Here is another passage for the law/sabbath keepers to explain away........

[JaumeJ]

Joh 13:34

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Joh 13:35


By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Above in the same Book, John, the identical commandment is given by our Lord, Jesus Christ. It is called only a "new" commandment. This is to be included with the laws of Love, for God is Love. Nowhere does this new commandment take away from obeying God.

Now this is the question is it not? Do we or do we not obey our Father? He gave us His wisdom on living and being in this age. Even our parents in this age lay down the rules for our homes, otherwise there would be chaos. I prefer the order given by our Heavenly Father to that lawless and easy way preached by many these days.

God does not lie.

 

[just-me]

Did Adam need to obey God in order to be made righteous? No, he was already righteous. Did God bring death to Adam when he disobeyed God or did the disobedience bring death into Adam? The day Adam ate, he died. Death is intrinsic to sin.

We don't obey God to be made righteous, we obey God so we can live.

Sin kills whether you're a Jew or a Gentile.

Romans 2:7-10 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

You have to move away from viewing obedience to the Law to be made righteous is the only purpose of the Law. The Law is God's instruction in how to live life and live. The Law defines sin because sin kills, whether you're a Christian or not. I agree that the Law teaches us what righteousness looks like but it also teaches us what sin looks like. Our righteousness is a position imputed to us through Christ but sin is still sin and it can still kill a righteous person (Adam).

Amen
Hebrews 1:10-14
10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11 They shall perish ; but thou remainest ; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up , and they shall be changed : but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail .
13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool ?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
continuing with the very next verses Hebrews 2:1-3
1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard , lest at any time we should let them slip .
2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
3 How shall we escape , if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

 

[just-me]

Confession and repentance always accompanies forgiveness with God and man to man. Without the proceeding, there can be now forgiveness. It's Biblical. We should always have the heart to be ready to forgive, even our enemies that confess and repent when they have done wrong to us. Concerning the law of the year of Jubilee pertains directly with forgiveness. The law of forgiveness is not a new thing that is only in the new covenant.

Luke 17:4 KJV

And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying , I repent ; thou shalt forgive him.

 

[Simona25]

Amen! I love the council of Jerusalem because ever since I read that about two years ago I started stealing cars. I have about 40 of them right now and about $150,000.00 in the bank. My mother and father tried to talk me out of it but I told them to go pound tar and then I shoved my father. My mother got so upset when I pushed my dad but I lied to her and told her that I didn't push him. She didn't believe me and was going to call the police so I had to kill her. But hey, at least I abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.

I said with another occasion that some people are so barbarian that all they got from Christianity was "thou shall not kill", "thou shall not steal", "thou shall not commit adultery". It is not your fault that you are retarded, but at least, keep your stupidities away and stop closing the doors of Heaven to people who are capable of understanding something more from Christ (than you did).

 

[kennethcadwell]

I said with another occasion that some people are so barbarian that all they got from Christianity was "thou shall not kill", "thou shall not steal", "thou shall not commit adultery". It is not your fault that you are retarded, but at least, keep your stupidities away and stop closing the doors of Heaven to people who are capable of understanding something more from Christ (than you did).

I understood what you are saying, and I pray and hope that Scuba was just being sarcastic.

I think he was, because anybody in their right mind when they read the scriptures should know that we as followers in Christ can not walk in willful un-repented sin, or return to walking in willful un-repented sin and be saved.

 

[Simona25]

The definitive instructions for loving God and our neighbor are written in the law God gave to Israel through Moses. If we are to love God's way, it is God's law of love that we must follow in principle.
Please read Deuteronomy 6:1-6 and Leviticus 19:15-18 and then say truthfully that this doesn't apply to your life because you have faith in Christ. People seem to not get it that a covenant is an agreement between two or more parties. Christ has done His part, is it not right for us to reciprocate to His divine will as we do our part?

Romans 3:31 KJV

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid : yea, we establish the law.

This is not nonsense. Finishing the law means there is nothing further that needs to be done to complete all of God's plan from the beginning to the end.

Romans 10:4New King James Version (NKJV)

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

 

[just-me]

I said with another occasion that some people are so barbarian that all they got from Christianity was "thou shall not kill", "thou shall not steal", "thou shall not commit adultery". It is not your fault that you are retarded, but at least, keep your stupidities away and stop closing the doors of Heaven to people who are capable of understanding something more from Christ (than you did).

