Who make up this 144,000 at Rev 7:4 ? Explain Please

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Apr 14, 2014
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#1
(Revelation 7:4) And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel:

Ok I have been doing some research and I'm coming up Blank who are these people that make up the 144,000 are they saints holy ones? why are they sealed?

Explain Please:
Please give any scriptures to help further explain who they are thanks

All I know it that it is a exact number because then the next scripture gives attention to a great crowd which no man is able to number, so then that would have to conclude that 144,000 would be exact figure. which we can number. Not a symbolic one.
 
K

Kaycie

Guest
#2
(Revelation 7:4) And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel:

Ok I have been doing some research and I'm coming up Blank who are these people that make up the 144,000 are they saints holy ones? why are they sealed?

Explain Please:
Please give any scriptures to help further explain who they are thanks

All I know it that it is a exact number because then the next scripture gives attention to a great crowd which no man is able to number, so then that would have to conclude that 144,000 would be exact figure. which we can number. Not a symbolic one.
The 144,000 are the saved from the old testament- from the 12 tribes of Israel (Jacob's 12 Sons became the 12 tribes of Israel)...

Revelation 7:4 And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:
5 12,000 from the tribe of Judah were sealed,
12,000 from the tribe of Reuben,
12,000 from the tribe of Gad,
6 12,000 from the tribe of Asher,
12,000 from the tribe of Naphtali,
12,000 from the tribe of Manasseh,
7 12,000 from the tribe of Simeon,
12,000 from the tribe of Levi,
12,000 from the tribe of Issachar,
8 12,000 from the tribe of Zebulun,
12,000 from the tribe of Joseph,
12,000 from the tribe of Benjamin were sealed.

But as for those saved from new testament times...

Rev. 7: 9 After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”

 
Apr 14, 2014
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#3
what is the purpose for there sealment and why were they saved?
 
Jun 4, 2014
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#4
144000 represents the culmination of the end of the rule of man. "Are there not 12 hours in a day"? But a day consisting of evening and morning is 24 hours! Each day of 12000 in the evening and 12000 in the morning. 6 days of this brings us to 144000.
 
Apr 14, 2014
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#5
I need scriptures too not just words I cant trust earthly men on what they say is true, unless I see scriptures, not to be mean but I want a full understanding

Where did you come up with these "hours" how is it people are turned in to hours?

I do understand what you are saying, But what would 6 days have to do with the tribes?

I'm not looking for a short answer I want to know the means behind it.
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
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#6
(Revelation 7:4) And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel:

Ok I have been doing some research and I'm coming up Blank who are these people that make up the 144,000 are they saints holy ones? why are they sealed?

Explain Please:
Please give any scriptures to help further explain who they are thanks

All I know it that it is a exact number because then the next scripture gives attention to a great crowd which no man is able to number, so then that would have to conclude that 144,000 would be exact figure. which we can number. Not a symbolic one.
I have always thought that the 144,000 were groomsmen for the marriage of the Lamb.

Revelation 14:1-3
1 And I looked , and, lo , a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

Revelation 19:7-9
7 Let us be glad and rejoice , and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come , and his wife hath made herself ready .
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9 And he saith unto me, Write , Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
#7
(Revelation 7:4) And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel:

Ok I have been doing some research and I'm coming up Blank who are these people that make up the 144,000 are they saints holy ones? why are they sealed?

Explain Please:
Please give any scriptures to help further explain who they are thanks

All I know it that it is a exact number because then the next scripture gives attention to a great crowd which no man is able to number, so then that would have to conclude that 144,000 would be exact figure. which we can number. Not a symbolic one.
You know your gonna get answers from all over the place? don't you? LOL... Why can't an exact number be symbolic, I can give multiple exact numbers from the bible that are symbolic.
 
Jun 4, 2014
1,849
9
0
#8
I need scriptures too not just words I cant trust earthly men on what they say is true, unless I see scriptures, not to be mean but I want a full understanding

Where did you come up with these "hours" how is it people are turned in to hours?

