Christ's Gospel? Paul's Gospel?

[crossnote]

Jesus an apostle to the Jews, came to fulfill that which was spoken of Him in the Law and the prophets and die for the sins of the world.

Paul an apostle to the Gentiles announced the mystery of the Gospel, laid hiddenin Christ but now revealed...

Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Rom 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
(Eph 3:3-7)

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
(Eph 3:9)

And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
(Eph 6:19)

Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
(Col 1:25-27)

 

[JGIG]

You say Paul teaches Christ fulfilled the law, and Christ said the law stays as written. Paul is reported as saying we are dead to the law, and Christ says He offers forgiveness so we are saved. Also that all the law will never change. I think this proves that your interpretation of Paul is wrong.

If all the Law will never change (which I agree with, btw, jots and tittles, ya know), then why aren't you offering sacrifices and going to Jerusalem for the appointed times?

How does what you're doing (keeping only the snippets of the Law that are convenient for you) line up with what you wrote above? If sinning is transgressing the Law and you know that you're doing it, isn't that willful (not ignorant) sin?

Uh oh.

-JGIG

 

[JGIG]

One has to wonder, at the outset, what this concept is of Christ's versus Paul's gospel, when scripture is all God-breathed of the Holy Spirit. Really, there is no Paul gospel: it's all the gospel of Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

True. That said, there are those in Law-keeping sects that believe that Paul's writings should not be included in the Canon (including the letter to the Hebrews, though the author is not conclusively known).

Others twist Paul's letters to oblivion to 'prove' their Law-keeping paradigm.

-JGIG

 

[vic1980]

We know this is so, yet many verses in Paul's letters can be read as saying just the opposite.

The problem really is the translation of scripture. The original of scripture makes it clear that what Paul was against was the legalistic interpretation of the law. Even the word "law" itself is not very well done, the word Torah translated as law means to guide, to teach.

We should think of the people and circumstances of the world Paul was speaking to in order to find the eternal principles Paul gives for our living. The Jews had centuries of training in how to use the symbolic blood of Christ for salvation, they had to be trained to use the real blood of Christ for salvation. They used diet eliminating foods from animals who ate garbage to symbolize food for their minds that should be clean, now they could just use the Holy Spirit to guide to that. It affected every aspect of their lives. The gentiles had it just as tough. They had been taught that to accept the one true God they must become Jews and live the Hebrew lifestyle. Paul had to teach them Christ and Torah, but not through such as diet. Paul had to teach everyone not to use legalistic law but to use law in spirit and truth.

To this day, people are not understanding Paul. They say we are under grace not law, so don't listen to law. They say that teachings of the OT are obsolete, not that Christ made a wonderful change. They say the bible is ONLY for salvation, it has nothing to do with guiding us to abundant living here on earth. The misunderstanding goes on and on.

But Paul taught by the Holyspirit said :

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

God Bless

 

[JGIG]

JGIG, just stopping by to say i have missed you.

glad to see you again. ♥

~ellie

Aw, thanks ♥. I pop in when I can .

Much love in Christ,
-JGIG

 

[crossnote]

Aw, thanks ♥. I pop in when I can .

Much love in Christ,
-JGIG

and what a blessing when you do.

 

[Jason0047]

What a blessing you are to the Christian world that you can say that to fulfill is not to abolish, and even give examples of it! It is a breath of fresh air.

Then you ruin it by saying that the Old Covenant, the contracts we have with God before we had the new covenant all need to be fulfilled. Whatever that means. Paul is simply reporting that the legalistic law need not be followed. Many Jews said that you had to be physically circumcised, that you had to go to the rabbis to be cleared to become a Jew and follow these laws, and Paul said that you did not. The epistle tells why you don't. It had nothing to do with the spiritual laws, they can not be changed all scripture says so. It had nothing to do with the old covenant, whatever you think that covenant was. And we are still expected to live our life by the spiritual law. We can eat pork, but we can't feed our mind garbage. Physical circumcision is not necessary, but we are still to live by the Holy Spirit and not by our flesh.

Not sure you understand. I believe the Law of Moses is vanished away and has been fulfilled by Jesus Christ and we now are under a New Covenant with Jesus Christ. The New Covenant (i.e. New Testament) is full of New Testament commands for us to follow (That supercede any OT Laws). We do not follow these Laws so as to hope to be saved, but we repent of our sins and accept and believe on Jesus as our Savior and He helps us to do the "good work" within us to obey the New Testament. For Jesus deserves all the glory, honor, and power. For it's why the elders cast down their crowns before Jesus. The Old Testamment is just a shadow of the cross. The OT pointed to Jesus (Including the OT Law).

 

[JGIG]

Wow!! I am being told from all sides that I am wrong. Yet each of these posts saying I am wrong say they believe in both Paul and Christ, and yet stick to the theory that Paul is speaking against the spiritual law! If that is what Paul is doing (I don't believe that for a minute) then you have to go through all kinds of acrobatics of thought to make it come out the same.

Not at all, RedTent. Paul is very clear that he teaches the proper use of the Law, and that is to lead people to Christ. Once we enter into the Death and Resurrection of Christ, the Law has nothing more to do with us and we have nothing more to do with the Law:

4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code. (from Rom. 7)

19 “For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!” (from Gal. 2)

23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise. (from Gal. 3)
​

I don't see how you can all go on about how Christ was not one with the Father

Who has said that? In my OP I actually said this:

God was no longer relating to mankind - nor was He desiring mankind to relate to Him - through the Law, but through the Work and Person of God in the flesh, Christ Jesus.​

Clearly I believe that God and Christ Jesus are One.

and with Paul, too,

???

and talk so about how they don't speak with one voice giving the same message. Christ's law and God's law is based on the same principle.