Speaking of the "falling away" which I mentioned previously......do you not understand the meaning of facetious?
2 Timothy 3:1-5
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come .
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded , lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away .

 

[JaumeJ]

Romans 10:4New King James Version (NKJV)

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Do you realize in the same book, Romans, it is written that our faith establishes the law? Now something that is estabished is not abolished.
Also in the same Book, the law is called holy.

Our example in life though is not Paul, our Example is Jesus Christ. We obey the laws as He did, honoring Him not only in word but in deed. I could elaborate furthing, but I alrelady have.

There is never fault in obeying our Heavenly Father, but being lawless is being a follower of the beast before he has arrived.

 

[just-me]

The Leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees
5 When the disciples reached the other side, they had forgotten to bring any bread.6 Jesus said to them, "Watch and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees."7 And they began discussing it among themselves, saying, "We brought no bread."8 But Jesus, aware of this, said, "O you of little faith, why are you discussing among yourselves the fact that you have no bread?9 Do you not yet perceive? Do you not remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many baskets you gathered?10 Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many baskets you gathered?11 How is it that you fail to understand that I did not speak about bread? Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees."12 Then they understood that he did not tell them to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
matt 16

I wonder how many professing Christians today know what the leaven of the Pharisees really means. They had distorted the original meanings of the law so bad by adding so much of their own law to the original that it became a burden to the inhabitance rather than an asset. One example is Jesus clearing the temple of the greedy money changers because of His compassion on the poor. He was very angry. The Pharisees had distorted the law so badly that the truth of the original law that God gave to Moses was abolished. For all intents a purposes they were as lawless as people that say the law is abolished through Christ today.

John 5:38-47
38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent , him ye believe not.
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
41 I receive not honour from men.
42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive .
44 How can ye believe , which receive honour one of another , and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust .
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

 

[Simona25]

We do see many things very differently!

It's not only that we see things differently. We also do not have the same ground, the same basis. I say something and you understand something completely different. Maybe it is because of my bad English that I am misunderstood, I don't know.

When we are told the things we are to follow in Acts 15, if you will notice that the verse just following the instructions lets us know why these were chosen: it was to allow those people to hear scripture in the only place they could at that time, in the synagogues. Today, we can read it in the Old Testament.

No. The Apostles gathered at the Council of Jerusalem in order to solve the conflict between those who kept the law and the gentiles. The Apostles said "24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”[f] —to whom we gave no such commandment 25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ."

It seems to me that when humans speak against what it taught in the Old Testament about what Christ can do for us through His blood as "ONLY" shadows, all to be ignored, it is not right. We are told it is very wrong to even think of using the symbol of the true blood of Christ, but I think it is wrong when we say God can teach us nothing when He explains the shadows.

Christians don't speak against the Old Testament. They understand that the Old Testament is fulfilled by the Messiah, Jesus Christ. The Old Testament has a prophetical, theological and typological character. Let me give you examples of shadows (typologies, prefigurations) in the Old Testament that find their spiritual realities in the New Testament:

-The Exodus from the O.T. is the prefiguration of the exodus of all mankind through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, from the death of sin to eternal life
-The Decalogue (O.T.) is linked to the Beatitudes (N.T.)
-The chosen people, Israel (O.T.) is a prefiguration of the new Christian people (In Christ there is no jewish, no gentile, no man, no woman; in Christ every religious, ethnic and sexual differences between people is surpassed)
-persons from the O.T. (King David, the prophets, etc.) prefigures the work of the Messiah.

So, we are not against the O.T., quite on the contrary.

If you are speaking, in your post (IF) about the Nicene Council, one of several goals of that council was to separate the church that worshipped Christ from anything God spoke of in the Old Testament. If it had Jewish roots, it was considered wrong. Christ was Jewish, Paul was Jewish, they said they were accepted but anything else must go. The gentile people at that time and for years considered the Jewish people very strange with customs that seemed unacceptable. Perhaps it was God's way of helping the world accept Him, to divorce completely from the customs of the Jews, but it was like throwing out the baby with the water the baby was bathed in. It is time to look that decision over with the eyes of the Lord.

