What does it mean to say salvation is not of yourself?

[crossnote]

What does it mean to say salvation is not of yourself, but is of God?
What is God communicating through verses like below?

Ephesians 2

Ephesians 1:4-6 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

''Before the foundation of the world'' takes it out of my hands and into His...as if the matter ever was in my hands.

 

[Atwood]

Those who are believers in the Savior (not writing Him off as mere chance-giver) can sing with me:

His grace has planned it all;
Tis mine but to believe;
And recognize His work of love,
and Christ receive;
For me, He died;
For me, He lives;
And everlasting life & light He freely gives.

As Jonah said, Salvation is of YHWH.

I need no other argument;
I need no other plea;
It is enough that Jesus died,
& that He died for me.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.

Those who have downgraded the Lord Jesus to mere chance-giver,
denying He is the Savior,
are urged to repent & actually trust Him to do the saving.
The filthy rags of your righteousness will only condemn you.

The only thing you can do to "save yourself," is to stop trying to save yourself, and rest in the finished work of Christ.

7 Wherefore, even as the Holy Spirit saith,
To-day if ye shall hear his voice,
8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation,
Like as in the day of the trial in the wilderness,
9 Where your fathers tried me by proving me,
And saw my works forty years.
10 Wherefore I was displeased with this generation,
And said, They do always err in their heart:
But they did not know my ways;
11 As I sware in my wrath,
They shall not enter into my rest.


12 Take heed, brethren, lest haply there shall be in any one of you an evil heart of unbelief, . . .
To-day if ye shall hear his voice,
Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.


. . . to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that were disobedient? 19 And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief.


4:1 Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard.
3 For we who have believed do enter into that rest; even as he hath said,
As I sware in my wrath,
They shall not enter into my rest:
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he hath said somewhere of the seventh day on this wise, And God rested on the seventh day from all his works; 5 and in this place again,
They shall not enter into my rest.


. . .
To-day if ye shall hear his voice,
Harden not your hearts.


8 For if Joshua had given them rest, he would not have spoken afterward of another day. 9 There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God. 10 For
he that is entered into his rest
hath himself also rested from his works, as God did from his. 11 Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that rest, that no man fall after the same example of disobedience.

 

[Atwood]

Hi, Roger.

I know this may seem nit-picky, but those words are not in the text.
v. 15 says "whoever believes will (or may) in Him have eternal life."
v. 16 says, "that whoever believes in Him"

nothing about the human will there.

ellie

I don't find any such faculty as the human will in the Bible at all. That is not to say that men don't exercise will.

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And he that heareth, let him say, Come. And he that is athirst, let him come: he who is willing/wanting [ho thelōn], let him take the water of life freely.

 

[Apostol2013]

To me it means christ is the saving source because of the Father that what we do is mere obedience therefore by being obedient it is not our works but of the saving faith in christ therefore we walk in obedience because of faith in Christ by being a living sacrifice we are no more but Christ lives for us , therefore when receivong christ we will walk as He did for if one receives and really receives christ we walk upright and everything we do is a result of faith and the works are of Christ that nobody should boast of self but instead boast of Christ

 

[tribesman]

What does it mean to say salvation is not of yourself, but is of God?
What is God communicating through verses like below?

That our salvation is wholly God's work, not our work. God's choice, not our choice. God's righteousness, not our own righteousness. God 100% - us 0%.

 

[SeaBass]

God alone saves, but Christians can be one of the instruments God uses
to bring about the salvation of others.

Salvation is a one-time event (salvation past),
a process (salvation present) of being made more conformed to Christ's image, and
a completion (salvation future) at the resurrection of our glorified bodies.

God saves but the issue is who does He save and why? Heb 5:9 God saves those that obey Him. So those that obey are in a sense "saving themselves" (as the bible says in all those verses I quoted) say since God save the obedient. So both God and myself have a role in my salvation. God alone will not save me without my participating in my role God has given me in obeying Him. And obedience is a life-long event not something a person does just once then quits.

 

[SeaBass]

Joh_6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

This verse says to me that even our faith is a gift from God.

Faith comes by hearing the word of God, Rom 10:17 and is not a gift God randomly gives to some and withholds from others. That idea puts fault and blame upon God for the faithless.

Jn 6:45 tells us how God draws men: It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Men are taught, hear and learn the word of God, and it by that hearing men have faith. So the drawing is nothing magical or irresistible. The result of God drawing is "cometh unto Me" man of his free will comes to God.

