Can a person be both Liberal and Christian?

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K

kaylagrl

Guest
#21
I consider myself to be a liberal Christian, and I certainly don't support gay marriage, abortion or euthenasia, (which just became a big issue in Canada). I have fought steadily against these things, especially the wanton killing of the unborn and elderly, because they are supposedly "unwanted."

What my issue is with conservatives, is that they don't care about the poor, which is what the gospel is all about. When Jesus declared himself in the temple, he read from Isaiah 61:1

"18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me,
because he has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives
and recovering of sight to the blind,
to set at liberty those who are oppressed," Luke 4:18


He did not come to make the rich, richer! He did not come to have millions of people die because they couldn't afford health care. (Tommy Douglas, who inititated universal health care in Canada, watched his father die, because the family could not afford a doctor!)

The Old Testament is full of prophets who condemned Israel for not taking care of the poor.

"4 Hear this, you who trample on the needy
and bring the poor of the land to an end,
5 saying, “When will the new moon be over,
that we may sell grain?...
that we may buy the poor for silver
and the needy for a pair of sandals
and sell the chaff of the wheat?” Amos 8:4, 5a, 6.


What do people here think JUSTICE is about?

"8 He has told you, O man, what is good;
and what does the Lord require of you
but to do justice, and to love kindness,
and to walk humbly with your God?" Micah 6:8


It is about caring for the poor, and that is a liberal agenda, if ever there was one. It grieves me so much when I see my American brothers and sisters focusing on side issues, when the real issue is taking the gospel to the poor of every sort, which means living with them, among them and giving our lives for them.

This is not about some communist or even socialist agenda, but rather Christians righting the wrongs of greed, and unbridled capitalism, whereby those who have been given less are not just helped by Christians, but the injustices righted!

I just don't see that in your conservative agenda.


I thought Bethune was credited with the Canadian health care system? Sure I learned that in school.Anyhow you and I usually agree but I am conservative and vote that way.I care very much about the poor.That being said I dont think people should be on gov't support cradle to grave unless they are unable to work,disability etc. I find,down here at least,that gov't is throwing away money on people who dont deserve it along with those that do.Just a quick story...A girlfriend I had when I was younger friended me on FB. Sweet girl,great parents,well brought up.I made a comment on FB about people living off the gov't.She sent me a private message saying I had hurt her with what I had said.She had a child and because of abuse had to divorce.Then she said "why cant I have cable tv and a cell phone? Dont I deserve to have a vacation,or have a beer?And yes I got a tattoo,thats no ones business."I was totally shocked! I just apologized for upsetting her and left it at that. So when it comes to govt support I think there needs to be a tight reign on that. And yes you should have to take a drug test IMO.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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#22
Woe! I think Bethune has a movie done after him. You really learned wrong about who started Canadian Medicare.

Tommy Douglas, the Father of Canadian Health Care, was a Baptist minister who campaigned tirelessly for the poor and the downtrodden and completely changed the political landscape of Canada, by being leader of the NDP and holding the balance of power for many years in Parliament, pushing through legislation which all Canadians, left and right are proud of.

Tommy Douglas was voted the most outstanding Canadian in the history of our country, which tells you how much we value our universal health care, pensions and other things he initiated.

Thomas Clement "Tommy" Douglas, PC CC SOM (20 October 1904 – 24 February 1986) was a Scottish-born Canadian social democratic politician and Baptist minister. He was elected to the Canadian House of Commons in 1935 as a member of the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation(CCF). He left federal politics to become the Saskatchewan CCF's leader and then the seventh Premier of Saskatchewan from 1944 to 1961. His government was the first democratic socialist government in North America, and it introduced the continent's first single-payer, universal health care program.
After setting up Saskatchewan's medicare program, Douglas stepped down as premier and ran to lead the newly formed federal New Democratic Party (NDP), the successor party of the National CCF. Douglas was elected as its first federal leader in 1961.
Although Douglas never led the party to government, through much of his tenure, the party held the balance of power in the House of Commons. He was noted as being the main opposition to the imposition of the War Measures Act during the 1970 October Crisis. He resigned as leader the next year, but remained as a Member of Parliament until 1979. He was awarded many honorary degrees, and a foundation was named for him and his political mentor Major James Coldwell during 1971. In 1981, he was invested into the Order of Canada; and became a member of Canada's Privy Council in 1984. He died in 1986 after a battle with cancer.
In 2004, a CBC Television program named Tommy Douglas "The Greatest Canadian", based on a Canada-wide, viewer-supported survey..