I do understand what you are saying, But what would 6 days have to do with the tribes?

I'm not looking for a short answer I want to know the means behind it.
John 2

2 And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:


2 And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.


3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.


4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.

This is all parabolic language. The third day is in reference to the middle of the 6 days of man. The woman is in reference to not His mom but the woman in Revelation.

John 11

7 Then after that saith he to his disciples, Let us go into Judaea again.


8 His disciples say unto him, Master, the Jews of late sought to stone thee; and goest thou thither again?


9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.


10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.

I'm tired so I will finish this later for you.
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,551
2,171
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#9
I believe that the 144,000 as sealed before the great tribulation happens in order to go through that tribulation as in the first few verses of Revelation 14 it is talking about the angels holding back the four winds of strife. I also believe that they will be alive when Jesus returns to this earth.

Revelation 14:3 says - The hundred and forty-four thousand and those with them were singing a new song before the One sitting on the throne and before the four living beings and the twenty-four elders. Only those who had gone through the last great trouble could sing the song of victory as they did. verse 4 - These are the ones who had not corrupted themselves but resisted all spiritual seduction and are as pure in faith as virgins. They had been loyal to the Lamb and had faithfully followed Him wherever He led. They were offered to God and to the Lamb as first fruits of earth's final harvest.
 
Jul 27, 2011
1,622
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#10
Door 1, 2, or 3? You'll get more than 1 answer and if you really want to know, and if it really matters that much, you will know. i've heard different reasons, but it doesn't matter to me. i trust the Almighty has it covered.
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,551
2,171
113
#11
P.S. God knows for sure who the 144,000 are as He will seal them.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
#12
1. We must take note that Revelation is highly symbolic and barrows many images from the OT. We must aware of the genre of Revelation and interpret accordingly.

2. Chapter 7 and 14 is the only place that mentions the 144000. So we must glean and deduct most of our information about them here.

3. We should take notice chapter is an interlude between the 6th and 7th seal.

4. We should take note at the end of chapter 6 the question is asked, "For the great day of His wrath has come, who can stand?" (pasted tense). Chapter 7 answers the question.

5. What does it mean to be a virgin? Is it a literal virgin, whereas no man had sex with a woman or is it God's people, a follower of Christ (Follower's of Christ)? For God's people are depicted in scripture as pure bride given to Christ (1 Corinthians 11:2, Ephesians 5:22-33, Revelation 19:7-9, 21:2;9, Isaiah 54:5, Jeremiah 2:2, Psalm 45:14-15)

6. Notice verse 14 in Chapter 7 is present tense, John is seeing this going on at the time of his vision, "13 Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, “Who are these,clothed in white robes, and from where have they come?”14 I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the onescoming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Here is a hint of what I think is going on here;


1. Romans 1:16, 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ,[a] for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

Acts 1:8, 8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem (1st), and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth (2nd).”


2. Matthew 21:33-45,
33 “Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country. 34 Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit.35 And the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another. 36 Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them. 37 Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 38 But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ 39 So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him.
40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?”
41 They said to Him, “He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons.”
42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

‘The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone.
This was the Lord’s doing,
And it is marvelous in our eyes’?[j]


43 “Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. 44 And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder.
45 Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they perceived that He was speaking of them. 46 But when they sought to lay hands on Him, they feared the multitudes, because they took Him for a prophet.

Matthew 22:1-14


22 And Jesus answered and spoke to them again by parables and said: 2 “The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who arranged a marriage for his son,3 and sent out his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding; and they were not willing to come. 4 Again, he sent out other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and fatted cattle are killed, and all things are ready. Come to the wedding.”’5 But they made light of it and went their ways, one to his own farm, another to his business. 6 And the rest seized his servants, treated them spitefully, and killed them.7 But when the king heard about it, he was furious. And he sent out his armies, destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.8 Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy. 9 Therefore go into the highways, and as many as you find, invite to the wedding.’ 10 So those servants went out into the highways and gathered together all whom they found, both bad and good. And the wedding hall was filled with guests.
11 “But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment. 12 So he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and[a] cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
14 “For many are called, but few are chosen.”
 
