Is Antichrist from Rome or Islam?

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Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#1
I read article about where is the Antichrist from, Old theory, from Luther, Calvin etc believe antichrist from Rome/Pope, but some New theory believe the Antichrist from Islam.


What is the bible say:


In this article, the writer show some verse to prove that antichrist come from Rome, it open for discussion.




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Daniel 9:26-27 - Is there any support for an Islamic Antichrist?
By Chris Schang
One topic in today's Bible prophecy community that seems to becoming a thorn in the side for many Bible prophecy students is the traditional Western Antichrist view vs. the new Islamic Antichrist theory based on the Bible verses of Daniel 9:26. Let's take a look at these verse and see if we can find out what this new found confusion seems to be. According to Daniel verses 9:26-27 the scriptures record:
Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
The Daniel 9:26-27 verses focus on the end times scenario of the Antichrist. In these verses the Antichrist is referred to as the "prince" that shall come and that he is from the people who destroyed the city (Jerusalem) and the sanctuary (Second Temple). The only time that Jerusalem and a temple was destroyed happened in 70AD. History records that this was done by the Romans. These were Roman citizens from the lowest soldier all the way up to the commanders. An exact accounting of the events given by Bible prophecy expert Sean Osborne shows exactly which legions were involved and where they were from within the Roman empire which as follows:
The Roman legions which destroyed the 2nd Temple and the city of Jerusalem were Legio X Fretensis (from the Straits of Messina between the Italian mainland and Sicily), Legio V Macedonica (which obviously was from Macedonia), and Legio XV Apollinaris which was stationed on the Danube River near what is present day Austria and Slovenia. These Roman legions were all staffed by Roman (European) citizen soldiers from the lowest all the way up the chain of command to General Titus Flavius Vespasianus. #1​
The reason this accounting is important is that one of the primary objections raised from "Middle Eastern Antichrist" promoters is that they try to re-write history in saying that the actual people responsible for the destruction of the Temple were people of local and regional ethnic groups. As history records this is not the case at all. In order to further clarify this issue we need to see if there were any "eyewitness" accounts from history that are reliable as to exactly what happened during this time. In this case we have the famous historian Flavius Josephus to give us a first hand account of what happened. Josephus goes on to report:
According to Josephus, the Roman soldiers grew furious with Jewish attacks and tactics and, against Titus' orders, set fire to an apartment adjacent to the Temple, which soon spread all throughout. #2​
Josephus confirms here that it was indeed the ROMAN soldiers who set fire to an adjacent apartment which then spread throughout the rest of the Temple. History also records that the Roman soldiers "turned over every stone" in an effort to remove the valuable precious metals that had spilled down between the temple stones. These actions fulfilled the prophecy that Jesus made in Matthew 24:1-2 regarding the temple being destroyed. Josephus, being an eyewitness to the siege and aftermath, also went on to write:
"...the Roman army encompassed the city when it was crowded with inhabitants...the Romans slew some of them, some they carried captives, and others they made a search for under ground, and when they found where they were, they broke up the ground and slew all they met with...And now the Romans set fire to the extreme parts of the city, and burnt them down, and entirely demolished its walls." #3​
After reading these quotes from Josephus it is absolutely crystal clear that the ROMANS were the people who destroyed the city and santuary. To say otherwise is simply an effort to re-write history in order to support a preconceived idea that the "people who destroyed the city and sanctuary" were someone else. In this case to try to support an "Islamic Antichrist" theory is both riduclous and intellectually dishonest.
Another objection concerning Daniel 9:26-27 is that the "Islamic Antichrist" promoters try to argue that the Roman Empire had "two legs" to it and thus the Antichrist could be from the "Eastern leg" of the Roman empire. While it is true that the Roman empire eventually had an "eastern" component to it this was not until hundreds and hundreds of year after the destruction of the city and temple. So there is no way to logical way to include this eastern leg component with the Western leg that did the actual fighting and destruction. This is simply an attempt to use "strange and strained" logic to support a pre-conceived idea that is totally without historical merit. Which is exactly what the "Islamic Antichrist" movement tries to do.
To further put to rest this "Islamic Antichrist" theory, the Bible indicates through genealogy that the Antichrist comes from a Graeco-Roman origin. An excellent article written by Bible propehcy expert Gary Stearman indicates:
Daniel gives us Antichrist's genealogy, saying that this "prince" (the Antichrist) will be descended from the Flavian Dynasty of Vespasian and Titus. They are, after all, as Daniel puts it, "the people … who destroy the city and the sanctuary." Who were the Flavians? They were the Roman dictators who waged wars against the Jews during the close of the first century. Furthermore, they are well known to have intermarried with members of the Herodian dynasty. This intertwining began about 36 BC, when Caesar Augustus thrust the Edomite Herod the Great upon the Jews, insulting them by giving him the offensive title, "King of the Jews." Additionally, the Flavian bloodline included the Greek Seleucids, descending from Antiochus IV Ephiphanes, himself. In 167 BC, this evil character had captured the Jewish temple and placed a statue of himself in the Holy of Holies, dressed as Zeus. He is the foremost type of the Antichrist. These three bloodlines...Herodian, Seleucid and Roman...converge in the Flavian dynasty. In the second century AD and following, the descendants of these royals became the leaders of the Holy Roman Empire. #4
So in summary, not only does modern history record the obvious fact that the Romans were totally involved in the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70AD, but early EYEWITNESS accounts from Josephus also confirm the same thing. There is even the famous "Arch of Titus" in Rome that shows the roman soldiers looting and carrying off treasures from the Jewish Second Temple. I hope that this article serves to finally put to rest the attempts to re-write history in order to perpetuate a fad theological theory such as an "Islamic Antichrist". With history, firsthand eyewitness accounts, genealogy, and archaeology we can conclude that the coming "man of lawlessness" (Antichrist) that is spoken of the Bible will come from the revived Roman empire based in Western Europe, not from the Middle East as recent "newspaper" exegesis theories suggest
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W