Tommy Douglas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As for your friend, don't confuse entitlement with poverty. Your friend sounds like she needs to learn some money managing skills, and drop the attitude! Sadly, too many people these days, including the wealthy, think they are entitled to things they really cannot afford. They don't live within their means. That is why our countries have such a debt problem, and it is as much the rich as the poor, and probably the rich contribute more, to the debt, because they want more. They just seem to get away with it more easily.

I grew up fairly well to do, but my parents lived in the Depression, and they paid cash for everything, including their homes. I learned to live within a budget, and my husband, who came from a similar background also did. We are doing well these days in retirement, even though I haven't worked in years because of my health issues (just a small amount of disability) and my husbands was blue collar. We only spent when we had the money, and if that meant me going without new clothes and wearing basically rags, I did!

Besides, you should never base your beliefs on one or even a hundred anecdotal stories. I have American friends who are poor and struggle terribly just to put food on the table, let alone pay the copay on their prescriptions. But that is anecdotal too! We really need to look at how people are struggling, like your divorced single mom, friend, and rather than judging her, find a way you can support her in non-monetary ways, and show her how to live within her means! (If possible!) And love her!
 
K

keepitsimple

Guest
#23
I suppose anythings possible with God. Besides ... liberals are p...p...p...p...p...p...p...people too. Boy ... that was hard :cool:
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#24
Woe! I think Bethune has a movie done after him. You really learned wrong about who started Canadian Medicare.

Tommy Douglas, the Father of Canadian Health Care, was a Baptist minister who campaigned tirelessly for the poor and the downtrodden and completely changed the political landscape of Canada, by being leader of the NDP and holding the balance of power for many years in Parliament, pushing through legislation which all Canadians, left and right are proud of.

Tommy Douglas was voted the most outstanding Canadian in the history of our country, which tells you how much we value our universal health care, pensions and other things he initiated.

Thomas Clement "Tommy" Douglas, PC CC SOM (20 October 1904 – 24 February 1986) was a Scottish-born Canadian social democratic politician and Baptist minister. He was elected to the Canadian House of Commons in 1935 as a member of the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation(CCF). He left federal politics to become the Saskatchewan CCF's leader and then the seventh Premier of Saskatchewan from 1944 to 1961. His government was the first democratic socialist government in North America, and it introduced the continent's first single-payer, universal health care program.
After setting up Saskatchewan's medicare program, Douglas stepped down as premier and ran to lead the newly formed federal New Democratic Party (NDP), the successor party of the National CCF. Douglas was elected as its first federal leader in 1961.
Although Douglas never led the party to government, through much of his tenure, the party held the balance of power in the House of Commons. He was noted as being the main opposition to the imposition of the War Measures Act during the 1970 October Crisis. He resigned as leader the next year, but remained as a Member of Parliament until 1979. He was awarded many honorary degrees, and a foundation was named for him and his political mentor Major James Coldwell during 1971. In 1981, he was invested into the Order of Canada; and became a member of Canada's Privy Council in 1984. He died in 1986 after a battle with cancer.
In 2004, a CBC Television program named Tommy Douglas "The Greatest Canadian", based on a Canada-wide, viewer-supported survey..

Tommy Douglas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As for your friend, don't confuse entitlement with poverty. Your friend sounds like she needs to learn some money managing skills, and drop the attitude! Sadly, too many people these days, including the wealthy, think they are entitled to things they really cannot afford. They don't live within their means. That is why our countries have such a debt problem, and it is as much the rich as the poor, and probably the rich contribute more, to the debt, because they want more. They just seem to get away with it more easily.

I grew up fairly well to do, but my parents lived in the Depression, and they paid cash for everything, including their homes. I learned to live within a budget, and my husband, who came from a similar background also did. We are doing well these days in retirement, even though I haven't worked in years because of my health issues (just a small amount of disability) and my husbands was blue collar. We only spent when we had the money, and if that meant me going without new clothes and wearing basically rags, I did!

