Christ's Gospel? Paul's Gospel?

[EarnestQ]

As I said earlier, this is only one gospel unto salvation during the Church Age (after Christ's death leading up to the rapture) that leads the lost unto eternal salvation. 1 Cor. 15:3-4.

There are other gospel messages for different dispensations. Not all these messages as I see them, lead to eternal salvation, but is good news for the intended audience.

I don't consider myself as much a dispensationalist, but more a believer who rightly divides the word of truth.

"Rightly dividing the Word of God" is Dispensational code for applying some Bible verses to Israel and some verses to the church. This is further emphasized by inventing "dispensations" so verses contradicting the pre-trib rapture can be applied to other "dispensations" rather than the alleged "church age".

In making such divisions as dispensations (as defined by Dispensationalists) one needs to come up with different "gospels" for each dispensation. These different gospels are contrary to the clear teaching of the New Testament, as I quoted above.

I used to be a dispensationalist. I grew out of it as I tried to understand what the Bible, not my teaching, said about the End Times. As I dropped my dispensational teaching the New Testament became a lot more clear and easier to read, and I developed a deeper relationship with Christ because I wasn't as confused about what the New Testament was teaching.

FWIW

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree! The old covenant was still in force among the Jews.

The teachings of Jesus on earth are eternal, but obedience of some of them are not required for salvation. Jesus told the disciples to sell their properties and give alms and in Acts we see them obeying this commandment. Paul, however, never said anything about selling properties and giving alms.

jesus tells us to obey our rulers. that is not just the law. that is for all time.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This multiple gospel claim presumes a distinction between the Jewish and Gentile believers. This is the most important tenant (according to Dispensational scholars) of Dispensationalism. John Darby created this distinction (along with the need for multiple gospels), and Dispensationalism in general, to support his belief in the Pre-trib rapture.

He knew that Matt 24 clearly contradicted the Pre-trib rapture so he invented this separation between the Jews and the church so Matt 24 would not contradict his belief. If he could claim that Matt 24 was for only for the Jews (and invent multiple gospels to go with it), then he could still preach the Pre-trib rapture.

As best as I can tell from investigating it some years ago, the pre-trib rapture belief came out of the Albury Prophesy Conferences in England (at the Albury estate near London) in the late 1820's. They published their proceedings in annual volumes called, "Dialogs on Prophesy". And in them, one can clearly find most of the beginnings of Dispensationalism. (I have copies of many pages from these volumes that clearly prove it.)

Darby got the pre-trib rapture (and other Dispensational concepts) from attendees of these conferences a few years later at the Powerscourt Prophesy Conferences (there is clear documentation about all of this) and for the rest of his life developed Dispensationalism to support it.

The reason Dispensationalists are so adamant about proclaiming the two peoples of God (and the different gospels that go with it) is because without it, there is no justification for the pre-trib rapture.

The pre-trib rapture existed before Dispensationalism and Dispensationalism was specifically created by John Darby to justify a pre-trib rapture.



Regarding there being more than one gospel, Paul makes it absolutely clear what he thinks about multiple gospels.

Gal 1

8. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
​

9. As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!


​

I think it is a rather serious issue for Dispensationalists to proclaim more that one gospel just so they can have their pre-trib rapture.

With respect,

Earnest

please study more. This is not true, Dispensationalism separates times or epochs, not people. One small group of people (like John here) says there are different gospels in different ages.. Most do not.. do not try to put us all under one umbrella.

 

[Incognito]

Christ is Spirit? The gospel is Spirit? Can you explain using Scripture please...thanks.

In I Corinthians Chapter 12 Paul is explaining the "OPERATION OF THE SPIRIT" as pertaining to "Spiritual gifts" received of "Every man" who is a "member of the body of Christ" (v7) by being "baptized into one Spirit" (v13) and are "MANY" (v12) yet "one body" and stated "SO ALSO IS CHRIST" who is "MANY" OPERATIONS [Which kills "The Trinity"] yet "one and the SELFSAME SPIRIT" (v11)!

Therefore "The Gospel of Christ" is "The Gospel of SPIRIT" because it's THE SPIRIT (aka Holy Spirit) that OPERATES and "not we ourselves" (Ephesians 2:8-9)!

