Stop Arguing about Law under Grace

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JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,196
6,509
113
#1
Sometimes many people are put into a haze by a multitude of words.


This constant discussion of obeying the law or not while believing one is living in grace has many in that cloud of verbosity.


Think about the constant arguments, and both sides have reason, yet there is no agreement.


It is written, he who lives by the law will abide by all of the law. Now we all know this is impossible, for no one is capable of living by all of the law save our Salvation, Jesus christ. This should have awakend both sides of this endless dispute a long time ago.


How is this you are thinking? If thos who believe Jesus Christ are aware they cannot live by the law alone, then they are not living by the law alone, but by the Example of Jesus Christ. I do not speak of those who believe in the laws of punishment, dietary, or sacrificial laws, for those are not possible to follow sinc our Lord made all foods clean, all laws of punishment replaced by mercy, and moved the Templt to the living stones of His Body.

So we do live by faith, read the third chapter of Galatians, while following the Example of Jesus Christ, for we have received the promise given Abraham 430 prior the to giving of the law. As is written, the law, given 430 years after the promise, cannot nullify that promise.


Bottom line, all who believe in obeying God's wisdom in the laws, yet follow the Example of Jesus Christ, cannot be under the law, for they knowingly omit all those laws mentione forehand here.


Stop arguing if you know your brethren are living by faith. To obey God is never as in, only to disobey God is a sin and likened by Him to witch craft. Do not argue this, for it is truth.

You will be ignored if you have overlooked what is stated in this text.
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
#2
Sometimes many people are put into a haze by a multitude of words.

This constant discussion of obeying the law or not while believing one is living in grace has many in that cloud of verbosity.

Think about the constant arguments, and both sides have reason, yet there is no agreement.

It is written, he who lives by the law will abide by all of the law. Now we all know this is impossible, for no one is capable of living by all of the law save our Salvation, Jesus christ. This should have awakend both sides of this endless dispute a long time ago.

How is this you are thinking? If thos who believe Jesus Christ are aware they cannot live by the law alone, then they are not living by the law alone, but by the Example of Jesus Christ. I do not speak of those who believe in the laws of punishment, dietary, or sacrificial laws, for those are not possible to follow sinc our Lord made all foods clean, all laws of punishment replaced by mercy, and moved the Templt to the living stones of His Body.

So we do live by faith, read the third chapter of Galatians, while following the Example of Jesus Christ, for we have received the promise given Abraham 430 prior the to giving of the law. As is written, the law, given 430 years after the promise, cannot nullify that promise.

Bottom line, all who believe in obeying God's wisdom in the laws, yet follow the Example of Jesus Christ, cannot be under the law, for they knowingly omit all those laws mentione forehand here.

Stop arguing if you know your brethren are living by faith. To obey God is never as in, only to disobey God is a sin and likened by Him to witch craft. Do not argue this, for it is truth.

You will be ignored if you have overlooked what is stated in this text.
Agreed "you must spread some reputation around before giving it to Jaumej again"

Many who contribute in CC are very knowledgeable in Biblical concepts. For sure they have drawn the attention of me and others in that respect. I have noticed that many contributing posts (in reference to what others are saying) need no response necessary for edification. Sometimes I have noticed exhortations of correction in conversations that are between two other people previous and then a third person interjects without knowing how the conversation in the first place. The Bible says that we will know people by their character/fruit. I say again that the knowledge of many is exemplary but some have an uncanny way of instigating conversation in a negative manner rather than the positive. Many times there is no necessity for the comments that are made, making post after post, addressing others with their impressive understanding of scripture.

I have come to the conclusion that some feel it a necessity to act in such a manner because deep inside their heart is a complex of an inferior nature. That being said, there is only One we need to respond to for the purpose of showing ourselves approved. Human nature seeks to impress others by our increased understanding in order to establish ourselves as a person of notoriety. The more we try to impress others with our prowess, the less impressive we become to others. God is not a respecter of persons. I'm sure I will receive a somewhat negative response because of my exhortation and corrective rhetoric. I care enough to be say this, and at the same time look at myself in the glass.

James 1:23-24
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way , and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was .

I write this with as much love as I know, may God bless you all.

1 Thessalonian 4:1 Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove , rebuke , exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,196
6,509
113
#3
Many times we say "amen," and I do say amen, but living here in Spain, I feel I must add BRAVO! Well said, and the meaning for me is a blessing, written with understanding and, I do believe, much love. God bless you always.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to just-me again.



