure.

 

[TruthisPower]

To me I don't believe my Money should go to a pastor, minister,elder or what ever, that is totally wrong. You should not have to pay to learn about God in any way of form. Its funny people charge for a Bible study all i can say flee from there.

How can you put a price on God? Being a pastor saying: well God, I can only teach if I get paid $$$. Thats not right at all. It should be done freely with grace and truth. The zeal of God should move ones hart to do it out of LOVE not money. We all work there is no excuse why there time is worth more then mine. If the Pastor didn't get paid you probably wouldn't have gotten charge in the first place. They should volunteer their time in order to share with others what they have learned.

The little thing can mean the most Do they zealously give free bible study's if not the love of God is not there my friend.

 

[Tintin]

That's moronic! Pastors should be paid for their work. Here in Australia, pastors aren't paid much but even that pittance would be considered too much by some of you! Gosh!

 

[Kaycie]

There are separate issues to address here...

1- The bible says we are to give to God according to how often and how much we prosper. The percentage of our income that we give is whatever we decide in our heart, however it says that those who sow little will reap little, and those who sow much will reap much.

2- Now what we give back to God is God's money. He decides what is done with it. He wants there to always be food in His barn for the poor. He wants widows and orphans taken care of, and He says to pay the preacher because the preacher is spending so much time doing God's work that he may not have enough time for another job. Shouldn't God take care of those who serve Him? In the old testament the priests got certain portions of meat- the meat the people sacrificed to God. Paying the preacher whether he is humble about it or not IS biblical.

3- Sometimes dishonest people get put into honest positions- there are bad cops, bad judges, and yes even bad preachers whose secret intention is to gain money dishonestly or to be too greedy. Let's say you give to God and it ends up in the hands of a dishonest person and you did not know it. On your part, according to your honest intention to give to God, no matter where that money ends up, it will be credited to you the same as if the money went where it should have. But let's say you knew it was being misused and still gave it- you will then be credited to contributing to what you know to be sinful. But if you chose not to give in one area because you think the money is being misused, you still have to be true to the percentage you decided in your heart to give to God by contributing to God's church, the poor, orphans, and widows in another way.

I think we all have trust issues on different levels. But you can relax when you give to God. Do not worry about it unless you KNOW something is wrong.

 

[TruthisPower]

Jesus used a whip to drive out the sheep and the cattle. He also overturned the tables of the money changers, saying: “Stop making the house of my Father a house of merchandise!” (John 2:14-16) Thus Jesus fulfilled the words of Psalm 69:9: “Sheer zeal or, “jealousy,” for your house has eaten me up

Anything sold in church should only be done on making bibles where it goes right back into making another Bible or other books without someone to gain from it. Like gospel music its a joke. freely give to others just as God freely gives you. I've seen Starbucks in churches, pastors that drive 100,000 dollar cars. Shameful. Your not supposed to sell things that are not related To Gods work, not on youth trips. Where that money needs to be spent on making more churches and teaching about God. We are living in the last day if we want fun that's coming in the near future when we we have all the time in our life's because we will live forever. I'm not saying you cant have fun but the money in churches are not using it the way they should be and that's only to preach the kingdom news, one of Jesus first commandments.

Theres always someone trying to Profit from God

 

[Tintin]

Yes, some abuse the system but that doesn't mean you should throw out the baby with the bathwater. Like I said, some of you people don't have a clue.

 

[TruthisPower]

“YOU received free, give free.” (Matthew 10:8) Jesus issued that instruction to his apostles when he sent them forth to preach the good news. Did the apostles obey this directive? Yes, and they continued to do so even after Jesus departed from the earth.

(Matthew 10:8) Cure the sick, raise up the dead, make lepers clean, expel demons. You received free, give free.



For instance, when the former sorcerer Simon saw the miraculous powers possessed by the apostles Peter and John, he offered to pay them to impart that power to him. But Peter rebuked Simon, saying: “May your silver perish with you, because you thought through money to get possession of the free gift of God.”Acts 8:18-20.


The apostle Paul displayed a spirit similar to Peter's. Paul could have allowed himself to be a financial burden to his Christian brothers in Corinth. However, he worked with his own hands to support himself. (Acts 18:1-3) Thus, he could say with confidence that he had preached the good news to the Corinthians “without cost.”

(1 Corinthians 4:12) and to toil, working with our own hands. When insulted, we bless; when persecuted, we patiently endure;

(1 Corinthians 9:18) What, then, is my reward? That when I declare the good news, I may offer the good news without cost, to avoid abusing my authority in the good news.



Sad to say, many who claim to be followers of Christ have not shown the same willingness to “give free.” Indeed many of the religious leaders in Christendom will “instruct just for a price.” (Micah 3:11) Some religious leaders have even become wealthy from money collected from their flocks.

(Micah 3:11) Her leaders judge for a bribe, Her priests instruct for a price, And her prophets practice divination for money. And yet they lean on Jehovah, saying: “Is not Jehovah with us? No calamity will come upon us.”



U.S. evangelist was sentenced to a jail term of 45 years. The reason? He had been defrauding supporters of millions of dollars and using some of the money to buy homes, cars, holidays and even an air conditioned dog kennel.



In Ghana, a Roman Catholic priest took money that had been collected during one church service and hurled it back at the congregation. His reason was that, as adults, they were expected to contribute in higher denominations. Not surprisingly, many churches even try to appeal to greed in its members, actively promoting gambling activities and other schemes in order to raise money.



By way of contrast, we should endeavor to imitate Jesus and his early disciples. To have no paid clergy. We all should be charged with the responsibility of preaching the good news of the kingdom to others. (Matthew 24:14) we should be willing to go worldwide, and therefore engaged in bringing life's water” free to the people. (Revelation 22:17) In this way, even those who “have no money” can benefit from the Bible’s message. (Isaiah 55:1) Although worldwide work should be funded by voluntary donations, you should never solicit money. To be true ministers of God, it is not to be “peddlers of the word of God, but speak out of sincerity, yes, as sent from God. 2 Corinthians 2:17.

(Matthew 24:14) And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.



(Revelation 22:17) And the spirit and the bride keep on saying, “Come!” and let anyone hearing say, “Come!” and let anyone thirsting come; let anyone who wishes take life’s water free.

(Isaiah 55:1) Come, all you thirsty ones, come to the water! You with no money, come, buy and eat! Yes, come, buy wine and milk without money and without cost.



(2 Corinthians 2:17) We are, for we are not peddlers of the word of God as many men are, but we speak in all sincerity as sent from God, yes, in the sight of God and in company with Christ.

 

[TruthisPower]

But should they not offer a collection pot instead of charging? In that way they are not restricting the poor or needy, but are trusting God to tell people to give a certain amount, and would probably be blessed more? - Allowing the word to be free for all and those in a position or called to by God to do support can.... I f you are preaching for God, should have that much trust in God atleast?

At least someone here is looking for truth.

 

[Tintin]

You know, just because your username is TruthisPower, doesn't always mean you speak the truth. We've had all types, TruthfromFrank etc. and they turned out to be some of the most dangerous false teachers we've had here. So be careful. Make sure you are speaking the truth and if you bugger up, repent and move on.

 

[Flamingspirit]

They have all went the way of Balaam.