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Deade

THE STATE OF THE DEAD

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by , 3 Days Ago at 01:25 AM (50 Views)
Now I will bring up the state of the dead. I will probably lose many Christians at this point, but I don’t write to please people. Are our dead forefathers, and other loved ones, dwelling in “heaven” at this time? Jesus said: “And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven” (John 3:13). But many say that Christ opened the graves after the crucifixion. I point you to the faith chapter of Hebrews 11. It tells us of how the patriarchs of old have not ascended to heaven. “And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.” (Hebrews 11:39,40). Mind you, this was written after the crucifixion. I urge you to also read the whole chapter of I Corinthians 15, but note especially the following verses: “But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His coming(I Corinthians 15:20-23). Also consider the following: “But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent [Gr. precede] them which are asleep. But every man in his own order; Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at His coming: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: And so shall we ever be with the Lord” (I Thessalonians 4:13-17). So are our loved ones already with Christ? If they have to be resurrected at His coming—they must not be. I believe our lost loved ones are asleep; they have no awareness of time. Somehow God preserves our spirits for a future resurrection. We don’t know exactly how He does this, but we don’t know many things.

Some believe that if we meet the Lord in the air, that we will ever be in the air or heaven. The Bible doesn’t say that, it says we will ever be with the Lord. Remember, heaven is wherever God is. Once we meet the Lord we shall return to the earth: “And they sung a new song, saying, thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof; for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; and hast made us unto our God kings and priests; and we shall reign on the earth” (Revelation 5:9,10). Even though we are on the earth, we will be in the heavenly realm. We will be spirits, just as God is.

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  1. Ahwatukee's Avatar
    Hello Deade,

    Jesus said: “And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven” (John 3:13)
    Regarding the scripture above, Jesus, while speaking to Nicodemus ,was saying that no one has ascended up into heaven in their resurrected bodies, which is what Jesus would eventually do, as he was and is the first fruits of the resurrection.

    When coming to a conclusion regarding the word of God, we must look at the entire context and cross-reference and compare scripture if need be. That being said, we have other scriptures like 2 Cor.5:6 and Phil.1:23, which tell us that when the body dies the spirit departs and goes to be in the presence of the Lord.

    In addition to this, we have examples in scripture that demonstrate conscious awareness of the soul/spirit after death, such as Moses and Elijah appearing with Christ when he was transfigured, Jesus telling the man crucified next to him that he would be with him in paradise that very day. We have the event of the rich man and Lazarus, two men who died and were buried with their spirits being in Sheol/Hades. We have the souls of those who will have died at the hands of men on the earth under the altar in heaven having a conversation with the Lord and who are given white robes to wear.

    For the believer, at the time of death, the spirit departs and goes immediately to be in the presence of the Lord, where they are looking forward to the resurrection from that side, while we wait from this side. For the unbeliever, their spirit departs and goes into Sheol/Hades in torment where they will remain until the great white throne judgment.

    Your error is confusing the spirit from the resurrection, which has to do with the spirit returning to the immortal and glorified body. There is no such thing as soul sleep. The resurrection always refers to the body standing up again, which is the definition of anastasia translated resurrection.

    Some believe that if we meet the Lord in the air, that we will ever be in the air or heaven. The Bible doesn’t say that, it says we will ever be with the Lord. Remember, heaven is wherever God is. Once we meet the Lord we shall return to the earth:


    According to the gathering of the church, we have a promise from the Lord in John 14:1-3 that he went to prepare dwelling places for us in the Father's house. Heaven is not wherever the Lord is, but is God's heavenly dwelling place. The detailed account of our gathering is found in 1 Thes.4:13-18 where it states that the dead will be resurrected in their immortal and glorified bodies, where immediately after that, the living in Christ will be changed in one moment, with the entire church meeting the Lord in the air. While there we will be judged at the Bema seat of Christ (2 Cor.5:10) and will also attend the wedding of the Lamb where the bride will receive her fine linen. Following that and at the end of that seven years, the Lord will descend to the earth to end the age and the church will follow behind him riding on white horses (Rev.19:6-8, 14)

    Once we return to the earth with the Lord, we will rule with him during the millennial period.
    Updated 3 Days Ago at 02:40 AM by Ahwatukee
  2. Deade's Avatar
    Hello Ahwatukee,

    You said: "That being said, we have other scriptures like 2 Cor.5:6 and Phil.1:23, which tell us that when the body dies the spirit departs and goes to be in the presence of the Lord." I always assumed that we have no awareness of time while sleeping. So in our mind we will be immediately with the Lord upon dying.

    You speak of the transfiguration as proof of Moses and Elijah already resurrected. No, that was just a vision. Nothing to draw doctrine on. Jesus told the thief: "I say unto you, today you will be with me in paradise." There was no punctuation in the original Greek and I believe the comma was put in the wrong place. It should read: "I say unto you today, you will be with me in paradise." See it changes the meaning.

    As far as our differences about the rapture and the second coming of Christ, they are so far apart I will not address that here.

    Yours, Deade