Agreed "you must spread some reputation around before giving it to Jaumej again"

Many who contribute in CC are very knowledgeable in Biblical concepts. For sure they have drawn the attention of me and others in that respect. I have noticed that many contributing posts (in reference to what others are saying) need no response necessary for edification. Sometimes I have noticed exhortations of correction in conversations that are between two other people previous and then a third person interjects without knowing how the conversation in the first place. The Bible says that we will know people by their character/fruit. I say again that the knowledge of many is exemplary but some have an uncanny way of instigating conversation in a negative manner rather than the positive. Many times there is no necessity for the comments that are made, making post after post, addressing others with their impressive understanding of scripture.

I have come to the conclusion that some feel it a necessity to act in such a manner because deep inside their heart is a complex of an inferior nature. That being said, there is only One we need to respond to for the purpose of showing ourselves approved. Human nature seeks to impress others by our increased understanding in order to establish ourselves as a person of notoriety. The more we try to impress others with our prowess, the less impressive we become to others. God is not a respecter of persons. I'm sure I will receive a somewhat negative response because of my exhortation and corrective rhetoric. I care enough to be say this, and at the same time look at myself in the glass.

James 1:23-24
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way , and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was .

I write this with as much love as I know, may God bless you all.

1 Thessalonian 4:1 Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove , rebuke , exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#4
Agreed "you must spread some reputation around before giving it to Jaumej again"

Many who contribute in CC are very knowledgeable in Biblical concepts. For sure they have drawn the attention of me and others in that respect. I have noticed that many contributing posts (in reference to what others are saying) need no response necessary for edification. Sometimes I have noticed exhortations of correction in conversations that are between two other people previous and then a third person interjects without knowing how the conversation in the first place. The Bible says that we will know people by their character/fruit. I say again that the knowledge of many is exemplary but some have an uncanny way of instigating conversation in a negative manner rather than the positive. Many times there is no necessity for the comments that are made, making post after post, addressing others with their impressive understanding of scripture.

I have come to the conclusion that some feel it a necessity to act in such a manner because deep inside their heart is a complex of an inferior nature. That being said, there is only One we need to respond to for the purpose of showing ourselves approved. Human nature seeks to impress others by our increased understanding in order to establish ourselves as a person of notoriety. The more we try to impress others with our prowess, the less impressive we become to others. God is not a respecter of persons. I'm sure I will receive a somewhat negative response because of my exhortation and corrective rhetoric. I care enough to be say this, and at the same time look at myself in the glass.

James 1:23-24
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way , and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was .

I write this with as much love as I know, may God bless you all.

1 Thessalonian 4:1 Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove , rebuke , exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
There is always the possibility that your dime store philosophy is less than convincing or that you will be seen as just the pot calling the kettle black.

The scripture you cite is excellent. The commentary leaves something to be desired.

Is it better to wander in the haze of verbosity or to stumble in the darkness of silence?

I doubt that many would visit here if it were not for the challenges brought and the errors exposed on the open forums. There is great apostasy and down right heresy in the world today. Even Spiritual warfare is not some degree of messiness.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
K

Karraster

Guest
#5
I would like to say "Bravo" for this thread! :)

Is it even possible in this life to agree on all points of persuasion? I think not. If we can agree the scriptures was given to men by our Creator, and that He sent His only begotten Son to suffer the penalty for our sin and that we accept Him/follow Him we can inherit life everlasting..we ought to be able to (with His grace) be able to discuss finer points without being sarcastic and rude. One example Messiah gave to the apostles, while they were yet occupied with what position they might hold along beside Him, He was washing their feet! When men were casting lots for his garments, He was asking Father to forgive them...
 
K

Karraster

Guest
#6
Now Roger, don't take my post personally, as I type slow and didn't see your post when I wrote mine.:)
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#7
Hebrews 6:1-3 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.

1 Timothy 6:3-5 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; he is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
#8
There is always the possibility that your dime store philosophy is less than convincing or that you will be seen as just the pot calling the kettle black.

The scripture you cite is excellent. The commentary leaves something to be desired.

Is it better to wander in the haze of verbosity or to stumble in the darkness of silence?

I doubt that many would visit here if it were not for the challenges brought and the errors exposed on the open forums. There is great apostasy and down right heresy in the world today. Even Spiritual warfare is not some degree of messiness.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
We have often heard that "iron sharpens iron." This is Biblical. Battle dulls the sword by waking away at each other. The sword is ONLY sharpened with another soldier who is resting with you between battles. (Sabbath concept) If we battle between each other the enemy will overtake us. Maybe he already has. ya think?

Karraster, You need a sword sharpening? Mine is dull.
 
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Oct 31, 2011
8,200
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#9
We have often heard that "iron sharpens iron." This is Biblical. Battle dulls the sword by waking away at each other. The sword is ONLY sharpened with another soldier who is resting with you between battles. (Sabbath concept) If we battle between each other the enemy will overtake us. Maybe he already has. ya think?