God draws, me come.

 

[SeaBass]

You presented 6 verses and people still say that one has no part in their salvation?

I wonder, do people really have itchy ears?

Those 6 verses do not fit man-made theologies, so they get ignored.

 

[SeaBass]

The parable of the publican & the pharisee suggests that one why-not is self-righteousness. It requires abandoning pride in one's own works to trust the Lord Jesus for salvation. He is the Savior. Man is the saved, if he trusts the Lord Jesus for it.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins.




[/FONT]Verses must be taken in context and also with the realization that "save" has a range of meanings. In considering salvation, the two basic things we refer to are the new birth & eternal life. The believer is begotten by God (not something a baby can do for himself); and told he shall not perish, but have everlasting life -- the free gift of God is eternal life.

As a manner of speaking, when one trusts Christ as Savior, one saves oneself, in a manner of speaking, one does what is asked of man for salvation. Of course no man goes onto the cross and gets nailed while the Lord lays on that man the iniquities of us all.

"in doing this thou shalt both save thyself" 1 Tim 4:16;

The word of God is instrumental in salvation. And there is a current present tense salvation from sin in which scripture is instrumental: In His law he meditates day & night. Timothy did not need a new birth nor the gift of eternal life, which he already had.

"work out your own salvation" Phil 2:12; should not be quoted out of context -- for it is God who works in you both to will & to do!
Salvation result in works; works don't bring salvation.

"Seeing ye have purified your souls" 1 Pet 1:22; "let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit" 2 Cor 7:1; "Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts" James 4:8[/QUOTE]

None of the above have a thing to do with either securing a new birth, a transformation in which old things pass away & all becomes new -- nor does it have a thing to do with receiving eternal life. The blood of the Lord Jesus cleanses the believer from all sin; the believer doesn't use his own blood.
[/QUOTE]

"Save yourselves from this untoward generation." Acts 2:40; "in doing this thou shalt both save thyself" 1 Tim 4:16; "work out your own salvation" Phil 2:12; "Seeing ye have purified your souls" 1 Pet 1:22; "let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit" 2 Cor 7:1; "Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts" James 4:8


Man obviously has a role in his own salvation therefore can save himself by fulfilling the role God has given him.

 

[cfultz3]

I don't find any such faculty as the human will in the Bible at all. That is not to say that men don't exercise will.

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And he that heareth, let him say, Come. And he that is athirst, let him come: he who is willing/wanting [ho thelōn], let him take the water of life freely.

No such thing as 'human will', but yet, we can exercise will? What a Pandora's box.

 

[jdbear]

Faith comes by hearing the word of God, Rom 10:17 and is not a gift God randomly gives to some and withholds from others. That idea puts fault and blame upon God for the faithless.

Jn 6:45 tells us how God draws men: It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Men are taught, hear and learn the word of God, and it by that hearing men have faith. So the drawing is nothing magical or irresistible. The result of God drawing is "cometh unto Me" man of his free will comes to God.

God draws, me come.

Outstanding exegis!

 

[jdbear]

"Seeing ye have purified your souls" 1 Pet 1:22; "let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit" 2 Cor 7:1; "Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts" James 4:8

Absolutely true.

None of the above have a thing to do with either securing a new birth, a transformation in which old things pass away & all becomes new -- nor does it have a thing to do with receiving eternal life. The blood of the Lord Jesus cleanses the believer from all sin; the believer doesn't use his own blood.
[/QUOTE]

"Save yourselves from this untoward generation." Acts 2:40; "in doing this thou shalt both save thyself" 1 Tim 4:16; "work out your own salvation" Phil 2:12; "Seeing ye have purified your souls" 1 Pet 1:22; "let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit" 2 Cor 7:1; "Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts" James 4:8


Man obviously has a role in his own salvation therefore can save himself by fulfilling the role God has given him.[/QUOTE]Absolutely true.

 

[SeaBass]

Ephesians 1:4-6 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

''Before the foundation of the world'' takes it out of my hands and into His...as if the matter ever was in my hands.

The "us" is the group Christian, it was this group God foreknew would be saved and not the individual apt from the group. So the individual must choose to obey the gospel and become part of this foreknown group and those that obey are in that sense "saving themselves" by being added to the group.

 

[SeaBass]

That our salvation is wholly God's work, not our work. God's choice, not our choice. God's righteousness, not our own righteousness. God 100% - us 0%.

if man has no role in his own salvation then how does God determine who He will or will not save?

