The Gifts of the Spirit

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R

Revelator7

Guest
#1
I am one for the idea of the gifts of the Holy Spirit for things like personal prophecy, speaking in tongues, miracles etc.

However I do not associate myself as a denominational person. I am not pentecostal. I am not charasmatic. I am not reformed. I am not a nazarene (these are churches I have been apart of).

I am simply a BIBLE-believing Christ-centered Spirit-filled indidivual.

I don't get what all the controversy and debate is about concerning the shunning of the gifts of the Spirit for today.

I do get that people who grow up in their own brand of Christianity (by denomination), they get indoctrinated with the traditions and religious beliefs of their own church. I believe that every denomination may have extra biblical applications, but that's just me.

If we all just believed in ONE BIBLE, which most of the English translations have the same words in them, then we would be fine and be in UNITY of the faith and in the knowledge of the Lord.

I believe our division (denominations and split theology) is what's keeping us away from seeing God move like he did in Acts.

If you don't believe in the gifts of the Spirit, give me Scripture that tells me otherwise.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#2
1 Corinthians 13:8

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
R

Revelator7

Guest
#3
We should just completely drop Calvinism and Arminiansm all together. No man's theology, just the word of God in plain english.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#4
I think a big part of the issue is that as humans we take it over the top, satan muddies the waters with lies and falsehoods, and far too many people do not have the discernment to tell the true from the fake and overdone. So they toss it all out instead of learning what is and is not of God.

It's their loss.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#5
1 Corinthians 13:8

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

But they don't cease until Christ returns and completes the restoration process. Ie, the gift of healing will cease when Christ restores us to our spiritual bodies and no one is getting sick any longer. Same with tongues. Tongues, which is really our native language, will cease when our singular spiritual language is restored to us.
 
R

Revelator7

Guest
#6
1 Corinthians 13:8

For the cause of Christ
Roger
1 Corinthians 13:8 NIV reads:
Love never fails. But where the are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

If you are asserting that prophecies are ceased, then it would have to be in the context that the tongues of men and of angels are completely stilled and that [all] knowledge is passed away as well.

I say the tongues of men and of angels because in the context of 1 Corinthians 13, Paul begins with that. But as it is, human languages are still not stilled. If in that same sentence that prophecy is ceased, then tongues would be stilled. And now, the more apparent one, knowledge, written here as last but certaintly not least in that one sentence. Knowledge has not passed away yet. How could it when God said his people perish with its lack thereof? Notice in the English translation that there are semicolons ; used between each thought? That means they encompass each other.

What Paul was writting was that LOVE NEVER FAILS, but everything that we think we have in terms of spiritual gifts or even knowledge, that those things cannot save us or be a constant for us. Only Love is perfect. He goes on to say in 13:8 (the context) that what we know or prophesy in part, that what is in part will become what is in fullness (complete in Love).

if knowledge is in part until the perfect (love) comes into picture then personal prophecy is side by side that knowledge in part. In context, Paul wrote if he had the gift of knowledge and could prophesy and fathom all mysteries, but have not love he is nothing. He is saying that prophesy which we do in part, and the knowledge which we have that is also in part, and fathoming mysteries that is in part, and speaking in any kind of tongue that is in part, and even our giving (if we give all we have to the poor but do not have love we gain nothing) which is in part, if we have these things but have not love (which is not in part but is the fullness of these things), we have no constant in our lives.

Love is constant, it never fails. but everything else in our lives do. this is what paul was really saying to us. trying to expound on the greatest gift of all.

jehovahs witnesses use that very scripture against christians to say that the gifts of the spirit were only for the apostles in the time of Acts.

thessolonians says not to put out the spirits fire and despise prophecy. paul wrote in corinthians to folllow the way of love and eargly desire the gift of prophecy. he said we can all prophesy one by one that we all may learn. he said that those who rejected personal prophecies ended up shipwrecking their faith. we aren't to reject the work of the Holy Spirit in our lives. what if that is what you are doing? and what if it is destroying your walk with God right now? God gave some to be prophets (ephesians 4) for the building up of the saints until we ALL reach the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God. Have we ALL reached that state of unity and knowledge in God? No, thus we need prophets and prophetic people in our lives.

Peter said about Paul in the Scriptures that some people who are ignorant (unlearned) don't understand Paul's writtings and end up destroying themselves because of it. I am not against you, I am for you because you bear the Name of the Lord. I am only giving you my thoughts here. Be blessed.
 
R

Revelator7

Guest
#7
I think a big part of the issue is that as humans we take it over the top, satan muddies the waters with lies and falsehoods, and far too many people do not have the discernment to tell the true from the fake and overdone. So they toss it all out instead of learning what is and is not of God.

