Heartbroken and Filing for divorce

Angela53510 · Feb 28, 2015

It's not a kind and gentle side! It's a honeymoon period to suck you back in. You obviously didn't read the link I gave you on the Cycle of Abuse. You really have to understand that is part of the abuse - reeling you back in, so he can exert power and control again by abusing you.

Don't get sucked in. Keep a journal, mark down the phases and you will see how it is a cycle that repeats itself over and over. No change, just you a mouse on a wheel, with him spinning you forever!

presidente · Feb 28, 2015

blue_ladybug said:

This is feminist domestic violence shelter rhetoric right here. It's not consistent with the Gospel, either, since if any man be in Christ, he is a new creation. Also, believers who have sinful areas in their lives and can repent, and the Lord can transform them.

Just from a secular perspective, it isn't true either. Even unbelievers can improve their behavior over time through various means, counseling, conditioning, etc.

What you say about the man could be true. Or it could just be your imagination. You could be projecting the Duluth model, about a man who killed his family, on a man who has some regular anger issues and a lower standard of hygiene (dog poop). The fact that you believed the dog poop was wiped in her face shows how much your imagination goes into this. You probably imagine him acting a certain way.

I know people say that if a spouse is abusive, the other spouse could end up dead, so they'd better get out. The feminist DV philosophy can break up a lot of marriages. For the 1 out of hundreds of thousands (stat made up on the spot) of women in a marriage where the husband gets angry and calls her the 'b-word' who does kill or injure his wife, what about the millions who don't? This kind of philosophy about abuse can break up a lot of marriages and leave kids without parents.

It's also unrealistic to think that if a man has some anger issues and did a few aggressive things to assumes it's going to escalate to some violence that causes real physical harm. That's the feminist DV center philosophy, but what is the evidence that this is true?

There are lots of marriages that fit that 'abuse cycle' you showed on the website where the problem is not a monster abuser who is never going to change. That seems to describe a lot of relationships. The couple could be getting along, and one time the husband could say something that creates tension and leads to conflict. Another time the wife could do it. Some of the DV center literature leads women to blame their husbands for all their marital problems, paint him as a monster who can't change. The counselors say leave your husband.

I do understand someone leaving when they are in real danger. I can understand why someone wouldn't want to be with someone who threatens their life. But now 'abuse' is expanded to include 'verbal abuse'. Some of the models of abuse on feminist websites classify behaviors that don't fit into a feminist ideal of marriage as 'abuse.' Not giving one's wife money when she asks is seen as part of an abuse cycle. Quoting scripture is seen is abuse. Giving one's wife 'a look' is seen as abuse.

There are plenty of people who did or experienced these sort of bad things earlier in their marriages whose marriages improved after they repented and changed their behavior.

One thing I don't like about this thread is the attitude of 'forget about the Bible. Just go with this advice of mine?" Or "Forget what Jesus and the apostles said. Read this domestic violence website and get out."

Is submitting to a man who has anger issues a sure way to end up dead in the ditch? I don't think so. It could happen, but you could get hit by a bus while leaving the house to get away from your angry husband, too, when you could have stayed alive at home.

I've hear that Augustine's mother was married to an unbeliever who had a reputation for his extreme temper. When she'd talk to other wives, they'd complain about their husbands beating them. But she was so submissive to her husband, he never beat her in spite of his temper. We are probably all glad we don't live in the brutal Roman world of that era. Peter wrote a few centuries before this when he told wives to submit to their husbands, so that if they do not obey the word, they might be won by the chaste conversation of their wives.

If a wife is going to leave her husband to 'send him a message', that can be an unclear thing for a man, too, especially if all he knows is that his wife is upset and left him. Doing this without some kind of counseling set up and without it being clear that it's not a step toward divorce or a license for either party to go find someone else is also a dangerous thing to do.

Jesus said that he that marries her that is divorced commits adultery. The Lord said through Paul, "Let not the wife depart from her husband. But if she departs, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband."

If a man wipes dog poop on his wife's clothes and she divorces him and marries someone else, that's adultery.

If a man hits his wife and she divorces him, and marries someone else, that's adultery.

