Christians are not obligated to be physically circumcised?

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1

1still_waters

Guest
#1
#1
I don't think scripture forbids Christians from being physically circumcised.
That is not the scope of this thread.

The scope of this thread is...
Scripture does not obligate Christians to be physically circumcised.
Scripture does not command Christians to be physically circumcised.
Scripture does not direct Christians to be physically circumcised.

I guess this discussion can be answered easily.

Are Christians obligated, commanded, directed to be physically circumcised?

I honestly don't know of any Christians who think Christians are obligated, commanded or directed to be physically circumcised.

Am I wrong?
 
JesusChica1991

JesusChica1991

Banned
#2
May 9, 2012
1,514
25
0
#2
Nope. Not wrong. People who are heavy into the command have a tendency to try and follow the Law whereas Christ clearly demonstrates Gospel is for circumcised and non-circumcised. There is an issue in Acts that arose out of this very issue.
 
wattie

wattie

Senior Member
#3
Feb 24, 2009
3,023
1,020
113
New Zealand
#3
Ya well biblically speaking- the command to be physcially circumcized was in the OT covenant which has passed. So now in the NT age- there is no command to be physically circumsized.

But you may find groups of christians who still believe they are commanded to. Maybe a Messianic Jew might?

My cousin was circumsized.. I am guessing it was for health reasons.. because they aren't into Judaism and are Christian.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#4
#4
wattie said:
Ya well biblically speaking- the command to be physcially circumcized was in the OT covenant which has passed. So now in the NT age- there is no command to be physically circumsized.

But you may find groups of christians who still believe they are commanded to. Maybe a Messianic Jew might?

My cousin was circumsized.. I am guessing it was for health reasons.. because they aren't into Judaism and are Christian.
Click to expand...
So far..

2 - Christians are not obligated, commanded, directed to be physically circumcised.
0 - Christians are obligated, commanded, directed to be physically circumcised.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#5
#5
No it is not commanded of Christians to be physically circumcised.
It was a tradition/custom that was commanded in the OT, but in the NT circumcision is spiritual. ( The stripping away of the old self and becoming a new creation. )
Paul corrected Peter when Peter tried to force new converts to be circumcised. Paul said this is no longer required physically.

Paul taught the gospel apart form our philosophies, traditions, and customs.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#6
#6
kennethcadwell said:
No it is not commanded of Christians to be physically circumcised.
It was a tradition/custom that was commanded in the OT, but in the NT circumcision is spiritual. ( The stripping away of the old self and becoming a new creation. )
Paul corrected Peter when Peter tried to force new converts to be circumcised. Paul said this is no longer required physically.

Paul taught the gospel apart form our philosophies, traditions, and customs.
Click to expand...
3 - Christians are not obligated, commanded, directed to be physically circumcised.
0 - Christians are obligated, commanded, directed to be physically circumcised.
 
damombomb

damombomb

Senior Member
#7
Feb 27, 2011
3,801
68
48
#7
Colossians 2:8-14
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#8
#8
damombomb said:
Colossians 2:8-14
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Click to expand...
Im assuming this post ups it to..

4 - Christians are not obligated, commanded, directed to be physically circumcised.
0 - Christians are obligated, commanded, directed to be physically circumcised.
 
V

Vernon

Banned
#9
Jan 6, 2014
991
27
0
#9
The odd thing to me is Paul agreed to the circumcision of Timothy.

5-0 BTW

just a thought
 
KohenMatt

KohenMatt

Senior Member
#10
Jun 28, 2013
4,021
221
63
#10
Both of my boys have been circumcised.

It's a Biblical instruction that is still valid today for Christians.
It is a picture of the circumcision of the heart, which is the greater commandment.

It has NOTHING to do with Salvation.

There are multiple health benefits to doing it.

5-1.
:p

Bring on the bashing, baby!
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#11
#11
Vernon said:
The odd thing to me is Paul agreed to the circumcision of Timothy.

5-0 BTW

just a thought
Click to expand...
5 - Christians are not obligated, commanded, directed to be physically circumcised.
0 - Christians are obligated, commanded, directed to be physically circumcised.
 
JesusChica1991

JesusChica1991

Banned
#12
May 9, 2012
1,514
25
0
#12
Actually most studies in the last five years show no correlation between circumcision and health benefits. The only reason why it was done was to keep said area clean from infection because people didn't have the knowledge to clean themselves like they do now but since most people these days know how to bathe properly, it isn't so required for health reasons.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#13
#13
KohenMatt said:
Both of my boys have been circumcised.

It's a Biblical instruction that is still valid today for Christians.
It is a picture of the circumcision of the heart, which is the greater commandment.

It has NOTHING to do with Salvation.

There are multiple health benefits to doing it.

5-1.
:p

Bring on the bashing, baby!
Click to expand...
5 - Christians are not obligated, commanded, directed to be physically circumcised.
1 - Christians are obligated, commanded, directed to be physically circumcised.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#14
#14
KohenMatt said:
Both of my boys have been circumcised.

