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Ahwatukee

Revelation 4:1-6 (What must take place later)

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by , 2 Weeks Ago at 08:56 PM (107 Views)
After this I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven! And the first voice, which I had heard speaking to me like a trumpet, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.” 2At once I was in the Spirit, and behold, a throne stood in heaven, with one seated on the throne.

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As we previously saw in Rev.1:19, John was told to write what he had seen, what is now and what will take place later.

The “what is now” is represented by the letters to the seven churches, which is an allusion to the entire church period. That said, we are currently still in the “what is now” part of what John was told to write, i.e. we are still in the church period.

Then John was told to write “what will take place later” which is synonymous with Rev.4:1 which says, “come up here and I will show you what must take place after this” i.e. what must take place after the “what is now” or after the church period. Since the “what is now” is still in process, then the “what must take place later” will not begin until after the church period has ended making Rev.4 onward all future events.

There are those who say that the gathering of the church is not mentioned in Revelation, but I disagree. I believe that the “what must take place later” is what takes place after the church has been gathered, which is followed by the time of God’s wrath represented by the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.

In support of this, we have the voice that sounds like a trumpet which is identified as being the voice of the Lord Jesus in Rev.1:10. Therefore, the voice that sounds like a trumpet which says “come up here” is the voice of the Lord.

Regarding this voice, I believe that this is significant in that it is synonymous with the “trumpet call of God” found in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 in Paul’s description of the gathering of the church.

In addition, from chapter 1 thru 3 in Revelation we have the word Ekklesia translated church used 18 times througout those chapters. And within those same chapters we do not see the word Hagios translated Saints. Likewise from chapter 4 onward we have only the word Hagios/saints used, but the word Ekklesia/church is no longer found in the narrative.. This is significant in that here in Rev.4:1 we have that voice that sounds like a trumpet saying “come up here.”

I believe that John being called up here, which begins the “what must take place later” is a prophetic allustion to the church being gathered, which is why we don’t see the word church appear in the narrative from this point forward. The next time the church is alluded to is in Rev.19:6-8 as the bride, with the actual word not appearing again until Rev.22:16.

My point here is that, you have the three chapters where only the word Ekklesia/Church is being used combined with the absence of the word Hagios/Saints. Then from chapter 4 onward you have the word Hagios/Saints used only, with the word Ekklesia/church being completely absent. It’s either an amazing coincidence or a clue from God that the absence of the word infers that the church is no longer on the earth from that time forward.

Now, if both the words church and saint were used interchangeably throughhout the entire book of Revelation then I would not even be drawing attention to this because it would be a non issue. It is because there is a segregation of usage between these two words with the word church being used exclusively throughout chapters 1 thu 3 and then disappering from the rest of the chapters that tells me something has taken place. Somehtiing has changed. If the word Ekklesia/church was even found one time after chapter 4 and during the narrative of God’s wrath, again this would be a non issue.

“At once I was in the Spirit, and behold a throne stood in heaven, with one seated on the throne. And he who sat there had the appearance of jasper and carnelian, and around the throne was a rainbow that had the appearance of an emerald.”

In Rev.1:10 John states that he was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day and then he says it again here in Rev.4:1 after the voice that sounds like a trumpet says “come up here” he then says that he was immediately in the Spirit. The first reference to John being in the Spirit in Rev.1:10 was in reference to him mediating on God and his word being filled with the presence of the Holy Spirit. Where the second reference is him appearing to be, or literally transformed into a spiritual state being in heaven where he was shown the events that must soon take place. Otherwise, since he said that he was already in the Spirit in Rev.1:10, why would he say it again if he was speaking of being in the same state? It would have to infer a different meaning of being in the Spirit.

It is easy to deduce that the One who is seated on the throne is none other than God the Father. We know this because in Rev.5:7 we read that the Lamb, which is another designation for Jesus, takes the scroll from the right hand of the One who is sitting on the throne. That said, I doubt very much that Jesus is both sitting on the throne and also taking the scroll from his own hand. Therefore, it must be God the Father sitting on the throne of whom the Lamb is taking the scroll from.

The scroll contains the events of God’s wrath and all realated information. We know this because the first thing that we read from the scoll, is the Lamb opening the 1st seal, as revealed in Rev.6:1

“Around the throne were twenty-four thrones, and seated on the thrones were twenty-four elders, clothed in white garments, with golden crowns on their heads.