A wife isn't to leave. If she does, marrying someone else is not an option. If she wants to get her advice from secular sources and based on this wants to move out, separate, or divorce, should she be surprised if he gets his ethics about separation and divorce from other sources and concludes that if his wife leaves him, he is free to find another girlfriend? 'If he treats you badly, move out' is secular ethics, but so is, 'if she leaves you, find another one.' She's trying to 'send him a message' and she pushes him further away from her real objective of improvement and change.

Instead of putting the Bible on the back burner, putting the teachings of Christ on the back burner to do what you think you have to do to protect yourself, why not actually follow what it teaches on the issue? Go to Matthew 18. If your spouse is sinning against you, go get witnesses, then bring him before the church.

I know it's true that a lot of churches totally ignore the many scriptures on church discipline and not keeping company with the professing brother in sin. But that's no excuse for not pursuing it. At least try to get the church involved. Walk in obedience to the Lord instead of assuming it won't work.

A preacher I know was telling me of a church that practiced church discipline. A woman came to the elders and told them that her husband had been, for a long time, trying to get her to do things that weren't right sexually. He didn't give any details, but he said it was perverted. (Let's imagine swinging or something that we'd all agree was wrong for the sake of argument.) He had a big porn problem and his wife had been bothered by it but hadn't shared it with anyone until then.

When the church leaders found out what he was trying to get her to do, they confronted him. Eventually, they stopped keeping company with him as a form of church discipline. Part of this involved the wife and children moving out of the house. After a while, the husband repented and was restored to his family and to fellowship.

The message here is a lot different from just leaving. It's a process to eventually restore the man with his family when he repents, not a message that says, "I'm leaving you. Our marriage is over." It's not a license to date or marry someone else.

presidente · Feb 28, 2015

Angela53510 said:

I find the judgment here disturbing. I'm assuming you have never met the man and you are just reading the thread like I am. And yet you judge his being kind and gentle as trying to 'suck her back in' instead of trying to be kind, trying to get along, or trying to save the marriage? That is the problem with the feminist models that paint the husband's motives in a negative demonic way in this situation. That cycle website fits just as well with couples who go through periods of not getting along as it does abuse.

Especially when you define 'abuse' to include verbal abuse and things that aren't abuse at all, it's going to be easy for a woman to read through this kind of literature, assign all blame for marital problems on her husband, and come away convinced that her husband is evil, abusive, will never change, and that even kindness has an evil motive behind it.

But people can change. And certainly people can change by the power of God through the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

A period of kindness when the other spouse is trying to improve may be a good time to invite the Lord to be more involved in the relationship, to pray together daily, to study the Bible together, to confess sins to one another and ask the Lord to forgive and help in these areas. It may also be a time to get a pastor or a mature Christian couple involved who can coach you on how to get along with each other.

You really have to understand that is part of the abuse - reeling you back in, so he can exert power and control again by abusing you.

Don't get sucked in. Keep a journal, mark down the phases and you will see how it is a cycle that repeats itself over and over. No change, just you a mouse on a wheel, with him spinning you forever![/QUOTE]

Ugly · Feb 28, 2015

Yes, pres, and you're always in favor of supporting abusers, from what i've seen of your posts. Which isn't supported by the Gospel, yet you still strive to defend evil acts in the name of God. Your attitude seems to be women should stick around, get beaten, hospitalized, maybe killed. Because we don't want to offend the poor victim that beats women by providing them consequences or holding them accountable. Sorry, you can rant feminism all you want, but that doesn't change what is.

blue_ladybug · Feb 28, 2015

presidente, I'm not imagining that he wiped dog poop on her.. HE DID..on her chest, not her face, as she stated in a previous post. He is NOT a "new man in Christ", he's far from it, considering he won't go to church, and his behavior certainly isn't christlike.. The OP has tried being submissive..and it got her physically abused. He is a danger to her and her kids. And society in general. Is she supposed to stay with him until he kills her? I don't think so. I'm sure God understands her situation and knows how she feels about all this. No one here has told her to forget the bible, or to take one person's advice over another's. Ultimately the decision is hers whether to stay or leave, and I personally hope she leaves her deranged, physically abusive woman-beater of a husband!!

soccermom19 · Feb 28, 2015

Seems like you have been through a lot. I think divorce is a good idea. I don't say that lightly. Ther are very few reasons I would recommend divorce. An abusive relationship is one of them. Take your child and file for divorce. Stay away from him.
Good luck and God Bless! I will be praying for your family.

tourist · Feb 28, 2015

blue_ladybug said:

