Questions I need answered

Elijah19 · Apr 12, 2015

OK, so I have a lot of different questions I've run into recently that I need Christian/Bible based answers on. In no particular order, here they are:

1.) Why do some groups of Christians I meet say that if you decide to get your body cremated rather than buried, you will go to hell even if you were a Christian in life? I don't think there is truth in this doctrine, but apparently some people believe it. Partly because they associate fire with hell, and partly because they think destroying the body after death is violating it and hence a sin. In the same way, believers of this doctrine believe that having your body destroyed after death might make it "hard to resurrect." I think this doctrine is silly and stupid because nothing is hard for Jesus, but I have run into people who believe it, and I just want to make sure I'm right, because my whole family has elected cremation as our funeral ceremony.

2.) Is the Christian group known as the "Campbellites" (they call their denomination the Church of Christ) a cult? I have a friend who is in the Church of Christ, and he believes that anyone who identifies with any other denomination is going to hell because they do not identify officially with what he believes is the one, true "Church of Christ." He keeps telling me that I need to "Stop being a baptist, and become a real Christian" and that "anyone identifying themselves with a denomination of Christianity is not a Christian and is not saved, only those who are in the Church of Christ." I find this attitude very cultish, but when I try to tell him this, he says "there is only one true Church of Christ. Denominations are the Church of Man, and all people in them belong, therefore, to the devil. Christ is not divided is he?" I however, believe that as long as you acknowledge Jesus as Savior and Lord, repenting of your sin, you will be saved regardless of denomination. What are your thoughts on this so called only "Church of Christ" and it's super exclusive ways?

3.) We are free to read and interpret the Bible. But when does interpretation go too far? I'm not talking about making omissions or additions to the scripture here, I'm talking about interpreting what's already there as it is. As a protestant, I believe that it is the right of every person to read and interpret the Bible as logic and reason, led by the power of the Holy Spirit, would lead. This was a key concept in the Protestant reformation, after all, and stands in stark contrast to the Medieval Catholic church of Luther's time, which kept the Bible chained to the church pulpit and didn't allow anyone to read it, much less have their own understanding of what it said. That was the Catholic Church's power-bargaining chip over the Medieval world, after all. Ignorance over spiritual matters kept them in a seat of influence. But ignorance over Scripture can also come as a result of too loose of an interpretation. Where do we draw the line? Too rigid of an interpretation usually suggests tampering by corrupting powers, but too loose of an interpretation usually invites damnation.

4.) Was the wine that Jesus made at the wedding at Cana in Galilee alcoholic or just grape juice, as some suggest? The context would seem to suggest it was fairly alcoholic, since the scripture says that the master of the party commented on how it was the best wine brought out last. As the tradition in the time was to begin with the best wine, wait till the guests got tipsy, then bring out the lesser seeing as now they wouldn't notice it since they were buzzed - the wine that Jesus made must have been fairly strong stuff since it beat the earliest batch. If this is true, however, that opens the door for a whole new discussion on Christians and alcohol use (not that I'm condoning drunkenness here). If the wine was much closer to grape juice however, what proof is there of this, and why is it hinted in the Bible context that Jesus' wine was extremely strong stuff?

And that's it. Feel free to answer any one of my concerns or all of them as you see fit with Bible knowledge. But I just want to be sure I have all answers on these things, as they have all come up with me recently in my life.

Dan58 · Apr 13, 2015

1. It doesn't matter how a body is disposed of after death. There's nothing in the bible that condemns cremation. The Lake of Fire destroys body, soul, and spirit, so that's the only fire we need to avoid. (Revelation 20:14)

2. Many denominations claim they are the only right way, I think they claim such to keep their congregation intact? Bottom line is that Jesus is the way, and if we're following him, we're doing okay. "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you" (Matthew 7:2 niv).

3. We are inspired to study scriptures, but I reckon some people can interpret things too literal or too figuratively. The important thing is to keep on studying and keep on learning. Having a hunger for understanding is something the good Lord looks favorably on, as long as we don't get too radical and put our own spin on whats written. "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so" (Acts 17:11 kjv).