It's their loss.
Yes, and we should question those who accept ignorance over truth because the word of God says that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth and also gives us discernment as He illuminates the word of God with revelation and wisdom. Amen brother
 
May 2, 2014
1,060
12
0
#8
I am one for the idea of the gifts of the Holy Spirit for things like personal prophecy, speaking in tongues, miracles etc.

However I do not associate myself as a denominational person. I am not pentecostal. I am not charasmatic. I am not reformed. I am not a nazarene (these are churches I have been apart of).

I am simply a BIBLE-believing Christ-centered Spirit-filled indidivual.

I don't get what all the controversy and debate is about concerning the shunning of the gifts of the Spirit for today.

I do get that people who grow up in their own brand of Christianity (by denomination), they get indoctrinated with the traditions and religious beliefs of their own church. I believe that every denomination may have extra biblical applications, but that's just me.

If we all just believed in ONE BIBLE, which most of the English translations have the same words in them, then we would be fine and be in UNITY of the faith and in the knowledge of the Lord.

I believe our division (denominations and split theology) is what's keeping us away from seeing God move like he did in Acts.

If you don't believe in the gifts of the Spirit, give me Scripture that tells me otherwise.
I believe the supernatural gifts described in the Scriptures were just what the Scriptures say they were, a sign to Israel. I don't believe they are given today. I have written an article on this subject which addresses the issue from Scripture. If you're interested my position on this subject the article can be found here, "Spiritual Gifts and Their Purpose".
 
R

Revelator7

Guest
#9
I believe the supernatural gifts described in the Scriptures were just what the Scriptures say they were, a sign to Israel. I don't believe they are given today. I have written an article on this subject which addresses the issue from Scripture. If you're interested my position on this subject the article can be found here, "Spiritual Gifts and Their Purpose".
Read my reply to notuptone. I dare ya!

But I do not see anywhere in the word of God that says the gifts of the Spirit were for a mere sign to Israel. Got the Scripture to refute me on this?

Gifts of the Spirit are not a sign, the only sign, which is to unbelievers is the gift of tongues (1 Corinthians 14). The Gifts are for the edification of the body of Christ. Why would gifts such as messages of wisdom and messages of knowledge be a sign to Israel? These are gifts to build up the Christian, not the nation of Israel for the sake of a sign. If gifts of the Spirit such as wisdom and knowledge and the ability to speak in a different langauge or the ability to be an interpretor of a langauge, how would those be exempt from the other gifts such as healing and miracles and prophecy? How could God say that these gifts here in 1 Cor 12 you can choose these (wisdom and knowledge) but the rest are long gone for the 21st century church? That is cherry picking the word of God.
 
May 2, 2014
1,060
12
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#10
Read my reply to notuptone. I dare ya!

But I do not see anywhere in the word of God that says the gifts of the Spirit were for a mere sign to Israel. Got the Scripture to refute me on this?

Gifts of the Spirit are not a sign, the only sign, which is to unbelievers is the gift of tongues (1 Corinthians 14). The Gifts are for the edification of the body of Christ. Why would gifts such as messages of wisdom and messages of knowledge be a sign to Israel? These are gifts to build up the Christian, not the nation of Israel for the sake of a sign. If gifts of the Spirit such as wisdom and knowledge and the ability to speak in a different langauge or the ability to be an interpretor of a langauge, how would those be exempt from the other gifts such as healing and miracles and prophecy? How could God say that these gifts here in 1 Cor 12 you can choose these (wisdom and knowledge) but the rest are long gone for the 21st century church? That is cherry picking the word of God.
I assume you didn't read my paper so I can only assume that you don't want the Biblical evidence. I read your post to Roger and Paul did say those things, however, he was writing to first century Christians in those cities, not to you. The "perfect" is not love, it is the completion of that which is in part, which Paul said was prophecy and knowledge. the knowledge that Paul is speaking of is not human understanding, it is knowledge given by God, revelation.

KJV 1 Corinthians 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; (1Co 12:8 KJV)

This is the knowledge that was in part. What needs to be understood is that the apostles didn't have the Christian faith given to them all at one time, things were revealed to them over time. That's why prophesy and knowledge were in part. All of this is explained in my article.

However, there is Scripture that tells us what the Gifts were for.

18 Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion. (Isa 8:1 KJV)

Here is the passage that Paul referred to when he said that tongues was a sign for the unbeliever.

1 Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine! {overcome: Heb. broken}
2 Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand.
3 The crown of pride, the drunkards of Ephraim, shall be trodden under feet: {under...: Heb. with feet}
4 And the glorious beauty, which is on the head of the fat valley, shall be a fading flower, and as the hasty fruit before the summer; which when he that looketh upon it seeth, while it is yet in his hand he eateth it up. {eateth: Heb. swalloweth}
5 In that day shall the LORD of hosts be for a crown of glory, and for a diadem of beauty, unto the residue of his people,
6 And for a spirit of judgment to him that sitteth in judgment, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate.
7 But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.
8 For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. {doctrine: Heb. the hearing?}
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: {must be: or, hath been}
11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. {stammering...: Heb. stammerings of lip} {will...: or, he hath spoken}
12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
14 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it. {trodden...: Heb. a treading down to it}
(Isa 28:3-18 KJV)

That's what Paul is referring to when he says,

21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. (1Co 14:21 KJV)

The people Isaiah is prophesying to is Israel.
 