ABUSERS NEVER CHANGE THEIR BEHAVIOR! This man has serious issues. Some of you expect her to be submissive to him.. well, I think she HAS been submissive by walking away when he's angry, and trying to defuse his anger. However, she should NOT submit to any further physical and mental abuse from him, because clearly he is deeply troubled and IS a threat to society in general, and himself/ his family in particuluar. He does not seem interested in getting help for himself. Only God can help him, and he seems to not want God, either.

fadingheart, you need to turn him over to God and leave him before something even worse happens.. he's smeared dog poop on your face, thrown ice in your face, and even whipped you with a rolled-up towel to the face. What's he gonna do next? Hold your hand over a hot burner? Throw boiling water on you? Beat you senseless and break bones? Smarten up and leave his butt now!! Before he kills you. Wait until he leaves the house, then pack a suitcase and get out of there with the kids, and for heaven's sake, get a restraining order.

What Lady Blue has said.

JesusLives · Feb 28, 2015

presidente said:

This is feminist domestic violence shelter rhetoric right here. It's not consistent with the Gospel, either, since if any man be in Christ, he is a new creation. Also, believers who have sinful areas in their lives and can repent, and the Lord can transform them.

Just from a secular perspective, it isn't true either. Even unbelievers can improve their behavior over time through various means, counseling, conditioning, etc.

What you say about the man could be true. Or it could just be your imagination. You could be projecting the Duluth model, about a man who killed his family, on a man who has some regular anger issues and a lower standard of hygiene (dog poop). The fact that you believed the dog poop was wiped in her face shows how much your imagination goes into this. You probably imagine him acting a certain way.

I know people say that if a spouse is abusive, the other spouse could end up dead, so they'd better get out. The feminist DV philosophy can break up a lot of marriages. For the 1 out of hundreds of thousands (stat made up on the spot) of women in a marriage where the husband gets angry and calls her the 'b-word' who does kill or injure his wife, what about the millions who don't? This kind of philosophy about abuse can break up a lot of marriages and leave kids without parents.

It's also unrealistic to think that if a man has some anger issues and did a few aggressive things to assumes it's going to escalate to some violence that causes real physical harm. That's the feminist DV center philosophy, but what is the evidence that this is true?

There are lots of marriages that fit that 'abuse cycle' you showed on the website where the problem is not a monster abuser who is never going to change. That seems to describe a lot of relationships. The couple could be getting along, and one time the husband could say something that creates tension and leads to conflict. Another time the wife could do it. Some of the DV center literature leads women to blame their husbands for all their marital problems, paint him as a monster who can't change. The counselors say leave your husband.

I do understand someone leaving when they are in real danger. I can understand why someone wouldn't want to be with someone who threatens their life. But now 'abuse' is expanded to include 'verbal abuse'. Some of the models of abuse on feminist websites classify behaviors that don't fit into a feminist ideal of marriage as 'abuse.' Not giving one's wife money when she asks is seen as part of an abuse cycle. Quoting scripture is seen is abuse. Giving one's wife 'a look' is seen as abuse.

There are plenty of people who did or experienced these sort of bad things earlier in their marriages whose marriages improved after they repented and changed their behavior.

One thing I don't like about this thread is the attitude of 'forget about the Bible. Just go with this advice of mine?" Or "Forget what Jesus and the apostles said. Read this domestic violence website and get out."

Is submitting to a man who has anger issues a sure way to end up dead in the ditch? I don't think so. It could happen, but you could get hit by a bus while leaving the house to get away from your angry husband, too, when you could have stayed alive at home.

I've hear that Augustine's mother was married to an unbeliever who had a reputation for his extreme temper. When she'd talk to other wives, they'd complain about their husbands beating them. But she was so submissive to her husband, he never beat her in spite of his temper. We are probably all glad we don't live in the brutal Roman world of that era. Peter wrote a few centuries before this when he told wives to submit to their husbands, so that if they do not obey the word, they might be won by the chaste conversation of their wives.

If a wife is going to leave her husband to 'send him a message', that can be an unclear thing for a man, too, especially if all he knows is that his wife is upset and left him. Doing this without some kind of counseling set up and without it being clear that it's not a step toward divorce or a license for either party to go find someone else is also a dangerous thing to do.