4. I suspect the wine was aged, but I doubt anyone got loaded. Nothing wrong with having a cup of wine, its drinking the whole bottle that makes a person a drunk. "Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities" (1 Timothy 5:23). I just happen to have a lot of infirmities

Jeff_56 · Apr 13, 2015

no one in TORAH was ever willingly cremated.

being cremated was reserved for the wicked.

some campbellites are saved. some are not. same with almost all groups.
some groups are heresy, and thus anyone who believes in heresy is not saved. period.
yahweh knows who are his.

there's only a few teachers you can find, yahweh willing, to tell you the truth about the various groups.
they will only verify what yahweh teaches you yourself himself from his word. (plain regular english bible, or whatever language is yours). yahweh teaches you in spirit, then from the spirit the mind starts to learn.

we are free to read and interpret the bible, yes. and everyone who does that starts in and continually goes off in error.
yahweh never allows HIS WORD to be interpreted. never. (understanding this takes much more than is
possible to convey here; it is up to yahweh) (besides, simply, it is what HIS WORD SAYS).... (look it up)

no one here will accept the truth about other things you asked about, let alone tell you.

if you want to know, ask yahweh for his revelation, and get the book sipping saints by david wilkerson. don't accept what anyone else says unless it agrees with yahweh's revelation to you.

the help you need you wil not find peaceably here, if at all. you will have to seek and keep on seeking with all that you are able, with everything that is within you - heart and soul and mind and all in all, seek yahweh.

test everything. pray constantly (yes, all day, all night, all the time)

ivanc0 · Apr 13, 2015

Jesus drank wine:
[h=1]Leviticus 10:9New International Version (NIV)[/h] [SUP]9 [/SUP]“You and your sons are not to drink wine or other fermented drink whenever you go into the tent of meeting, or you will die. This is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come,

They knew how to make wine an ruled their use.

about cremation, they just denny the power of God, if god could create the universe, it will also resurrect you no matter how you were disposed.

and about pacticular groups. This is a good one.
Jesus said to Peter you are stone and on this stone I will build my church and the doors of hades will not prevail.

Then some said Peter was a little stone.

Peter also wrote in the last days there will be sneaky teachers that will deceive you and will make merchandise of you (tithing, doctrine of prosperity, apostasy the creation of thousands of Christian churches)

about interpreting the Bible, this is difficult too, as parts of the bible are clearly verbal traditions written latter. the old testament is a mine field, the new testament if about the love of God and Jesus, but also have problems between Gentiles and Judaizants, and the law and the Grace !

See yourself and look for every think you feel is good, and Love others......

maxwel · Apr 13, 2015

1. Some people think that if you're cremated God won't be able to resurrect your body.
I'm pretty sure the same God who created the entire universe out of nothing isn't going to be stumped by a few ashes.
I wouldn't worry about it.

2. Here's the main problem with the Church of Christ people you mentioned: anyone, in any denomination, who says all other denominations are going to hell... is crazy.
I'd stay away from anyone saying that.
That isn't anywhere to be found in the bible.
(That doesn't mean all churches are fine, or all doctrine is equal, it just means that this kind of exclusivity is cult-like and unbiblical. You don't get to heaven by being in a particular denomination, you get to heaven by being "in Christ".)

3. The theory and methodology of biblical interpretation is called hermeneutics. There are standard principles of hermeneutics that most Bible-believing Christians adhere to. Although there are some minor disagreements, most orthodox believers adhere to similar principles of hermeneutics.

This means we are NOT to just read the bible willy nilly and decide for ourselves what we "guess" it means. There are specific, objective intentions within each text, and we can arrive at those intentions through applying correct principles of study.

If you want to know more about it, you can look up biblical hermeneutics.
There is a lot of information on it.
You can also read Bible commentaries by good orthodox authors.

4. Whether or not the wine was alcoholic is almost a non-issue. In Biblical times fermented wine was MUCH weaker than the wine we drink now, and then this weak wine was usually cut with 3 or 4 parts water.
The fermented wine of that time would have been EXTREMELY weak, and barely alcoholic at all.

