Women speaking in the church

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Afrndlyman81

Guest
#1
In the book of Corinthians, it mentions that women should not speak in the church. Do you believe this is correct? Does this mean that a woman cannot lead a service? does this mean that a woman cannot ask a public question in church? what do you guys think? The verse is...

1 Corinthians 14: 34-35
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Let your[SUP][d][/SUP] women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. [SUP]35 [/SUP]And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.

Thanks,
Andres
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
588
113
#2
In the book of Corinthians, it mentions that women should not speak in the church. Do you believe this is correct? Does this mean that a woman cannot lead a service? does this mean that a woman cannot ask a public question in church? what do you guys think? The verse is...

1 Corinthians 14: 34-35
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Let your[SUP][d][/SUP] women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. [SUP]35 [/SUP]And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.

Thanks,
Andres
Try using the forum "Search" facility and you will find your answer!
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
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#3
From the Apologetics Study Bible notes...

''14:34 Why did Paul allow women to pray and prophesy (11:5) but here called for women to “be silent”? Apparently, wives were calling out questions to their husbands, perhaps while their husbands were prophesying or speaking in tongues. This contributed further to the noisy chaos of the meetings. Paul’s call for silence, therefore, was not absolute but specific; he wanted wives to wait to ask their husbands their questions at home. In both 11:5 and 14:34, the real issue is the wife’s recognition of her husband’s God- given role of “head” in relation to her. For this reason, she was to wear a marriage veil (or something like that) when prophesying and to keep quiet when her husband was speaking in church. (Apologetics)

So silence for women is not absolute...

1 Corinthians 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
 
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Revelator7

Guest
#4
I believe it is 100% correct. And a word of advice, stay clear of Bible commentaries.
 
May 9, 2012
1,514
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#5
Commentaries are actually useful because they dig into the original language and word meanings whereas some people take the English for the English and that's it.
 
T

TrainforGodliness

Guest
#6
Among biblical scholars the authorship of this particular passage is heavily disputed. It seems like most people gravitate toward those scholars which affirm their preconceived ideas about women teaching/speaking in church, so I doubt the fact that the authorship is a point of contention resolves the matter for anyone, but it seems to me worth mentioning either way.

On a different note, it is possibly important that none of Paul's other letters to churches give the same directive or really even hint at his stance on the issue one way or the other. That is to say, this doesn't seem to be a matter of great importance to Paul generally, but rather a matter that became important to him specifically in the Corinthian context. So the question I feel I must ask is: Why does Paul suddenly address this issue to this congregation at this point in time? It is clear in chapters 12-14 that Paul feels the need to emphasize that the church gatherings should be orderly. Speaking for myself only, I find this a little odd given that at this point in time (ca. 50-60 AD) the church was still a largely egalitarian (in this case I use egalitarian in the sense of non-hierarchical rather than male/female equality) assembly of believers who met in homes and practiced Spirit-led worship rather than previously determined orders of worship. To put it more directly, the early church seems to have practiced worship that was not "organized", even if not entirely disorderly. So again, why is Paul concerned about orderly worship HERE and "NOW"? In the broader context of 1 Corinthians, I find the most satisfying answer to be that the Corinthian church was experiencing tremendous upheaval because of the presence of warring factions who were seeking to exert their spiritual "superiority". These factions were subverting the real purpose of the gatherings, hence Paul's emphasis on orderly worship and, especially, on the need for the church to function as a unified body of interdependent parts.

If these verses are in fact part of Paul's original letter to the Corinthian ecclesia, then it seems likely that Paul singles out the women as one of the factions that had been seeking to establish their spiritual superiority. This would help to explain why Paul addresses this topic to the Corinthian gathering while he was silent on this issue with all of the other gatherings for which we have his letters. It certainly places these verses solidly within the larger context of 1 Corinthians better than many alternative explanations that I have seen.
 