Jesus said that he that marries her that is divorced commits adultery. The Lord said through Paul, "Let not the wife depart from her husband. But if she departs, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband."

If a man wipes dog poop on his wife's clothes and she divorces him and marries someone else, that's adultery.

If a man hits his wife and she divorces him, and marries someone else, that's adultery.

A wife isn't to leave. If she does, marrying someone else is not an option. If she wants to get her advice from secular sources and based on this wants to move out, separate, or divorce, should she be surprised if he gets his ethics about separation and divorce from other sources and concludes that if his wife leaves him, he is free to find another girlfriend? 'If he treats you badly, move out' is secular ethics, but so is, 'if she leaves you, find another one.' She's trying to 'send him a message' and she pushes him further away from her real objective of improvement and change.

Instead of putting the Bible on the back burner, putting the teachings of Christ on the back burner to do what you think you have to do to protect yourself, why not actually follow what it teaches on the issue? Go to Matthew 18. If your spouse is sinning against you, go get witnesses, then bring him before the church.

I know it's true that a lot of churches totally ignore the many scriptures on church discipline and not keeping company with the professing brother in sin. But that's no excuse for not pursuing it. At least try to get the church involved. Walk in obedience to the Lord instead of assuming it won't work.

A preacher I know was telling me of a church that practiced church discipline. A woman came to the elders and told them that her husband had been, for a long time, trying to get her to do things that weren't right sexually. He didn't give any details, but he said it was perverted. (Let's imagine swinging or something that we'd all agree was wrong for the sake of argument.) He had a big porn problem and his wife had been bothered by it but hadn't shared it with anyone until then.

When the church leaders found out what he was trying to get her to do, they confronted him. Eventually, they stopped keeping company with him as a form of church discipline. Part of this involved the wife and children moving out of the house. After a while, the husband repented and was restored to his family and to fellowship.

The message here is a lot different from just leaving. It's a process to eventually restore the man with his family when he repents, not a message that says, "I'm leaving you. Our marriage is over." It's not a license to date or marry someone else.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

As spoken by a man who would probably never face abuse....I was married to a Christian man who was emotionally abusive and I left him he never touched me physically but emotionally hurt me and I did not want to get married for 35 years being so hurt by the treatment and the divorce I was afraid of commitment. He remarried 3 months after our divorce. He passed away in March of 2014 releasing me to marry again. But two years ago I called him up on what would have been our 40th anniversary and we talked for about an hour he apologized for the way he had treated me and talked to me so many years ago and I apologized for my wrongs in the marriage. I am so glad we cleared the air and forgave each other before he passed. Abuse is real whether physical or emotional.

MrsRoseTreasure · Feb 28, 2015

fadingheart said:

I'm sorry for your pain and sorrow, though I'm glad you had the courage to speak out and admit what has been done to you. I know how hard that is.

I was married to this man. Well, not the dog poop, but he threw a 2lb block of cheese at me and left a huge bruise, and when he saw the bruise weeks later accused me of showing it to him to manipulate him.

I thought I was getting ready for bed. Silly me. He locked me out of my own house one night, and I had to sleep in my van. He then accused me of spending the night with someone else. This was because I let a cat in the house, btw. I could go on and on, but it's just depressing.

He also spent a lot of time being a "believer" and shouting about God, but he didn't display any of the fruits of the spirit.

I look back at that woman and I am amazed at how I allowed myself to be treated. I am no longer that woman, and I am no longer interested in being someone's emotional whipping dog. Some people have said that abuse nullifies the marriage, and that God doesn't want us to stay with abusive men. I don't know if that's scriptural, but I left regardless.

It's not going to get better. I would walk away and never look back, but you have to choose for yourself. There are men out there that don't need you to be "more submissive" to love you like they love themselves. Would he wipe dog crap on himself? I'm guessing not. That's not normal, sweety.

I read a book shortly after I left about abusers and what drives them. It was very informative, and seeing the ex in this book helped me realize it really wasn't about me at all. I wish I could remember the name of it for you. I also read, "Life Matters," by Phil McGraw. Yeah, I get it. It's a lot of pshcyo babble, but I needed a lesson on personal accountability and taking responsibility for what happens to me. (No, you didn't deserve to be abused, but without taking responsibility for the choices you made, you will find yourself in the same place again.) There's several pages of accountability statements, and I went through them all and wrote down the ones that applied to me, starting with, "You married him."