watty

Guest
#2
Would the Antichrist be the same as Anti-Jesus? Jesus is the son of God born by a virgin named Mary. Christ is a title given to many kings and rulers. No, Jesus last name was not Christ. The proper way to say Jesus with title is, Jesus the Christ, or Christ Jesus. True meaning is King Jesus or Jesus the king. That is why he was labeled on the cross as King of the Jews and they mocked him by placing a crown of thorns on his head. Little did they know Jesus is the king of the world.
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#3
Just a couple simple thoughts. Can anybody see a Muslim uniting the world? If he's moderate, his most vocal would hate and condemn him. He could neither be Sunni or Shite and have peace, could not be neither and have peace. If he were a Muslim radical, nobody would want him but Muslim radicals the same flavor. How does a Muslim Antichrist work? Also, the Antichrist will not honor any god but magnify himself and honor some strange god his own, Daniel 11:37-39.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,658
13,125
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#4
or from the Mormon church?

Mormon doctrine is that they alone are the inheritors of the priesthood and the true church, and prophesy that a Mormon will come on a white horse to save the USA and unite the world.
the Mormon church builds Judaic temples and teaches that the final, true temple of God will be built in Missouri, where a Mormon high priest will re-instate the true sacrificial system and from the throne in this temple rule the entire world.

Mormon theology is that God was once a mortal man, and that good Mormons can become gods, even ascending higher than the God of Israel and usurping His throne.
the LDS-prophesied leader of the Mormon church to come will do exactly that - build an abominable temple in MO, USA, sit on the throne there over the whole earth, and declare himself higher than the God of Israel.
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#5
Mormon doctrine is that they alone are the inheritors of the priesthood and the true church, and prophesy that a Mormon will come on a white horse to save the USA and unite the world.
Fascinating idea, though wouldn't it seem to serve Antichrist's purposes to not appear to be of any religion that would cause divisiveness? And I keep coming back to Daniel, where the Antichrist is in some weird category of his own, with himself and some strange god, "nor regard any god," which would seem to imply known theologies out the window.
 
M

Marian29

Guest
#6
Bible verses about revelation book I think are fulfilling:

Rev. 1:3 ¶ Blessed {is} he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time {is} at hand.

