Ten Horns of the Leopard-Bear-Lion

[just-me]

Could be a different epic in time my friend, in which I believe to be true.

Time chronology isn't what I was endorsing.

referring to this post

The church are the saints that make up the church. We are to recognize the saints, the church, and what the beast's agenda is concerning us.

 

[cfultz3]

Glad to see you around and getting around, Therapon

 

[dcontroversal]

I asked the room in general, let me ask you specifically: What does Daniel 12:11 mean to you?

1290 days from the start of the tribulation period to the setting up of the image of the beast and the command to worship it....I personally believe that it is highly probable that the sacrifices were done away with the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus and a little shy of first 3.5 years of the 70th week of Daniel was accomplished during the earthly ministry of Jesus unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.......and all that is left is the 1335 days found in the latter part of chapter 12 of Daniel.

 

[dcontroversal]

1290 days from the start of the tribulation period to the setting up of the image of the beast and the command to worship it....I personally believe that it is highly probable that the sacrifices were done away with the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus and a little shy of first 3.5 years of the 70th week of Daniel was accomplished during the earthly ministry of Jesus unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.......and all that is left is the 1335 days found in the latter part of chapter 12 of Daniel.

Want to add to this....

1335 days divided in the following two ways...

30 Days <--Peace and safety
1260 days of Tribulation<----Image set and command to worship at 1290th day
45 days of wrath

or

1260 Days of tribulation
30 DAYS of peace and safety/image set and command to worship <--Image set and command to worship at 1290th day
45 days of wrath

Not set as to the 30 days being before tribulation or after tribulation yet!

 

[Therapon]

Glad to see you around and getting around, Therapon

Hi brother <grin> Good to see you again, how have you been? I just come on here once in a while to post the latest study and then out of here and back to work. Several months ago, a video production company asked me to do a voice-over exposition of our Bible prophecy Study. No big deal I thought, knock it out in a few days, LOL. Couldn’t have been more wrong, we’ve been at it for weeks and we’re still nowhere near done.

 

[cfultz3]

Hi brother <grin> Good to see you again, how have you been? I just come on here once in a while to post the latest study and then out of here and back to work. Several months ago, a video production company asked me to do a voice-over exposition of our Bible prophecy Study. No big deal I thought, knock it out in a few days, LOL. Couldn’t have been more wrong, we’ve been at it for weeks and we’re still nowhere near done.

I have been well, happy with Life. I would like to have a link to that video once it is done.......that happens to me when trying to fix friends computers....this will take about 20 mins....12 hours later....yes, in 20 mins...

 

[Therapon]

And if they are not successful, what then? Do you admit your whole scheme is wrong or do you back to the drawing board and dream up some alteration(s).

My, my, am I to gather that you disagree? I’ve been standing on the same basic eschatology since 1983, when "Daniel is Out of Chronological Order" was published. Of course I’ve learned a lot since then, so later books fill in a lot of the blanks, but to date, no one has been able to prove any of those early basic tenets scripturally or historically wrong and believe me, some pretty heavy-weight theological types have tried.

Tell you what, in a spirit of Christian love, if you can find a single misquote or misuse of Scripture in "Islam in the End Times," my latest book on Bible prophecy, I will come on this forum, publicly repent, and take all my books off the market. Fair enough?

 

[Therapon]

I have been well, happy with Life. I would like to have a link to that video once it is done.......that happens to me when trying to fix friends computers....this will take about 20 mins....12 hours later....yes, in 20 mins...

We are planning to put the DVD on the www.ellisskolfield.com and www.fishhouseministeries.com sites as a free download.

Twenty or so years ago, we sold our books and CDs, but then the Holy Spirit got all over us, reminding us from Ezekiel that only false prophets tried to sell God’s word. So now, everything Fish House Publishing produces is free. Funny thing though, it didn’t seem to change our balance sheet one bit, the Lord still provides even though we don't sell a thing.

 

[cfultz3]

Such a reality check when you said in your book:

Western leaders refuse to recognize the religious
component of this war so our real enemy is not being confronted
at all. This is a war of belief systems, not guns and bullets, and the
West is fighting it just like the Bible said it might:

1Corinthians 14:8 “For if the trumpet give an uncertain
sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?”​

Indeed, if we do not know we are in a spiritual battle, how can we prepare ourselves for what is coming and is already in some countries?

