Is Antichrist from Rome or Islam?

Jackson123 · Sep 21, 2014

Seem reasonable,

Antichrist is Christ impostor. Can he be Jews Impostor?

[h=1]Pope Francis: ‘Inside Every Christian Is A Jew'[/h] Religion News Service | By Josephine McKenna

Posted: 06/13/2014 2:33 pm EDT Updated: 06/13/2014 2:59 pm EDT

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Pope Francis smiles as he waves to faithful at the end of his weekly general audience in St. Peter's Square at the Vatican, Wednesday, June 11, 2014. (AP Photo/Gregorio Borgia)
VATICAN CITY (RNS) Underscoring the close ties between Christianity and Judaism and calling Holocaust denial “madness,” Pope Francis told an interviewer that “inside every Christian is a Jew.”
In a wide-ranging interview published Friday (June 13) in Spain’s La Vanguardia newspaper, the pope said dialogue between the two faiths can sometimes be a “hot potato.”
“I believe that interreligious dialogue must investigate the Jewish roots of Christianity and the Christian flowering of Judaism,” Francis said. “I understand it is a challenge, a hot potato, but it is possible to live as brothers.”

Francis’ statement seems to go further than his predecessor, St. John Paul II, who made headlines in 1986 as the first pope to visit Rome’s main synagogue and declared Jews to be the “elder brothers” of the Christian faith.
“Every day, I pray with the Psalms of David. My prayer is Jewish, then I have the Eucharist, which is Christian,” the Argentine pontiff added.
The pope also took the opportunity to criticize Holocaust denial as “madness” while defending the record of Pope Pius XII, who led the Roman Catholic Church during World War II.
Francis will soon have to decide whether to advance the sainthood cause for the controversial wartime pope, who is accused of failing to speak out publicly against the mass murder of Jews. For years, Jewish leaders and Nazi hunters have demanded the Vatican open up its secret wartime files.
Francis said he was concerned about “everything which has been thrown at poor Pius XII,” while stressing that he sheltered Jews in the convents of Rome and other Italian cities, as well as the popes’ summer residence in Castel Gadolfo.
“I do not mean to say that Pius XII did not make mistakes — I make many mistakes myself — but his role must be read in the context of the time,” Pope Francis said.
Francis added that he breaks out in an “existential rash” when he hears people speak against Pius and the church’s wartime record while ignoring inaction by the Allies fighting against Nazi Germany.
“Did you know that they knew perfectly well the rail network used by the Nazis to take the Jews to the concentration camps? They had photographs,” he said. “But they did not bomb these rail lines. Why? It would be nice if we spoke a little bit about everything.”
During Friday’s interview with the Barcelona daily, Francis was also asked about his own security, saying he refused to travel in a bulletproof “sardine can” vehicle because he wants to mingle with ordinary people.
“It is true that anything can happen, but let’s face it, at my age I have nothing to lose,” the 77-year-old pontiff said.
The former archbishop of Buenos Aires was also asked how he would like to be remembered as a pope.
“I have not thought about that,” Francis said. “But I like it when you remember someone and say ‘He was a good guy, he did what he could, and he was not that bad.’ I would be happy with that.”

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Kerry · Sep 21, 2014

But Israel will not accept that, they are looking for the Messiah that will set them free from all their troubles and they know from scripture that He is a son of David. They will not accept a gentile.

dcontroversal · Sep 21, 2014

Kerry said:

Something to ponder....Abraham had two sons and 24 tribes total...cast out the bond woman and her son? are not the Ishmaelites A.K.A ARABS, also tied to Abraham and if the A.C. is from them..could that statement also apply to one that would come from them? NO regard for the God of his FATHERS...they all claim Abraham, yet worship a very different God than Abraham....Just a thought to ponder.

Jackson123 · Sep 21, 2014

Kerry said:

Seem reasonable, but is not possible gentile pretend to be Jews?

We don't have pedigree of the descendent of David, it make easier to cheat.

Kerry · Sep 21, 2014

Well fathers is plural and would suggest Abraham, Issac , and Jacob Not Ishmael and his sons as they did not serve God. Yes with today's technology a person could falsify their heredity. But at the same time, as the scrutinized Christ, Israel will scrutinize him as well and their not stupid. In my personal opinion, he will provide documents true our false showing that he is a descendant of David, I meant how else can he persuade them to follow him?

Kerry · Sep 22, 2014

I would also like to add that if the Bible states that he rejects the God of his fathers, then I take it as truth, I meant why would God lie?

Jackson123 · Sep 22, 2014

Kerry said:

Just alternative interpretation, it may weak.