It was not to beat myself up. It was to empower me. I made the choice to let that man steamroll me, and I made the choice to stay as long as I did. I also made the choice to leave, and to start over with a fresh face. I was responsible for both of those things, and I now held responsibility for my life going forward. By admitting my own responsibility in what I did, and handing his back to him, I have been able to leave most of the baggage behind, and had found a great deal of happiness in it's wake.

I wish you all the best and I will remember you in my prayers. Please empower yourself to make better decisions in the future, and to say no when no is the right answer. Shalom. Peace and blessings.

keepitsimple · Feb 28, 2015

presidente said:

The 'once an abuser, always an abuser' philosophy wasn't consistent with the Gospel.

Lovely. The next time you run across a "former abuser", maybe you can set him up with your sister.

It indicates that I have read the scripture in question and believe what it says. Do you believe it is true or not? You also don't know the dynamics of the relationship and whether submission would actually help it.

This has to be the most ignorant and ill-informed comment I have yet to read on CC ... bar none. The more I read of your posts, the more your profile is uncovered. Stay away from topics such as this. You have zero business responding ... and less than nothing to offer.

presidente · Mar 1, 2015

Keepitsimple,

The Bible commands wives to submit to their husbands. I see if you post certain unpopular scriptures on certain topics, you can be accused of being ignorant and ill-informed. I don't find your comment to be particularly informed, either.

proverbs35 · Mar 1, 2015

Presidente said: Also, believers who have sinful areas in their lives and can repent, and the Lord can transform them. Just from a secular perspective, it isn't true either. Even unbelievers can improve their behavior over time through various means, counseling, conditioning, etc.

CAN is the keyword here. Believers CAN repent and allow the Lord to transform them. However, that doesn't mean that they WILL repent, change for the better, transform or reform. Just because a person CAN do something doesn't mean that they WILL do it.

Presidente said: The feminist DV philosophy can break up a lot of marriages.

Well, a skewed view of patriarchy, gender roles, male privilege and female responsibility has caused a lot wives to suffer bodily harm or be killed by husbands who were suppose to love and protect them.

Presidente said: This kind of philosophy about abuse can break up a lot of marriages and leave kids without parents.

Wives and mothers being murdered by husbands who were suppose to love and protect them can also leave kids without parent(s). The mother is gone because she's dead, and the father will likely be gone because he's in prison.

Presidente said: It's also unrealistic to think that if a man has some anger issues and did a few aggressive things to assumes it's going to escalate to some violence that causes real physical harm. That's the feminist DV center philosophy, but what is the evidence that this is true?

Reality begs to differ. What evidence do we have that this is realistic? The body count. Intimate partner violence data reveals this:

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, intimate partner violence includes victimization by current and former spouses or current and former dating partners.

Women are more likely to be murdered by someone they know intimately than someone they don’t, according to the study. Report: South Carolina, Oklahoma Dangerous Places to be a Woman Men were more likely than women to be killed by strangers. http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fvv.pdf

About 40 percent of women killed worldwide are done so by a partner, according to the World Health Organization's first global review of violence against women. WHO Study: Forty Percent of Murdered Women Killed By Their Partners - US News

At Least A Third Of All Women Murdered In The U.S. Are Killed By Male Partners At Least A Third Of All Women Murdered In The U.S. Are Killed By Male Partners

U.S. deaths 1980-2008 (from the Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics) Women account for two out of three murder victims killed by an intimate partner. The number of women killed by an intimate partner fell from 43% in 1980 to 38% in 1995, but rose to 45% in 2008. The number of men killed by an intimate partner fell from 10.4% in 1980 to 4.98% in 2008. Domestic (Intimate Partner) Violence Fast Facts - CNN.com

Black women at greater risk of becoming victims of homicidal domestic violence

Black women at greater risk of becoming victims of homicidal domestic violence | Dallas Morning News

Murder Is One of Top Causes of Death for Pregnant Women. Some states do not even keep track of the number of a pregnant women killed by boyfriends or husband. But the Washington Post identified more than 1,300 during a 14-year period ending in 2004.Murder Is One of Top Causes of Death for Pregnant Women - ABC News

Given all the dead women killed by intimate partners - current and former husbands or current and former boyfriends, it certainly isn't "unrealistic to think that if a man has some anger issues and [has done] a few aggressive things to assume it's going to escalate to some violence that causes real physical harm."