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A

Alligator

Guest
#13
The 144,000 are the saved from the old testament- from the 12 tribes of Israel (Jacob's 12 Sons became the 12 tribes of Israel)...

Revelation 7:4 And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:
5 12,000 from the tribe of Judah were sealed,
12,000 from the tribe of Reuben,
12,000 from the tribe of Gad,
6 12,000 from the tribe of Asher,
12,000 from the tribe of Naphtali,
12,000 from the tribe of Manasseh,
7 12,000 from the tribe of Simeon,
12,000 from the tribe of Levi,
12,000 from the tribe of Issachar,
8 12,000 from the tribe of Zebulun,
12,000 from the tribe of Joseph,
12,000 from the tribe of Benjamin were sealed.

But as for those saved from new testament times...

Rev. 7: 9 After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”

Interesting"..".....................
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
#14
The 144,000 are the saved from the old testament- from the 12 tribes of Israel (Jacob's 12 Sons became the 12 tribes of Israel)...

Revelation 7:4 And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:
5 12,000 from the tribe of Judah were sealed,
12,000 from the tribe of Reuben,
12,000 from the tribe of Gad,
6 12,000 from the tribe of Asher,
12,000 from the tribe of Naphtali,
12,000 from the tribe of Manasseh,
7 12,000 from the tribe of Simeon,
12,000 from the tribe of Levi,
12,000 from the tribe of Issachar,
8 12,000 from the tribe of Zebulun,
12,000 from the tribe of Joseph,
12,000 from the tribe of Benjamin were sealed.

But as for those saved from new testament times...

Rev. 7: 9 After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”

What doesn't fit IMO, is in Revelation 14 verse 4 where in describing the 144000 it states they were the first fruits unto God and the Lamb (Christ). In the book of James, James describes his audience in verse 1:1 as the 12 tribes of Israel and then in verse 18 of chapter 1 he calls them the first fruits. The first fruits of Christ where the 12 disciples, the 120 in the upper room before pentecost, the 3000 and 5000 saved recording in acts, in other words, the 144000 is a symbolic number representing the first Jewish converted Christians in the first century.
 
K

Kaycie

Guest
#15
What doesn't fit IMO, is in Revelation 14 verse 4 where in describing the 144000 it states they were the first fruits unto God and the Lamb (Christ). In the book of James, James describes his audience in verse 1:1 as the 12 tribes of Israel and then in verse 18 of chapter 1 he calls them the first fruits. The first fruits of Christ where the 12 disciples, the 120 in the upper room before pentecost, the 3000 and 5000 saved recording in acts, in other words, the 144000 is a symbolic number representing the first Jewish converted Christians in the first century.
God's people from the old testament (tribes of Israel/Jacob) (the 144,000) are the first fruits to God- they are the first people of God. Until John 1:11-13- Jesus came to His own people but His own people did not receive Him, so He switched to adoption- so that whoever would receive Him, no matter what nationality they were physically, could become children of God not by natural decent- these are the second fruits. But it was hard for the first fruits to accept the second fruits- so there is some new testament scripture aimed at the first fruits, though what was written to them are also for us- just like the letters written to the churches in Thesalinica (Thessalonians) and Colosse (Colossians) are also for us. James 1:1 is talking to those who were God's people physically (even though they also had to be adopted because God switched to adoption through baptism).

The bible says it clearly in Revelation 7:9 that this group that no one could number was from every nationality. But at first, in the old testament, people mostly had to be born into one nationality in order to be God's people. So this group (that no one could number) had to be after John 1:11-13 when God switched to adopting from every nationality.

Conclusion: The 144,000 are the saved from the old testament, and the group no one could number are the saved from the new testament.
 