Actually, no. The Old Covenant is about what we must do to please God to relate to Him; the New Covenant is about what God did for us so that we may enter in by faith to have relationship with Him. The Old Covenant relies on our performance; the New Covenant relies on His performance (as did the other covenant of faith, btw, the Abrahamic Covenant).

The new covenant and the old covenant was given by the same God, one does not contradict the other. We have only ONE God.

And on that we agree !

-JGIG

 

[RedTent]

If all the Law will never change (which I agree with, btw, jots and tittles, ya know), then why aren't you offering sacrifices and going to Jerusalem for the appointed times?

How does what you're doing (keeping only the snippets of the Law that are convenient for you) line up with what you wrote above? If sinning is transgressing the Law and you know that you're doing it, isn't that willful (not ignorant) sin?

Uh oh.

-JGIG

How very mixed up and not going by scripture!! When Christ died for us and the real blood of Christ was given to replace the animal blood, it was still blood sacrificed and the blood of animals symbolized Christ's blood. The principle of blood sacrificed stayed, Christ fulfilled it. We are to read all the OT and as we read that, go to the new testament to see if it is completed. Scripture is to be read in spirit and truth, you are looking at it legalistically. No symbols, no spirit, just the physical. That is not scripture. It is the same with the appointed times. Did Christ fulfill them? Many of them still stand, but by not reading scripture except legalistically, you wouldn't be able to follow that.

I resent "snippets of the law convenient for you". That is just trying to find fault. We are not here to do that, we are working together for truth.

 

[JGIG]

If all the Law will never change (which I agree with, btw, jots and tittles, ya know), then why aren't you offering sacrifices and going to Jerusalem for the appointed times?

How does what you're doing (keeping only the snippets of the Law that are convenient for you) line up with what you wrote above? If sinning is transgressing the Law and you know that you're doing it, isn't that willful (not ignorant) sin?

Uh oh.

-JGIG

How very mixed up and not going by scripture!! When Christ died for us and the real blood of Christ was given to replace the animal blood, it was still blood sacrificed and the blood of animals symbolized Christ's blood. The principle of blood sacrificed stayed, Christ fulfilled it. We are to read all the OT and as we read that, go to the new testament to see if it is completed. Scripture is to be read in spirit and truth, you are looking at it legalistically. No symbols, no spirit, just the physical. That is not scripture. It is the same with the appointed times. Did Christ fulfill them? Many of them still stand, but by not reading scripture except legalistically, you wouldn't be able to follow that.

I resent "snippets of the law convenient for you". That is just trying to find fault. We are not here to do that, we are working together for truth.

RedTent, you wrote this:

Originally Posted by RedTent

You say Paul teaches Christ fulfilled the law, and Christ said the law stays as written. Paul is reported as saying we are dead to the law, and Christ says He offers forgiveness so we are saved. Also that all the law will never change. I think this proves that your interpretation of Paul is wrong.
​

So which post should we believe that you believe and practice?

And where in the New Covenant Scriptures does it say that we are to look for the things that Christ did and did not fulfill? Christ said He came to fulfill the Law (Mt. 5).

Did He fulfill it as He said He came to do or did He lie?

-JGIG

 

[Yahshua]

If all the Law will never change (which I agree with, btw, jots and tittles, ya know), then why aren't you offering sacrifices and going to Jerusalem for the appointed times?

How does what you're doing (keeping only the snippets of the Law that are convenient for you) line up with what you wrote above? If sinning is transgressing the Law and you know that you're doing it, isn't that willful (not ignorant) sin?

Uh oh.

-JGIG

But JGIG, the law didn't change.

We have a high priest who offered sacrifice for sin, who ministers daily in the temple of God as our representative, which is *exactly* what the law prescribed; a payment in blood for sin and a high priest. And as far as going to Jerusalem for the appointed Times; the law enumerates that all able-bodied *men* are to venture to Jerusalem three times a year for the feasts, not women...and that's only if one can make it there. Actually, to be more specific; the law says to venture to the place where "God places his name", which is the Temple. There's no longer a temple (and never will be again imho).

Not all of God's law was meant for *every single person* who was a citizen of Israel. Some were for women...some were for men...some where exclusively for Levites...some where for if/when you're in the land...some where for you regardless of where you are (like The Commandments).

Respectfully, this misunderstanding is what Peter was talking about when he said (2 Peter 3:16)

[Paul] writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

We must clearly understand the Hebrew scriptures (i.e. today's 1st 5 books of the bible), every jot and tittle to the minutest detail, to make accurate heads or tails of all of what Paul says...and also what Christ says.

 

[RedTent]

Not at all, RedTent. Paul is very clear that he teaches the proper use of the Law, and that is to lead people to Christ. Once we enter into the Death and Resurrection of Christ, the Law has nothing more to do with us and we have nothing more to do with the Law:

4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code. (from Rom. 7)

19 “For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!” (from Gal. 2)

23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise. (from Gal. 3) ​

Who has said that? In my OP I actually said this:​

God was no longer relating to mankind - nor was He desiring mankind to relate to Him - through the Law, but through the Work and Person of God in the flesh, Christ Jesus.​

Clearly I believe that God and Christ Jesus are One.

Actually, no. The Old Covenant is about what we must do to please God to relate to Him; the New Covenant is about what God did for us so that we may enter in by faith to have relationship with Him. The Old Covenant relies on our performance; the New Covenant relies on His performance (as did the other covenant of faith, btw, the Abrahamic Covenant).

And on that we agree !

We really don't have much agreement between us. You limit the law to one function, I don't. You say that Christ can live in you and you can still deny the spiritual law of the Lord. I say that Pau is talking about the legalistic law. You say the Old Covenant is what we MUST do to please God, I say it is about blessings we have when we walk with Christ in our life.

