What Happens to an UNBAPTIZED believer?

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Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
#1
If a man believes in the Lord Jesus, trusts the Lord Jesus as His Savior, but he does not get water baptized, what happens to him? Does he go to hell? Bible proof?
 
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
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#2
The thief on the cross proves that one does not need to be water baptized in order to be saved. Jesus was baptized just like everybody else was baptized and the Holy Spirit had descended on Him like a dove. Receiving the Spirit for the rest of mankind is different. It shows that you are saved if you receive the Holy Spirit. Romans 5:5 testifies to that fact. For how can the "love of God" be spread abroad within our hearts from the Holy Ghost if we are not saved? Yet, we can read about how believers have received the Spirit before they were water baptized.

When I was water baptized, I didn't do it for salvation. I was fully aware that it was not for the putting away of the filth of the flesh and it was done as a part of having a good conscience towards God. I was saved long before I was water baptized. Is my salvation in question? Do I need to get re-baptized thinking it will save me so as to be saved? Or was I one of the lucky ones?
 
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Joidevivre

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2014
3,838
271
83
#3
In ministering as a chaplain to those people who were dying and received Christ right before death, there were all the signs that they were saved. Signs such as a new peace in their spirit and an assurance that Jesus was real. These things are only a sign of the Holy Spirit upon a life. No amount of words that I could preach could bring this sort of faith.
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#4
Such a believer will no longer be posting on CC, but, in the spirit of kicking around this water baptism question on another thread like some cyber mobius strip that never ends, just ponder this verse for awhile,

Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire.

Now, why doesn't somebody here rather prove from the Bible that every mention of baptism in the New Testament, with no mention of water, is even referring to water baptism? You think possibly not? Just a hint.
 
I

IAm3rd

Guest
#5
Such a believer will no longer be posting on CC, but, in the spirit of kicking around this water baptism question on another thread like some cyber mobius strip that never ends, just ponder this verse for awhile,

Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire.

Now, why doesn't somebody here rather prove from the Bible that every mention of baptism in the New Testament, with no mention of water, is even referring to water baptism? You think possibly not? Just a hint.
Jesusisall... let me help you understand the verse you put forth. You need to keep it in context.

1. Who is he speaking to ? ... 7 “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? [SUP]8 [/SUP]Bear fruits in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

2. What does he mean by Jesus will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire ? He is speaking of judgement. You see, you stopped just short of the verse you need to understand the text.
Let me highlight it for you.

Luke 3:[SUP]16 [/SUP]John answered them all, saying, “I baptize you with water, but he who is mightier than I is coming, the strap of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. [SUP]17 [/SUP]His winnowing fork is in his hand, to clear his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.
 
I

IAm3rd

Guest
#6
The thief on the cross proves that one does not need to be water baptized in order to be saved.
You assume 2 things:

1.The theif wasn't baptized
2. That he went to heaven

Jesus said that day the thief would be with Him in paradise. Now, are you saying Jesus went to heaven that day ??? Cuz in my Bible in 1 Peter it says Jesus went to proclaim to those now in prison from the days of Noah, for 3 days. Jesus did not go to heaven for weeks after His resurrection. He went to where the disobedient went since the days of Noah
 
Aug 13, 2014
193
2
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#7
If a man believes in the Lord Jesus, trusts the Lord Jesus as His Savior, but he does not get water baptized, what happens to him? Does he go to hell? Bible proof?
They and babies and such will be resurrected mortal in the second resurrection of the many that comes just after the end of the 1000 Years.

Mac.
 
Aug 13, 2014
193
2
0
#8
The thief on the cross proves that one does not need to be water baptized in order to be saved. Jesus was baptized just like everybody else was baptized and the Holy Spirit had descended on Him like a dove. Receiving the Spirit for the rest of mankind is different. It shows that you are saved if you receive the Holy Spirit. Romans 5:5 testifies to that fact. For how can the "love of God" be spread abroad within our hearts from the Holy Ghost if we are not saved? Yet, we can read about how believers have received the Spirit before they were water baptized.

When I was water baptized, I didn't do it for salvation. I was fully aware that it was not for the putting away of the filth of the flesh and it was done as a part of having a good conscience towards God. I was saved long before I was water baptized. Is my salvation in question? Do I need to get re-baptized thinking it will save me so as to be saved? Or was I one of the lucky ones?
The thief on the cross is dead and does not exist at this timed.