 

[Kerry]

Leopard is Greece, Bear is the meads and Persians, Lion is Jesus Christ.

 

[Therapon]

Leopard is Greece, Bear is the meads and Persians, Lion is Jesus Christ.

With all due respect, sir, if one stands in Daniel's sandals in 552BC when that prophecy was given, and looks forward from Daniel's time, context identifies the Lion as the Babylonian empire.

 

[Timeline]

With all due respect, sir, if one stands in Daniel's sandals in 552BC when that prophecy was given, and looks forward from Daniel's time, context identifies the Lion as the Babylonian empire.

Daniel 8
8 In the third year of the reign of Belshazzar the king a vision appeared to me, Daniel, subsequent to the one which appeared to me previously. [SUP]2 [/SUP]I looked in the vision, and while I was looking I was in the citadel of Susa, which is in the province of Elam; and I looked in the vision and I myself was beside the Ulai Canal. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Then I lifted my eyes and looked, and behold, a ram...[SUP]20 [/SUP]The ram which you saw with the two horns represents the kings of Media and Persia. [SUP]21 [/SUP]The shaggy goat represents the kingdom of Greece, and the large horn that is between his eyes is the first king. [SUP]22 [/SUP]The broken horn and the four horns that arose in its place represent four kingdoms which will arise from his nation, although not with his power...


I know I'm not showing you anything you haven't seen, but Daniel 7 says that Daniel saw the "Four Beasts" vision in the first year of Belshazzar, but Daniel 8 says that Daniel saw the "Ram and Goat" vision in the third year of Belshazzar - And it starts by saying that it is subsequent to the previous vision. Although I do find it interesting that Daniel 7 writes as if it is telling a story about Daniel, but Daniel 8 Daniel tells the story/vision in first person.

 

[Therapon]

Daniel 8
8 In the third year of the reign of Belshazzar the king a vision appeared to me, Daniel, subsequent to the one which appeared to me previously. [SUP]2 [/SUP]I looked in the vision, and while I was looking I was in the citadel of Susa, which is in the province of Elam; and I looked in the vision and I myself was beside the Ulai Canal. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Then I lifted my eyes and looked, and behold, a ram...[SUP]20 [/SUP]The ram which you saw with the two horns represents the kings of Media and Persia. [SUP]21 [/SUP]The shaggy goat represents the kingdom of Greece, and the large horn that is between his eyes is the first king. [SUP]22 [/SUP]The broken horn and the four horns that arose in its place represent four kingdoms which will arise from his nation, although not with his power...


I know I'm not showing you anything you haven't seen, but Daniel 7 says that Daniel saw the "Four Beasts" vision in the first year of Belshazzar, but Daniel 8 says that Daniel saw the "Ram and Goat" vision in the third year of Belshazzar - And it starts by saying that it is subsequent to the previous vision. Although I do find it interesting that Daniel 7 writes as if it is telling a story about Daniel, but Daniel 8 Daniel tells the story/vision in first person.

Interesting, but even more interesting in my opinion, is that Daniel chapters 2 through 7 were written in Chaldee, the court language of the Babylonians, while chapters 8 through 12 were written in Hebrew. The reason is pretty obvious, the book has two audiences: chapters 2-7 are to and about the Gentile kings and their descendants who will control Jerusalem during "the time of the Gentiles," so named by the Lord Jesus in Luke 21:24. Chapters 8-12 are to the Jewish people during that same "time of the Gentiles." The "time of the Gentiles" ended on June 6, 1967 so we are now in Daniel’s "time of the end," ch. 12:4, 9.

In addition, the book of Daniel is out of chronological order. Chapters 7 and 8 were written before chapter 5 and chapter 9 was written before Daniel 6, though the reason is not so obvious. The new order forms a Hebrew poetic form called a Chiasm and chiasms are repetitive in nature! So chapters 2-7 are not fulfilled sequentially, but are parallel in time, all are fulfilled during "the time of the Gentiles." Chapters 8-12 are parallel to them in time, they are also fulfilled during "the time of the Gentiles." This is all spelled out in the Study Guide on the home page of the ellisskolfield site.