 

[John146]

"Rightly dividing the Word of God" is Dispensational code for applying some Bible verses to Israel and some verses to the church. This is further emphasized by inventing "dispensations" so verses contradicting the pre-trib rapture can be applied to other "dispensations" rather than the alleged "church age".

In making such divisions as dispensations (as defined by Dispensationalists) one needs to come up with different "gospels" for each dispensation. These different gospels are contrary to the clear teaching of the New Testament, as I quoted above.

I used to be a dispensationalist. I grew out of it as I tried to understand what the Bible, not my teaching, said about the End Times. As I dropped my dispensational teaching the New Testament became a lot more clear and easier to read, and I developed a deeper relationship with Christ because I wasn't as confused about what the New Testament was teaching.

FWIW

The gospel of grace which was given to Paul:

1 Corinthians 15
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

This gospel is specific and must include Christ's death, burial and resurrection of sins. Can you show me where the Jesus and His disciples specifically preached this gospel? Words are important. Words make up the gospel of grace.

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"Rightly dividing the Word of God" is Dispensational code for applying some Bible verses to Israel and some verses to the church. This is further emphasized by inventing "dispensations" so verses contradicting the pre-trib rapture can be applied to other "dispensations" rather than the alleged "church age".

In making such divisions as dispensations (as defined by Dispensationalists) one needs to come up with different "gospels" for each dispensation. These different gospels are contrary to the clear teaching of the New Testament, as I quoted above.

I used to be a dispensationalist. I grew out of it as I tried to understand what the Bible, not my teaching, said about the End Times. As I dropped my dispensational teaching the New Testament became a lot more clear and easier to read, and I developed a deeper relationship with Christ because I wasn't as confused about what the New Testament was teaching.

FWIW

again, please stop. Your attacking a group of people. And not all of those people believe what your insisting they believe.

If you want to argue against John, argue against his argument, I have been a dispensationalist all my life, and I reject the form of dispensational teaching John teaches.

 

[John146]

In I Corinthians Chapter 12 Paul is explaining the "OPERATION OF THE SPIRIT" as pertaining to "Spiritual gifts" received of "Every man" who is a "member of the body of Christ" (v7) by being "baptized into one Spirit" (v13) and are "MANY" (v12) yet "one body" and stated "SO ALSO IS CHRIST" who is "MANY" OPERATIONS [Which kills "The Trinity"] yet "one and the SELFSAME SPIRIT" (v11)!

Therefore "The Gospel of Christ" is "The Gospel of SPIRIT" because it's THE SPIRIT (aka Holy Spirit) that OPERATES and "not we ourselves" (Ephesians 2:8-9)!

Therefore, therefore, therefore, is making assumptions. The gospel of Jesus Christ is preaching the death, burial and resurrection for sins. When one believes upon this gospel they are saved and indwelled with the Holy Spirit.

 

[kaylagrl]

Christs gospel,Pauls gospel,same gospel!

 

[EarnestQ]

The gospel of grace which was given to Paul:

1 Corinthians 15
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

This gospel is specific and must include Christ's death, burial and resurrection of sins. Can you show me where the Jesus and His disciples specifically preached this gospel? Words are important. Words make up the gospel of grace.

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Are you saying that the gospel Jesus preached is different from the gospel Paul preached? I have been under the impression that they are the same.

I don't understand what you are asking of me.

 

[Incognito]

Therefore, therefore, therefore, is making assumptions. The gospel of Jesus Christ is preaching the death, burial and resurrection for sins. When one believes upon this gospel they are saved and indwelled with the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit doesn't "indwell" anyone until they receive "CONFORMATION" (Mark 16:16-20) that HE DOES "INDWELL!" "The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of GOD" (Roman 8:16)!

I Corinthians 1:18 says "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." Do you know what "the POWER of GOD" is? JESUS defined "POWER" in Acts 1:8 when HE SAID "But ye shall receive POWER after that THE HOLY GHOST IS COME UPON YOU..."

THEN and ONLY THEN do we become "children of God" who are "members of the body of Christ" that have been "baptized into that one Spirit" (I Corinthians 12:13) and have been given "Spiritual gifts" to "EVERY MAN" (I Corinthians 12:7-10; 13) with "CONFORMATION" (Mark 16:16-20)!