When he is resurrected he has the assurance that he will be with Jesus just like Jesus said.

Mac.
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#9
Jesusisall... let me help you understand the verse you put forth. You need to keep it in context.
You aren't making any sense, what any of that has to do with the baptism of the Holy Spirit. It's like you're finding some context in Leviticus. But whatever turns your crank, only please help somebody else to "understand," despite what's plainly said, in the very context of the entire scene and situation, about baptism, John's baptism versus baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. (I don't do the pretzel theology bickers well, try somebody else, please.)
 
I

IAm3rd

Guest
#10
You aren't making any sense, what any of that has to do with the baptism of the Holy Spirit. It's like you're finding some context in Leviticus. But whatever turns your crank, only please help somebody else to "understand," despite what's plainly said, in the very context of the entire scene and situation, about baptism, John's baptism versus baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. (I don't do the pretzel theology bickers well, try somebody else, please.)
If asking you to include the next verse in the text you provided so that the context can be understood = "pretzel theology" in your mind then... I don't know how to help you.
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#11
If asking you to include the next verse in the text you provided so that the context can be understood = "pretzel theology" in your mind then... I don't know how to help you.
Did I ask for any help understanding the verse, in the first place?
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#12
If asking you to include the next verse in the text you provided so that the context can be understood = "pretzel theology" in your mind then... I don't know how to help you.
I never quite understand you people who, the lady is in her car, the engine is started, she's put in reverse, and you come along, banging on the driver's side window, "Mamn, let me help you to your car!"
 
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
#13
The devils are unbaptized believers, James 2:19
The Chief Priests were unbaptized believers, Jn 12:42
King Agrippa was an unbaptized believer Acts 26:27.


Mk 16:16 "He that believeth AND is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

The connecting force of the conjunction "and" ties belief to baptism making them inseparable with both put BEFORE "saved" leaving belief only to fall short of "saved".

Acts 2:41 "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized..."
Acts 2:44 "And all that believed were together..."

Who are the ones that "believed" in v44? The ones that accepted Peter's words thst were baptized or the ones rejecting his words that rejected being baptized? The ones that "believed" in v44 are the ones baptized in v41, so believed in v44 is used as a synecdoche were "believed"INCLUDES being baptized.

Again, the ones that accepted Peter's words were baptized and the ones rejecting his words rejected being baptized, verse 41. So one who has not been baptized has not gladly received the gospel word but is rejecting it.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
#14
Jesusisall... let me help you understand the verse you put forth. You need to keep it in context.

I am3: I am at a loss to know what on earth your post has to do with the thread. The thread asks what happens to those who believe, but fail to get water baptized before they die. I didn't see anything about that. The baptize with the Holy Spirit & fire would seem to have happened on the day of Pentecost when fire appeared.

But I see nothing on topic there.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
#15
You assume 2 things:

1.The theif wasn't baptized
2. That he went to heaven

Jesus said that day the thief would be with Him in paradise. Now, are you saying Jesus went to heaven that day ??? Cuz in my Bible in 1 Peter it says Jesus went to proclaim to those now in prison from the days of Noah, for 3 days. Jesus did not go to heaven for weeks after His resurrection. He went to where the disobedient went since the days of Noah
Is this post supposed to have something to do with this thread, namely what the Bible says about persons who believe, trust Christ as Savior, yet don't get water-baptized ???
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
#16
They and babies and such will be resurrected mortal in the second resurrection of the many that comes just after the end of the 1000 Years.

Mac.
Mac, what is your Bible proof of that?
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
#17
You aren't making any sense, what any of that has to do with the baptism of the Holy Spirit. It's like you're finding some context in Leviticus. But whatever turns your crank, only please help somebody else to "understand," despite what's plainly said, in the very context of the entire scene and situation, about baptism, John's baptism versus baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. (I don't do the pretzel theology bickers well, try somebody else, please.)
Pretzel theology?

Is this post supposed to have something to do with this thread, namely what the Bible says about persons who believe, trust Christ as Savior, yet don't get water-baptized ???
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
#18
Is this post supposed to have something to do with this thread, namely what the Bible says about persons who believe, trust Christ as Savior, yet don't get water-baptized ???