posthuman · Apr 13, 2015

the One that made you out of dust is certainly able to reconstitute you from dust again. He made dust from nothing, yes? we all get hung up on ridiculous little points, myself included.
CoC is a denomination too.. so... lol. but it's not really funny - there are many false teachers and false prophets - you are right, there is one Lord, and His church is not confined to man-made 'denominations' - His church are those that He abides in, who abide in Him. exclusivity is in Christ Jesus, not in a denomination, no matter what they call themselves. dig into it if you want, even CoC is divided among themselves. that doesn't mean everyone in CoC is lost, or led astray either. it means Jesus Christ is the Way, Truth and Life - Emmanuel. not Joseph Campbell. not the pope. not Spurgeon. not Calvin. Christ. i think you know the Way don't fret over side-paths.
if your understanding of any one scripture conflicts with other scripture, you're misunderstanding it. that's an abstract question that's easier to answer in specifics. He gave us all of the Spirit though, not just to a few - yes, you and i both have a teacher within us, but also yes, He gave some gifts to teach and to understand, to help others also to know.
it was definitely alcoholic wine. IMHO the best wine that the earth has ever seen. grape juice doesn't dull the senses so that you can't tell the difference between new and old grape juice. there are several hundred-page-long discussions about it in the forum archives, and you may well be starting a new one right here lol -- but just look at what's written in the Bible - isn't it obvious? no need to muddle the head with arguments. it's also obviously not an encouragement to become a drunkard, and the scripture never says "even one drop of alcohol is sin"

ivanc0 · Apr 13, 2015

maxwel said:

1. Some people think that if you're cremated God won't be able to resurrect your body.
I'm pretty sure the same God who created the entire universe out of nothing isn't going to be stumped by a few ashes.
I wouldn't worry about it.

2. Here's the main problem with the Church of Christ people you mentioned: anyone, in any denomination, who says all other denominations are going to hell... is crazy.
I'd stay away from anyone saying that.
That isn't anywhere to be found in the bible.
(That doesn't mean all churches are fine, or all doctrine is equal, it just means that this kind of exclusivity is cult-like and unbiblical. You don't get to heaven by being in a particular denomination, you get to heaven by being "in Christ".)

3. The theory and methodology of biblical interpretation is called hermeneutics. There are standard principles of hermeneutics that most Bible-believing Christians adhere to. Although there are some minor disagreements, most orthodox believers adhere to similar principles of hermeneutics.

This means we are NOT to just read the bible willy nilly and decide for ourselves what we "guess" it means. There are specific, objective intentions within each text, and we can arrive at those intentions through applying correct principles of study.

If you want to know more about it, you can look up biblical hermeneutics.
There is a lot of information on it.
You can also read Bible commentaries by good orthodox authors.

4. Whether or not the wine was alcoholic is almost a non-issue. In Biblical times fermented wine was MUCH weaker than the wine we drink now, and then this weak wine was usually cut with 3 or 4 parts water.
The fermented wine of that time would have been EXTREMELY weak, and barely alcoholic at all.

This is why Noa was just barely drunk?
Genesis 9:21
When he drank some of its wine, he became drunk and lay uncovered inside his tent.

Fantasies!!!! He was drunk full stop.

RickyZ · Apr 13, 2015

Elijah19 said:

OK, so I have a lot of different questions I've run into recently that I need Christian/Bible based answers on. In no particular order, here they are:

1.) Why do some groups of Christians I meet say that if you decide to get your body cremated rather than buried, you will go to hell even if you were a Christian in life? I don't think there is truth in this doctrine, but apparently some people believe it. Partly because they associate fire with hell, and partly because they think destroying the body after death is violating it and hence a sin. In the same way, believers of this doctrine believe that having your body destroyed after death might make it "hard to resurrect." I think this doctrine is silly and stupid because nothing is hard for Jesus, but I have run into people who believe it, and I just want to make sure I'm right, because my whole family has elected cremation as our funeral ceremony.

2.) Is the Christian group known as the "Campbellites" (they call their denomination the Church of Christ) a cult? I have a friend who is in the Church of Christ, and he believes that anyone who identifies with any other denomination is going to hell because they do not identify officially with what he believes is the one, true "Church of Christ." He keeps telling me that I need to "Stop being a baptist, and become a real Christian" and that "anyone identifying themselves with a denomination of Christianity is not a Christian and is not saved, only those who are in the Church of Christ." I find this attitude very cultish, but when I try to tell him this, he says "there is only one true Church of Christ. Denominations are the Church of Man, and all people in them belong, therefore, to the devil. Christ is not divided is he?" I however, believe that as long as you acknowledge Jesus as Savior and Lord, repenting of your sin, you will be saved regardless of denomination. What are your thoughts on this so called only "Church of Christ" and it's super exclusive ways?