Have you taken the time to actually read the covenant given to Moses? It is about how to live, not about salvation.

 

[TheClimaxWarrior]

We really don't have much agreement between us. You limit the law to one function, I don't. You say that Christ can live in you and you can still deny the spiritual law of the Lord. I say that Pau is talking about the legalistic law. You say the Old Covenant is what we MUST do to please God, I say it is about blessings we have when we walk with Christ in our life.

Have you taken the time to actually read the covenant given to Moses? It is about how to live, not about salvation.

What are you on about. Really, have taken the time to meditate on the word of GOD. It's like comparing you to an Atheist. You go so far then suddenly drop off the charts.

Paul was chosen to be the rightful messenger of Christ, to proclaim His death His love vanquished the Ten Commandments plus the underlying laws and of the prophets. Because of His sacrifice JESUS literally created a NEW Beginning and because of His love in sacrifice Christianity is the easiest religion to be apart of than any other religion in the whole wide worlds entire existence.

Paul again I will say 'solidified' this fact by proclaiming a new born a saved Christian can now live their lives without stress, depression, oppression, suppression, anxiety and everything that came with having to keep the laws and of the prophets. The reason being JESUS never intended to love Him to be so hard and difficult.

Because JESUS is GOD the 2nd Person of the GODHEAD. He is also all knowing. He knew the ramifications of the traditions of men were leading the lost sheep to damnation. For example: When JESUS was Baptized upon His own doing. He represented His Baptism for all mankind. Man does not need to be Baptized, though we are asked/commanded to but it is not compulsory as we are saved just by believing He is the One true GOD. But we want to do so to bear witness to others our dedication in marriage to Him.

Now with the Comforter in our presence. He moves within us which brings forth knowledge and understanding and the five other gifts to lead us into carrying out the laws with all of our heart, strength, body and soul. The spiritual law as you so call it. It becomes natural. We want to because we love Him because He obviously love us first.

I don't know where you got the notion Pauline is supposedly one with Christ opposing the Holy Trinity. That is just a ridiculous concept even if it is an example. It simply ain't true. How can you be against Pauline Teachings when He was mightily moved by the Holy Spirit.

Instead of being against us. How's about jumping on the winning team and just enjoy the ride!

 

[Yahshua]

To answer the OP; I say they're complementary, but I come to a different conclusion as to why (forgive me for the length)...


John 1:17

For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

The messages Christ & Paul spoke are complementary to each other. One does not nullify the other...but the problem is (always) context.

If we hold the proper context we find that Paul preaches "The Gospel of the Grace of Christ"...while Christ preaches "The Gospel of the Kingdom of God". These are not the same things, but they are so *critically* linked.

- Christ preached, "Love God and keep his commandments. Do not commit crimes against God." He never preached to the public that he would die for anyone's sins. He only told the public in a riddle, or privately told those closest to him.

- Paul preached, "Without Christ's act on the cross, we could never be reconciled to God for the crimes we do commit."


Notice the awesome dynamic between the two gospels.

Paul's message doesn't nullify or supersede Christ's message but explains how Christ made it possible for us truly to be "set right" in order to "start over", so that we can - with a clean slate and the power to - do what Christ said to do...which is love God and keep his commandments to enter into the kingdom.

----

God's Law 101

Section A: What to do (and not to do) to "show love" to God and to avoid being placed "under the (penalty of) law".

Section B: What to do for "salvation" of oneself if/when one finds oneself "under the (penalty of) law".


Even our nation's laws have this dynamic: what to do to be "law-abiding" and then the remedy/payment for "breaking the law". Both instructions are found in the law of the land, so both can be labeled "The Law".

Both A and B are sections in God's Law. Section "A" is the constitution of God's Kingdom; immutable; unchangeable, will never be nullified. One can't claim citizenship in his kingdom without adhering to his constitution. However section "B" is the "fix" for when God's people sin (i.e. violate section "A").

Section "A" of the law points out (or "defines") what a sin is (i.e. what acts will place one under the law's penalty). While section "B" of the law is a type & shadow that could never actually "save" anyone from a penalty...but it was given as instructions from God to "temporarily cover" the offending party, until a point in time when Christ provided the *true form* of Section "B".

So even before Christ's act on the cross God's grace was always there. Our violation of Section "A" proved God had every right to judge us in death, yet he chose not to. He chose to give us Section "B" to satisfy the law *until* Christ came to do it "fully". So section "B" is the reason why the law was considered unfulfilled/incomplete: The Sacrifices couldn't pay for or cleanse sin. Here's the math...

Law: Section "A" = The Commandments (our works of faithful obedience)
+ Law: Section "B" = The Sacrifices (a type & shadow; our works for salvation)
__________________________________________

The Law of Sin & Death


But because our flesh HATES God's law, when we were made aware of God's commandments (i.e. Section "A") it only made us want to break them even more (i.e. "the law made sin increased..."). But Paul explains in Ephesians 2:15 that Christ...

"Having abolished in his flesh the EMNITY... (ἔχθραν, echthran = Hostility...a word *completely left out* of modern versions of this verse) of the law of commandments and ordinances..."

Christ was finally here to be the peace & piece, the true Section "B" that God's Law was missing and waiting for: The true eternal Grace. Christ completed God's law; fulfilled God's law...Christ completed/fulfilled God's law. Here's the math...