Presidente said: Some of the DV center literature leads women to blame their husbands for all their marital problems, paint him as a monster who can't change. The counselors say leave your husband.

Skewed patriarchy rhetoric can serve as a buttress that SOME men (the ones who abuse) will use in order to blame women for all of their problems - marital and otherwise. A lot of the self-proclaimed patriarchs and authoritarians will say, "Assert your authority over her. Dominate her. Show her whose boss."

Presidente said: But now 'abuse' is expanded to include 'verbal abuse'.

I gather you don't believe in the existence of verbal abuse. However, the Bible sheds light on the subject.

The tongue has the power of life and death, and those who love it will eat its fruit. Pr 18:21

Ismael mocked Isaac (Ge 21:9). The word used for mock means scoff, irritating and deriding laughter. None of it was physical. However, although it was only VERBAL and non-physical, it was enough for Sarah to tell Abraham to send Hagar and Ismael away. God told Abraham to obey Sarah on that particular matter (Ge 21:12). Therefore, the verbal abuse (mocking) was a pretty big red flag and indicator of potential physical abuse.

Scoundrels create trouble;their words are a destructive blaze. Pr 16:27

A perverse man spreads strife, And a slanderer separates intimate friends. Pr 16:28

The words of the reckless pierce like swords. Pr 12:18A

The LORD hates a lying tongue. Pr 6:16-17.

King David talked about being verbally abused:

My God, whom I praise, do not remain silent, 2for people who are wicked and deceitful have opened their mouths against me; they have spoken against me with lying tongues. 3With words of hatred they surround me; they attack me without cause. 4In return for my friendship they accuse me, but I am a man of prayer. 5They repay me evil for good, and hatred for my friendship (Psalm 109:2-5).

Verbal is abuse is real. Sarah knew that, and David experienced it.

Presidente said: One thing I don't like about this thread is the attitude of 'forget about the Bible. Just go with this advice of mine?" Or "Forget what Jesus and the apostles said. Read this domestic violence website and get out."

I don't believe the posters on this thread are generally advocating that the OP forget about the Bible. In fact, Angela listed several wisdom verses that tell us how to respond and relate to an angry person. Post # 47.

Don’t befriend angry people or associate with hot-tempered people, or you will learn to be like them and endanger your soul (Pro 22:24-25).

A quick-tempered man acts foolishly (Pro 14:17A). Stay away from fools, for you will not find knowledge on their lips (Pro 14:7).

A violent person entices their neighbor and leads them down a path that is not good (Pr 16:29).

Drive out the mocker, and out goes strife; quarrels and insults are ended (Pr 22:10).

Those verses are just AS relevant as what Jesus and the apostles taught because "ALL Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." 2 Tim 3:16-17

Presidente said: Is submitting to a man who has anger issues a sure way to end up dead in the ditch? I don't think so. It could happen, but you could get hit by a bus while leaving the house to get away from your angry husband, too, when you could have stayed alive at home.

You might not think so, but here's what the Bible has to say on the subject:

A violent person entices their neighbor and leads them down a path that is not good (Pr 16:29).

A violent, angry man will entice his wife and lead her down a path that is not good. How do I know? Because Pr 16:29 states that is what violent, angry leaders do. She may or may not end up dead in the ditch, but if she follows her violent, angry husband, she will end up on a path that is not good.

Submission, wifely or otherwise, is not a cure all, and the Bible doesn't say that it is.

Presidente said: I've hear that Augustine's mother was married to an unbeliever who had a reputation for his extreme temper. When she'd talk to other wives, they'd complain about their husbands beating them. But she was so submissive to her husband, he never beat her in spite of his temper. We are probably all glad we don't live in the brutal Roman world of that era. Peter wrote a few centuries before this when he told wives to submit to their husbands, so that if they do not obey the word, they might be won by the chaste conversation of their wives.

That's good for Augustine's mother, but that doesn't work for all women. That didn't work for Karen Cox Smith who was murdered by her husband who was suppose to love and protect her.

Chris Coleman - Joyce Meyer's former bodyguard - killed his wife and two sons, so church discipline and wifely submission didn't heal that marriage either. Mrs. Coleman believed in the whole "a wife should not depart from her husband," and that mentality helped contribute to her untimely death and the untimely death of the couple's 2 sons.