The devils are unbaptized believers, James 2:19
I don't see baptize in James 2:19. The topic is what about men who trust Christ as Savior and yet never get baptized. Devils don't trust Christ as Savior -- completely irrelevant.

The Chief Priests were unbaptized believers, Jn 12:42
1) actually I believe that under the law all priests had to be water-baptized.
2) The Chief Priests did not trust Christ as their Savior. So this is irrelevant. The topic has nothing to do with person who believe God exists or any set of facts, it is about persons who believe in the Lord Jesus in the sense of trusting Him as Savior. What happens if they don't get water-baptized, and where does the Bible say it?

King Agrippa was an unbaptized believer Acts 26:27.
Again, the topic is those who trust Christ as Savior, not those who believe factually that the prophets spoke God's word.


Mk 16:16 "He that believeth AND is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

The connecting force of the conjunction "and" ties belief to baptism making them inseparable with both put BEFORE "saved" leaving belief only to fall short of "saved".
Where does the text say that belief only falls short of saved?
I don't see "falls short" in my Bible.


Is this the famous logical fallacy of denying the antecedent?
Given: If A & B, then C.
Given: If not A, then not C.
Fallacious deduction: If A, but not B; then not C.

Acts 2:41 "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized"
Acts 2:44 "And all that believed were together…"


Where does this text say anything about any who believed, but didn't get water-baptized?
If it says nothing about that, it is irrelevant.

Who are the ones that "believed" in v44? The ones that accepted Peter's words thst were baptized or the ones rejecting his words that rejected being baptized? The ones that "believed" in v44 are the ones baptized in v41, so believed in v44 is used as a synecdoche were "believed"INCLUDES being baptized.
Lets see your proof that believed is "synecdoche for believed and were baptized." If on an occasion all believers got dunked, how does that prove that the word believe means "believe and get dunked"?
Are you saying that believers don't need water baptism since their belief by synecdoche includes water dunking? Proof?
If on some occasion everyone who got bit by a mosquito sold their bicycles, how would that prove that "bit by mosquito" means by synecdoche "sold bicycle?

Again, the ones that accepted Peter's words were baptized and the ones rejecting his words rejected being baptized, verse 41. So one who has not been baptized has not gladly received the gospel word but is rejecting it.
Do you see the illogic of your statement? How does what certain people did on the Day of Pentecost prove what all people everywhere do? You say "the ones that" did something on Pentecost imply something about "one who." YOu say, "the ones that . . . So one who." How would one group of people on one occasion prove what "one who" does . . . that is everyone everywhere? Now if everyone on Pentecost got baptized, how would that prove anything whatsoever on thread: Namely, what happens to persons who believe (trust Christ as Savior), yet don't get water-baptized? For example, a soldier might be dying on a battlefield and hear: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & you shall be saved from another soldier, cradling him his arms. What happens to such a man?

The question is not about "receiving the gospel word."

You falsely claim (with no Bible proof): "So one who has not been baptized has not gladly received the gospel word but is rejecting it." Are you claiming that everyone who trusts Christ as Savior is rejecting the gospel word (whatever that means) before he is dunked? So Mr. X trusts Christ as Savior on Monday, and the preacher schedules the water-baptism for next Saturday. Thus you are claiming that all through the week Mr. X is rejecting the gospel word (off topic anyway) until he gets dunked on Saturday???

You have not addressed the question:
What happens to the man who believes in the Lord Jesus in the sense of trusting Him as Savior, but somehow does not get water-baptized before he dies? What does the Bible say about such a person? Prove your theory from the Bible.
 
I

IAm3rd

Guest
#19
I am3: I am at a loss to know what on earth your post has to do with the thread. The thread asks what happens to those who believe, but fail to get water baptized before they die. I didn't see anything about that. The baptize with the Holy Spirit & fire would seem to have happened on the day of Pentecost when fire appeared.

But I see nothing on topic there.
If I see someone post a verse out of context to support their answer to your thread... I'm gonna discuss that. Sorry... But it's gonna happen.
 
I

IAm3rd

Guest
#20
Is this post supposed to have something to do with this thread, namely what the Bible says about persons who believe, trust Christ as Savior, yet don't get water-baptized ???
Yes, it has something to do with this topic....

if if someone wants to use the thief to support their answer to your topic, I will in turn discuss why their position doesn't hold water. It's called discussion.