DaveTheRave

Senior Member
May 28, 2014
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#7
I don't know the exact answer to this question but it is important to keep in mind the culture of the time when interpreting verses. Corinthians was Paul's letter to the people of the city of Corinth. Corinth was a Greek city and it's culture was different to that of the Jews. In Greek culture, Women were treated as more important than men as they were considered to have something that men wanted I.e. men were seen as inferior as they had a stronger 'sex drive'(for want of a better phrase). Knowing this has helped me look at the book from a different point of view. I hope this helps.
 
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Revelator7

Guest
#8
Women are to be silent when in the church. At home, in the marketplace, anywhere else, she can speak, she can pray, she can prophesy. 1 Cor 11 doesn't mention anything about being in the church for things like covering your head or prophesy for women. It just speaks about these things in a general perspective. 1 Cor 14 however does talk about being in the church. If we deduct that women in the churches cannot speak or teach or preach from 1 Cor 14, then to bring harmony to God's word, to keep it in order by dividing the scriptures correctly, we can deduct that women outside of church do not have to be silent, because at home she can asks her husband questions. She can pray and she can prophesy, but in a church setting she cannot speak, so to make it uncontradictory and bring harmony to God's word, we should apply women being able to do things that aren't in a church setting. This is my take on it.
 
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Revelator7

Guest
#9
Commentaries are actually useful because they dig into the original language and word meanings whereas some people take the English for the English and that's it.
From my experience, commentaries usually are the opinion of mere men that are "special" because they have gone to school and have been taught by "the best". But as John says, we don't need any man to teach us if the anointing from the Holy Spirit is real, he teaches us all things. Men who teach just stand as people only confirm what the word of God says, rather than people who give opinon about what the word of God says. Pharisees of Jesus' day were all "masters" in other words "rabbis" and the best teachers. but the majority of them were in error of the Scriptures. can't trust someone just because they say they went to school. Albert Einstein is a prime example of a genius who didn't need school. School bored him. As long as you got the gift of the Holy Spirit, you can understand the Scriptures.
 

DaveTheRave

Senior Member
May 28, 2014
125
8
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#10
Women are to be silent when in the church. At home, in the marketplace, anywhere else, she can speak, she can pray, she can prophesy. 1 Cor 11 doesn't mention anything about being in the church for things like covering your head or prophesy for women. It just speaks about these things in a general perspective. 1 Cor 14 however does talk about being in the church. If we deduct that women in the churches cannot speak or teach or preach from 1 Cor 14, then to bring harmony to God's word, to keep it in order by dividing the scriptures correctly, we can deduct that women outside of church do not have to be silent, because at home she can asks her husband questions. She can pray and she can prophesy, but in a church setting she cannot speak, so to make it uncontradictory and bring harmony to God's word, we should apply women being able to do things that aren't in a church setting. This is my take on it.
Why can they not speak in church? I understand that you will probably say 'because the the bible says so' but why does it? I'm not trying to be argumentative I'm moreso just wondering
 

Joidevivre

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2014
3,838
271
83
#11
Oh Revelator - Have you sold everything you have and given the money to the church to divide equally among its members? Without the commentaries telling us why things were happening in the early churches, we would be doing this if we were following the admonitions literally. And since there are two or more Christians gathered on this site talking to each other, which could be considered a church in Christ's eyes, I, as a woman, probably should not be speaking out at all on anything.

Oh well... my husband loves it when I speak up or pray in a gathering of believers. That is good enough for me.
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
6,002
764
113
39
Australia
#12
I don't know the exact answer to this question but it is important to keep in mind the culture of the time when interpreting verses. Corinthians was Paul's letter to the people of the city of Corinth. Corinth was a Greek city and it's culture was different to that of the Jews. In Greek culture, Women were treated as more important than men as they were considered to have something that men wanted I.e. men were seen as inferior as they had a stronger 'sex drive'(for want of a better phrase). Knowing this has helped me look at the book from a different point of view. I hope this helps.
Yes, women were superior to men in all things in that culture. That's hard for us to grasp in our times lol
 