Besides, you should never base your beliefs on one or even a hundred anecdotal stories. I have American friends who are poor and struggle terribly just to put food on the table, let alone pay the copay on their prescriptions. But that is anecdotal too! We really need to look at how people are struggling, like your divorced single mom, friend, and rather than judging her, find a way you can support her in non-monetary ways, and show her how to live within her means! (If possible!) And love her!
Yes there was a movie done on him and he was credited as starting the social healthcare system according to the teacher.Not that Im doubting you but that is what I was taught.I know one person does not create a whole belief system but Im just saying there is a lot of abuse in the system.I believe in a hand up,not a hand out.Unless that person is truly unable to work.Then the gov't support is there for them.
My friend lives too far away for me to help her in any way.And I wasn't judging her I was surprised that she felt entitled to certain things and felt the govt should provide her wants {cable tv} and not her needs like food etc. Shes a single mom because her husband abused her and yes she needed govt help.But certain things are a want and not a need.Not seeing were I judged her anywhere though...
 
Oct 30, 2014
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#25
Not really asking this as a debate question or argument starter in any way. I'm just curious how a paradox like that (a Liberal Christian) would be possible. The two views are practically irreconcilable, and practically polar opposites. Since this is a Family Forum, family matters are of interest on here. Two very family-oriented political issues on which Biblical Christianity takes a decidedly Right-Wing view are Abortion and Homosexual Marriage (*No judgement coming from me, I just believe the Bible).

Now regardless of what our personal or political views on these subjects are, there's no denying that the Bible disapproves of both. That said, I have still met vary good Christians in my life who claim to be Liberal. On some levels I think it has to do with them believing that the Left is "more fair and equal" to the underprivileged, the minority, and the lower class. Whether this is true or not, I couldn't tell you. But even supposing that it is, that still doesn't excuse a Christian becoming a member with the party that started the KKK (*Democratic, happened circa the Civil War era) and supporting the murder of children while promoting sexual perversion...

Again, this is not a debate thread for discussing whether Abortion/Homosexuality are wrong. Let's assume that since most of us on here are Christians, we already stand with the Bible on these issues, and now we can ask the real question... Is it possible for a real Liberal to be a real Christian without living in hypocrisy for their political view?
I think a person can live their life under certain rules (not being gay, not getting married to a member of the same sex, not ''forcnicating' or having sex before marriage, not having an angry demeanour, working for self betterment and a good temperament) and under certain beliefs (it is wrong for me to be gay, wrong for me to get married to the opposite sex, wrong for me to get belligerently drunk etc etc) without being against the right of others to live their lives differently.

As a liberal, I defend the right of gay people to get married, I defend the right of people to choose their sexuality, I defend the right of people to have consensual sex outside marriage, but I don't have to believe these are the best things for my own personal life choices in order to do so.

I'm a liberal in that I want people to be able to make their own choices to a degree beyond what I see a lot of conservatives are willing to allow. I'd like people to be able to be gay without social exclusion or legal penalty. I'd like people to be able to choose to be married or single, to have sex outside marriage or not, without facing social exclusion or legal penalty.

However, I'm not gay, I won't marry a member of the opposite sex and so far as my own life, I live it in different ways than others live theirs.
 
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Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,780
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#26
Yes there was a movie done on him and he was credited as starting the social healthcare system according to the teacher.Not that Im doubting you but that is what I was taught.I know one person does not create a whole belief system but Im just saying there is a lot of abuse in the system.I believe in a hand up,not a hand out.Unless that person is truly unable to work.Then the gov't support is there for them.
My friend lives too far away for me to help her in any way.And I wasn't judging her I was surprised that she felt entitled to certain things and felt the govt should provide her wants {cable tv} and not her needs like food etc. Shes a single mom because her husband abused her and yes she needed govt help.But certain things are a want and not a need.Not seeing were I judged her anywhere though...
Not in any way was Norman Bethune involved with established Canadian Health Care. Considering he died in 1939, universal health care didn't come in until the 1966, over 30 years later. Your Canadian history is wrong! Trust me, I'm a Canadian!


"Henry Norman Bethune (last name pronounced Baythun) /ˈbɛθˌjn/(March 4, 1890 – November 12, 1939; Chinese: 白求恩; pinyin: Bái Qiúēn) was a Canadianphysician, medical innovator, and noted anti-fascist. Bethune came to international prominence first for his service as a frontline surgeon supporting the democratically-elected Republican government during the Spanish Civil War. But it was his service with the Communist Eighth Route Army (Ba Lu Jun) during the Second Sino-Japanese War that would earn him enduring acclaim. Dr. Bethune effectively brought modern medicine to rural China and often treated sick villagers as much as wounded soldiers. His selfless commitment to the Chinese people made such an impression on Mao Zedong that generations of Chinese students were required to memorise the Chairman's eulogy to him."