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Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
#16
God's people from the old testament (tribes of Israel/Jacob) (the 144,000) are the first fruits to God- they are the first people of God. Until John 1:11-13- Jesus came to His own people but His own people did not receive Him, so He switched to adoption- so that whoever would receive Him, no matter what nationality they were physically, could become children of God not by natural decent- these are the second fruits. But it was hard for the first fruits to accept the second fruits- so there is some new testament scripture aimed at the first fruits, though what was written to them are also for us- just like the letters written to the churches in Thesalinica (Thessalonians) and Colosse (Colossians) are also for us. James 1:1 is talking to those who were God's people physically (even though they also had to be adopted because God switched to adoption through baptism).

The bible says it clearly in Revelation 7:9 that this group that no one could number was from every nationality. But at first, in the old testament, people mostly had to be born into one nationality in order to be God's people. So this group had to be after John 1:11-13 when God switched to adopting from every nationality.
I must respective disagree. Paul says that not all of Israel is Israel in Romans 9. What does Paul mean by this, he meant that just because someone was born a Jew didn't automatically make them God's spiritual children. It was one who was circumcised inwardly, meaning the heart, what makes a person a true Jew Romans 2. God was never a respecter of persons, God's election never was meant to held by one ethnic group. Ancient Israel was to go out and be a beacon on a hill draw people on the outside to the LORD. You see this in scripture, at the exodus, in the Leviticus laws regarding foreigners, the story of Rahab, the story of Ruth and the story of Esther.

Yes in John 1 Jesus came to His people, Jesus was a Jew, and His people rejected Him, but not all. All the ones I mentioned in post 14, the first followers of Christ, a remnant of Israel. These are the first fruits of the Lamb. The second fruits are the gentiles. James specifically address the 12 tribes of Israel who have been scattered abroad, I believe the Jewish converts James is writing were under more persecution then gentile converts, because the Jews hated them more (which is why James probably wrote his letter). God though out all of time had 1 people! Those who obey Him.

In group 2, Revelation 7:9, I believe John is seeing all the saints either as a whole, or the ones added to the first fruits, gentiles.
 
B

biscuit

Guest
#17
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[TD="width: 593, align: left"][h=1]Who are the 144,000?[/h]
Question: "Who are the 144,000?"

Answer:
The book of Revelation has always presented the interpreter with challenges. The book is steeped in vivid imagery and symbolism which people have interpreted differently depending on their preconceptions of the book as a whole. There are four main interpretive approaches to the book of Revelation: 1) preterist (which sees all or most of the events in Revelation as having already occurred by the end of the 1st century); 2) historicist (which sees Revelation as a survey of church history from apostolic times to the present); 3) idealist (which sees Revelation as a depiction of the struggle between good and evil); 4) futurist (which sees Revelation as prophecy of events to come). Of the four, only the futurist approach interprets Revelation in the same grammatical-historical method as the rest of Scripture. It is also a better fit with Revelation’s own claim to be prophecy (Revelation 1:3; 22:7, 10, 18, 19).

So the answer to the question “who are the 144,000?” will depend on which interpretive approach you take to the book of Revelation. With the exception of the futurist approach, all of the other approaches interpret the 144,000 symbolically, as representative of the church and the number 144,000 being symbolic of the totality—i.e., the complete number—of the church. Yet when taken at face value: “Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel” (Revelation 7:4), nothing in the passage leads to interpreting the 144,000 as anything but a literal number of Jews—12,000 taken from every tribe of the “sons of Israel.” The New Testament offers no clear cut text replacing Israel with the church.

These Jews are “sealed,” which means they have the special protection of God from all of the divine judgments and from the Antichrist to perform their mission during the tribulation period (see Revelation 6:17, in which people will wonder who can stand from the wrath to come). The tribulation period is a future seven-year period of time in which God will enact divine judgment against those who reject Him and will complete His plan of salvation for the nation of Israel. All of this is according to God’s revelation to the prophet Daniel (Daniel 9:24–27). The 144,000 Jews are a sort of “first fruits” (Revelation 14:4) of a redeemed Israel which has been previously prophesied (Zechariah 12:10;Romans 11:25–27), and their mission seems to be to evangelize the post-rapture world and proclaim the gospel during the tribulation period. As a result of their ministry, millions—“a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language” (Revelation 7:9)—will come to faith in Christ.