Joidevivre

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2014
3,838
271
83
#11
If one gift is real today (like the gift of teaching), then they all are. All are needed. All the gifts are God ministering to us within the body and we still need that ministering today. We still need a Word from God that will encourage and edify us (prophecy), we still need healing, we still need miracles, we still need that Word of Knowledge over specific circumstances, and above all we still desperately need to see the power of the Holy Spirit manifesting Himself in gatherings of Christians.

If you have ever been used by the Holy Spirit in bringing these gifts from God to the church, you would have no doubt of its power upon lives. And if you have ever been the recipient of healing ministered by someone with the gift, or received a word of prophecy that spoke personally to exactly a situation that only you knew about, you would not question the validity of the manifestations of the Holy Spirit.

I have also heard the counterfeit because the enemy only counterfeits what is real. But churches that are afraid of that throw the baby out with the bath water so to speak. The pastors and leaders in a church need to be experienced in discernment. The Holy Spirit will give them that if they ask. But they need to always be OPEN to allowing the Holy Spirit to minister in these powerful ways.
 
Aug 24, 2014
37
0
0
#12
God gave to me
ALL the gifts
of
the Holy Ghost.

I have them all.
All of them...

Without measure.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#13
God gave to me
ALL the gifts
of
the Holy Ghost.

I have them all.
All of them...

Without measure.
You are right to a degree. Till you said with out measure. God has given faith to every man with measure. The more He trust you the more power He gives you. We must earn God's trust, by our faith in the work that God did. The more faith we have in the cross the power He gives us. If we think it's our power then it is taken away or if we think that is by our works then we die. Look at all the preachers that have come and gone. what happened did they get old. No there faith got twisted from the cross and they failed.
 
May 2, 2014
1,060
12
0
#14
If one gift is real today (like the gift of teaching), then they all are. All are needed. All the gifts are God ministering to us within the body and we still need that ministering today. We still need a Word from God that will encourage and edify us (prophecy), we still need healing, we still need miracles, we still need that Word of Knowledge over specific circumstances, and above all we still desperately need to see the power of the Holy Spirit manifesting Himself in gatherings of Christians.


If you have ever been used by the Holy Spirit in bringing these gifts from God to the church, you would have no doubt of its power upon lives. And if you have ever been the recipient of healing ministered by someone with the gift, or received a word of prophecy that spoke personally to exactly a situation that only you knew about, you would not question the validity of the manifestations of the Holy Spirit.

I have also heard the counterfeit because the enemy only counterfeits what is real. But churches that are afraid of that throw the baby out with the bath water so to speak. The pastors and leaders in a church need to be experienced in discernment. The Holy Spirit will give them that if they ask. But they need to always be OPEN to allowing the Holy Spirit to minister in these powerful ways.

We're talking about the supernatural gifts, then natural gifts are given as the Spirit will.
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
586
113
#15
1 Corinthians 13:8

For the cause of Christ
Roger
And again the voice of the UNinformed speaketh! :p

You can find a bit of a study Here on the gifts of the Holy Spirit (as listed in 1Cor 12v7-11)...

For the cause of TRUTH!

Yahweh Shalom
 
Aug 24, 2014
37
0
0
#16
You are right to a degree. Till you said with out measure. God has given faith to every man with measure. The more He trust you the more power He gives you. We must earn God's trust, by our faith in the work that God did. The more faith we have in the cross the power He gives us. If we think it's our power then it is taken away or if we think that is by our works then we die. Look at all the preachers that have come and gone. what happened did they get old. No there faith got twisted from the cross and they failed.
Jesus
gave to me
All His power and Authority
without measure.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
83
63
#17
Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the Lord your God:
for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain,
the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.
 
A

AHealingPen

Guest
#18
The gifts of the Holy Spirit are just that "gifts" they are for everybody who is a believer and who is ready to receive them. It never surprises me those who criticize the things they don't understand or things they have not been given. If people would just read the bible as a whole book, from cover to cover they will understand the gifts of the Spirit and some. Amen.
 
Aug 24, 2014
37
0
0
#19
I
have certain
gifts of the Holy Ghost
that none of you even know
that they exist.

Who
in their right mind
would think
that there are only
9 gifts
of the
Spirit
of
God?

I have the gifts of the Holy Ghost with out measure.
 
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