Can Divorce Actually Be A Bit More Complicated?

[JesusIsAll]

A Christian woman marries a man she thought Christian also, but who turns out to be an abuser, unexpectedly and to her dismay. He can get physically violent, is, in fact, borderline psychopathic, demonstrably has shown an inability to change. Should the woman feel free to separate and divorce from this man?

 

[kennethcadwell]

Yes for our Lord said that divorce is acceptable if done because of sexual immorality.
If the woman is being abused, chances are 9 times out of 10 if not 10 out of 10 she is being sexual abused to.
There will be no true love in that relationship, and the woman would feel forced to have sex out of fear of what would happen if she doesn't.
Sexual immorality is acceptable grounds for divorce.

Matthew 5:32

But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Yes for our Lord said that divorce is acceptable if done because of sexual immorality.
If the woman is being abused, chances are 9 times out of 10 if not 10 out of 10 she is being sexual abused to.
There will be no true love in that relationship, and the woman would feel forced to have sex out of fear of what would happen if she doesn't.
Sexual immorality is acceptable grounds for divorce.

Matthew 5:32

But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Quite a thoughtful answer, of some real depth. Thank you!

 

[watty]

Yes for our Lord said that divorce is acceptable if done because of sexual immorality.
If the woman is being abused, chances are 9 times out of 10 if not 10 out of 10 she is being sexual abused to.
There will be no true love in that relationship, and the woman would feel forced to have sex out of fear of what would happen if she doesn't.
Sexual immorality is acceptable grounds for divorce.

Matthew 5:32

But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

What if the woman is not in fact being sexually abused, only physically abused?

 

[JesusIsAll]

What if the woman is not in fact being sexually abused, only physically abused?

Good point. What of acts not of love? If a Christian should not be joined to a prostitute, should a Christian be joined to a murderer?

1 John 3:14-15 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

 

[watty]

Yes for our Lord said that divorce is acceptable if done because of sexual immorality.
If the woman is being abused, chances are 9 times out of 10 if not 10 out of 10 she is being sexual abused to.
There will be no true love in that relationship, and the woman would feel forced to have sex out of fear of what would happen if she doesn't.
Sexual immorality is acceptable grounds for divorce.

Matthew 5:32

But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Ken when you say "chances are 9 times out of 10 if not 10 out of 10 she is being sexual abused to." it sounds much like when there is a court case of violence which involves 2 people of different races one side will try to say it is a hate crime. They are quick to point out statistics, 9 out of 10 times. What about the one time it was not. One person is wronged based on statistics. This is the difference between Jesus teachings and the world. The world accepts losing 1 for the majority. Jesus gave us the example of the good Shepard; how he stopped and found the 1 that was lost. Everyone is important no sacrifice of 1 no not 1

 

[watty]

Good point. What of acts not of love? If a Christian should not be joined to a prostitute, should a Christian be joined to a murderer?

1 John 3:14-15 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Can a prostitute and a murderer be forgiven? I think so. Once they have confessed and repented of their sin they are clean and forgiven, yet they may still pay the consequences for their sins.

 

[kennethcadwell]

What if the woman is not in fact being sexually abused, only physically abused?

Once again if the women is being physically abused, do you not think that her love for her husband is only out of fear.
How many abuse victims do you see on a regular basis defend their abusive husbands?
They do this because of low self esteem they suffer at the hands of the abuse. They believe they either deserved to be abused, or that if they leave they will find nothing better but enter another situation of the same abusive nature.
The true love is lost, and everything she does including sex becomes done out of fear. Fear he will hit her if she says no, fear that she can not get away, fear that she will not end up in a better situation if she does leave. She ends up living in a life of fear of her own actions. So yes there would still be sexual immorality involved.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Can a prostitute and a murderer be forgiven? I think so. Once they have confessed and repented of their sin they are clean and forgiven, yet they may still pay the consequences for their sins.

But in terms of divorce? An adulterer may certainly be forgiven, also. Should this woman be free to divorce, no repentance coming forth from this man, whose acts of hateful anger are tantamount to murder in scripture?

 

[JesusIsAll]

Here's our Lord Jesus on somebody who may have never actually gotten physical in their rage,

Matthew 5:21-22 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Should the woman be free to divorce, or is she obligated to continue to live under the conditions of hell fire crimes?

 

[watty]

Here's our Lord Jesus on somebody who may have never actually gotten physical in their rage,

Matthew 5:21-22 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Should the woman be free to divorce, or is she obligated to continue to live under the conditions of hell fire crimes?

I don't read anywhere someone got physical in these scriptures.
I have an answer to "Should the woman be free to divorce, or is she obligated to continue to live under the conditions of hell fire crimes" for my life only. The woman needs to go to God for those answers. I would not put myself in a position to do the couple harm, because you cannot know all things that transpired in the marriage, only God does.

 

[watty]

Once again if the women is being physically abused, do you not think that her love for her husband is only out of fear.
How many abuse victims do you see on a regular basis defend their abusive husbands?
They do this because of low self esteem they suffer at the hands of the abuse. They believe they either deserved to be abused, or that if they leave they will find nothing better but enter another situation of the same abusive nature.
The true love is lost, and everything she does including sex becomes done out of fear. Fear he will hit her if she says no, fear that she can not get away, fear that she will not end up in a better situation if she does leave. She ends up living in a life of fear of her own actions. So yes there would still be sexual immorality involved.

Stop making excuses up. No excuses needed, seek God's wisdom, not man's lack of wisdom in others affairs. Listen to man and make the wrong choice is up to you. If you have 5 kids and they are starving because no one will help you or employ you, do you steal food? If you get caught stealing food, should you be arrested for stealing, or not, by telling the police your excuse for stealing?