Read I Corinthians 12:11-12 which speaks of the "OPERATION OF THE SPIRIT" and notice verse 12 says "SO ALSO IS CHRIST" [SPIRIT] and is the "One" who "OPERATES" (Philippians 2:13)!

Blessings

 

[John146]

Are you saying that the gospel Jesus preached is different from the gospel Paul preached? I have been under the impression that they are the same.

I don't understand what you are asking of me.

The gospel of the kingdom is to the nation of Israel concerning their promised kingdom with the rightful promised King ruling on David's throne. It is a literal, physical, visible kingdom. The kingdom was at hand during the ministry of Jesus and could have been ushered in had the nation of Israel accepted Jesus as the fulfillment of the prophecies. Little did they know that this King would have to die for their sins before their kingdom could be realized.

After the final rejection in Acts, the gospel of grace alone would be preached through the Apostle Paul's ministry. This good news message was for all people including the Gentiles. The message was specifically how Christ died for sins, was buried and rose again the third day.

The gospel of the kingdom will be preached again to the Jews during the tribulation preparing them for their coming King and His Millennial reign.

 

[EarnestQ]

again, please stop. Your attacking a group of people. And not all of those people believe what your insisting they believe.

If you want to argue against John, argue against his argument, I have been a dispensationalist all my life, and I reject the form of dispensational teaching John teaches.

You are welcome to create your own version of Dispensationalism. Not knowing how and why you define it differently than the formal scholars of Dispensationalism, I obviously cannot comment on what you believe.

All I can do is comment on the standard definition of Dispensationalism (as defined by its own scholars) and its history.

I am convinced that there is nothing in the Bible that suggests the rigid dispensations that Dispensationalists proclaim.

It is my inclination to believe that anyone who uses the dispensational divisions that Dispensationalists propose probably got it from Dispensationalists whether they are aware of it or not. Because, I am convinced, there is nothing in the Bible that supports such rigid distinctions, therefore the idea must come from somewhere else.

But, perhaps I am wrong. You are welcome to explain to me, if you are so inclined, why you hold to the dispensational precepts that you do.

Thank you.

 

[John146]

The Holy Spirit doesn't "indwell" anyone until they receive "CONFORMATION" (Mark 16:16-20) that HE DOES "INDWELL!" "The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of GOD" (Roman 8:16)!

I Corinthians 1:18 says "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." Do you know what "the POWER of GOD" is? JESUS defined "POWER" in Acts 1:8 when HE SAID "But ye shall receive POWER after that THE HOLY GHOST IS COME UPON YOU..."

THEN and ONLY THEN do we become "children of God" who are "members of the body of Christ" that have been "baptized into that one Spirit" (I Corinthians 12:13) and have been given "Spiritual gifts" to "EVERY MAN" (I Corinthians 12:7-10; 13) with "CONFORMATION" (Mark 16:16-20)!

Read I Corinthians 12:11-12 which speaks of the "OPERATION OF THE SPIRIT" and notice verse 12 says "SO ALSO IS CHRIST" [SPIRIT] and is the "One" who "OPERATES" (Philippians 2:13)!

Blessings

Ephesians 1
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

1. Hear the gospel message
2. Trust/believe the gospel message
3. Sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise

 

[John146]

Are you saying that the gospel Jesus preached is different from the gospel Paul preached? I have been under the impression that they are the same.

I don't understand what you are asking of me.

Christ and His disciples preached the gospel of the kingdom. Can you show in Scripture that the gospel of the kingdom was the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for sins?

The disciples had no understanding of Jesus' death, burial and resurrection for sins before the resurrection. That's our gospel unto salvation is it not?

 

[EarnestQ]

The gospel of the kingdom is to the nation of Israel concerning their promised kingdom with the rightful promised King ruling on David's throne. It is a literal, physical, visible kingdom. The kingdom was at hand during the ministry of Jesus and could have been ushered in had the nation of Israel accepted Jesus as the fulfillment of the prophecies. Little did they know that this King would have to die for their sins before their kingdom could be realized.

After the final rejection in Acts, the gospel of grace alone would be preached through the Apostle Paul's ministry. This good news message was for all people including the Gentiles. The message was specifically how Christ died for sins, was buried and rose again the third day.

The gospel of the kingdom will be preached again to the Jews during the tribulation preparing them for their coming King and His Millennial reign.