Rev.1:1 ¶ The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified {it} by his angel unto his servant John:

Take note:
Woman = Church
Prostitute = Bad Church { Eph. 5:25 "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;"
Water = Peoples, multitudes {Rev.17:15 "And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues."

Rev. 17:1 ¶ And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:"

Rev. 17:3 "So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns."

Who is the church?

Rev. 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication."

Rev. 17:6 "And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration."

Millions of people were killed during the Papal Inquisition

Her accusation?
Heresy: to read the Bible

Rev. 17:9 "And here {is} the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth."

(google Rome 7 hills map)

Roma:
"Limem Apostolorum, la citta dei sette colli"
Translation:
"Entry of the Apostles, the city of seven hills"

Roman Catholic Church:
"The color of the bishops and other prelates,for the cardinals scarlet ... the pastoral cross should be made of gold
and decorated with stones..."
Idem, Pags. 175,178 and 466.

Rome is famous for being built on seven hills ( "la citta dei sette colli" - "the city of seven hills")

That means the Beast of Revelations 17 comes from Roman Catholic Church.
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#7
Rome is famous for being built on seven hills ( "la citta dei sette colli" - "the city of seven hills")
Same reply as the other thread you posted this in:

Hills, or mountains,

Revelation 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

And yes, Rome was famous for being built on seven hills, so what sort of wisdom is required, if the reference is to something commonly known of Rome anybody would see? Revelation 17 goes on to describe kingdoms and kings, one of which existed at the time of the writing of Revelation.
 
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
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#8
Those working against God and his words are part of the anti-Christ. We have a powerful anti-Christ within our churches, working against the word of the Lord. Those who belittle and make fun of God's holy law, those who say many scriptures were not for all God's people, those who explain a scripture by adding their fleshly reason to it are all part of the anti-Christ.

All of God's children need to put on the whole armor of the Lord and live, think, and work within the kingdom of God in all they think and do. Only in that way can we be more powerful than the Muslims and the demons working with the people in our churches, and all anti-Christ.

We can't read dirty books, see TV and movies filled with what isn't of God, accept sin as normal for us and still be strong against the anti-Christ.
 
R

Revelator7

Guest
#9
the Antichrist is from the pits of hell
 
O

OnlyJesusSaves

Guest
#11
This one said-that one said-well this preacher said-well
wait this pastor says-wait watch this video-ok well then
watch this video-oh no here is a better video.
I seen them all- does it matter?
If I am armed with Jesus I care less where he comes from.
Mystery Babylon who is it?
From my reading of my Bible it could very well be USA.
Not saying it is or I believe that just stating it could be.
I saw a video , I didn't finish watching, saying Hillary Clinton
is the woman riding the beast, I was laughing.

Fact is I care less who or where the Demonic one comes from
I have Jesus, and I have VICTORY.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
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#12
Beast/Little Horn a.k.a. anti-Christ (so-called) is the 12 IMAM of Islam
False Prophet/Beast NUMBER 2 is the LAST POPE of a UNITED ROMAN Catholic/Greek Orthodox Pseudo Religion

My view.....!
 
Apr 14, 2014
286
2
0
#13
the Antichrist is from the pits of hell
Good answer! Now thats a fact! So, you're saying Detroit?
stop stop stop stop why are you messing around. The person asked a question about the Antichrist. We don't need foolish or ungodly reasoning STOP watching movies made from man that twist are thinking. A Antichrist is a simple human that does not believed in God and that's it. No buts and Stop.Satan is not in hell and he will never go to hell only humans go to hell false doctrine. the truth will set you free.
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
588
113
#14
...
That means the Beast of Revelations 17 comes from Roman Catholic Church.
The Antichrist is also called "the king of the North" and Rome isn't north of Israel! Dan 11v40

Also, John says that in his time the 6th Head of the Beast was ruling, which was Rome, he said that the 7th (which was also the 8th) was yet future, so it can't be Rome, for Rome has has it's time of world domination and ruling over the Jews! Rev 17v10,11

So, have another think!

