Hell. It is in the Bible isnt it?

[JohnOne]

What is the second death? and is there a first death?, and what happens when a person dies?

The second death is a reference to the lake of fire where those who are separated from God by their sin will dwell for eternity

Lots of verse but these should help clarify

John 3:1-12 KJV There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again ( SECOND BIRTH ), he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God ( second birth SPIRITUAL ) 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again ( SECOND BIRTH ). 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. 9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

This should help you in your journey to understanding.

If there is a physical birth and a spiritual birth then what does that mean when you start reading and putting all these verses together? Scripture must be taken in context as a whole not in part. All verse need to be in agreement.

The flesh cannot be converted; it must be destroyed, made new.

Old man of Sin must be crucified

The carnal fleshly mind is enmity against God; They that are flesh can not please God.

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

1Jn_2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

1Jn_2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Galatians 5:16 KJV This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil. Our sinful flesh will never please God.

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Revelation 21:5 KJV And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Hope this helps

 

[Ahwatukee]

It's a blatant lie that dishonors our loving creator.

Hello TheStudent,

I would remind you that it is our "loving creator" who created and wrote about eternal punishment. We are not making this stuff up. What do you do when you come to the scriptures regarding eternal punishment. Has someone convinced you to spiritualize or symbolize that information? Listen to what Jesus said to his disciples and to all believers:

"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in geenna ."

The word "apollumi" translated "destroy" does not mean annihilation or extinction, but complete loss of well being, ruination and that in the lake of fire.

 

[fredoheaven]

What is the second death? and is there a first death?, and what happens when a person dies?

Here is my take on this:

What is second death? It means when the unbelieving sinners, the unsaved dead will be cast into the Lake of Fire. First, he was cast to "hell" then second to the Lake of Fire. That makes two in a row,

Is there a first death? Yes, that's plain and simple. The scriptures says "second death" so there's "first death". There could be no second without the first.

What happens when a person dies? A saved person, will be in heaven for eternity when he dies. An unsaved person will go straight in hell when he dies. Hell where there is an entrance but no exit.

Col.1:5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

Rev. 20:14-15 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Ahwatukee]

The story of the Rich Man and Lazarus that is found in Luke 16:19-31 gives us the record of a remarkable conversation that took place in Hades between the Rich Man and Abraham. Obviously, these two men could not have had this conversation at all if Sheol/Hades is only a place where dead bodies are buried. First, there could be no communication between lifeless, decaying corpses and second, Abraham’s body, which was buried in the cave of Machpelah over 1800 years earlier, had long since decayed. Also, the rich man’s body, regardless of whether it had decayed or not, would not have been buried in the burial cave of Abraham. From the context, it is obvious that these men were in the place of departed souls rather than a burial place.

Well said! And I might add that the scripture demonstrates that both men could feel, as Abraham said that Lazarus was comforted and the rich man himself said that he was in torment in flame. They could also see and speak, since we see them having a conversation. Some have tried to say that Abraham and Lazarus were in heaven and the rich man was in Hades, as though they were looking at some kind of vision of each other. But the scripture makes clear that both areas were separated by a great chasm, demonstrating that both areas were directly across from each other.

The rich man and Lazarus demonstrates that the soul/spirit is conscious and aware after the death of the body, which is why those who believe in soul-sleep try to make it into a parable and that because it kills their whole belief. This event also reveals that there is true punishment as a result of sin and that once a person dies in that state, there is no second chance. There is no coming back. When a person dies their record is sealed.

The teaching of the state of the rich man is the same as the priest and the Levite who passed around the man who was attacked by bandits and left for dead, having no faith expressed in love. The moral of the story is, let us not be found to be like the rich man, lest we suffer the same eternal fate.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I forget the committee/council's name and the guy's name but it can be found in this FANTASTIC non-biased movie.

Does Hell Exist? If So, Who Ends Up There, And Why? - Hellbound the Movie

Every reliable source website I'm looking through just says "Catholic Bishops compiled the Bible" haha. Doesn't really matter though cause their in Hell now...right? Those Catholic heretical Bible-compiling heathens...