Law: Section "A" = The Commandments (our works of faithful obedience)
+ TRUE Section "B" = Christ's Sacrifice & Heavenly Ministry (faith in his work of salvation)
__________________________________________

The Law of Spirit & Life


Christ was the end of the law, meaning the last piece missing from it; the completion to it, the perfection of it. Before Christ every man (along with the High Priest) had to perform the work of saving themselves from the penalty of their sins. But this work of (section "B" of) the law could *never* truly justify a man in the eyes of God because it was only a shadow of Christ's act...but there were people during Paul's day who - even after confessing Christ - continued to sacrifice animals whenever they sinned. This was a hard habit to break. They continued to perform this law even though the law of sin & death (i.e. sacrifices) was replaced with Christ. So continuing to perform this sacrificial act & ministry on their own was - in effect - denying the sacrificial act & ministry Christ performed/performs in heaven since it requires faith (i.e. us believing in it even though no one can see Christ doing it).

But for those who believe, Christ then pours out his Holy Spirit, giving us his love...and with his love we can actually experience a clear conscience for our sin and also *want* to perform Section "A" (Ezekiel 36:27); perform works of faithful obedience for *no other reason* but because we now love God just that much.

 

[4enlightment]

Remember, at the time Jesus was alive when He had said this, and so the Laws were still in effect. Jesus must show that man is able to complete the laws in order to be not consider as a worthless being and to keep them from being cast away from His presence, permanently. And so, once man has proven that he isn't worthless, then it is up to God to decide to keep them, or not. Everyone must go through hardship to the point of breaking, and if they hang in there to the end, and still believe that God is still with them, and which most people abandons the faith after a few hardships; but if they still believe in the word as the whole truth, then they will be consider as sons and will be exempted from being judge by their works, and which faith has saved them. And so Jesus didn't had came to remove them without the penalty, but He has stand in for us to represent the whole human race and so that He can be penalized for all the sins that we has done to complete it, because to pay back to God for our sins is death. But now since He had complete it, He had also had removed the laws, because we aren't able to keep them because we are weak.

John 11:50 You do not realize that it is better for you that one man die for the people than that the whole nation perish.”

Matthew 17:26 “From others,” Peter answered. “Then the children are exempt,” Jesus said to him.

Luke 7:50 Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

 

[RedTent]

Not at all, RedTent. Paul is very clear that he teaches the proper use of the Law, and that is to lead people to Christ. Once we enter into the Death and Resurrection of Christ, the Law has nothing more to do with us and we have nothing more to do with the Law:

4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code. (from Rom. 7)

19 “For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!” (from Gal. 2)

23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise. (from Gal. 3)​

We are not saved by the law, but with today's church saying that they will have nothing more to do with God's Holy guidance for living, you are bringing on death to many souls. For God cannot live with the sin that you will not let your mind understand. You read that the curtain to the arc has been split, and you are Abraham's offspring, and you deny it in the same breath. You do this because we are told we do not need to do the rituals that Jews did and scripture tells us this. You say that means that God changed his very being, the God took away all guidance for the human race.

That is what we are told over and over on CC. Don't listen to the Lord's guidance, don't work for the Lord. At least there is people who say to live guided by the Holy Spirit, but while they say that they teach not to listen to any scripture about how to live. It is preaching death.


​

 

[mailmandan]

Also, concerning the Faith vs. Works issue (I want to say):

James and Paul go together. Like two sides of the same coin, they don't conflict with each other; they compliment each other. Both teach us something vital. Paul looks at what goes on internally; James talks about the external results. Paul says, "We're saved by faith." James says, "This is what saving faith looks like."

In other words, works (all by their lonesome) is not what is saving you but it is the proof that Christ is living in you who does the actual saving. For he that has the Son has life and He that does not have the Son does not have life (1 John 5:12).

In addition, check out this short video, too.

[video=youtube;ThNDxfvb6EQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThNDxfvb6EQ[/video]

Amen! Man is saved through faith and not by works, yet genuine faith is substantiated and confirmed by good works. Here is an e-Devotion entitled "Faith that Works" that harmonizes the writings of Paul with the writings of James.

Faith that Works

Romans 3:28 - For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

Romans 4:5 - But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness.

Romans 5:1 - Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

James 2:14 - What use is it, my brethren, if a man says he has faith, but he has no works? Can that faith save him?

James 2:17 - Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

James 2:24 - You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone.

James 2:26 - For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

In all of Scripture there are probably no two authors who appear to contradict each other more than James and Paul. In reference to the crucial doctrine of salvation, one author seems to be saying that there is nothing a person can do to merit salvation, while the other author seems to be saying that a person's good deeds do play a part in salvation. This is a significant difference! The fact that Paul says that justification is by faith alone, without works, and James says that justification is by faith with works, certainly seems to be an unresolvable conflict in doctrine.

This apparent contradiction was significant enough for the great reformer, Martin Luther, to give the book of James a lower status in the canon of Scripture! Some scholars believe that Luther's position on James has been overstated, but he did refer to the Epistle of James as "a right strawy Epistle."

But how can this be? Both Paul and James were inspired writers. God is the ultimate Author of both Romans and James, and God cannot lie. Scripture must interpret Scripture! Are we to suppose that James and Paul are now in heaven reconciling their differences in theology?! Or is there a way to harmonize the writings of Paul and James, because, as the Word of God, these writings cannot contradict each other?

What Paul and James Don't Say
As a first step in harmonizing these Scriptures, we should observe what both of these inspired writers do not say, as compared to exactly what they do say! Notice that James does not say that good works can save a person, nor does he say that justification results from some kind of mixture of faith and works--like 50% faith and 50% works. What he does say is that faith without works is dead! And he does indicate that good works are definitely associated with saving faith. Notice that Paul does not say that any kind of faith saves a person, nor does he say that saving faith doesn't result in good works! What he does say is that a person is justified by faith and not by works. And he does indicate that works are not the basis of salvation. So already we see that the writings of James and Paul are not necessarily on a collision course. Although they at first appear to be completely contradictory, they are really not opposite statements at all, nor are they in logical contradiction to each other. In order to clearly understand the teachings of James and Paul, we need to examine what they say more closely.