Yahweh Shalom
 
D

doulos

Guest
#15
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
These are the only 4 verses in Scripture that use the term antichrist or antichrists. As we can see from those 4 verses there are many antichrists and they were already in the world when John wrote about them. We are literally surrounded by antichrists. It is the atheist neighbor down the street that teaches their children there is no God, it is the muslim that denies God has a Son and the list goes on and on. Now I have seen many false statements in this thread that would lead one to believe antichrist is some end time world leader. Can any one show me where Scripture states that antichrist is an end time world leader? If not then why are so many people looking over their shoulder for some ficticous boogeyman instead of focusing on witnessing to the literally billions of antichrists (athiests, muslims etc...) that surround us in today's world? Sadly it appears satan's ploy is working! satan has hijacked the term antichrist and changed the Scriptural definition from one who denies Christ/God to an end time world leader. The result is people are busy looking over their shoulder for a ficticous boogeyman called "THE antichrist" while failing to realize the leopard, bear and lion beast (satan's spiritual kingdom) is staring us in the eye and taking heads throughout the world!
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#16
Can any one show me where Scripture states that antichrist is an end time world leader? If not then why are so many people looking over their shoulder for some ficticous boogeyman
People use Antichrist to refer to the "man of sin" to come, the beast of Revelation. Often, a capital "A" is used, to distinguish the end times Antichrist from the plethora of antichrists who deny the gospel. But it's not some big theological argument, I think people knowing what is meant, and such a coming bogeyman is no fiction.
 
D

doulos

Guest
#17
Is Antichrist from Rome or Islam? in bible study
Beast/Little Horn a.k.a. anti-Christ (so-called) is the 12 IMAM of Islam
False Prophet/Beast NUMBER 2 is the LAST POPE of a UNITED ROMAN Catholic/Greek Orthodox Pseudo Religion

My view.....!
Wow sounds pretty confusing considering we learn in Daniel that in the figurative language of prophecy beasts are kingdoms and history proves God/Word to be true and correct. Daniel's lion was Babylon, the bear was Medo-Persia and the leopard Greece.
1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the
saints.

Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. od. down, and break it in pieces
.
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Scripture tells us God/Word does not change. So if a beast was kingdom in Daniel it will still be a kingdom in Revelation. Can you show us where God/Word changed the definition of a beast from a kingdom as we are told in Daniel to an antichrist or little horn for Rev13:1-2? Can you then show us where the definition then changed again to a false prophet for Rev13:11? If you can not show where God/Word changed (and you can't because God/Word does not change) then why should we accept your incorrect definitions? Why give islamic prophecy about 12th imam any credibility, their prophecies are not from God but instead from a child doing, lying, thieving,murdering (per islam's own writings) illiterate 7 century false prophet called mohammad.
 
D

doulos

Guest
#18
People use Antichrist to refer to the "man of sin" to come, the beast of Revelation. Often, a capital "A" is used, to distinguish the end times Antichrist from the plethora of antichrists who deny the gospel. But it's not some big theological argument, I think people knowing what is meant, and such a coming bogeyman is no fiction.
Incorrect terminology causes confusion! Can you show me any Scripture that says the man of sin is an end time world leader? If you want to understand the man of sin look in the temple of God, not some building the Jews may or may not build.

On the individual level the temple of God is defined by the following verses.
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

On the corporate level the temple of God is defined by the following verses.
Eph 2:19-22 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Man made buildings are not the temple of God!
Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

Doesn't Scripture itself tell us beasts are kingdoms in the figurative language of prophecy?
Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Wasn't the lion beast the kingdom of Babylon? Wasn't the bear beast Medo-Persia? Wasn't the leopard Greece? So why change a beast to antichrist when Scripture makes no such change?

Wouldn't we be better served to use the terms Scripture itself provides to prevent confusion?
1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
 
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Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#19
Is Antichrist from Rome or Islam? in bible study

Wow sounds pretty confusing considering we learn in Daniel that in the figurative language of prophecy beasts are kingdoms and history proves God/Word to be true and correct. Daniel's lion was Babylon, the bear was Medo-Persia and the leopard Greece.
1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the
saints.

Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. od. down, and break it in pieces
.
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Scripture tells us God/Word does not change. So if a beast was kingdom in Daniel it will still be a kingdom in Revelation. Can you show us where God/Word changed the definition of a beast from a kingdom as we are told in Daniel to an antichrist or little horn for Rev13:1-2? Can you then show us where the definition then changed again to a false prophet for Rev13:11? If you can not show where God/Word changed (and you can't because God/Word does not change) then why should we accept your incorrect definitions? Why give islamic prophecy about 12th imam any credibility, their prophecies are not from God but instead from a child doing, lying, thieving,murdering (per islam's own writings) illiterate 7 century false prophet called mohammad.
Well...maybe it is confusing to you because you are in error...just saying, as it seems clear to me so...whatever dude!
I suggest a study of the world empires which would rule over the Middle East and how the BEAST is from the area conquered by Alexander the great and then divided by his four generals....like Daniel 10 and 11....and understand the picture of the BEAST in Revelation upon which the GREAT WHORE resides over.....and maybe a study of the historicity of the following...

The Seven MOUNTAINS of REVELATION

Egypt--->Assyria->Babylon--->Persia--->Greece-->Rome--->10 Horned/10Toed vision of DANIEL and REVELATION

As well as the following...

Horus-->Bel--->Marduke-->Merodach-->Jupiter--->Zeus------> ALLAH

and APO-THEOSIS and what it means, and how it is a continuing attempt to unite humanity UNDER ONE MAN that is worshipped as God and how it goes all the way back to NIMROD and the TOWER of BABEL

Revelation---> JESUS said....I KNOW thou dwellest where SATAN's seat is<--to church in PERGAMOS

What was located at PERGAMOS?<-----------THE THRONE OF ZEUS

The Great WHORE that is RIDING ON TOP of the 7 mountains spreads her RELIGION under the banner of DEMOCRACY...

WORSHIP GOD AS YOU PLEASE<-----NOT BIBLICAL

SO...believe what you will man....You will not change my mind for sure because after 25 years of 20 to 60 hours a week of study and 16-18 semester hours for three years straight has convinced me of the above....so like I said...WHATEVER!

I will wait to see how it all plays out as Paul said clearly that BEFORE the BODY PRESENCE (PAROUSIA) of JESUS that is to say OUR GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO HIM the MAN OF SIN WILL BE REVEALED<--2nd Thessalonians 2
 
D

doulos

Guest
#20
Well...maybe it is confusing to you because you are in error...just saying, as it seems clear to me so...whatever dude!
I suggest a study of the world empires which would rule over the Middle East and how the BEAST is from the area conquered by Alexander the great and then divided by his four generals....like Daniel 10 and 11....and understand the picture of the BEAST in Revelation upon which the GREAT WHORE resides over.....and maybe a study of the historicity of the following...

The Seven MOUNTAINS of REVELATION

Egypt--->Assyria->Babylon--->Persia--->Greece-->Rome--->10 Horned/10Toed vision of DANIEL and REVELATION

As well as the following...

Horus-->Bel--->Marduke-->Merodach-->Jupiter--->Zeus------> ALLAH

and APO-THEOSIS and what it means, and how it is a continuing attempt to unite humanity UNDER ONE MAN that is worshipped as God and how it goes all the way back to NIMROD and the TOWER of BABEL

Revelation---> JESUS said....I KNOW thou dwellest where SATAN's seat is<--to church in PERGAMOS

What was located at PERGAMOS?<-----------THE THRONE OF ZEUS

The Great WHORE that is RIDING ON TOP of the 7 mountains spreads her RELIGION under the banner of DEMOCRACY...

WORSHIP GOD AS YOU PLEASE<-----NOT BIBLICAL

SO...believe what you will man....You will not change my mind for sure because after 25 years of 20 to 60 hours a week of study and 16-18 semester hours for three years straight has convinced me of the above....so like I said...WHATEVER!

I will wait to see how it all plays out as Paul said clearly that BEFORE the BODY PRESENCE (PAROUSIA) of JESUS that is to say OUR GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO HIM the MAN OF SIN WILL BE REVEALED<--2nd Thessalonians 2
As you are led friend, as you are led! As for me I will use the definitions Scripture itself provides to understand the figurative language of prophecy. If you prefer to lean on the private interpretations of man that changes those definitions so be it.
2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.