Bushido8000,

Why are you concerned with what Roman Catholicism says, when we have the word of God which testifies of eternal punishment in the lake of fire. We have the codex sinaiticus, which was not written by nor altered by Rome.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Also, I'd like to just say that I'm not opposed to the idea of a torturous, tormenting Hell. I'm just opposed to people who say that it's heresy not to believe in anything but that, like the Bible is super specific about it as opposed to Annihilationism. If you're a douche, you're probably getting the hammer. Don't know for sure what kind of hammer, but it's still a hammer. That's my personal doctrine about Hell.

This is why it is important to do word studies and scripture comparison, so that you can know what the word of God is saying and contend for the truth.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I was being facetious Ahwatukee. Hence the rolling eyes thingy

We also have gehenna which is used in reference to the lake of fire

I knew that. I was kind of using your post to respond to Sirk.

 

[valiant]

Hello TheStudent,

I would remind you that it is our "loving creator" who created and wrote about eternal punishment. We are not making this stuff up. What do you do when you come to the scriptures regarding eternal punishment. Has someone convinced you to spiritualize or symbolize that information? Listen to what Jesus said to his disciples and to all believers:

"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in geenna ."

The word "apollumi" translated "destroy" does not mean annihilation or extinction, but complete loss of well being, ruination and that in the lake of fire.

apollumi was the word used when Plato wanted to describe annihilation (which he did not believe in). And he was a Greek speaking Greek at the time not a twentieth century pseudo linguist.

 

[Ahwatukee]

What gospel is that?
This one - 1 Timothy 4:1
God's Spirit clearly says that in the last days many people will turn from their faith. They will be fooled by evil spirits and by teachings that come from demons.

Which is exactly what is taking place when people don't believe God's word regarding everlasting punishment or any other obvious Biblical subject. I'd like to see exactly what you guys do with scripture which teaches punishment in everlasting fire. Distortion or symbolization would have to take place, because the scriptures are very clear on the teaching of eternal punishment for the unsaved.

 

[valiant]

This is why it is important to do word studies and scripture comparison, so that you can know what the word of God is saying and contend for the truth.

give me one verse which clearly speaks about eternal torment, (not one of your badly misinterpreted ones from Revelation)

 

[Ahwatukee]

God already declared the wages of sin to be death.

True, but death, like life, is a state of conscious existence, not non-existence. Life and death is defined by ones state of being in relation to God. The smoke of ones torment cannot ascend up for ever and ever if they don't exist. Nor can an individual have no rest day or night if they are non-existent. For one would have to exist in order to experience having no cessation from punishment.

Sirk, you need to stop ignoring the literal meaning of scripture, which is what you would have to be doing in order to not believe in eternal punishment and that because scripture is very clear regarding this teaching.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Really...so God turns off the love justice and mercy side and reveals his sadistic side and punishes finite sins with conscious torment for all eternity?

He doesn't turn them off, they are just different parts of His nature. Once a person dies their record is sealed. If they died in their sins, then they will be held accountable for every sin they committed and that without grace or mercy. For the person who is in Christ, He was held accountable for every sin they committed. As Paul said,

"It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God!"

 

[Ahwatukee]

So what is God accomplishing with eternal torture? Is it justice?

If God did not even hold back wrath against His own Son in order to rescue us, what do you think the consequences will be for those who reject such a great salvation? God could have just said, "Your all forgiven" without paying any price, but he has been demonstrating from the very beginning that unless there is a shedding of innocent blood, there is no forgiveness for sin. It is a serious issue, with serious consequences for those who reject His offer. Being burnt up as soon as one is thrown into the fire would not be justice. Think about this: After all that Satan has done against God and mankind, his fate would only be to be burnt up and annihilated as soon as he hit the fire. Yet, what does it say regarding Satan's punishment:

"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

How can Satan's punishment be annihilation when scripture says that he will be tormented day and night for ever and ever? Again, you would have to be conscious and existing in order to experience torment. The words day and night convey on-going torment. If there is an end to punishment, I have not read it in scripture.