I disagree with you. I am convinced that the gospel that Paul and Jesus preached is the same gospel of faith that saved Abraham and the Israelites before Christ's death, burial, and resurrection. (I am firmly convinced that this is the gospel Paul preached.)

It appears to me that the distinctions you are making come from Dispensational theology, which I now reject, because it teaches multiple gospels as you assert.

But you are free to believe as you wish, and I have many Christian friends who would agree with you.

 

[EarnestQ]

Christ and His disciples preached the gospel of the kingdom. Can you show in Scripture that the gospel of the kingdom was the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for sins?

The disciples had no understanding of Jesus' death, burial and resurrection for sins before the resurrection. That's our gospel unto salvation is it not?

I need to leave for work. Perhaps I will take this up for you at a later time.

 

[John146]

I disagree with you. I am convinced that the gospel that Paul and Jesus preached is the same gospel of faith that saved Abraham and the Israelites before Christ's death, burial, and resurrection. (I am firmly convinced that this is the gospel Paul preached.)

It appears to me that the distinctions you are making come from Dispensational theology, which I now reject, because it teaches multiple gospels as you assert.

But you are free to believe as you wish, and I have many Christian friends who would agree with you.

Why didn't the disciples understand our gospel? It was hid from them.

31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

 

[John146]

Mathew 20 ESV

Jesus Foretells His Death a Third Time

17 And as Jesus was going up to Jerusalem, he took the twelve disciples aside, and on the way he said to them, 18 “See, we are going up to Jerusalem. And the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and scribes, and they will condemn him to death 19 and deliver him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified, and he will be raised on the third day.”


Luke 9 ESV

Jesus Foretells His Death

21 And he strictly charged and commanded them to tell this to no one,22 saying, “The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.”


Mark 8 ESV

Jesus Foretells His Death and Resurrection

31 And he began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes and be killed, and after three days rise again.

Please see post 97. The disciples had no clue about this message until after the resurrection and the Lord started to open their eyes to the truth. What truth? The gospel message of His death, burial and resurrection for sins.

 

[FamousBlueRaincoat]

Christ and His disciples preached the gospel of the kingdom. Can you show in Scripture that the gospel of the kingdom was the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for sins?

The disciples had no understanding of Jesus' death, burial and resurrection for sins before the resurrection. That's our gospel unto salvation is it not?

It being hidden from them doesn't make it a different gospel. 2000 years later it was hidden from me until The Lord enabled me to see the truth. It was revealed to them at the proper time. The gospel will be revealed to Israel in due course. One gospel.


Mathew 20 ESV

Jesus Foretells His Death a Third Time

17 And as Jesus was going up to Jerusalem, he took the twelve disciples aside, and on the way he said to them, 18 “See, we are going up to Jerusalem. And the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and scribes, and they will condemn him to death 19 and deliver him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified, and he will be raised on the third day.”


Luke 9 ESV

Jesus Foretells His Death

21 And he strictly charged and commanded them to tell this to no one,22 saying, “The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.”


Mark 8 ESV

Jesus Foretells His Death and Resurrection

31 And he began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes and be killed, and after three days rise again.

 

[John146]

It being hidden from them doesn't make it a different gospel. 2000 years later it was hidden from me until The Lord enabled me to see the truth. It was revealed to them at the proper time but the gospel is the same.


Mathew 20 ESV

Jesus Foretells His Death a Third Time

17 And as Jesus was going up to Jerusalem, he took the twelve disciples aside, and on the way he said to them, 18 “See, we are going up to Jerusalem. And the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and scribes, and they will condemn him to death 19 and deliver him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified, and he will be raised on the third day.”


Luke 9 ESV

Jesus Foretells His Death

21 And he strictly charged and commanded them to tell this to no one,22 saying, “The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.”


Mark 8 ESV

Jesus Foretells His Death and Resurrection

31 And he began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes and be killed, and after three days rise again.

Are you trying to say that the disciples went around preaching the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for sins even though they were clueless about it?

In the Mark 8 account, Peter even rebukes Jesus for speaking such words:

31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.32 And he spake that saying openly. And Peter took him, and began to rebuke him.

Can you imagine Peter rebuking the Lord for the sake of our gospel?