Much of the confusion regarding the 144,000 is a result of the false doctrine of theJehovah's Witnesses. The Jehovah’s Witnesses claim that 144,000 is a limit to the number of people who will reign with Christ in heaven and spend eternity with God. The 144,000 have what the Jehovah’s Witnesses call the heavenly hope. Those who are not among the 144,000 will enjoy what they call the earthly hope—a paradise on earth ruled by Christ and the 144,000. Clearly, we can see that Jehovah’s Witness teaching sets up a caste society in the afterlife with a ruling class (the 144,000) and those who are ruled. The Bible teaches no such “dual class” doctrine. It is true that according to Revelation 20:4there will be people ruling in the millennium with Christ. These people will be comprised of the church (believers in Jesus Christ), Old Testament saints (believers who died before Christ’s first advent), and tribulation saints (those who accept Christ during the tribulation). Yet the Bible places no numerical limit on this group of people. Furthermore, the millennium is different from the eternal state, which will take place at the completion of the millennial period. At that time, God will dwell with us in the New Jerusalem. He will be our God and we will be His people (Revelation 21:3). The inheritance promised to us in Christ and sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14) will become ours, and we will all be co-heirs with Christ (Romans 8:17).

Recommended Resources: Understanding End Times Prophecy by Paul Benware andLogos Bible Software.

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L

Last

Guest
#18
144,000 is not a literal number, it is figurative.
 
K

Kaycie

Guest
#19
I must respective disagree. Paul says that not all of Israel is Israel in Romans 9. What does Paul mean by this, he meant that just because someone was born a Jew didn't automatically make them God's spiritual children. It was one who was circumcised inwardly, meaning the heart, what makes a person a true Jew Romans 2. God was never a respecter of persons, God's election never was meant to held by one ethnic group. Ancient Israel was to go out and be a beacon on a hill draw people on the outside to the LORD. You see this in scripture, at the exodus, in the Leviticus laws regarding foreigners, the story of Rahab, the story of Ruth and the story of Esther.

Yes in John 1 Jesus came to His people, Jesus was a Jew, and His people rejected Him, but not all. All the ones I mentioned in post 14, the first followers of Christ, a remnant of Israel. These are the first fruits of the Lamb. The second fruits are the gentiles. James specifically address the 12 tribes of Israel who have been scattered abroad, I believe the Jewish converts James is writing were under more persecution then gentile converts, because the Jews hated them more (which is why James probably wrote his letter). God though out all of time had 1 people! Those who obey Him.

In group 2, Revelation 7:9, I believe John is seeing all the saints either as a whole, or the ones added to the first fruits, gentiles.
You said "Just because someone was born a Jew didn't automatically make them God's spiritual children" This is also what I was saying (after John 1"11-13)- we are saying the same thing here.

You mentioned the story of Rahab- This is also why I said "people (in old testament) MOSTLY had to be born in one nationality. Again we are saying the same thing here. Even though God made exceptions like this, MOSTLY you had to be born into that nationality in old testament times.

You said "These are the first fruits of the Lamb. The second fruits are the Gentiles" Again, we are saying the same thing- except instead of "Gentiles" I said "those who were adopted not by natural decent"

God throughout time had one people- those who obeyed Him. I agree, but I believe that God knowing who would obey Him and who wouldn't put mostly those who would obey Him- those souls into the physical bodies of the old testament Israelite nation.

Again, and I think we agree, the 144,000 were the saved (first fruits) from the old testament, and the great multitude that no one could number are the saved from new testament times. Revelation 7:13,14 even says who they are...

REVELATION 7:13,14...

13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”
14 I answered, “Sir, you know.”
And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. (baptism)
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
41,304
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Tennessee
#20
144,000 is not a literal number, it is figurative.
What makes you think that this number is figurative? What about the 200 million man army that is going to march on Israel, is that figurative too? That is currently the total number of soldiers in the army that China has. There is no reason to believe that the numbers that are mentioned in the bible are figurative, and even one of the books of the bible is Numbers.