1. a. He, on Kings, can it refer to some thing else/ not Antichrist?
b. In English version, God with Capital G. And I know it mean God of Abraham. I don't Know about original bible. Did it said JHWE?

Likewise with Daniel 11. Can it be miss translation? It said no regard any god.

Say his father is Islam, no regard of any god, mean no regard Allah.

Say his father is Catholic, no regard any god mean no regard Jesus Catholic version.

Just ponder.

doulos · Sep 22, 2014

dcontroversal said:

???????????? This makes absolutely no sense nor does it address any of the questions I have asked. Would you like to try and explain this again in a clear concise manner? Please quit obfuscating and address the issues we are discussing!

I understand your reluctance to discuss this as you have repeatedly demonstrated you are unable to address the issues raised and keep grabbing at straws to defend a belief that has been proven to be in error..

If it is so obvious then why not provide Scriptural proof that the leopard, bear and lion beast of Rev13:1-2, the little horn, and the man of sin are the same entity? Why is it all you have to offer is your insistence they are the same entity? Where is your Scriptural proof? You have shown no proof, all you have demonstrated is that the little horn has some shared characteristics with the beast. But that really isn't proof is it? By that line of reasoning I could claim that my dog Zeke is a person because he shares some characteristics with people, but we both know that couldn't be true, dogs are not people. If the man of sin is an end time world ruler as you claim then why can't you show scriptural justification for your belief? You have been shown Scripture that positively demonstrates beasts are kingdoms (Dan7:23), yet you reject the definition our unchanging God/Word provides? Why?

Once again your reasoning is in error. Break your personal pronoun down a little further and you will find that terms like he, him her, she etc... are third person pronouns. To claim that just because the beasts in Revelation are referred to in the third person pronoun proves that beasts have to be people is incorrect. There are many times in Scripture where a third person pronoun is used in reference to both cities and kingdoms. So just because a kingdom is referred to in the third person pronoun does not prove the beast is a person, nor does it prove that my belief that beasts are kingdoms is in error. Do you need an example from Scripture demonstrating that third person pronouns has been used in Scripture for kingdoms?

Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

There are more but I think that if you are honest you can see that your line of reasoning is lacking. By your line of reasoning we would have to believe that both Israel and Judah were people. We both know that is incorrect. Your grabbing at straws to justify your failed claims.

I understand that what you have been shown does not match your doctrine concerning eschatology. If our doctrine disagrees with Scripture we should change our doctrine to match Scripture, instead of attempting to force fit Scriptures to an incorrect doctrine.

Jackson123 · Sep 22, 2014

There are two group that demonstrate to have ambition and plan for take over the world.
Are they working together secretly?

1. Catholic.
[h=2]The Vatican Calls for World Government - Forbes[/h]www.forbes.com/.../2011/10/25/the-vatican-calls-for-world-government

[h=1]The Vatican Calls for World Government[/h] Comment Now Follow Comments Following Comments Unfollow Comments

That isn’t just the implication it’s the explicit call in the latest from the Vatican: that we need to move to a system of world government:

If Vatican cardinals have yet to join the Occupy Wall Street protesters, a document released by the Holy See calling for a “world authority” to crack down on capitalism suggests some are considering it.

Alphaville has a bit of fun quoting scripture back at them here. The full

2. Islam

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]The Muslim Plan For World Dominance
Bringing The World Under Sharia Law

"I don't think you can overstate the importance that the rise of Islamic fundamentalism will have to the rest of the world in the century ahead-especially if, as seems possible, its most fanatical elements get their hands on nuclear and chemical weapons and the means to deliver them against their enemies." --Ronald Reagan

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]By those that practice it, it is called a "religion of peace". There are those, however, who
would disagree with that statement. Some people see the Muslims as an angry, violent people who use the two-fold method of Jihad and Fatah to further their geo-politcals plans, and sadly, the vast majority of people both here in America and abroad, remain blissfully ignorant of the ever-swelling
tide of Muslim cultural expansion. In this lesson we will show you, mostly in their own words and pictures, just exactly what the goal of Islam really is. We will not defame, demean or otherwise say anything that is not true about the position they hold. We will show you their words, photos of
them in "action", and let you make up your mind about what Islam is really all about.

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]A picture is worth a 1,000 words

A quick Google images search of the words Islam will dominate gives you quite the eyeful. It
shows very quickly photos from around the world of Muslims carrying signs and banners that proclaim things like "freedom can go to hell", "Islam will dominate the world", and "Shariah law - the true solution", as well as many other cute little tag lines. My first take on that is that it doesn't seem
overly friendly.