Perspective is Important
Question: What looks like a square and a triangle at the same time?
Quick wrong answer: Nothing, because such a thing is impossible!
Thoughtful correct answer: A pyramid! Viewed from the side--from ground level--it looks like a triangle. Viewed from above--from the air--it looks like a square.

The illustration above helps us to better understand the statements of Paul and James. When James and Paul write about saving faith, they're not contradicting each other--they are just looking at faith from different perspectives! Paul is looking a faith from above--from the divine perspective. God knows the quality of a person's faith without having to see the results. Before God, the quality of a person's faith is not determined by, nor is it dependent upon, good works.

James, on the other hand, is looking at faith from the ground level--from the human perspective. We cannot see the heart, as God can, but we can see the results in the life of a person who claims to have faith. True faith will prove its profession by good works.In other words, the perspective from which saving faith is viewed can determine how faith is defined. It may appear on the surface that the two definitions of faith contradict each other. But if, from God's perspective, the faith that saves is a faith apart from works, but, from man's perspective, that faith results in good works which people can see, then there is bound to be a "perspective difference" in the description of saving faith.

Abraham as an Example
The fact that both James and Paul used Abraham as an example certainly is significant and important to our harmonization of these texts. Notice that, as a part of their argument, both authors quote Genesis 15:6, "Abram believed the Lord, and He credited it to him as righteousness." It is critical to the harmonization to see how each author uses this Scripture in his argument. Paul's point is that Abraham was declared righteous by God even before he was circumcised (a work of obedience) and long before the Law was given. In other words, there's nothing Abraham did to earn his salvation. He just believed God! "For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about; but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? 'And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness'" (Romans 4:2-3).

James' point, on the other hand, is that Abraham's faith was perfected, or proved, by his works. "Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, 'And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness,' and he was called the friend of God." (James 2:21-23). But notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's works of faith resulted in God's declaration of Abraham's righteousness. No! The declaration was made in Genesis 15:6, about 30 years before his work of faith of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22.

That's why James says precisely that "the Scripture was fulfilled which says 'Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness'" (2:24). So we see that there really is no contradiction between James and Paul. The works of Abraham were essential, not because they had some kind of intrinsic merit to justify him, but because they proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. The point is clear in the minds of both Paul and James that Abraham was justified in God's sight long before any works of righteousness were performed.

More from Paul
When considering what Paul has to say about the relationship between faith and works, it is important to bear in mind what he wrote in his other epistles. For example, in Galatians 5:6 he wrote, "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love." "Faith working through love" sounds a lot like James, doesn't it? No way was Paul opposed to good works! It's just that they must be seen for what are: evidence of saving faith, not the essence of saving faith.

When we rightly quote the well-known verses of Ephesians 2:8-9 as a proof text against the false teaching of salvation by works, let's not forget that Paul also wrote the very next verse as well. "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." (Ephesians 2:10).

Clearly Paul is not "against" good works! The purpose of his treatise to the Romans was to annihilate any idea that a person might be justified on the basis of meritorious works. Mankind can do absolutely nothing in order to merit favor with God. We are saved on the "by grace through faith" basis alone.

More from James
Does the following verse about the sovereign will of God sound like James or Paul? "In the exercise of His will He brought us forth by the word of truth, so that we might be, as it were, the first fruits among His creatures." Now that certainly sounds like the apostle Paul in the book of Romans. Right? Wrong! It comes from the pen of James in James 1:18. In view of such a verse we can see that James' emphasis on the importance of works is certainly not in the sense of earning salvation.

When thinking through what James says about the relationship between faith and works, there is another important point to keep in mind. The works that James presents as examples from the lives of Abraham (2:21-23) and Rahab (2:25) are anything but good works! Apart from faith, these works were attempted homicide (Abraham) and treason (Rahab)! These works are a far cry from what we normally consider good works, such as helping the homeless and promoting peace. These "works of faith" of Abraham and Rahab were not meritorious good works because, apart from faith, they would certainly not qualify as good works at all!

So it is obvious that James is not arguing that the works of Abraham and Rahab added to their faith. His point is that the works of Abraham and Rahab proved that their faith was genuine--the works were a result of their already existing faith. Although Abraham and Rahab were quite different in reference to the social and religious spectrums, they were both willing to give up what was closest to them--family and country, respectively--as evidence of their saving faith in Christ.

It is also very important to notice how James begins his discussion of faith and works. "What use is it, my brethren, if a man says he has faith, but he has no works? Can that faith save him?" (James 2:14). In other words, anyone can say they have faith, but such a profession may be words only. Can that kind of faith save a person? The answer is obviously a resounding, "No"! A faith that gives mere intellectual assent only is no better than the belief of demons, as James goes on to say in 2:19! Certainly that kind of faith cannot save a person. That kind of faith is a counterfeit faith.

Well then, what kind of faith can save a person? James answers that question. It is a faith that shows itself to be genuine by works of obedience. The works themselves do not participate in the process of justification, but they are evidence of the kind of faith which is necessary for justification. The heroes of faith of Hebrews 11 did not just say that they had faith, and they did not just have a belief about God in their heads. No! Their faith involved their hearts as well as their heads, and evidenced itself by "works of faith." Those works did not save them, but they gave solid evidence of their true and saving faith.

An Approach for Evangelism
The different approaches taken by Paul and James to the faith/works question is a good way to evangelize and counsel different individuals today. For those individuals who think that they must earn their way to heaven or that they are not good enough for heaven, we could share the truth of Romans: Salvation is apart from works! If on the other hand, certain "loose-living" individuals think that they're on their way to heaven because they "went forward" or "raised their hand" or "signed a card" at an evangelistic crusade when they were young, we should share the truth of James with them. Faith which does not manifest itself with an obedient lifestyle should be questioned, because faith apart from works is not a genuine faith--it is a dead faith.