DaveTheRave

Senior Member
May 28, 2014
125
8
18
25
#14
From my experience, commentaries usually are the opinion of mere men that are "special" because they have gone to school and have been taught by "the best". But as John says, we don't need any man to teach us if the anointing from the Holy Spirit is real, he teaches us all things. Men who teach just stand as people only confirm what the word of God says, rather than people who give opinon about what the word of God says. Pharisees of Jesus' day were all "masters" in other words "rabbis" and the best teachers. but the majority of them were in error of the Scriptures. can't trust someone just because they say they went to school. Albert Einstein is a prime example of a genius who didn't need school. School bored him. As long as you got the gift of the Holy Spirit, you can understand the Scriptures.
I think the point of commentaries are to provide a bit of extra knowledge about the subject that can be used or not. I don't think that its supposed to be concrete doctrine.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
#15
Why can they not speak in church? I understand that you will probably say 'because the the bible says so' but why does it? I'm not trying to be argumentative I'm moreso just wondering
They can speak, this was my point earlier...

1 Corinthians 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

See, they do speak. See post 2 for fuller explanation.
 
R

Revelator7

Guest
#16
Among biblical scholars the authorship of this particular passage is heavily disputed. It seems like most people gravitate toward those scholars which affirm their preconceived ideas about women teaching/speaking in church, so I doubt the fact that the authorship is a point of contention resolves the matter for anyone, but it seems to me worth mentioning either way.

On a different note, it is possibly important that none of Paul's other letters to churches give the same directive or really even hint at his stance on the issue one way or the other. That is to say, this doesn't seem to be a matter of great importance to Paul generally, but rather a matter that became important to him specifically in the Corinthian context. So the question I feel I must ask is: Why does Paul suddenly address this issue to this congregation at this point in time? It is clear in chapters 12-14 that Paul feels the need to emphasize that the church gatherings should be orderly. Speaking for myself only, I find this a little odd given that at this point in time (ca. 50-60 AD) the church was still a largely egalitarian (in this case I use egalitarian in the sense of non-hierarchical rather than male/female equality) assembly of believers who met in homes and practiced Spirit-led worship rather than previously determined orders of worship. To put it more directly, the early church seems to have practiced worship that was not "organized", even if not entirely disorderly. So again, why is Paul concerned about orderly worship HERE and "NOW"? In the broader context of 1 Corinthians, I find the most satisfying answer to be that the Corinthian church was experiencing tremendous upheaval because of the presence of warring factions who were seeking to exert their spiritual "superiority". These factions were subverting the real purpose of the gatherings, hence Paul's emphasis on orderly worship and, especially, on the need for the church to function as a unified body of interdependent parts.

If these verses are in fact part of Paul's original letter to the Corinthian ecclesia, then it seems likely that Paul singles out the women as one of the factions that had been seeking to establish their spiritual superiority. This would help to explain why Paul addresses this topic to the Corinthian gathering while he was silent on this issue with all of the other gatherings for which we have his letters. It certainly places these verses solidly within the larger context of 1 Corinthians better than many alternative explanations that I have seen.
Paul meant the same thing for all churches, not just Corinthians.


33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches (not just corinth...) of the saints.
34 Let your[d] women keep silent in the churches (plural...), for they are not permitted to speak; butthey are to be submissive, as the law also says. 35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church (a general principle).
36 Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached? 37 If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. 38 But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant.

If we believe we are spiritual Christian's, then what Paul wrote here is a spiritual principle, not just for one church but for all spiritual churches.

 

DaveTheRave

Senior Member
May 28, 2014
125
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#17
Lol I think the coversation went on a bit of a tangent
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
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#19
I am calling out the mocking spirit in you. Mocking another brother is not godly, but shows disdain and hatred.
Ok, some have no sense of humor. Mind responding to...

1 Corinthians 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
 
R

Revelator7

Guest
#20
I think the point of commentaries are to provide a bit of extra knowledge about the subject that can be used or not. I don't think that its supposed to be concrete doctrine.
A lot of people use it as concrete doctrine. Rather than thinking for themselves by mediating on the word of God with the Holy Spirit in them, they are quick to reference bible commentaries, the opinion of men before they do the word of God at face value that is written in plain English. You're right it is to provide a extra perspective. I'm just saying that i've witnessed a lot of Christian's using commentaries as the final word to sum up the word of God