 

[jdbear]

What does it mean to say salvation is not of yourself, but is of God?
What is God communicating through verses like below?

Ephesians 2

It means God gave Jesus to the world so that we, by His gift, would have faith in God. The choice belongs to each person:

Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 1Pe.1:21

 

[jdbear]

if man has no role in his own salvation then how does God determine who He will or will not save?

Maybe He flips a coin. But seriously, God saves those who repent because of His work:
...but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word. Is.66:2

 

[crossnote]

Ephesians 1:4-6 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

''Before the foundation of the world'' takes it out of my hands and into His...as if the matter ever was in my hands.

The "us" is the group Christian, it was this group God foreknew would be saved and not the individual apt from the group. So the individual must choose to obey the gospel and become part of this foreknown group and those that obey are in that sense "saving themselves" by being added to the group.

It's rather stupid on my part to continue answering these non biblical made up responses of yours. You are trying to tell me we choose Him out of our free will and on that basis God has put us in a group that God has chosen from the foundation of the world?
If you are going to be a heretical troll at least make some biblical sense, otherwise my responses will stop...I have better ways to waste my time.

 

[tribesman]

It's rather stupid on my part to continue answering these non biblical made up responses of yours. You are trying to tell me we choose Him out of our free will and on that basis God has put us in a group that God has chosen from the foundation of the world?
If you are going to be a heretical troll at least make some biblical sense, otherwise my responses will stop...I have better ways to waste my time.

It's usually a waste of time to "discuss" with people who either ripped Romans 9 out of their bibles or explained it away.

 

[jdbear]

It's usually a waste of time to "discuss" with people who either ripped Romans 9 out of their bibles or explained it away.

Brother, the key to understanding Romans 9 is vs.7. If you don't get the meaning of that verse, you're going to screw up the rest of the chapter.

 

[Atwood]

God saves but the issue is who does He save and why? Heb 5:9 God saves those that obey Him. . . . . And obedience is a life-long event not something a person does just once then quits.

That approach is a sure approach to the Lake of Fire. For you do not obey. The approach of salvation is "God be merciful to me a sinner."

It is hopeless to trust in one's own good works, which are obediences to the Lord. Men are disobedient & merit the Lake of Fire for it. The wages of sin is death. Moreover, it is not in the nature of sinful man to obey. A new birth is required to change the nature. The only obedience which saves (from man's POV) is obedience to this command:

Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall saved.
Salvation requires rest from self-righteous supposed good works, and trusting the Savior to do His job, that of saving:

Heb 5:9 does not support your theory at all. Here it is with context:


To-day if ye shall hear his voice,
8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation,
. . .
10 Wherefore I was displeased with this generation,
And said, They do always err in their heart:
But they did not know my ways;
11 As I sware in my wrath,
They shall not enter into my rest.


12 Take heed, brethren, lest haply there shall be in anyone of you an evil heart of unbelief, . . .

to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that were disobedient? 19 And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief.


4:1 Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard. 3 For
we who have believed do enter into that rest; even as he hath said,
As I sware in my wrath,
They shall not enter into my rest:
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he hath said somewhere of the seventh day on this wise, And God rested on the seventh day from all his works; 5 and in this place again,
They shall not enter into my rest.


6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some should enter thereinto, and they to whom the good tidings were before preached failed to enter in because of disobedience,

[When anyone fails to trust the Lord for salvation, that man is in disobedience to the one command that he must obey for salvation: Believe . . . & be saved.]

. . .
There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God. 10 For
he that has entered into his rest hath himself also rested from his works, as God did from his. 11 Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that rest,

[To trust Christ as Savior is a command, & the command includes resting from your works]

that no man fall after the same example of disobedience. . . .
Let us therefore draw near with boldness unto the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy, and may find grace to help us in time of need. . . .


7 Who in the days of his flesh, having offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and having been heard for his godly fear, 8 though he was a Son, yet learned obedience by the things which he suffered; 9 and having been made perfect, he became unto all them that obey him the author of eternal salvation; 10 named of God a high priest after the order of Melchizedek.

[The only obedience which saves is obedience to
"Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved," which implies that you rest from your works and depend on Him alone -- Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.] . . .


but he, because he abideth for ever, hath his priesthood unchangeable. 25 Wherefore also he is able
to save to the uttermostthem that draw near unto God through him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.


26 For such a high priest became us, holy, guileless, undefiled, separated from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; 27 who needeth not daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people: for this he did once for all, when he offered up himself. . . .