So Paul and James do not contradict each other. Their collision course is only apparent after all! As inspired writers their statements must be in harmony, and we've seen that they do harmonize. Justification is not by works--it is by faith alone! But justification is not by faith which is alone. Good works accompany faith not as the path to salvation, but as the proof of salvation. Saving faith is not a dead, cerebral, inactive "faith." True saving faith is a faith that results in a life of obedient works! Saving faith is a faith that works.

 

[Jason0047]

Amen! Man is saved through faith and not by works, yet genuine faith is substantiated and confirmed by good works. Here is an e-Devotion entitled "Faith that Works" that harmonizes the writings of Paul with the writings of James.

Faith that Works

Romans 3:28 - For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

Romans 4:5 - But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness.

Romans 5:1 - Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

James 2:14 - What use is it, my brethren, if a man says he has faith, but he has no works? Can that faith save him?

James 2:17 - Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

James 2:24 - You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone.

James 2:26 - For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

In all of Scripture there are probably no two authors who appear to contradict each other more than James and Paul. In reference to the crucial doctrine of salvation, one author seems to be saying that there is nothing a person can do to merit salvation, while the other author seems to be saying that a person's good deeds do play a part in salvation. This is a significant difference! The fact that Paul says that justification is by faith alone, without works, and James says that justification is by faith with works, certainly seems to be an unresolvable conflict in doctrine.

This apparent contradiction was significant enough for the great reformer, Martin Luther, to give the book of James a lower status in the canon of Scripture! Some scholars believe that Luther's position on James has been overstated, but he did refer to the Epistle of James as "a right strawy Epistle."

But how can this be? Both Paul and James were inspired writers. God is the ultimate Author of both Romans and James, and God cannot lie. Scripture must interpret Scripture! Are we to suppose that James and Paul are now in heaven reconciling their differences in theology?! Or is there a way to harmonize the writings of Paul and James, because, as the Word of God, these writings cannot contradict each other?

What Paul and James Don't Say
As a first step in harmonizing these Scriptures, we should observe what both of these inspired writers do not say, as compared to exactly what they do say! Notice that James does not say that good works can save a person, nor does he say that justification results from some kind of mixture of faith and works--like 50% faith and 50% works. What he does say is that faith without works is dead! And he does indicate that good works are definitely associated with saving faith. Notice that Paul does not say that any kind of faith saves a person, nor does he say that saving faith doesn't result in good works! What he does say is that a person is justified by faith and not by works. And he does indicate that works are not the basis of salvation. So already we see that the writings of James and Paul are not necessarily on a collision course. Although they at first appear to be completely contradictory, they are really not opposite statements at all, nor are they in logical contradiction to each other. In order to clearly understand the teachings of James and Paul, we need to examine what they say more closely.

Perspective is Important
Question: What looks like a square and a triangle at the same time?
Quick wrong answer: Nothing, because such a thing is impossible!
Thoughtful correct answer: A pyramid! Viewed from the side--from ground level--it looks like a triangle. Viewed from above--from the air--it looks like a square.

The illustration above helps us to better understand the statements of Paul and James. When James and Paul write about saving faith, they're not contradicting each other--they are just looking at faith from different perspectives! Paul is looking a faith from above--from the divine perspective. God knows the quality of a person's faith without having to see the results. Before God, the quality of a person's faith is not determined by, nor is it dependent upon, good works.

James, on the other hand, is looking at faith from the ground level--from the human perspective. We cannot see the heart, as God can, but we can see the results in the life of a person who claims to have faith. True faith will prove its profession by good works.In other words, the perspective from which saving faith is viewed can determine how faith is defined. It may appear on the surface that the two definitions of faith contradict each other. But if, from God's perspective, the faith that saves is a faith apart from works, but, from man's perspective, that faith results in good works which people can see, then there is bound to be a "perspective difference" in the description of saving faith.

Abraham as an Example
The fact that both James and Paul used Abraham as an example certainly is significant and important to our harmonization of these texts. Notice that, as a part of their argument, both authors quote Genesis 15:6, "Abram believed the Lord, and He credited it to him as righteousness." It is critical to the harmonization to see how each author uses this Scripture in his argument. Paul's point is that Abraham was declared righteous by God even before he was circumcised (a work of obedience) and long before the Law was given. In other words, there's nothing Abraham did to earn his salvation. He just believed God! "For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about; but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? 'And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness'" (Romans 4:2-3).

James' point, on the other hand, is that Abraham's faith was perfected, or proved, by his works. "Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, 'And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness,' and he was called the friend of God." (James 2:21-23). But notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's works of faith resulted in God's declaration of Abraham's righteousness. No! The declaration was made in Genesis 15:6, about 30 years before his work of faith of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22.

That's why James says precisely that "the Scripture was fulfilled which says 'Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness'" (2:24). So we see that there really is no contradiction between James and Paul. The works of Abraham were essential, not because they had some kind of intrinsic merit to justify him, but because they proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. The point is clear in the minds of both Paul and James that Abraham was justified in God's sight long before any works of righteousness were performed.

More from Paul
When considering what Paul has to say about the relationship between faith and works, it is important to bear in mind what he wrote in his other epistles. For example, in Galatians 5:6 he wrote, "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love." "Faith working through love" sounds a lot like James, doesn't it? No way was Paul opposed to good works! It's just that they must be seen for what are: evidence of saving faith, not the essence of saving faith.