Karraster, You need a sword sharpening? Mine is dull.
We really are in a terrible battle with the enemy, an enemy that is attacking on many fronts. As one way to oppose God, within the church, the enemy is trying to destroy the Holy Law of the Lord and they are even using cherry picking in scripture to do it. Many well meaning, devout Christians work for this as they are completely blind to being used by demons to work against God as they are doing this. If the enemy can get the organized church to say that Moses was given a bad rap when the Lord told him about ways to express love for us as the ten commandments are, that it is Jesus way to let people flaunt sexual boundaries in the church, that the church isn't for sanctification but for evangelism within it's doors and not for strengthening Christians for evangelism---many things are connected to teaching to ignore law and not use it for a guide in Christian walking.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,704
3,649
113
#10
This thread is inviting and stirring up the very thing it is forbidding by dictating what's what on the law/grace issue.
 
K

Karraster

Guest
#11
This thread is inviting and stirring up the very thing it is forbidding by dictating what's what on the law/grace issue.
is that kinda like...why did the man climb the mountain? and he says.."because it's there.."???
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,704
3,649
113
#12
is that kinda like...why did the man climb the mountain? and he says.."because it's there.."???
It's kinda like telling the kids, "Now I've hidden the cookies in the frig...DO NOT TOUCH!"
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
#13
This thread is inviting and stirring up the very thing it is forbidding by dictating what's what on the law/grace issue.
God has a couple things to say about what you said. Or I should say Paul (who was inspired by God) has a few things to say about what you said.

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid : yea, we establish the law. (Romans 3:31)

What then? shall we sin , because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid . (Romans 6:15)

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand , and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. (Romans 5:1-2)

Jesus makes a comment about how we are to understand His words.

For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? (John 5:46-47)

Oh ya. One more thing. It is important that we know what Paul believed, and how he worshiped God.
But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: (Acts 24:14)

I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. (Galatians 2:21)

Put it all in context.
 
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JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,196
6,509
113
#14
What is posted in the OP is not opposing Holy Scripture. It is posted to unite family in Jesus Christ, not to tear down.

What could possibly be dictatorial about encouraging the family to interact in peace rather than to use each argument as an accusation of brethren?

It states both sides of the argumetn are arguing for nought upon close scrutiny, and we are a family in the faith of Abraham.
It is scriptural that Jesus Christ demonstrates grace in place of the laws that dictate punishment and death.
It is scriptural that we live in grace after having accepted the sacrifice of our Salvation, Jesus Christ.
It is scriptureal that no one is justified by the law.
It is scriptural that Jesus Christ teaches it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one of the laws to be made obsolete, and we know by Christ's example that some laws are not to be followed as delineated in the OP.

Here is another that is scriptural, we know the family in Jesus Christ by their love for one another, therefore to work for unity and love is not dictatorial............. If there is something that is not based on the Word, or on the Love that is God, then comment on it directly, but accusations are not unifying or edifying when they are based on a personal opinion.

Domonstrate from the Word, paraphrasing is just fine for brethren who know the Word.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,196
6,509
113
#17
Just a note on the OP. It is inspired by my Hebrew study of the New Testament, HeBrit HaChodesh, this morning in Galatians 3. I love reading the Word, in any language, amen. Praise Jesus Christ, or do you translate His name completely if so, Praise Salvation, amen...
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,704
3,649
113
#18
God has a couple things to say about what you said. Or I should say Paul (who was inspired by God) has a few things to say about what you said.

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid : yea, we establish the law. (Romans 3:31)

What then? shall we sin , because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid . (Romans 6:15)

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand , and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. (Romans 5:1-2)

Jesus makes a comment about how we are to understand His words.

For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? (John 5:46-47)

Oh ya. One more thing. It is important that we know what Paul believed, and how he worshiped God.
But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: (Acts 24:14)

I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. (Galatians 2:21)

Put it all in context.
So you go against the OP's wishes and then get a 'like' by the OP...sheer hypocrisy.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,196
6,509
113
#19
You will know them by their love for one another. My first love is Jesus Christ, and when I see His words as reference with reason and understanding albeit paraphrased, directly quoted or through one of His servants, I will like it. I love the Word of God.

The OP is designed for peace and unity in bringing together two factions that do not hear each other, for those who love Jesus Christ are all family.

It is natural for family to be in agreement when in the light of the truth from Jesus Christ. It is not natual for people to pick at demonstrations of love when done in truth, or in acting to unify in love.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,704
3,649
113
#20
Isn't it also Scriptural to say we are not under law but grace?

Romans 6:14-15 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.