In Rev.21:12, we are told that that the New Jerusalem has twelve gates each made from a single pearl and that the names of the twelve tribes of Israel are written on the each of the twelve gates. Likewise, in Rev.21:14 we are told that the New Jeruslaem has twelve foundations each made from precious gems with the names of the twelve apostles written on the each of the foundations. Therefore I believe that twelve of the elders are representing Israel and twelve are representing the church, which would also demonstrate that the church is already in heaven.

The elders are wearing the white garments and the victor’s crowns that are promised to those who are victorious, as found in the promise to the church of Sardis, Smyrna and Laodicea as found in Rev.2:10, .3:4-5 and 3:11, 18.

From the throne came flashes of lightning, and rumblingsa and peals of thunder, and before the throne were burning seven torches of fire, which are the seven spirits of God, and before the throne there was as it were a sea of glass, like crystal.”

The reference to “flashes of lightning, rumblings and thunder” is also found in Rev.8:5, 11:19 and 16:18.

Regarding the occurance here in Rev.4:5 there does not appear to be any event associated with it.

The occurance in Rev.8:5 takes place after the angel takes fire from the altar and hurls it to the earth and prior to the first trumpet being sounded, with the additon of an earthquake.

The occrance in Rev.11:19 is in response to God’s temple in heaven being opened and the ark of his covenant being seen, with the addition of hail.

The occrance in Rev.16:12 takes place as a result of the seventh bowl being poured out which comepletes God’s wrath.

Previously in Rev.1:4, we are introduced to the seven spirits or seven fold spirits of God with grace and peace bestowed from them to the reader and also mentioned in the intorducton to the church of Sardis with Jesus as the one who holds the seven spirits of God. Also referred to in Rev.5:6 as the seven horns and seven eyes symbolcally representing the seven fold spirit of God sent out into all the earth.

“And before the throne was something like a sea of glass, like crystal.

This area that John describes before the throne as looking like a sea of glass is also mentioned in Rev.15:2, except in this description it is mixed with fire. In Ezekiel’s vision of the throne and the Cherub, I believe that he also saw this sea of glass, referring to it as an “icy expanse.” Otherwise what it is or its purpose is unknown.

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Updated 2 Weeks Ago at 02:40 AM by Ahwatukee

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  1. Desertsrose's Avatar
    Hi Ahwatukee,

    Great commentary! Do you mind if I copy this from here to paste it in a document so that I can read it again and again. It's a lot to take in at one sitting. Lots to think about! And lots of cross referencing to do.

    Thanks again for your willingness to do this! It is much appreciated!
  2. Ahwatukee's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Desertsrose
    Hi Ahwatukee,

    Great commentary! Do you mind if I copy this from here to paste it in a document so that I can read it again and again. It's a lot to take in at one sitting. Lots to think about! And lots of cross referencing to do.

    Thanks again for your willingness to do this! It is much appreciated!
    Hello Desertsrose! Haven't seen you out on line lately or maybe I just missed you. Of course you can copy the blog, any of them. Be my guest.

    Yeah, there is a lot to take into consideration regarding Rev.4:1-2 and the allusion to the gathering of the church. Another example would be the abomination spoken of in Dan.9:27 and quoted by Jesus in Matt.24:15. Since the setting up of the abomination is an event that will take place during that last seven years you'd think that it would be mentioned in Revelation somewhere, since Revelation is mostly about end time events. Well I believe that it is, but it's just camouflaged. You don't see the word abomination used in Revelation, but you do have a good description of it as being the image of the beast in Rev.13:14-15. There are just some things that God hides, camouflages or masks that are just under the surface of his word. Kind of like a spiritual nudge and Rev.4:1 is one of them. Next we'll go into detail regarding these angelic class of beings that John calls "four living creatures" and referred to as cherubim (ker-oob )by Ezekiel and as Seraphs by Isaiah.

    Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.

    Have a blessed day!
    Desertsrose likes this.
    Updated 2 Weeks Ago at 02:47 AM by Ahwatukee
  3. Desertsrose's Avatar
    Thanks Ahwatukee,

    My husband's been sick and in emergency. Looks like he'll need his gallbladder out. We'll find out this week. That's why I've been missing in action.

    Thanks for your comment and I agree - just as Jesus is all over the OT and yet He was shrouded in mystery, so too I believe that we don't have the full picture of our Lord's return.

    But we do have many of the pieces we can put into place if we allow the Spirit to lead and guide us. Not just mind knowledge, but true knowledge of the Spirit.

    I see you've added part 2 so I'll go and read that as well before I sign off. GBY!