When we rightly quote the well-known verses of Ephesians 2:8-9 as a proof text against the false teaching of salvation by works, let's not forget that Paul also wrote the very next verse as well. "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." (Ephesians 2:10).

Clearly Paul is not "against" good works! The purpose of his treatise to the Romans was to annihilate any idea that a person might be justified on the basis of meritorious works. Mankind can do absolutely nothing in order to merit favor with God. We are saved on the "by grace through faith" basis alone.

More from James
Does the following verse about the sovereign will of God sound like James or Paul? "In the exercise of His will He brought us forth by the word of truth, so that we might be, as it were, the first fruits among His creatures." Now that certainly sounds like the apostle Paul in the book of Romans. Right? Wrong! It comes from the pen of James in James 1:18. In view of such a verse we can see that James' emphasis on the importance of works is certainly not in the sense of earning salvation.

When thinking through what James says about the relationship between faith and works, there is another important point to keep in mind. The works that James presents as examples from the lives of Abraham (2:21-23) and Rahab (2:25) are anything but good works! Apart from faith, these works were attempted homicide (Abraham) and treason (Rahab)! These works are a far cry from what we normally consider good works, such as helping the homeless and promoting peace. These "works of faith" of Abraham and Rahab were not meritorious good works because, apart from faith, they would certainly not qualify as good works at all!

So it is obvious that James is not arguing that the works of Abraham and Rahab added to their faith. His point is that the works of Abraham and Rahab proved that their faith was genuine--the works were a result of their already existing faith. Although Abraham and Rahab were quite different in reference to the social and religious spectrums, they were both willing to give up what was closest to them--family and country, respectively--as evidence of their saving faith in Christ.

It is also very important to notice how James begins his discussion of faith and works. "What use is it, my brethren, if a man says he has faith, but he has no works? Can that faith save him?" (James 2:14). In other words, anyone can say they have faith, but such a profession may be words only. Can that kind of faith save a person? The answer is obviously a resounding, "No"! A faith that gives mere intellectual assent only is no better than the belief of demons, as James goes on to say in 2:19! Certainly that kind of faith cannot save a person. That kind of faith is a counterfeit faith.

Well then, what kind of faith can save a person? James answers that question. It is a faith that shows itself to be genuine by works of obedience. The works themselves do not participate in the process of justification, but they are evidence of the kind of faith which is necessary for justification. The heroes of faith of Hebrews 11 did not just say that they had faith, and they did not just have a belief about God in their heads. No! Their faith involved their hearts as well as their heads, and evidenced itself by "works of faith." Those works did not save them, but they gave solid evidence of their true and saving faith.

An Approach for Evangelism
The different approaches taken by Paul and James to the faith/works question is a good way to evangelize and counsel different individuals today. For those individuals who think that they must earn their way to heaven or that they are not good enough for heaven, we could share the truth of Romans: Salvation is apart from works! If on the other hand, certain "loose-living" individuals think that they're on their way to heaven because they "went forward" or "raised their hand" or "signed a card" at an evangelistic crusade when they were young, we should share the truth of James with them. Faith which does not manifest itself with an obedient lifestyle should be questioned, because faith apart from works is not a genuine faith--it is a dead faith.

So Paul and James do not contradict each other. Their collision course is only apparent after all! As inspired writers their statements must be in harmony, and we've seen that they do harmonize. Justification is not by works--it is by faith alone! But justification is not by faith which is alone. Good works accompany faith not as the path to salvation, but as the proof of salvation. Saving faith is not a dead, cerebral, inactive "faith." True saving faith is a faith that results in a life of obedient works! Saving faith is a faith that works.

Well said, my brother. Thank you so much. I agree. It is so nice to see another believer understand this. Most folks fall into two wrong extremes on this topic. Some think they can abide in unrepentant sin and still be saved (Which is a counterfeit faith) (Antinomianism, i.e. that the moral law does not apply to the believer); And others wrongfully think that what they do is actually saving them (When in reality it is Jesus Christ that saves) (When in reality it is the believer allowing God to do the "good work" within them) (For works are just evidence or proof that God is living within a person) (God (Christ) is the actual source of salvation).

 

[4enlightment]

What makes a sinner is someone that loves the life of sin; like if someone that goes to war and fight for their country. A sinner is the one whom loves killing the enemy and keep seeking for more to kill; and they love the praises they get afterward. But the righteous doesn't like the deed, but eventhough they sworn to defend their country, they'll show sign of remorse of their deeds and pray that it will come to an end. We cannot heal ourselves, but only God can, and that if it is in our hearts to want what is right. We will fall down into temptations, but what makes a children of God is that they struggle to get up from it.

Matthew 13:15 For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’

Matthew 5:6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.

Proverbs 24:16 for though the righteous fall seven times, they rise again,
but the wicked stumble when calamity strikes.

Matthew 18:22 Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.

 

[JGIG]

If all the Law will never change (which I agree with, btw, jots and tittles, ya know), then why aren't you offering sacrifices and going to Jerusalem for the appointed times?

How does what you're doing (keeping only the snippets of the Law that are convenient for you) line up with what you wrote above? If sinning is transgressing the Law and you know that you're doing it, isn't that willful (not ignorant) sin?

Uh oh.

-JGIG

But JGIG, the law didn't change.

We have a high priest who offered sacrifice for sin, who ministers daily in the temple of God as our representative, which is *exactly* what the law prescribed; a payment in blood for sin and a high priest. And as far as going to Jerusalem for the appointed Times; the law enumerates that all able-bodied *men* are to venture to Jerusalem three times a year for the feasts, not women...and that's only if one can make it there. Actually, to be more specific; the law says to venture to the place where "God places his name", which is the Temple. There's no longer a temple (and never will be again imho).

