Not By Works

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Dec 28, 2016
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Let me put this simply.
That's highly doubtful. Let's see, somewhere you're going to imply I'm lost while surrounding that with a bunch of chimerical and incoherent nonsense.

So whatever your defence, it is clear you are in unbelief and do not think Christ has done enough to make you righteous...Ironic the very crime you accuse me of, you are guilty of yourself. The enemy is always good at this deception, so many fall for it, but in the court of the Lord it makes you empty and powerless.
And there it is, like clockwork! :D

The hilarious thing is you're describing yourself in that you have taught Christ has not done enough:

"The cross (of Christ) is not enough."

"You put too much on Christ and not enough on yourself."

"The imputed righteousness of Christ is a neat little trick that doesn't work."

"Having security in Christ is an idol."

All the above are your false teachings. Anyone defending you is an accomplice of your false gospel.

Hang it up, you've been found out long ago - you are in fact a false teacher and preach a false gospel, and fall under the category of the apostle Paul as "deceiving, and being deceived."
 
Dec 12, 2013
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you just contradicted yourself,since we all who have accepted Christ as saviour,are under his grace we are his "Forever" so your idea of there being some greater cleansing is rather non sense,to put things simply we are saved through Jesus not works,and we since we are not perfect as Jesus was and is we will sin again at some point despite being saved,the point is not that we must desperately keep from sin,we must do what we can for Jesus as "Evidence" of our faith,as well as trust in his promise of salvation,for if we could be without sin,then what did Jesus die for?
Why did Jesus obtain and give to simon peter the keys of hell?
Why did Jesus ascend instead of stay?
why did we receive the comforter the holy spirit?
Because we cannot keep from sin on our own nor is it as "easy" as you proclaim to "Endure" sin,we are not just cleansed completely and told something so trivial and preposterous as "ok you are cleansed now don't sin "ever" again or you will lose your salvation or be cut off from God,to act as if one "cannot" sin somehow is ludicrous,we are to keep from sin but to do so we trust in Jesus's promise of eternal life and that "his grace is sufficient for us" sufficient to keep us going forward for him,yes many sins leave us as we go,because we keep our minds and hearts upon serving God,but there is no way that we will not be afflicted by sin nor that we will not succumb to sim at times,particularly in my case lust or others perhaps pride,it's realizing that we need God that saves us and though we sin we are to understand that so long as we are remorseful when in sin and ask forgiveness then God is forgiving and merciful,willful malicious sin is different but even in such sim we can still ask forgiveness,remember Jesus came not to condemn the world but to save man from their sins,sin whether we like it or not is our nature no matter how we fight against it,that's when we have to ask for Jesus's help to bring us out from sin when we are in need,sin is of man it always lingers with us in the background,all the more reason to turn to God when we feel we will sin,asking for strength to keep from sin,when we are tempted for it is not of ourselves that we keep from sin is from serving and trusting God and trusting his word,I too wish I were free of sin completely but I know that I'll have to endureth until the end for Jesus,so though I be a sinner,I am glad to suffer in service to my lord and my Father God,and I shall trust his Word for I have given my life to him,I can only hope that others believe the same.
He contradicts himself and the bible on a regular basis......tragically I might add......
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,972
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This is the truth of your position. You put too much on Christ and too little on yourself.
. . . .

Is not YOUR personal doctrinal position CONTRADICTING what these verses actually say.

Romans 7:18-24 (NKJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?

Romans 3:20 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Romans 3:23-28 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
[SUP]24 [/SUP] being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
[SUP]25 [/SUP] whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;
[SUP]26 [/SUP] for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.
[SUP]28 [/SUP] For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.


Galatians 2:16-21 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] know that no one is justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ. And we have believed in Christ Jesus so that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But if we ourselves are also found to be “sinners” while seeking to be justified by Christ, is Christ then a promoter of sin? Absolutely not!
[SUP]18 [/SUP] If I rebuild the system I tore down, I show myself to be a lawbreaker.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For through the law I have died to the law, so that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ
[SUP]20 [/SUP] and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died for nothing.


Hebrews 9:11-12 (HCSB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] But the Messiah has appeared, high priest of the good things that have come. In the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands (that is, not of this creation),
[SUP]12 [/SUP] He entered the most holy place once for all, not by the blood of goats and calves, but by His own blood, having obtained eternal redemption. {PAST TENSE}


Romans 5:8-10 (CSBBible) [SUP]8 [/SUP] But God proves his own love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] How much more then, since we have now been declared righteous by his blood, will we be saved through him from wrath.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]
For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, then how much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by his life.


Are you not trying to ROB the GLORY that SOLELY BELONGS TO CHRIST ALONE?


 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,972
4,586
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h e r e s y alert. stop saying this
Yes that is obvious! Even Paul warned us they would come. And there will be more coming in the near future.

Galatians 1:8-9 (ESV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

Matthew 24:24-25 (ESV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] See, I have told you beforehand.
 