It's a Biblical instruction that is still valid today for Christians.
It is a picture of the circumcision of the heart, which is the greater commandment.

It has NOTHING to do with Salvation.

There are multiple health benefits to doing it.

5-1.
:p

Bring on the bashing, baby!
Click to expand...
Just to clarify, there is a difference between valid and obligated/commanded/directed.

Are you saying Christians are obligated/commanded/directed to be physically circumcised?
AsI stated earlier..
I don't think scripture forbids Christians from being physically circumcised.
That is not the scope of this thread.
Click to expand...
So let's make sure the score is really 5-1 and not 6-0.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#15
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
#15
Hopefully not as part of 'law keeping'...

Galatians 5:2-3 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#16
#16
crossnote said:
Hopefully not as part of 'law keeping'...

Galatians 5:2-3 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Click to expand...
Brings us to
6 - Christians are not obligated, commanded, directed to be physically circumcised.
1 - Christians are obligated, commanded, directed to be physically circumcised.
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#17
#17
1still_waters said:
Brings us to
6 - Christians are not obligated, commanded, directed to be physically circumcised.
1 - Christians are obligated, commanded, directed to be physically circumcised.
Click to expand...
Make that 7-1 :)
 
RedTent

RedTent

Banned
#18
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
182
0
#18
wattie said:
Ya well biblically speaking- the command to be physcially circumcized was in the OT covenant which has passed. So now in the NT age- there is no command to be physically circumsized.

But you may find groups of christians who still believe they are commanded to. Maybe a Messianic Jew might?

My cousin was circumsized.. I am guessing it was for health reasons.. because they aren't into Judaism and are Christian.
Click to expand...
The physical circumcision that God ordered was never the point, it was symbolic. It was also ordered in the Old Testament when it was important, spiritually, for Hebrews to be separated from idol worshippers. It was a mark of that separation.

When Christ died for our sins, the minute he died, the veil was split and the separation of gentile as only those who did not know God and Hebrew who was trained to know God was also split--now they had equal access to God. At that point, the mark of physical circumcision was needed no more. That didn't mean that God took away our right to choose circumcision, it just means that Jews did not need to mark themselves as separate from gentiles any longer.

When Jews told gentiles that unless they were physically marked by circumcision they were not accepted by the Lord, it was very much wrong for them to make that statement. It was not truth at all. That is not what God looks at. However, when man makes such a huge deal of physical circumcision one way or the other, they are also out of line with the Lord. Usually, they are thinking of it legalistically. If a person chooses to think of it symbolically, relating it to the spiritual truth, they may do that. They may also choose to think of it as a physical only act and not have anything to do with physical circumcision.

Circumcision was never, ever given to us by God for health reasons. It is a spiritual, symbolic issue. It also has nothing to do with the Old Testament not being scripture. We are spoken to in the Old Testament, it is scripture. When people say it is not scripture, they are in error. The new covenant has to do with what the life of Christ and His resurrection means to us, and to relate the new to the old is also in error. They are two covenants, both to be understood. The only way they are related is in seeing how the new improved the old and made it better.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#19
#19
cfultz3 said:
Make that 7-1 :)
Click to expand...
7 - Christians are not obligated, commanded, directed to be physically circumcised.
1 - Christians are obligated, commanded, directed to be physically circumcised.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#20
#20
RedTent said:
The physical circumcision that God ordered was never the point, it was symbolic. It was also ordered in the Old Testament when it was important, spiritually, for Hebrews to be separated from idol worshippers. It was a mark of that separation.

When Christ died for our sins, the minute he died, the veil was split and the separation of gentile as only those who did not know God and Hebrew who was trained to know God was also split--now they had equal access to God. At that point, the mark of physical circumcision was needed no more. That didn't mean that God took away our right to choose circumcision, it just means that Jews did not need to mark themselves as separate from gentiles any longer.

When Jews told gentiles that unless they were physically marked by circumcision they were not accepted by the Lord, it was very much wrong for them to make that statement. It was not truth at all. That is not what God looks at. However, when man makes such a huge deal of physical circumcision one way or the other, they are also out of line with the Lord. Usually, they are thinking of it legalistically. If a person chooses to think of it symbolically, relating it to the spiritual truth, they may do that. They may also choose to think of it as a physical only act and not have anything to do with physical circumcision.

Circumcision was never, ever given to us by God for health reasons. It is a spiritual, symbolic issue. It also has nothing to do with the Old Testament not being scripture. We are spoken to in the Old Testament, it is scripture. When people say it is not scripture, they are in error. The new covenant has to do with what the life of Christ and His resurrection means to us, and to relate the new to the old is also in error. They are two covenants, both to be understood. The only way they are related is in seeing how the new improved the old and made it better.
Click to expand...
In short, do you bring us to 8-1 or 7-2?

7 - Christians are not obligated, commanded, directed to be physically circumcised.
1 - Christians are obligated, commanded, directed to be physically circumcised.
 
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