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Is this the work of scattered "radical fringe groups", or is it the views of the majority of Muslims
around the world? Well, look at it like this: someone has said that only 1% of Muslims worldwide
are Jihadists. Ok, thats fine, 1% is a small number...until...you realize that at last count there was
1,300,000,000 Muslims worldwide. For those of you who are math challenged that's about 1.3
billion Muslims. What is 1% of 1.3 billion? It is 10.3 million Muslims that engage in passive or active Jihad. Since 9/11 there have been an estimated 14,586 deadly terror attacks carried out worldwide, and all by Muslim terrorists. In the week of December 12 - 18th of this year, there were 42 attacks that resulted in 182 dead and 362 wounded. In one week.

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]The Children's Club

Watch this video about a Palestinian kid's show called "The Children's Club". This show is the
equvilent, for them, of Sesame Street here in the USA...with one big exception. I won't spoil it for you, but guarantee that it will be quite the eye-opener for you. Remember, this is a national program that is funded by not only their government but partially from our government as well. Watch and learn what is in the "hearts and minds" of Muslims.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[h=2][/h]

PlainWord · Sep 22, 2014

Hands down it is Radical Islam. The Roman Catholic Church believes in God and His Son. While I am not a fan of the RCC, they are not currently promoting false "Christs." Whereas, Islam has a False Prophet - Mohammad and a False God - Allah. If you read Rev 13 it is clear from the location of the Beast of the Sea that it is Islam.

2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard (Syria), his feet were like the feet of a bear (Iran), and his mouth like the mouth of a lion (Iraq/Persia). The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority.

The Leopard, bear and lion are current Iran, Iraq and Syria. Where is ISIS right now?

Many believe that the below passage from Dan 7 describes Rome. It does NOT!!

7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns.

8 I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one (ISIS), coming up among them, before whom three (Syria, Iraq and Iran) of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words.

Rome was NOT from the correct region. Further, Rome did not have the little horn that came up and devoured the 3 horns like ISIS will do to Iran, Iraq and Syria. Further Rome lasted much longer than 42 months.

Now there is another Beast in Rev 13 that comes from the earth (Where Hell is.) Nothing calls this Beast the Anti Christ. Paul calls it the "Man of Sin" who opposes and exalts himself above God.

2 Thes 2:

...and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

I believe this Man of Sin is of Satan and he comes as Allah or Mohammed. Many will doubt this and I admit this is only my theory as of this moment. But if you realize that the Saints are overcome (thus many of us will be killed) then the world as comprised will have no problem accepting Allah (the False God) and his prophet (Mohammed) given that He performs miracles and kills Jews and Christians in large numbers.

Rev 19:

20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.

If you consider that Islam has roots back to Esau and that God hated Esau from the womb and that Islam truly is a false religion that has a False gpd and a false prophet and if you understand the location of where they come from, Islam is the only thing that fits.

iamsoandso · Sep 22, 2014

I myself enjoy reading through these types of threads,I agree the beast is something that Christians should very well try to understand. At the end of most I notice there ends up being a few questions of things stated in scripture concerning this beast(the one in rev. 13;14-18) the one that is wounded to death and is brought back by the suggestion of the two horned beast. In the matter of the same beast I wonder do we/you all consider the beast in (rev. 17;8 and rev. 17;11) to be the same beast being spoken of in rev. 13;14-18?

Kerry · Sep 22, 2014

Jackson123 said:

I think it means what it say's God's word is Gods word, even Daniel did not understand what was being revealed, But, when it say' that he rejects the God of his fathers, that gives every implication that he will be a Jew.

Doe's Islam reject the God of their fathers?

Doe's the Pope reject the God of his Fathers?

This Guy will demand that He be worshiped and will say that he is the Messiah. No religion will honor that, save one and that is Judaism. He will make a peace treaty with Israel, Islam hates that. Islam wants them destroyed and us as well.

PlainWord · Sep 22, 2014

Kerry said:

Where do you find a peace treaty entered into with Israel?? I assume you are getting this from Dan 9??

27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."

Do you see Israel identified? I don't. I see a covenant being confirmed with "MANY."

iamsoandso · Sep 22, 2014

I agree with the path of thinking Kerry you are thinking "well the scripture say he will do this and the Jews wont accept that,and the Muslims are not going to agree to the things the scriptures say this beast will do. This is among other things I see also, others are if the beast in rev. 13 and the beast that is in rev. 17;8 and 11 are the same(I think they are) then,,it was told to John in rev.13;8 that the beast we are looking for when this was being told to John(ad 64-96?) was at that "exact time" in the bottomless pit,and that he "was" so he was one of the former heads but was no longer in the earth,and that he would ascend out of the pit,so,,

(A) the R.C.C. wasn't yet formed,or if so that it was in the pit at that time then those who think it is the beast would need to provide information explaining the existence of the Pope/R.C.C. prior to the days of Christ,but they had not yet come,and didn't come for about 300 years later . So the words "was,is not,but shall ascend" doesn't fit them(they are excluded).