 

[Ahwatukee]

So it's okay to torture people when they molest a child or murder someone..... If thats the standard that God set with the hell doctrine.....right?

Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord! We are not the ones who carry out God's judgments. This is why we have authorities to take care of those who perform such crimes, but we are not take into our own hands. If those who do such things die in their sins, then God will meet out the punishment.

 

[fredoheaven]

What about "wicked turned into hell"? Will the wicked become hell? since hell enlarge itself? What would say?

Psalms 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God

 

[Ahwatukee]

So basically an unbeliever gets a picture painted of a sadistic God who willingly keeps people conscious to torture them for eternity. Ok...got it.

Sirk, which part of "for ever and ever" are you not understanding? Or "No rest day or night?" What do you do with those words? The word "anapausis" translated "rest" is defined as cessation, intermission, etc. Therefore, the verse is saying that they will have no intermission, no cessation from their torment in the lake of fire. And again, it is not God being sadistic, but meeting out his justice according to His righteousness.

I would suggest that you do another study on the subject of eternal punishment and read the scriptures at face value and stop applying any preconceived adopted teachings.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Ya man....I was raised in church and I've read all these hundreds of times. Can you please answer the questions I have asked.

A just, merciful loving God willingly keeps people conscious for eternity to torture them?

Because He is also a God of righteous judgment. Consider the following scripture:

"A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand,[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath."

You see in scripture where it says "poured out full strength?" That means, no mercy mixed in with His wrath.

 

[Ahwatukee]

My brother in-law is a JW, according to their literature the governing body of JW's teach that hell is simply the abode of the dead, so they do believe in hell but not the same way as others have interpreted the meaning or context of the place.

The way I see it is if there is a everlasting torment in hellfire and a paradise heaven and if the unrighteous at death go to an everlasting hellfire and the righteous go to paradise heaven then there can be no resurrection of anyone, any resurrection is done away with because how can you resurrect anyone that is already been sent to a place at death?

The whole thing is convoluted

Hello Kedge,

The problem is not understanding meaning of the word resurrection . The word "Anastasis" translated "Resurrection" is defined as "to stand up again" in the same body. Jesus is our example of this, for His body was in the tomb for 3 days and then that same body came back to life. This was the the whole point of the empty tomb, when Martha and Mary arrived and they didn't find the Lord's body.

When a believer in Christ dies, scripture states that their spirit/soul departs from the body and goes to be in the presence of the Lord, in spirit form, while their body lies in the dust of the earth decaying. At the time of the resurrection, Jesus will bring back with him all of those spirits/souls who have died and been in his presence and they will be reunited with their resurrected bodies. Immediately after the dead are raised, those who are sill alive will be changed into their immortal and glorified bodies and will be caught up with those who will have just previously resurrected. (1 Thes.4:13-18, 1 Cor.15:51-52, 2 Cor.5:8, Phil.1:23)

So currently, all of those in Christ who have died, their spirit/soul went to be in the presence of the Lord and are waiting to return with him for the resurrection of their bodies. To be clear, when the spirit departs from the body at the time of death, that is not a resurrection, as the resurrection has to do with the body standing up again.

I hope this gives some understanding.

 

[kedge]

What happens when a person dies? A saved person, will be in heaven for eternity when he dies. An unsaved person will go straight in hell when he dies.

What is the purpose of planet earth? is earth just a training ground? what about a person that had an unforseen occurence that ended the persons life or that it was cut off too short, they never had the option to know the God of the Bible and be given the choice to serve God so where do they go? why create the physical universe, planet earth etc if ultimately we either end up in heaven or hellfire? that is quite mind numbing for me personally, I really don't understand the whole purpose of it all if I am honest. Surely it has to be logical reasonable and be easy to understand? I don't get it and i'm not sure if I buy this?.

 

[kedge]

So currently, all of those in Christ who have died, their spirit/soul went to be in the presence of the Lord and are waiting to return with him for the resurrection of their bodies. I hope this gives some understanding.

I don't understand, I thought what some are saying is that upon death on this planet the righteous go straight into heaven and the unrighteous go straight to hellfire? return with the Lord to where? if they are a spirit person why do they need a body?