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TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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Originally Posted by PeterJens

This is the truth of your position. You put too much on Christ and too little on yourself.


"h e r e s y alert. stop saying this"
Post award of the year goes to:

"Muzungu256"


 
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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,972
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Many who were last will be first.

And in the parable, those who only worked a portion of the day received the same wage as the men who worked all day.

And the First Covenant finishes Last and the Last Covenant finishes first.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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h e r e s y alert. stop saying this
For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart.[Matthew 12:34b]

PJ has spoken from what fills his heart.

Christ's righteousness being imputed to us is a farce.
He likens it to 'Jesus spray'.
The cross is not enough to save us.
We put too much focus upon Him and not ourselves.

This is Joel and Victoria Osteenism...
 
Dec 28, 2016
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Is not YOUR personal doctrinal position CONTRADICTING what these verses actually say.

Romans 7:18-24 (NKJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?

Romans 3:20 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Romans 3:23-28 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
[SUP]24 [/SUP] being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
[SUP]25 [/SUP] whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;
[SUP]26 [/SUP] for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.
[SUP]28 [/SUP] For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.


Galatians 2:16-21 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] know that no one is justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ. And we have believed in Christ Jesus so that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But if we ourselves are also found to be “sinners” while seeking to be justified by Christ, is Christ then a promoter of sin? Absolutely not!
[SUP]18 [/SUP] If I rebuild the system I tore down, I show myself to be a lawbreaker.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For through the law I have died to the law, so that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ
[SUP]20 [/SUP] and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died for nothing.


Hebrews 9:11-12 (HCSB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] But the Messiah has appeared, high priest of the good things that have come. In the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands (that is, not of this creation),
[SUP]12 [/SUP] He entered the most holy place once for all, not by the blood of goats and calves, but by His own blood, having obtained eternal redemption. {PAST TENSE}


Romans 5:8-10 (CSBBible) [SUP]8 [/SUP] But God proves his own love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] How much more then, since we have now been declared righteous by his blood, will we be saved through him from wrath.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]
For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, then how much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by his life.


Are you not trying to ROB the GLORY that SOLELY BELONGS TO CHRIST ALONE?


He perpetually does this...
 
Dec 28, 2016
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That's highly doubtful. Let's see, somewhere you're going to imply I'm lost while surrounding that with a bunch of chimerical and incoherent nonsense.



And there it is, like clockwork! :D

The hilarious thing is you're describing yourself in that you have taught Christ has not done enough:

"The cross (of Christ) is not enough."

"You put too much on Christ and not enough on yourself."

"The imputed righteousness of Christ is a neat little trick that doesn't work."

"Having security in Christ is an idol."

All the above are your false teachings. Anyone defending you is an accomplice of your false gospel.

Hang it up, you've been found out long ago - you are in fact a false teacher and preach a false gospel, and fall under the category of the apostle Paul as "deceiving, and being deceived."
He incessantly says ppl are lost through thinly veiled attacks and gets away with it on here.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,972
4,586
113
Ok, but isn't that the motivation of born again Christians? To avoid eternal damnation?
NO, we are SAVED the very first moment we Guinuinely Believe to the point of Complete surrender, thus as an act of LOVE we willingly give HIM control of our lives as LORD and MASTER. My moment of SAVING FAITH, came after a third attempt at Suicide in a single week the end of 1977. I believe it was at that moment the HOLY SPIRIT GAVE ME a specific prayer that I never heard anyone use before. I prayed, as this tremendous guilt over my whole lifestyle washed over me, wave after wave, as weeped uncontrollably, "Lord Forgive Me, FORGIVE ME! If you have a purpose for my life, then you come into it, and you run it, because I can't do it. I am making a total mess of it!"

I knew I was totally surrendering to Jesus Christ, never to take back the control again. Did he take me up on that offer? OH YEAH! Through a whole series of minor Minor Miracles, this Nebraska farm boy, ended up in Northern California as a Volunteer Protestant Chaplain, in two different supermax prisons. Nine years at the first one and six years at the second one, and I did not have a single hour of Bible College. The Lord did it all, He keep opening doors that other people said would not happen, and I just kept Totally Trusting HIM, and walking through those doors. IT WAS NOT ME DOING THAT MINISTRY, IT WAS JESUS CHRIST IN ME DOING IT. We serve and obey, BECAUSE WE LOVE HIM; and He empowers us to do what we cannot do on our own.


1 Corinthians 16:21-24 (NCV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] I, Paul, am writing this greeting with my own hand.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] If anyone does not love the Lord,
let him be separated from God—lost forever! {accursed}
Come, O Lord!
[SUP]23 [/SUP] The grace of the Lord Jesus be with you.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] My love be with all of you in Christ Jesus.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Uh oh...is this a trick? So then DC can call us caketakers...? :D
NAWWWW...only people who say...

The cross is not enough

The imputed righteousness of Christ is a neat little trick that does not work or compares it to Jesus spray

Belief into the security of Christ is an idol

We put to much emphasis on Christ and not enough on ourself