(B) if they take the approach that the Church (was) from the beginning,and that it became the R.C.C.(or if they say it always was),,then the Church was in the earth when this was written and so the scripture "is not and shall ascend" does not fit the Church(so also are excluded)

(C) if they take the approach that it is Islam/Isis,Muslim ect. again then they would need to explain with history and scripture how that they "were/was" a former beast that at that time "was not/existed in the pit" and then match it to when the Muslim religion rose(the Koran had not been written/Islam had not yet rose) so are also excluded.

Now as we know all of these are majior powers in the worlds history,most importantly they affect Israel,and although they may fit into some scriptures,they do not fit the scriptures of the "beast,was,was not,yet is,even he is the eighth and of the 7 ect.",,,in rev. 17;12 "the ten horns/kings" had "received no kingdom as yet",so they are future tense to the time John received the Revalation "they did not exist yet",,,,these are a few of the things I see that are not being taken into consideration and why I like the way you are trying to approach this,,,,,

Kerry · Sep 22, 2014

Isaiah 28

17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.

Isaiah 57

7 Upon a lofty and high mountain hast thou set thy bed: even thither wentest thou up to offer sacrifice.
8 Behind the doors also and the posts hast thou set up thy remembrance: for thou hast discovered thyself to another than me, and art gone up; thou hast enlarged thy bed, and made thee a covenant with them; thou lovedst their bed where thou sawest it.
9 And thou wentest to the king with ointment, and didst increase thy perfumes, and didst send thy messengers far off, and didst debase thyself even unto hell.

Ezekiel 17

12 Say now to the rebellious house, Know ye not what these things mean? tell them, Behold, the king of Babylon is come to Jerusalem, and hath taken the king thereof, and the princes thereof, and led them with him to Babylon;
13 And hath taken of the king's seed, and made a covenant with him, and hath taken an oath of him: he hath also taken the mighty of the land

crossnote · Sep 23, 2014

Not Muslim...

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. (2Th 2:4)

Muslims wouldn't fall for someone exalting himself above their 'Allah'.

watty · Sep 23, 2014

Definitions:

Christ is a title it means king, messiah, or anointed one.

Jesus is the son of God, Christ Jesus or Jesus the Christ.

King Saul and many other kings were called Christ. Today Christ can stand for CEO, President, or King.

If someone were anti-Obama, you could also say they are an anti-Christ.

Do you think anti-Christ and anti-Jesus are the same? Why is it never written the anti-Jesus?

Atwood · Sep 23, 2014

Daniel 9

4 Seventy weeks are decreed upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy. 25 Know therefore and discern, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the anointed one, the prince [Christ],
shall be
seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks [= 69 wks];
it shall be built again, with street and moat, even in troublous times. 26 And after the threescore and two weeks shall the anointed one [Christ]
be cut off, [the Cross]
and shall have nothing: and
the people [Romans]
of the prince that shall come [Sea Beast of Rev 13]
shall destroy the city [Jerusalem]
and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and even unto the end shall be war; desolations are determined.
27 And he [the Beast] shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one that maketh desolate; and even unto the full end, and that determined, shall wrath be poured out upon the desolate.

"the people [Romans]
of the prince that shall come [Sea Beast of Rev 13]
shall destroy the city."

The people who destroyed Jerusalem = the Romans.
The man who makes the covenant for one week is of the Roman people.
Thus, IMHO, the Antichrist (Man of Sin, Sea Beast) is a Roman.

iamsoandso · Sep 23, 2014

lol,,,,Revelations 17;8,, for near 2000 years mankind has worked at the puzzle to recon it,and there is no end to the possibilities,it seems as though it is everyone. At this point what does anyone have to loose,,another "goose chase"?,,,mankind tries to figure out who he is instead of who he is not,,it should be a no-brainier that mankind is looking west when they should have looked east. Look at Revelations 17;8 and figure out who is the only one who fulfills it,to do this you must go one by one and say "this one does not,this one either",,,work it down to the one,,,,,lol

watty · Sep 23, 2014

Is Jesus the king or a Prince? Satan holds the title of Prince, Prince of demons.

Is Antichrist from Rome or Islam?

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