3.) We are free to read and interpret the Bible. But when does interpretation go too far? I'm not talking about making omissions or additions to the scripture here, I'm talking about interpreting what's already there as it is. As a protestant, I believe that it is the right of every person to read and interpret the Bible as logic and reason, led by the power of the Holy Spirit, would lead. This was a key concept in the Protestant reformation, after all, and stands in stark contrast to the Medieval Catholic church of Luther's time, which kept the Bible chained to the church pulpit and didn't allow anyone to read it, much less have their own understanding of what it said. That was the Catholic Church's power-bargaining chip over the Medieval world, after all. Ignorance over spiritual matters kept them in a seat of influence. But ignorance over Scripture can also come as a result of too loose of an interpretation. Where do we draw the line? Too rigid of an interpretation usually suggests tampering by corrupting powers, but too loose of an interpretation usually invites damnation.

4.) Was the wine that Jesus made at the wedding at Cana in Galilee alcoholic or just grape juice, as some suggest? The context would seem to suggest it was fairly alcoholic, since the scripture says that the master of the party commented on how it was the best wine brought out last. As the tradition in the time was to begin with the best wine, wait till the guests got tipsy, then bring out the lesser seeing as now they wouldn't notice it since they were buzzed - the wine that Jesus made must have been fairly strong stuff since it beat the earliest batch. If this is true, however, that opens the door for a whole new discussion on Christians and alcohol use (not that I'm condoning drunkenness here). If the wine was much closer to grape juice however, what proof is there of this, and why is it hinted in the Bible context that Jesus' wine was extremely strong stuff?

And that's it. Feel free to answer any one of my concerns or all of them as you see fit with Bible knowledge. But I just want to be sure I have all answers on these things, as they have all come up with me recently in my life.

1. Matter can be neither created or destroyed. All one can do is change the composition of it, which is what happens during cremation. I believe that the resurrection/rapture will occur on a sub-atomic level, and thus your atoms will be harvested no matter what form they may at that time take.

2. I'm not up on the CoC thing so I'll defer.

3. God says that testimony is established by two or more witnesses... and that includes His word. Scripture must be interpreted by scripture - keeping in mind that context is critically important in that.

4. I always refer to that incident as the time Jesus thought, "now that everyone's buzzed let's bring out the good stuff"

forsha · Apr 13, 2015

Elijah19 said:

When our physical body dies, our soul goes back to God who gave it, Ecc12:7. You are right, God has the power to raise our bodies up at the last day, no matter if they are cremated, eaten by wild animals, or what ever. The churches of Christ do practice and preach a false doctrine. I was a member of the church of Christ at one time and was appointed a deacon, but never did believe their doctrine, and my joining was just to fit into society. There are many scriptures that will not uphold their belief. The church that Jesus set up when he was on earth was never a part of the Catholic church. It was established before the Roman Catholic church, I have read a history of Christ's church that stated that two preachers of the early church had a disagreement over adding other things to the church, other than preaching, praying and singing that would attract a bigger following. The church split with the bigger part of the membership going with the preacher that implemented other attractive things to bring in a larger following. This offspring of the original church grew so large in number that it became a threat to the Roman empire, so the Roman government made that church a part of the Roman government, which became known as "The Roman Catholic Church". The Roman Catholic Church set about to destroy the few that stuck to only those teachings of what should be in the church, and the church had to go into hiding to survive, which was called the dark ages, Paul, before he was converted on the road to Damaskas, took part in his attempt to destroy the church. When the reformation from the Roman Catholic Church took place, the church that Christ set up was never a part of that reformation. I hope that I have given you something to think about.

forsha · Apr 13, 2015

Jeff_56 said:

no one in TORAH was ever willingly cremated.

being cremated was reserved for the wicked.

some campbellites are saved. some are not. same with almost all groups.
some groups are heresy, and thus anyone who believes in heresy is not saved. period.
yahweh knows who are his.

there's only a few teachers you can find, yahweh willing, to tell you the truth about the various groups.
they will only verify what yahweh teaches you yourself himself from his word. (plain regular english bible, or whatever language is yours). yahweh teaches you in spirit, then from the spirit the mind starts to learn.

we are free to read and interpret the bible, yes. and everyone who does that starts in and continually goes off in error.
yahweh never allows HIS WORD to be interpreted. never. (understanding this takes much more than is
possible to convey here; it is up to yahweh) (besides, simply, it is what HIS WORD SAYS).... (look it up)

no one here will accept the truth about other things you asked about, let alone tell you.

if you want to know, ask yahweh for his revelation, and get the book sipping saints by david wilkerson. don't accept what anyone else says unless it agrees with yahweh's revelation to you.

the help you need you wil not find peaceably here, if at all. you will have to seek and keep on seeking with all that you are able, with everything that is within you - heart and soul and mind and all in all, seek yahweh.

test everything. pray constantly (yes, all day, all night, all the time)

You tell him to stay away from man's interpretations and then tell him to read a book other than the bible called "sipping saints by David Wilkerson, shame, shame.

dcontroversal · Apr 13, 2015

I agree with post 5 and 6.........

