We establish the Law...but how?

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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,704
3,649
113
#1
Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

There's been much ado about that by faith we establish the law as if this is something believers set out to do once they have come to faith in Christ. Not so fast. William Newell may be of help here.

How then, was the Law established? You know very well. All Israel were commanded by Jehovah to stone the man to death. We read: “And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. And they put him in ward, because it had not been declared what should be done to him. And Jehovah said unto Moses The man shall surely be put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him to death with stones; as Jehovah commanded Moses” (Numbers 15:33,ff).

Thus and thus only was the commandment of Jehovah established—by the execution of the penalty. Paul preached Christ crucified: that Christ died for our sins, that “He tasted death for every man.” And that Israel, who were under the Law, He redeemed from the curse of that Law by being made a curse for them. Thus the cross established law; for the full penalty of all that was against the Divine majesty, against God’s holiness. His righteousness, His truth, was forever met, and that not according to man’s conception of what sin and its penalty should be, but according to God’s judgment, according to the measure of the sanctuary, of high heaven itself!

The Jew, prating about his own righteousness, went about to kill Paul, crying that he spake against the Law; whereas it was that very Jew who would lower the Law to his own ability to keep it, instead of allowing it its proper office; namely, to reveal his guilt, curse him, and condemn him to death, and thus drive him to the mercy of God in Christ, whose expiatory death established law by having its penalty executed!

William Newell on Romans 3:31
 
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C

chubbena

Guest
#3
Only when we see the law and the curse of the law as one.
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
#5
Only when we see the law and the curse of the law as one.
Do you mean that people who see the law as only a carnal commandment, they are bound misunderstand the truth that was original intended in the first place?

Romans 8:5-8
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Hope this doesn't turn into one of these needless never ending arguments that permeate CC. :mad:
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#7
Cross this what I have been trying to say. Christ did not abolish the law. The law is from God and therefore good as Paul states. The problem with the law is that no man could keep it in totality. Then sin nature ruled over men. The sacrifices only covered this sin and did not remove it. Remember that God said I require your first born and you could substitute a lamb. OT men were driven to sin and had no release from it. They were slaves to sin. The sacrifice pointed to the promise given to Eve. That she would have a son that Satan would bruise hi heel and He would bruise his head.

Fast forward to the cross. God gave His Firstborn for the freedom of sin for those who had faith in what He did. Then we learn that the Holy Spirit comes and helps us. Helps us to do what? keep Gods moral code I.E the law and when I say law I mean the ten commandments not the Mosaic law. The Mosaic law was given as pretense to the cross. Remember the bronze snake on the pole (the Cross). when the student prophet lost the axe head in the river and Elisha said throw in the stick and the axe head floated ( the cross).

By having faith in the cross and not your works allows the Holy Spirit to produce fruit in you and keep you to God's moral code unless you fall to temptation and if we di He is just to forgive us if we repent.

It is by my Spirit saith Lord lest any man should boast.
 
P

psychomom

Guest
#8
we establish the Law...
we do not lower the bar so we think we can jump over it.
we agree with God that it is Perfect, and only The Perfect One has ever kept it.

establishing the Law means we acknowledge its perfection,
and all its righteous demands.
we agree with God that apart from the Gospel (the Person and Work of Jesus),
no one will inherit eternal life.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#9
The Holy Spirit establishes God's morality in human beings and nothing else. with out the Holy Spirit we toast and fuel for the fires of hell. No man is good no not one.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,704
3,649
113
#10
we establish the Law...
we do not lower the bar so we think we can jump over it.
we agree with God that it is Perfect, and only The Perfect One has ever kept it.

establishing the Law means we acknowledge its perfection,
and all its righteous demands.
we agree with God that apart from the Gospel (the Person and Work of Jesus),
no one will inherit eternal life.
This is essentially the point.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to psychomom again.
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#11
Having been delivered from the Law of sin which is in one's fleshly members through Jesus Christ, we then serve God's Law with our mind/heart (I shall write my Law upon their heart). But, with the flesh, we serve that Law of sin (and death). (Rom 7:23-25)

Seeing that there are two sets of Laws being spoken about, Law of sin and God's Law, and in verse 22, we are told that Paul delights in God's Law, and in verse 23, we see that the Law of sin wars against that Law which God placed in our mind/heart, then we can conclude that the Law of sin is the Law which we have been liberated from and brought under the Law of the Spirit sent by Christ known as God's Law.

Have we been liberated from God's Laws which are fulfilled by Jesus' command: Love....? Does not the Spirit have law?

You asked how do we establish the Law? We don't establish 'the Law', neither do we 'make void the Law' (KJV inserted the definite article in both instances). With that said, the question in Rom 3:31 is, 'Do we then make void law through faith? May it not be so. Yes, we establish law'. That is, we Christian are still under law. Specifically, that Law from the Spirit which walks us in love and by which love, we do fulfill God's Law, the same Law Christ commanded of us to fulfill. And as to the rest of 'the Law', Christ took care of that for us....