Norman Bethune - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Medical Care Act

The programs in Saskatchewan and Alberta proved a success and the federal government of Lester B. Pearson introduced the Medical Care Act in 1966 that extended the HIDS Act cost-sharing to allow each province to establish a universal health care plan -an initiative that was drafted and initiated by the Liberal party and supported by the New Democratic Party (NDP). It also set up the Medicare system. In 1984, the Canada Health Act was passed under a majority Liberal government, which prohibited user fees and extra billing by doctors. In 1999, Prime Minister Jean Chrétien and most premiers reaffirmed in the Social Union Framework Agreement that they are committed to health care that has "comprehensiveness, universality, portability, public administration and accessibility."

Health care in Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tommy Douglas, who first brought universa health care into Saskatchewan as the premier, then ran for Parliament as the leader of the NDP party, and pushed Lester B Pearson into passing the first law requiring universal coverage.

Besides, I remember it coming in 1966, one year before our centenary.
 
Jan 24, 2009
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#27
I think a person can live their life under certain rules (not being gay, not getting married to a member of the same sex, not ''forcnicating' or having sex before marriage, not having an angry demeanour, working for self betterment and a good temperament) and under certain beliefs (it is wrong for me to be gay, wrong for me to get married to the opposite sex, wrong for me to get belligerently drunk etc etc) without being against the right of others to live their lives differently.

As a liberal, I defend the right of gay people to get married, I defend the right of people to choose their sexuality, I defend the right of people to have consensual sex outside marriage, but I don't have to believe these are the best things for my own personal life choices in order to do so.

I'm a liberal in that I want people to be able to make their own choices to a degree beyond what I see a lot of conservatives are willing to allow. I'd like people to be able to be gay without social exclusion or legal penalty. I'd like people to be able to choose to be married or single, to have sex outside marriage or not, without facing social exclusion or legal penalty.

However, I'm not gay, I won't marry a member of the opposite sex and so far as my own life, I live it in different ways than others live theirs.
Your post is entirely void of the word "Christian". In the OP, putting the word Liberal and Christian together was labeled as a paradox.

Your comments/views about marriage and sex fit right in with liberalism and in opposition to Christianity.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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#28
Not really asking this as a debate question or argument starter in any way. I'm just curious how a paradox like that (a Liberal Christian) would be possible. The two views are practically irreconcilable, and practically polar opposites. Since this is a Family Forum, family matters are of interest on here. Two very family-oriented political issues on which Biblical Christianity takes a decidedly Right-Wing view are Abortion and Homosexual Marriage (*No judgement coming from me, I just believe the Bible).

Now regardless of what our personal or political views on these subjects are, there's no denying that the Bible disapproves of both. That said, I have still met vary good Christians in my life who claim to be Liberal. On some levels I think it has to do with them believing that the Left is "more fair and equal" to the underprivileged, the minority, and the lower class. Whether this is true or not, I couldn't tell you. But even supposing that it is, that still doesn't excuse a Christian becoming a member with the party that started the KKK (*Democratic, happened circa the Civil War era) and supporting the murder of children while promoting sexual perversion...

Again, this is not a debate thread for discussing whether Abortion/Homosexuality are wrong. Let's assume that since most of us on here are Christians, we already stand with the Bible on these issues, and now we can ask the real question... Is it possible for a real Liberal to be a real Christian without living in hypocrisy for their political view?
Elijah19,

There are two distinctly different meanings of 'Liberal': One is the opposite of conservative; and the other is the opposite of stingy. IMO a true believer will not stand in opposition to God's Word; but, nothing precludes his/her being generous!
 
Oct 30, 2014
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#29
Your post is entirely void of the word "Christian". In the OP, putting the word Liberal and Christian together was labeled as a paradox.

Your comments/views about marriage and sex fit right in with liberalism and in opposition to Christianity.
Is Christianity opposed to the right of people to make their own choice to follow its premises or to not follow them? Is it ''Christian'' to not ​allow other people to make the choice to follow Christian instructions or not?
 