Yes. It is about the Nicene Council that I was speaking. Proofs that the christians separated their cult from the jewish practices exist also in the Teaching of the Twelve Apostles (The Didache), the oldest post-biblical christian book. There you read about how the christians gathered on Sunday for the Eucharist.

 

[Simona25]

The prefigurations from the O.T. point to the spiritual realities of the N.T. They reveal the organic unity that exists between the Old Testament and the New Testament.

 

[kennethcadwell]

It's not only that we see things differently. We also do not have the same ground, the same basis. I say something and you understand something completely different. Maybe it is because of my bad English that I am misunderstood, I don't know.



No. The Apostles gathered at the Council of Jerusalem in order to solve the conflict between those who kept the law and the gentiles. The Apostles said "24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”[f] —to whom we gave no such commandment 25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ."



Christians don't speak against the Old Testament. They understand that the Old Testament is fulfilled by the Messiah, Jesus Christ. The Old Testament has a prophetical, theological and typological character. Let me give you examples of shadows (typologies, prefigurations) in the Old Testament that find their spiritual realities in the New Testament:

-The Exodus from the O.T. is the prefiguration of the exodus of all mankind through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, from the death of sin to eternal life
-The Decalogue (O.T.) is linked to the Beatitudes (N.T.)
-The chosen people, Israel (O.T.) is a prefiguration of the new Christian people (In Christ there is no jewish, no gentile, no man, no woman; in Christ every religious, ethnic and sexual differences between people is surpassed)
-persons from the O.T. (King David, the prophets, etc.) prefigures the work of the Messiah.

So, we are not against the O.T., quite on the contrary.



Yes. It is about the Nicene Council that I was speaking. Proofs that the christians separated their cult from the jewish practices exist also in the Teaching of the Twelve Apostles (The Didache), the oldest post-biblical christian book. There you read about how the christians gathered on Sunday for the Eucharist.

You can not separate the OT from the NT as in one applies and the other doesn't. Even Jesus referred back to the OT in His teachings and said that He did not come to abolish it.

Saying this though you must understand that there is differences between the OT and the NT, and Jesus points those out to us. Then the apostles who continue His teachings show other differences between being under the new covenant from the old.

You can not completely throw out the OT though because some of it does still apply, as well as there are prophecies that have not yet been fulfilled. Even though some will try to tell you they have.

 

[Simona25]

You can not separate the OT from the NT as in one applies and the other doesn't. Even Jesus referred back to the OT in His teachings and said that He did not come to abolish it.

Saying this though you must understand that there is differences between the OT and the NT, and Jesus points those out to us. Then the apostles who continue His teachings show other differences between being under the new covenant from the old.

You can not completely throw out the OT though because some of it does still apply, as well as there are prophecies that have not yet been fulfilled. Even though some will try to tell you they have.

My friend,

Where did I separate the O.T from the N.T????????????????

Didn't I give these examples to emphasize the inseparable unity between the O.T. and the N.T.
I am a christian, not a marcionist!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[phil112]

Do you realize in the same book, Romans, it is written that our faith establishes the law?................................There is never fault in obeying our Heavenly Father, but being lawless is being a follower of the beast before he has arrived.

"...........which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction" ..............Peter is talking to you and red here.

My behaviour, due to the love of God shed abroad in my heart, prevents me from sinning, hence the law has no application to me. Why do you and the other sabbath keepers try so hard to associate rampant depravity with absence of law? You people are too busy walking in the flesh to understand what the work of the spirit is all about. When God made Adam there was no law, do you think Adam was a wanton sinner, so God made the law for him?

 

[kennethcadwell]

"...........which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction" ..............Peter is talking to you and red here.

My behaviour, due to the love of God shed abroad in my heart, prevents me from sinning, hence the law has no application to me. Why do you and the other sabbath keepers try so hard to associate rampant depravity with absence of law? You people are too busy walking in the flesh to understand what the work of the spirit is all about. When God made Adam there was no law, do you think Adam was a wanton sinner, so God made the law for him?

There was no law back when God made Adam.

Did God not tell Adam what to do, and what not to do ?

Did Adam listen, no he and Eve still ate from the tree of knowledge they were commanded not to eat from.
The punishment for that sin, was hard labor and physical death.