 

[Therapon]

Daniel 7 says that Daniel saw the "Four Beasts" vision in the first year of Belshazzar, but Daniel 8 says that Daniel saw the "Ram and Goat" vision in the third year of Belshazzar - And it starts by saying that it is subsequent to the previous vision. Although I do find it interesting that Daniel 7 writes as if it is telling a story about Daniel, but Daniel 8 Daniel tells the story/vision in first person.

Sorry I didn’t address your interesting observation earlier, it’s a point I missed. Unfortunately at 87, I sometimes lose my train of thought,<wry smile>.

Daniel 2-7 are written Chaldee because they are to and about the Gentile rulers who would control the Jerusalem during "the time of the Gentiles" while Daniel 8-12 are written in Hebrew because those chapters are about the future of the Jewish people during that same "time of the Gentiles."

In the vision of the Four Beasts, Daniel is not an actual participant, only an observer, so isn’t, Daniel 7 in third person because Daniel is not a Gentile and that vision is not actually applicable to him? However, Daniel 8-12 is in Hebrew so those chapters would be applicable not only to his people, but also to him, thus they would logically be stated in first person.

By the way, thank you for your observation, Hebrews 6:1-2.

 

[PlainWord]

 

[PlainWord]

Bookends,

What a fine witness the Jewish state is , a secular nation, who wont even let the Gospel be preached on the streets. Did you ever hear the verse where Jesus said the gates of hades will not over power the church? Matt. 16:18?

Therapon is right about the two witnesses being Israel and the Church. Don't look at the current spiritual state of Israel and disqualify her. We know that 1/3 of Israel will return God in the latter days (Zech 13:9).


Rev 11:4:

These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth.

We don't have to guess what the "olive trees" and "lambstands" represent. We are told.

Rev 1:20:

...and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches.

Rom 11:17:

And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree...

There are two olive trees, the wild one (Gentile) and the natural one (Israel). Just look at this symbol with the two olive branches surrounding the Menorah.

Rev 11:5:

And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner.

Is there any doubt that if anyone messes with Israel they will be killed? Until recently, the same could be said of the USA (the #1 Christian nation in the world).

 

[Therapon]

Bookends,

Therapon is right about the two witnesses being Israel and the Church. Don't look at the current spiritual state of Israel and disqualify her. We know that 1/3 of Israel will return God in the latter days (Zech 13:9).

Rev 11:4: These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth.

We don't have to guess what the "olive trees" and "lambstands" represent. We are told.

Rev 1:20: ...and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches.

Rom 11:17: And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree...

There are two olive trees, the wild one (Gentile) and the natural one (Israel). Just look at this symbol with the two olive branches surrounding the Menorah.

Rev 11:5: And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner.

Is there any doubt that if anyone messes with Israel they will be killed? Until recently, the same could be said of the USA (the #1 Christian nation in the world).

Thank you brother, Until now, I thought I was the only person on CC who accepted those verses as being part of God's inspired word.

 

[PlainWord]

Thank you brother, Until now, I thought I was the only person on CC who accepted those verses as being part of God's inspired word.

Thanks Brother. For those who read Revelation as literal and not spiritual, will miss out on at least 80% of its meaning. For the longest time I thought these witnesses were Elijah and one of Moses or Enoch.

 

[iamsoandso]

Revelations 17;8,,,,"the beast that thou sawest(WAS),and (IS NOT);and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit(NOTE WHERE THE BEAST IS AT THE TIME THE ANGEL WAS SPEAKING TO JOHN),and go into perdition,,,ect.ect.,,,,,,,

(1)Rome was the present kingdom(not in the pit at the time this was told to John)
(2)Egypt,Babylon,Greece,Assyria,Persia all were still in the earth(so not in the bottomless pit when this was said to John)
(3) the Islamic/Muslim belief was not a kingdom that held power over the earth,,,it had not yet come.,,,,,

The beast,was(in the earth before this was written),,was not(in the earth at the time this was written),,,,"BUT WILL RETURN/ASCEND OUT OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT IN THE END),,,,,there's onley two choices,,,is it a beast that existed before the flood,or one of the kingdoms who existed after the flood but was no longer in the earth(existed in the bottomless pit when this was written),,,,?

 

[PlainWord]

2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority.

This is Islam, present favorite is ISIS.