Oct 30, 2014
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#30
In fact, as I remember, Christians are instructed ''whosoever will not receive you, when you go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them''.

Christianity is, as far as I can tell, supposed to be attractive as a way of living ones life -- accepted by choice -- not coercive as a way of forcing Christian morality on all people.
 
Jan 24, 2009
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#31
Is Christianity opposed to the right of people to make their own choice to follow its premises or to not follow them? Is it ''Christian'' to not ​allow other people to make the choice to follow Christian instructions or not?
Ya know, you could have at least mentioned your observations of Christians when it comes to Liberalism.

Is it really that difficult?
 

skipp

Senior Member
Mar 6, 2014
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#32
It's interesting when you look at the younger generation of conservatives. Many of the Millennials who consider themselves conservatives have a strong libertarian streak and aren't all that interested in Christian social issues. I think in a couple of decades political conservatism will completely shift away from Christian issues altogether.

As a Christian I hold deeply conservative views on social issues like gay marriage, traditional family values, abortion, etc, but my views on issues like healthcare reform and economics tend to be more liberal. As a result I'm never happy with any candidate and I heartily dislike both political parties.
 
Jan 24, 2009
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#33
Not really asking this as a debate question or argument starter in any way. I'm just curious how a paradox like that (a Liberal Christian) would be possible. The two views are practically irreconcilable, and practically polar opposites. Since this is a Family Forum, family matters are of interest on here. Two very family-oriented political issues on which Biblical Christianity takes a decidedly Right-Wing view are Abortion and Homosexual Marriage (*No judgement coming from me, I just believe the Bible).

I think it's more accurate to say that Liberal "Christians" take a anti-Biblical view on these issues rather than suggesting Biblical Christianity is "right-wing". For one thing, Biblical Christianity predates our modern definitions of Liberal("left wing") and Conservative("right wing"). Secondly, Biblical Christianity doesn't "take sides"; it's a way of life. It is the standard. People either agree with Biblical Christianity or are against it. Another issue at hand is that conservative/liberal viewpoints aren't universal regardless of what country one lives in. In other words, what may be considered a liberal viewpoint in the USA isn't necessarily considered a liberal viewpoint in another country.

Two very family-oriented political issues on which Biblical Christianity takes a decidedly Right-Wing view [is] Abortion When it comes to Liberal "Christians" in the USA and abortion, it is interesting how it's suddenly wrong to impose values on others. Somehow, the act of abortion(the cuttings, pulling, tearing apart, twisting, and sucking out actions on a defenseless unborn human) isn't imposing one's values/views on another. If we're talking about something such as poverty or sickness, though, it is perfectly fine to impose one's values on everyone.

Two very family-oriented political issues on which Biblical Christianity takes a decidedly Right-Wing view [is]...Homosexual Marriage On the issue of same-sex "marriage", Liberal "Christians" in the USA seem to fall into 2 categories. One group cherry-picks the Bible and tosses out the verses that speak of homosexuality. These verses are among the parts of the Bible that are out-dated and irrelevant. The other group of Liberal "Christians" tells us that we've been misinterpreting the Bible on marriage for the last 2,000 years. There is, in their view, no rule against marrying someone of the same gender. Unfortunately, a lot of churches are falling to this idea.

Regardless of whether we are talking about abortion or fake marriage(my terminology, as I reject anything outside of traditional marriage as true marriage), liberalism supports both. If a person claims to be a Liberal as well as pro-life and/or only in favor of traditional marriage, that person is not taking a liberal(as the word are defined in the USA) viewpoint on those issues.



Now regardless of what our personal or political views on these subjects are, there's no denying that the Bible disapproves of both. That said, I have still met vary good Christians in my life who claim to be Liberal. On some levels I think it has to do with them believing that the Left is "more fair and equal" to the underprivileged, the minority, and the lower class. Whether this is true or not, I couldn't tell you. But even supposing that it is, that still doesn't excuse a Christian becoming a member with the party that started the KKK (*Democratic, happened circa the Civil War era) and supporting the murder of children while promoting sexual perversion...