So, through faith, we do not void law, we establish law. That is, faith is not the instrument which is used (through) to void law, but is the instrument which is used (through) to establish law.

Let us all say, 'Lead on Spirit'.
 
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WomanLovesTX

Senior Member
Jan 1, 2010
1,390
38
0
#12
But what 'establishes' the law?
Let's start with simple definitions. Here is Websters:

Establish
ESTAB'LISH, v.t. [L. stabilio; Heb. to set, fix, establish.]

1. To set and fix firmly or unalterably; to settle permanently.

I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant. Gen 17.

2. To found permanently; to erect and fix or settle; as, to establish a colony or an empire.

3. To enact or decree by authority and for permanence; to ordain; to appoint; as, to establish laws, regulations, institutions, rules, ordinances, &c.

4. To settle or fix; to confirm; as, to establish a person, society or corporation, in possessions or privileges.

5. To make firm; to confirm; to ratify what has been previously set or made.

Do we then make void the law through faith?

God forbid; yea, we establish the law. Rom 3.

6. To settle or fix what is wavering, doubtful or weak; to confirm.

So were the churches established in the faith. Acts 16.

To the end he may establish your hearts unblamable in

holiness. l Thess.3.

7. To confirm; to fulfill; to make good.

Establish thy word to thy servant. Psa 119

8. To set up in the place of another and confirm.

Who go about to establish their own righteousness. Rom 10.

NOW, LET US GO TO STRONG'S TO UNDERSTAND "ESTABLISH" AND RELATED WORDS IN THE LXX:

G2476
ἵστημι
histēmi
his'-tay-mee
A prolonged form of a primary word στάω staō (of the same meaning, and used for it in certain tenses); to stand (transitively or intransitively), used in various applications (literally or figuratively): - abide, appoint, bring, continue, covenant, establish, hold up, lay, present, set (up), stanch, stand (by, forth, still, up). Compare G5087.

LXX related word(s)
H914 badal hi.
H1129 banah
H1362 gaval
H1826 damam
H1916 hadom
H1961 hayah
H2654 chaphets
H3245 yasad pi.
H3318 yatsa
H3320 yatsav hithp.
H3322 yatsag hi.
H3332 yatsaq qal,hi
H3335 yatsar
H3427 yashav
H3559 kun ni,hi
H3772 karat
H4060 middah
H5186 natah
H5193 nata
H5324 natsav ni., hi.
H5414 natan
H5564 samakh
H5650 eved
H5674 avar
H5674 avar hi.
H5927 alah
H5975 amad qal,hi,ho
H6524 parach hi.
H6965 qum qal,pi,hi,ho
H7126 qarav
H7311 rum hi.
H7760 sum
H7931 shakhan
H8254 shaqal qal,ni
H8511 tala
H8625 teqal peil.
H8628 taqa

CAN WE UNDERSTAND "LAW":

1Ch 16:15 Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations;
1Ch 16:16 Even of the covenant which he made with Abraham, and of his oath unto Isaac;
1Ch 16:17 And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant,

Is the everlasting covenant a law? Is the law we establish (stand firm on) the promises of the everlasting covenant?

Deu_29:21 And the LORD shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the covenant that are written in this book of the law:

Deu_31:9 And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and unto all the elders of Israel.

Deu_31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

1Ch_16:17 And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant,

Ezr_10:3 Now therefore let us make a covenant with our God to put away all the wives, and such as are born of them, according to the counsel of my lord, and of those that tremble at the commandment of our God; and let it be done according to the law.

Psa_78:10 They kept not the covenant of God, and refused to walk in his law;

Psa_105:10 And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant:

Isa_24:5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

Jer_31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Hos_8:1 Set the trumpet to thy mouth. He shall come as an eagle against the house of the LORD, because they have transgressed my covenant, and trespassed against my law.

Mal_2:8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

Rom_9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Gal_3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Heb_8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Heb_10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

The COVENANT IS THE LAW. THERE SHOULD BE NO SEPARATING THE TWO!!

Exo_34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
Deu_4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#13
How do we establish the law ?

We establish it by walking in love as commanded.
We are told to love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, and mind; Love our neighbors as ourselves; and love our enemies, and do good to them.

By walking this way we establish the law in our heart, and others then see it by how caring, helpful, and giving we are.
If you walk in the love the bible speaks of, their will be no hatred, malice, or evil that can control you no longer.
 