Not all of God's law was meant for *every single person* who was a citizen of Israel. Some were for women...some were for men...some where exclusively for Levites...some where for if/when you're in the land...some where for you regardless of where you are (like The Commandments).

Respectfully, this misunderstanding is what Peter was talking about when he said (2 Peter 3:16)

We must clearly understand the Hebrew scriptures (i.e. today's 1st 5 books of the bible), every jot and tittle to the minutest detail, to make accurate heads or tails of all of what Paul says...and also what Christ says.

You say the Law didn't change and then go on to detail how you say it DID change! You say that Jesus ministering in the Temple of God is the same as what was happening in the Law - NO - not by any means:

1 For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near.

2 Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins? 3 But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
​

5 Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said,
“Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired,
but a body have you prepared for me;
6 in burnt offerings and sin offerings
you have taken no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come to do your will, O God,
as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.’”

8 When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), 9 then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second. 10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. 14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified. (from Heb. 10)


​

For the record, I'm with you on that the Law did not change - not one jot or tittle has passed for those who are not in Christ. The Law is God's perfect standard for righteousness, designed to bring mankind to the end of themselves and to the Grace and Mercy that is offered in Christ Who was righteous on our behalf and gives His Righteousness to us as a gift when we enter into what He's already done by faith (Rom. 5, 2 Cor. 5, Eph. 1,2, Gal. 2,3). When we enter into Christ, we enter into His Death and Resurrection and die to the Law, being severed from it IN ORDER that we may bear fruit unto God (Rom. 7:4-6, Gal. 2:19-21). Note that to bear fruit unto God we must be joined to Christ, Who is the Seed Who gives life (Gal. 3) and dead to the Law, which is impotent and does not bear fruit unto God.

And I do understand that not all of the Law applies to everyone - there are laws for men, women, farmers, priests, merchants, etc. The point about going to Jerusalem for the Appointed times was for the broader audience, not just for RedTent.

You're a male - what say you? Are you going to Jerusalem for the appointed times? You're not in exile and modern travel availability certainly allows for the carrying out of such commands. So what if there is not a Temple or priesthood? You're required to bring your sacrifices to Jerusalem! Won't you purpose to do all of the Law that you can? Don't you want to be pleasing to God to show Him how much you love Him?

You say we must clearly understand the Torah; I agree. You must have skipped over these parts in Torah and the prophets:

Exodus 23:13
13 “Be careful to do everything I have said to you."

Deuteronomy 5:28-33
28 The Lord heard you when you spoke to me and the Lord said to me, “I have heard what this people said to you. Everything they said was good. 29 Oh, that their hearts would be inclined to fear me and keep all my commands always, so that it might go well with them and their children forever!

30 “Go, tell them to return to their tents. 31 But you stay here with me so that I may give you all the commands, decrees and laws you are to teach them to follow in the land I am giving them to possess.”

32 So be careful to do what the Lord your God has commanded you; do not turn aside to the right or to the left. 33 Walk in all the way that the Lord your God has commanded you, so that you may live and prosper and prolong your days in the land that you will possess.

Deuteronomy 8:1
Be careful to follow every command I am giving you today, so that you may live and increase and may enter and possess the land that the Lord promised on oath to your forefathers.

Deuteronomy 12:27-28
27 Present your burnt offerings on the altar of the Lord your God, both the meat and the blood. The blood of your sacrifices must be poured beside the altar of the Lord your God, but you may eat the meat. 28 Be careful to obey all these regulations I am giving you, so that it may always go well with you and your children after you, because you will be doing what is good and right in the eyes of the Lord your God.

Jeremiah 7:21-26
21 “‘This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Go ahead, add your burnt offerings to your other sacrifices and eat the meat yourselves! 22 For when I brought your forefathers out of Egypt and spoke to them, I did not just give them commands about burnt offerings and sacrifices, 23 but I gave them this command: Obey me, and I will be your God and you will be my people. Walk in all the ways I command you, that it may go well with you. 24 But they did not listen or pay attention; instead, they followed the stubborn inclinations of their evil hearts. They went backward and not forward. 25 From the time your forefathers left Egypt until now, day after day, again and again I sent you my servants the prophets. 26 But they did not listen to me or pay attention. They were stiff-necked and did more evil than their forefathers.’

Joshua 1:6-9
6 “Be strong and courageous, because you will lead these people to inherit the land I swore to their forefathers to give them. 7 Be strong and very courageous. Be careful to obey all the law my servant Moses gave you; do not turn from it to the right or to the left, that you may be successful wherever you go. 8 Do not let this Book of the Law depart from your mouth; meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do everything written in it. Then you will be prosperous and successful. 9 Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be terrified; do not be discouraged, for the Lord your God will be with you wherever you go.”
​

God's standard for Law keeping is absolute perfection: Keep it 100%, 100% of the time to get the blessings; or not, and curses are coming your way. That is the truth of the Law as it is written. Those who advocate Torah 'pursuance' quote Matt. 5:17-19, saying that not one jot or tittle shall pass, yet when it comes to where the rubber meets the road and they have to actually start doing what the Law says, they find all kinds of loopholes and simply toss the jots and tittles which are inconvenient or distasteful.

Back to the intent of the OP: Jesus preached the Law to those under the Law, fulfilled the Law's requirements on our behalf, went to the Cross to swallow up the wrath for our sins, and conquered the Death penalty with His Resurrection. Those who enter into His Work by faith no longer have ANY relationship with the Law. Those who are in Christ are sealed with His Holy Spirit and led by Him. The Scriptures are clear: If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law (Gal. 5:18).

The revelation given to Paul BY CHRIST tells us that is we are led by the Spirit we are not under the Law. He also tells us this:

4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. 5 For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness. (from Gal. 5)​

-JGIG