That said, I have still met vary good Christians in my life who claim to be Liberal. Liberal "Christians" in the USA are happy to pull out the Bible and point fingers when it comes to about two or three issues. Poverty and equality are a couple top issues. There is an ongoing assault by Liberals on the job creators and those who have money. It's not fair that they have money. They cheated a lot of people to get it. Rich people should be giving away all their money and redistributing their wealth. The rich, in the Liberal "Christian"'s mind, don't pay enough in taxes and don't pay their staff "living wages". A burger flipping job, in their view, ought to draw enough income to sustain a family of five(or more).

Interestingly, those who are whining are often Hollywood Actors/Actresses or Washington Politicians - all multimillionaires - who do next to nothing but blow hot air.

Christian Conservatives are about enabling those who are less fortunate as much as possible. Instead of excessive handouts(fish), we prefer to enable them to sustain themselves(teach them how to fish). Dependency breeds more dependency and doesn't build confidence or competence. We've spent tens of trillions of dollars in the war against poverty, and poverty is still a major issue.

On some levels I think it has to do with them believing that the Left is "more fair and equal" to the underprivileged, the minority, and the lower class. As a single, I've long immediately rejected as being "dating material" any woman who has labeled herself as liberal or somewhat liberal. What I have found, though, is that some mislabel themselves as liberal because they have compassion about 1 or 2 items that Liberals are more vocal about.

I've noticed, for example, that some are entirely socially and economically conservative, yet have seen or been heavily involved with people in poverty. These women have been led to believe that Conservatives don't care about the poor and think they have to be liberal because only Liberals do care about the poor.

Another issue where this happens is healthcare/medicine. Some women think Conservatives want the elderly and the sick to die because they reject ObamaDoesntCare and think that only Liberals do care. Conservatives don't like ObamaDoesntCare, so they want people to die of cancer. Conservatives don't like ObamaDoesntCare, so they don't want seniors and the elderly to get the medications they need. I'm a Conservative. My parents are seniors. I don't want them dead and I am an opponent of ObamaDoesntCare.



Again, this is not a debate thread for discussing whether Abortion/Homosexuality are wrong. Let's assume that since most of us on here are Christians, we already stand with the Bible on these issues, and now we can ask the real question... Is it possible for a real Liberal to be a real Christian without living in hypocrisy for their political view?

Understand that liberalism takes on the definition of being free. In the case of Liberal "Christianity" in the USA, it means freedom from Christianity, cherry-picking Scripture, reinterpreting Scripture, or becoming a part-time Christian because you are to leave your Christianity at home. Scripture is really only useful with a few choice issues...namely poverty and welfare programs, denouncing capital punishment, and denouncing war(in favor of surrendering?). The rest of the time Scripture is archaic/outdated, being misinterpreted by Conservatives/Right-wingers, or Christianity needs to be left at home because of the fictitious "separation of church and state".
 

Truthseer

Junior Member
Aug 31, 2016
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#34
I person can be both a little bit liberal and a Christian at the same time. But I don't think a person can be extremely liberal and Christian. Liberalism started along with atheism at the same time America was founded as a Satanic reaction against the new country founded on rights derived from the Law of Moses. All of the beliefs of liberalism are deceptive principles intended to subvert and frustrate individual rights and freedom of religion, and as we have seen recently, work against everything that is right and decent. No one claiming Christianity can honestly support people like Obama and Hillary Clinton.
 

peacenik

Senior Member
May 11, 2016
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#37
CharlieGrown; said:
The definition for "Liberal" has changed quite a bit in the last 2000 years.


But Jesus's principles have not and that's why libs proclaim him as one of their own and as their biggest inspiration.
 
C

CharlieGrown

Guest
#38
But Jesus's principles have not and that's why libs proclaim him as one of their own and as their biggest inspiration.
Please don't make me hold up the dems policies next to those of Jesus. The fatigue level for schooling the lack of common sense is more than a simpleton like me can bear.
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
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#39
Yes, but it wouldn't be a Christian who has broken the grid to paraphrase Nancy Pearcey.
 

peacenik

Senior Member
May 11, 2016
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#40
Please don't make me hold up the dems policies next to those of Jesus. The fatigue level for schooling the lack of common sense is more than a simpleton like me can bear.

Would you prefer to hold up the repub policies next to those of Jesus? Which ones - their legalization of abortions, their imperialistic terrorism on the Middle East, their enriching of the wealthy at the expense of the poor ??? Only those lacking in even the slightest degree of common sense would do that. Right wingers may think they have a right to say Jesus was one of them. He would say "I never even knew ye".