WomanLovesTX

Senior Member
Jan 1, 2010
1,390
38
0
#14
The Holy Spirit establishes God's morality in human beings and nothing else. with out the Holy Spirit we toast and fuel for the fires of hell. No man is good no not one.
Act_5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
 

WomanLovesTX

Senior Member
Jan 1, 2010
1,390
38
0
#15
Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

There's been much ado about that by faith we establish the law as if this is something believers set out to do once they have come to faith in Christ. Not so fast. William Newell may be of help here.

How then, was the Law established? You know very well. All Israel were commanded by Jehovah to stone the man to death. We read: “And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. And they put him in ward, because it had not been declared what should be done to him. And Jehovah said unto Moses The man shall surely be put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him to death with stones; as Jehovah commanded Moses” (Numbers 15:33,ff).

Thus and thus only was the commandment of Jehovah established—by the execution of the penalty. Paul preached Christ crucified: that Christ died for our sins, that “He tasted death for every man.” And that Israel, who were under the Law, He redeemed from the curse of that Law by being made a curse for them. Thus the cross established law; for the full penalty of all that was against the Divine majesty, against God’s holiness. His righteousness, His truth, was forever met, and that not according to man’s conception of what sin and its penalty should be, but according to God’s judgment, according to the measure of the sanctuary, of high heaven itself!

The Jew, prating about his own righteousness, went about to kill Paul, crying that he spake against the Law; whereas it was that very Jew who would lower the Law to his own ability to keep it, instead of allowing it its proper office; namely, to reveal his guilt, curse him, and condemn him to death, and thus drive him to the mercy of God in Christ, whose expiatory death established law by having its penalty executed!

William Newell on Romans 3:31
The Commandments (ie. The Law) was not just for curses.

Deu_11:26 Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;
Deu_11:27 A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day:

Num_15:31 Because he has had contempt for the word of Adonai and has disobeyed his command, that person will be cut off completely; his offense will remain with him.' "
Pro_6:20 My son, obey your father's command, and don't abandon your mother's teaching.
Pro_7:2 Obey my commands, and live; guard my teaching like the pupil of your eye.
Ecc_8:5 Whoever obeys his command will never come to harm, and the wise person will know the right time and judgment.
Mat_28:20 and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember! I will be with you always, yes, even until the end of the age."
Luk_8:25 Then he said to the talmidim, "Where is your trust?" Awestruck, they marveled, asking one another, "Who can this be, that he commands even the wind and the water, and they obey him?"
1Jn_2:3 The way we can be sure we know him is if we are obeying his commands.
1Jn_2:4 Anyone who says, "I know him," but isn't obeying his commands is a liar — the truth is not in him.
1Jn_3:22 then, whatever we ask for, we receive from him; because we are obeying his commands and doing the things that please him.
1Jn_3:24 Those who obey his commands remain united with him and he with them. Here is how we know that he remains united with us: by the Spirit whom he gave us.
1Jn_5:3 For loving God means obeying his commands. Moreover, his commands are not burdensome,
Rev_12:17 The dragon was infuriated over the woman and went off to fight the rest of her children, those who obey God's commands and bear witness to Yeshua.
 
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Trailblazer

Senior Member
Sep 8, 2014
432
30
18
#16
If it were not for the law. We may not know that we are sinners. No man or woman can uphold the law being in the flesh.
So we are saved by faith. Jesus also says, Those that know me and Love me. will do my will.For my sheep know my voice. (Words to that effect) So being saved by faith does not mean we can do as we wish. I believe there is scripture saying those who attempt to live by the law shall be judged by the law. Jesus works in ones heart. Why then is there so much Bible text arguments going on? This all seems so easy and makes sense too me.:p
 
Dec 9, 2011
13,703
1,715
113
#17
When we keep the two commandments that JESUS gave us,and its his workmanship.
love in truth (the inward man is perfected)
 

vic1980

Senior Member
Apr 25, 2013
1,653
199
63
44
#18
Paul Teaching them a important lesson.

Romans 8:4
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh,
but after the Spirit.

Paul teaching the Galatians a important lesson.

Galatians 5:22-24

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Verse 24 does not get much attention on the forums, it should be focus on also by putting on the armor/Christ ,we don't want to look clean only on the outside but also on the inside.

Jesus spoke unto the pharisees at one point.

Matthew 23:26
Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Now that we have the promise of the holyspirit , let the Lord God almighty use everyone of us to do His work.

Phillipians 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.


God Bless
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#19
It's about time the law came up around here! LOL!
 

Trailblazer

Senior Member
Sep 8, 2014
432
30
18
#20
GALATIONS 5:16-25
Life by the Spirit. 5:22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness and self control. Against such things there is no law.
I would think with this said. I would think my prayers should be. Lord fill me with your Holy Spirit daily.

I see post #18 posted GALATIONS 5 before me.
I knew you guys know scripture. silly for me to look something up and attempt to post on time. lol
 
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