 

[JesusIsAll]

I don't read anywhere someone got physical in these scriptures.

Exactly, the point that short of physical anger is roundly condemned as most evil.

I have an answer to "Should the woman be free to divorce, or is she obligated to continue to live under the conditions of hell fire crimes" for my life only. The woman needs to go to God for those answers. I would not put myself in a position to do the couple harm, because you cannot know all things that transpired in the marriage, only God does.

Yes, very much agree with your good answer there, and I also believe we're hitting on further truths that go directly to walking in the light, the Spirit, a faith that's alive.

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

[JesusIsAll]

The true love is lost, and everything she does including sex becomes done out of fear. Fear he will hit her if she says no, fear that she can not get away, fear that she will not end up in a better situation if she does leave. She ends up living in a life of fear of her own actions. So yes there would still be sexual immorality involved.

But I would also ask what I have no way of not seeing as a legitimate question: what is worse, sexual immorality or murder? Does murder get a pass?

 

[kennethcadwell]

Ken when you say "chances are 9 times out of 10 if not 10 out of 10 she is being sexual abused to." it sounds much like when there is a court case of violence which involves 2 people of different races one side will try to say it is a hate crime. They are quick to point out statistics, 9 out of 10 times. What about the one time it was not. One person is wronged based on statistics. This is the difference between Jesus teachings and the world. The world accepts losing 1 for the majority. Jesus gave us the example of the good Shepard; how he stopped and found the 1 that was lost. Everyone is important no sacrifice of 1 no not 1

You have a good point, however that works in reverse to with God.
If ones selfless act of giving their life away because of their love for the Lord brings others to the Lord then this is also accepted.

Example: Girl in Waco, Texas who had a gun put to her, and told to renounce the Lord or die.
She did not, so he killed her. In this one's act of love for the Lord, hundreds came to know the Lord.


God allowed this act of one individual life to be taken, because it brought hundreds more to believe in Him.

People turn things into race issues, not statistics.
I don't believe all statistics, but I have seen abused women and talked to some and what they said to me fit right with the statistics I have heard. They defended their abusers, suffered low self-esteem, and lived in total fear.

One statistic I don't agree with is the one that says if you are abused as a child, you will become an abuser.
I have known and talked to a lot of people who were abused as children, that are not abusive themselves.
My mom is even an example of that, she was abused by her father growing up, but she never once abused me or my sister's.
She was loving and caring, and taught good moral values.

 

[watty]

But I would also ask what I have no way of not seeing as a legitimate question: what is worse, sexual immorality or murder? Does murder get a pass?

That's up to God. Adultery can cause the innocent to become the walking dead due to pain and suffering. I will not answer what only God can and you shouldn't either. A good Christian counselor will try to workout a marriage so the family stays together. The counselor will identify what is needed for each party to survive the marriage. In some cases either the man or the woman is looking for a way out of the marriage and given your reasoning they have it. The question is was the whole thing a setup by the party wanting to vacate the marriage and not be at fault in the eyes of man. I've seen it all!

 

[kennethcadwell]

But I would also ask what I have no way of not seeing as a legitimate question: what is worse, sexual immorality or murder? Does murder get a pass?

No sin gets a pass.
You must repent of your sins or parish, like Jesus said in Luke 13. Even somebody who just tells lies will have their part in the lake of fire unless they repent of lying.

Luke 13:3
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.


The emphasis of one sin being worse than another is what we do. The bible says all sin is enmity to God, and we will die in those sins unless they are repented of.

 

[JesusIsAll]

That's up to God. Adultery can cause the innocent to become the walking dead due to pain and suffering. I will not answer what only God can and you shouldn't either. A good Christian counselor will try to workout a marriage so the family stays together. The counselor will identify what is needed for each party to survive the marriage. In some cases either the man or the woman is looking for a way out of the marriage and given your reasoning they have it. The question is was the whole thing a setup by the party wanting to vacate the marriage and not be at fault in the eyes of man. I've seen it all!

Again, I'm referring to the case of an intractably angry and violent man, not anybody dissembling, which you've introduced, which does not go to the original issue as stated.

 

[watty]

You have a good point, however that works in reverse to with God.
If ones selfless act of giving their life away because of their love for the Lord brings others to the Lord then this is also accepted.

Example: Girl in Waco, Texas who had a gun put to her, and told to renounce the Lord or die.
She did not, so he killed her. In this one's act of love for the Lord, hundreds came to know the Lord.


God allowed this act of one individual life to be taken, because it brought hundreds more to believe in Him.

People turn things into race issues, not statistics.
I don't believe all statistics, but I have seen abused women and talked to some and what they said to me fit right with the statistics I have heard. They defended their abusers, suffered low self-esteem, and lived in total fear.

One statistic I don't agree with is the one that says if you are abused as a child, you will become an abuser.
I have known and talked to a lot of people who were abused as children, that are not abusive themselves.
My mom is even an example of that, she was abused by her father growing up, but she never once abused me or my sister's.
She was loving and caring, and taught good moral values.

You see Ken, here is the problem. We are talking about divorce and there is much more that can be done prior to divorce, separation for an example and counseling.
I don't advise anyone to stay in a violent situation, leave. No excuse, in Texas you could kill your spouse if they were caught in the act of adultery, legally. in the past, not too many years ago the law has change making it illegal to kill your spouse.

 

[JesusIsAll]

No sin gets a pass.
You must repent of your sins or parish, like Jesus said in Luke 13. Even somebody who just tells lies will have their part in the lake of fire unless they repent of lying.

Luke 13:3
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.


The emphasis of one sin being worse than another is what we do. The bible says all sin is enmity to God, and we will die in those sins unless they are repented of.

Of course, but should the woman feel free to separate from and divorce the intractable, unrepentant violent man?