 

[JaumeJ]

I would say 99.9% of my fellows who believe in obedience as opposed to living in lawlessness here, also know there is not salvation without the grace of Jesus Christ's Blood.

We have each explained this on the deaf ears of those too intellectual to hear.

Those who do not hear us, and yet say we are trying to win or earn our salvation are condemning brothers in Jesus Christ to hell, in their minds that is, but the will never convince anyone who believes in obeying Jesus Christ to ignore the commandments.

You see, the commandments are laws, and breading them or thinking one does not require observing them is tantamount to being lawless.

Now, once more you have heard my confession of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God, as my Salvation. When I choose to act as much as He in my path given me, this iis honoring Him, the Father, and the Holy Spirit.

Please stop planting seeds of division about those who know the Grace that is Jesus Christ; it is not just unadviseable, it is spiritualy dangerous.

Being lawless is worhipping the lawless one before he comes on the scene, beware, and worship Jesus Christ, amen.

 

[Apostol2013]

I would say 99.9% of my fellows who believe in obedience as opposed to living in lawlessness here, also know there is not salvation without the grace of Jesus Christ's Blood.

We have each explained this on the deaf ears of those too intellectual to hear.

Those who do not hear us, and yet say we are trying to win or earn our salvation are condemning brothers in Jesus Christ to hell, in their minds that is, but the will never convince anyone who believes in obeying Jesus Christ to ignore the commandments.

You see, the commandments are laws, and breading them or thinking one does not require observing them is tantamount to being lawless.

Now, once more you have heard my confession of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God, as my Salvation. When I choose to act as much as He in my path given me, this iis honoring Him, the Father, and the Holy Spirit.

Please stop planting seeds of division about those who know the Grace that is Jesus Christ; it is not just unadviseable, it is spiritualy dangerous.

Being lawless is worhipping the lawless one before he comes on the scene, beware, and worship Jesus Christ, amen.

If we live acording to the law of the spirit in christ we do not break any laws lest one sin for sin is also the transgression as also says the law of moshe but study more and learn those led by the spirit are living an even higher standard than the law of moses

 

[kennethcadwell]

If we live acording to the law of the spirit in christ we do not break any laws lest one sin for sin is also the transgression as also says the law of moshe but study more and learn those led by the spirit are living an even higher standard than the law of moses

We are called for higher purpose and to live a better standard in life than what we have been living.

We can not say though that just because we are in followers of Jesus our Lord we do not sin.
The scriptures show that Peter, Paul, and James still sinned. Paul even referred to himself as the worst of sinners who follow Jesus because of what he did before he accepted Jesus and how he still wars with the flesh.

 

[JaumeJ]

If we live acording to the law of the spirit in christ we do not break any laws lest one sin for sin is also the transgression as also says the law of moshe but study more and learn those led by the spirit are living an even higher standard than the law of moses

Are you teaching the law of the Spirit nullifies the commandments of our Father? If so, please demonstrate this by the Word, and not simply one line, the lines previous or following so we may see the context.

As far as my study has taken me, I see nowhere in the Word that this is the manner in which what you say is to be understood. Yes, once we have faith, we do obey the laws by our new nature, but listening too much to what people teach about the law being abolished clouds reason.

Do not teach or even intimate that being lawless is recommended or even permitted by the Word of God, for this is being lawless.

God bless all who are indeed in Jesus Christ, amen.

 

[royalscot]

Did Adam need to obey God in order to be made righteous? No, he was already righteous. Did God bring death to Adam when he disobeyed God or did the disobedience bring death into Adam? The day Adam ate, he died. Death is intrinsic to sin.

We don't obey God to be made righteous, we obey God so we can live.

Sin kills whether you're a Jew or a Gentile.

Romans 2:7-10 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

You have to move away from viewing obedience to the Law to be made righteous is the only purpose of the Law. The Law is God's instruction in how to live life and live. The Law defines sin because sin kills, whether you're a Christian or not. I agree that the Law teaches us what righteousness looks like but it also teaches us what sin looks like. Our righteousness is a position imputed to us through Christ but sin is still sin and it can still kill a righteous person ."QUOTE]

law saved no one. 1 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."gal 2

saved by promise or law ,

3 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us--for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree"--14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

[SUP]8 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.19 For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.20 The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,21 so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
[/SUP]