1. Body returns to dust...does not matter the body is dead because of sin and will be corrupted upon death...I tell my mom all the time when she dies we will build a funeral pyre.....

2. Yes predominantly (not to say some are not saved) water and works do not equal salvation and it is fine to use musical instruments in way of worship and to say you have to be church of Christ reduces salvation down to church salvation (no different than the Catholics)
3. The bible is of no private interpretation and NO man who is saved needs another man to teach them anything as they have the spirit of God which leads, guides into all truth if one is honestly seeking....
4. Alcoholic......Jesus was not called a wine bibber because he drank grape juice and it seem kind of foolish to write....Be not drunk with grape juice in excess (Paul<--inspired and taught by direct revelation of Jesus) same guy told Timothy as a young pastor to take a little wine for the sake of his stomach......!

Elijah19 · Apr 13, 2015

Thanks for the help on these things, guys/gals! Yeah, I think we can pretty much conclude that cremation is not gonna condemn anybody, since all powerful God is not gonna get stumped over a burned body (lol). As for the Church of Christ group, denominational exclusiveness applied to salvation is a pretty bad trait, as far as I can see biblically.

The Holy Spirit is the teacher of the Bible, and will lead us into correct interpretation if we belong to Him, correct? The problem is, many teachers will claim to teach through the Holy Spirit yet will not, and it is easy to fool oneself into believing that one's personal revisions are Spirit led.

As for the discussion on Jesus turning water into wine, I have yet to meet a person who can present viable, empirical evidence that the wine which Jesus made was weak enough to be at grape juice level. In fact, I have studied a little on that time, and it turns out that the wine of that era was not that different from that of today, save that it lacked the artificial processing procedures and was often cut several times with water because it was sometimes very thick.

MaggieMye · Apr 14, 2015

1.) Why do some groups of Christians I meet say that if you decide to get your body cremated rather than buried, you will go to hell even if you were a Christian in life?
Because they are ignorant of Scripture. ALL….and that means ALL things are possible with God. If you live your life in Christ, you WILL receive the Promise of eternity with Him. …AS IF He CAN”T?? turn a bunch of burnt dust back into a body????
2.) Is the Christian group known as the "Campbellites" (they call their denomination the Church of Christ) a cult some would say yes, other, no. But the question is this: Why adhere to ANY doctrine? Why not just simply be a follower of Jesus and DO HIS WORD??
3.) We are free to read and interpret the Bible. But when does interpretation go too far? I'm not talking about making omissions or additions to the scripture here, I'm talking about interpreting what's already there as it is. As a protestant, I believe that it is the right of every person to read and interpret the Bible as logic and reason, led by the power of the Holy Spirit, would lead. Well, there are Protestants and then there are Holy Spirit empowered Protestants. The key is WHICH are YOU adhering to? Does the ‘denomination’ that you are sitting in even teach about the empowerment of the Holy Spirit? About being “born again”? Many do not, yet ignorantly believe that they will see heaven when Scripture CLEARLY says otherwise.

4.) Was the wine that Jesus made at the wedding at Cana in Galilee alcoholic or just grape juice, as some suggest? It was wine. If it had been grape juice, it would read “grape Juice”. But scripture is clear that it was alcoholic: Luke 1:15, Luke 7:33, Luke 10:34, and all the ones here that show that WINE made one DRUNK: https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=wine&qs_version=NASB

ivanc0 · Apr 14, 2015

forsha said:

When our physical body dies, our soul goes back to God who gave it, Ecc12:7. You are right, God has the power to raise our bodies up at the last day, no matter if they are cremated, eaten by wild animals, or what ever. The churches of Christ do practice and preach a false doctrine. I was a member of the church of Christ at one time and was appointed a deacon, but never did believe their doctrine, and my joining was just to fit into society. There are many scriptures that will not uphold their belief. The church that Jesus set up when he was on earth was never a part of the Catholic church. It was established before the Roman Catholic church, I have read a history of Christ's church that stated that two preachers of the early church had a disagreement over adding other things to the church, other than preaching, praying and singing that would attract a bigger following. The church split with the bigger part of the membership going with the preacher that implemented other attractive things to bring in a larger following. This offspring of the original church grew so large in number that it became a threat to the Roman empire, so the Roman government made that church a part of the Roman government, which became known as "The Roman Catholic Church". The Roman Catholic Church set about to destroy the few that stuck to only those teachings of what should be in the church, and the church had to go into hiding to survive, which was called the dark ages, Paul, before he was converted on the road to Damaskas, took part in his attempt to destroy the church. When the reformation from the Roman Catholic Church took place, the church that Christ set up was never a part of that reformation. I hope that I have given you something to think about.

Good argument, but not realistic, if the real Church of jesus went on hiding and the reformers were not part of it (this is just true history), then where is the Real church of Jesus?, you imply the world has not have a church of Jesus for thousands of years? and if the catholic church was just abomination, why is that we use a bible basically identical to the catholic bible.

Dorcas · Apr 15, 2015

1. Bible scripture doesn’t condemn cremation. The dead were disposed of in various ways in bible times. King Saul and his four sons died battling the Philistines. The Philistines cut off Saul’s head and pinned his body to a wall. When some Israelites living in Jabesh-gilead learned what had happened, they recovered the four bodies, burned them, and then buried the bones. David later praised those Israelites for their actions.—1 Sam. 31:2, 8-13; 2 Sam. 2:4-6. If David was upset about the bodies being cremated before burial he would not have praised them.
I can’t say why a Christian would take the stance that it is absolutely wrong to have your body cremated, because the scriptures make it clear that the fleshly body is not needed after death. (1 Corinthians 15:42-44) [SUP]42[/SUP] So it is with the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised up in incorruption. [SUP]43[/SUP] It is sown in dishonor; it is raised up in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised up in power.
2. Many people label religions that differ from the majority of Christians as a cult. I don’t subscribe to that practice. A lot of people feel that their particular faith or interpretation of the bible is the only correct one. Their convictions are just strong whether right or wrong. I reserve the use of the word cult for extreme groups, where the members have been isolated from society. Where they have been brainwashed to believe that their leader is a prophet and whatever he says is correct and they must obey him. I would not label any group of people as a cult if they believe that Jesus is the head of the congregation and therefore don’t elevate a human leader to that role. I think it would be wrong of me to comment on the beliefs of the Church of Christ because I am not a member of their church. You should go to their official website.
[FONT=&quot]I do not agree that as long as you acknowledge Jesus as Savior and Lord, repenting of your sin, you will be saved regardless of denomination. All denominations are not just different roads leading to the same place. After all different denominations teach different things. They cannot all be right. There is one God one truth. It is up to us to search for bible truths. After the apostles died apostasy crept into the congregation. Many pagans became nominal Christians and their customs began to be mixed in with the Christian teachings. You must do research and study to find out if what you believe is a true bible teaching or has been tainted by paganism?[/FONT]
Matthew 7:13, 14) . . .“Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; [SUP]14[/SUP] whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it.
(Matthew 7:21-23) . . .“Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. [SUP]22[/SUP] Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ [SUP]23[/SUP] And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’

3. Where do we draw the line when it comes to bible interpretation? I think the bible should be interpreted as a whole. Sometimes scriptures may seem to contradict one another but when you study the whole bible it comes together, then you can see the big picture. There were things that Jesus told his apostles that were unable to understand. They had to wait for the holy spirit shed light on those things. If we have a good heart God will help us to understand his word. As the end draws closer he will shed more light on his word.
4. The wine that Jesus made was alcoholic not just grape juice. Just because the wine was of a better quality doesn’t mean that it contained a higher quantity of alcohol. There are many characteristics of wine that make it more palatable.

Angela53510 · Apr 15, 2015

I think points 1-3 have been well covered.

Just a note on #4. Before I read Greek and Hebrew, I took Strong's and took a look at the words for wine. In the Old Testament there are two words - one for grape juice and one for the alcoholic beverage. Of course, Greek only has one word for wine and grape juice.

What I did find in the OT, is that in every incident of the alcoholic beverage being mentioned, except may one, it was extremely negative, and referred to something debauched or bad. The word referring to grape juice was always positive and often associated with God, the joy of the Lord and other good things.

Now I realize that taking that from the OT to the NT is a bit of bad hermeneutics, but for me, it really confirmed that I was to keep to never touching a drop of alcoholic beverage. Of any sort! I have never really wanted to drink again, since God delivered me from alcoholism when I got saved, but it was nice to see it more or less confirmed in the pages of the OT.

Someone else might want to do that word study, and see what the Bible says about the two beverages in the Old Testament and post it here. It was a very interesting study.

Of course, I am not condemning anyone who choses to drink in moderation. It is just not for me. And also confirmed by liver issues I have from some of the RA meds I have been on. So, unless Jesus himself turns the water into wine, I will never touch a drop of alcohol again. 35 years of sobriety and loving it!

Joshua_Generation · Apr 15, 2015

Well it seems the welches and smucker Christians are alive and well and still propagating the theory that wine in the Bible was grape jelly, grape juice, grape paste and all sorts of non-alcoholic stuff. All Because Jesus would not drink alcohol.

Elijah19 · Apr 15, 2015

Praise to God that he took you out of your alcoholism, Angela53510! It is always a blessing to see people that God has freed who testify as to His power to save!

Elijah19 · Apr 15, 2015

Hey, Dorcas! Awesome post as a reply to the thread. And thanks for the verse from 1 Corinthians on the cremation stuff. As for the second question I had, you said:

"I do not agree that as long as you acknowledge Jesus as Savior and Lord, repenting of your sin, you will be saved regardless of denomination. All denominations are not just different roads leading to the same place. After all different denominations teach different things. They cannot all be right. There is one God one truth."

This makes an exceptional point. Contradiction cannot exist within Jesus Christ, because he is the ONLY (*singular) Way, Truth, and Life. This is a good reminder, and one that I think everyone needed to hear. However, as to the subject of denominations, I believe Romans 10:9 says that "If you confess with our mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

Since the above verse is the case, and most Christian denominations by definition tend to confess Jesus as Lord and Resurrected, the Bible would tend to tell us that right denomination is not a prerequisite to Salvation.

I get what your saying, though. Not that each denomination is innocent or doesn't have a few screws loose. The point I'm trying to make is that we will never be perfect in practice as Christians, no matter how hard we try. If a person has Jesus as Lord and Risen Savior in their heart, and have turned from sin, the Bible tends to say that this is concrete ground for irrefutable Salvation.

But yes, I see where you are coming from. I think the point on worldviews contradicting would tend to apply more to differing religions rather than different denominations of Christianity, however... but I'd be willing to admit I'm wrong if it were made clear to me. I know I've made my judgement mistakes on these matters before.

Once again, thank you for your wisdom, Dorcas.

WheresEnoch · Apr 15, 2015

Some good answers so far.
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maxwel said:

Yet the people using hermeneutic principles still come to different conclusions... Not condemning it but it doesn't guarantee anything. I may be off topic but...

I think the number one first step to understanding the Bible is obeying Christ. Repent/turn from the sins you commit. Once you are obedient and start picking up your own cross daily, then you will receive the Holy Spirit. This is one of the major reasons why I think people misinterpret the Bible, they have deceived themselves into thinking they have the Holy Spirit leading them and living in them when they are only led by their flesh. If you want the Lord to abide in you and you in the Lord, you can't be full of all things unclean, having no desire to submit to God's will that you pursue holiness too.

God gives revelation and insight. It is up to us ask for it, to seek it diligently, we have to want it. Not the truth you think you have, but the real truth. You must be willing to reject whatever presuppositions you have if they do not line up with what is said in the Bible. You must be ready to accept that everyone you know is wrong, as they usually are, even the people who claim to be the experts and wear special costumes and have official titles are usually the farthest off.

You have to think analyze, "meditate"/visualize the scenarios in the Bible (placing yourself in each characters shoes), think logically, take peoples opinions and subject them to in depth criticism. When reading Paul, not only read his whole letters, but understand exactly what the subject is that he is talking about, most people completely flip Paul's teachings upside down. Text various opinions on a doctrine or passage. Get insight into a particular passage by finding the other passages in the Bible which shed light. Always make sure conclusions line up with what Christ taught. He taught very clearly and His actual words are very hard to misunderstand. Most of the people I know all claim they know Christ, yet none of them understand His actual words. Too brainwashed by false teachers which are literally everywhere, online, on tv, on the radio, in the churches...

Questions I need answered

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