Coleman's appeal, while broadly arguing prosecutors didn't sufficiently prove their case, said the prosecution's theory that Coleman strangled wife Sheri Coleman "because he couldn't seek a divorce from her, for job reasons" wrongly relied on repetitive hearsay testimony that his wife wouldn't have accepted a divorce. The appeal called that harm to Coleman "substantial," noting "the affair was one thing (but) it did not have to result in the end of the marriage" as prosecutors submitted. Convicted killer of wife, 2 sons appeals

Presidente said: If a wife is going to leave her husband to 'send him a message', that can be an unclear thing for a man, too, especially if all he knows is that his wife is upset and left him. Doing this without some kind of counseling set up and without it being clear that it's not a step toward divorce or a license for either party to go find someone else is also a dangerous thing to do.

A license? Who needs a license? The OP already suspects that her husband might be cheating, although she doesn't have any concrete evidence. However, if her suspicions are correct, he's cheating within the marriage (adultery). In other words, he doesn't have to wait until separation or divorce to cheat. If he wants to cheat, he'll cheat. Plenty of married people cheat on their spouses.

Presidente said: Instead of putting the Bible on the back burner, putting the teachings of Christ on the back burner to do what you think you have to do to protect yourself, why not actually follow what it teaches on the issue? Go to Matthew 18. If your spouse is sinning against you, go get witnesses, then bring him before the church. I know it's true that a lot of churches totally ignore the many scriptures on church discipline and not keeping company with the professing brother in sin. But that's no excuse for not pursuing it. At least try to get the church involved. Walk in obedience to the Lord instead of assuming it won't work.

How do you know that she hasn't tried this? Church discipline can have little effect on an abuser. Sure the church can admonish him and pray for him, but they literally have no power to make him change. It's a free country, and they can't force him to change.

An abused wife, Karen Cox Smith, sought help from her local church. Afterwards, the couple reconciled and lived together in DeSoto. The Smiths and their three children began attending Inspiring Body of Christ, a church in the Red Bird area. Ferdinand Smith - the abusive husband - joined the choir and served as an usher. His wife thought he had changed. But the change didn’t last. The victim's mother said she begged her daughter to leave, but the Smiths’ pastor, Rickie G. Rush, advised otherwise. Her husband, Ferdinand Glen Smith, 42, gunned her down as she left work. He killed her and confessed to the shooting. Pastor Rush would not comment on the murder of Karen Cox Smith and would not return repeated telephone inquries from the media. Murder of abused wife devastates family, spurs change in Dallas | Dallas Morning News

fadingheart · Mar 1, 2015

I have contacted the pastor for help and he was counseling my husband as well. However, nothing changes. I have tried everything.

blue_ladybug · Mar 1, 2015

fadingheart said:

Then you can walk away knowing you tried your best at this marriage. You can't save or change your husband. It's clear he is rejecting any form of help. Take the kids and leave. File divorce papers,and get full custody of the kids with limited and supervised visits for him..

fadingheart · Mar 1, 2015

I have filed but it was joint custody. I don't want to be at war with him. He only gets angry with me.

blue_ladybug · Mar 1, 2015

fadingheart said:

okay.. well I hope he won't try to contest or delay the divorce.. *hugs you*

fadingheart · Mar 1, 2015

He's already being very difficult about it. Avoiding service but I guess it will have to be sent certified mail.

blue_ladybug · Mar 1, 2015

fadingheart said:

send it either certified mail or register mail with receipt, meaning he needs to sign a receipt when it's given to him. That gives you and the court proof that he received it.. I would definitely send it with receipt required..

JoyinHim · Mar 1, 2015

There appears to be some domestic violence in the situation and I would pray and leave because hubby can become violent. You deserve better for yourself and the children.

keepitsimple · Mar 1, 2015

presidente said:

Of course you don't. My comment leaves no room for your sickening justification of using the scriptures to keep women in abusive and hostile relationships/situations. Compound this spewed ignorance further with the surety that the two children involved will most certainly learn what they observe (and not what they are "told" in one of your bible classes") in regards to the actions (or inaction) of both the abuser and the victim ... and voila ! Is the picture getting any clearer yet ? Let me be even more frank. Every time I see somebody post and say the things that you and a few others do in regards to "women being submissive" to their husbands (at any cost, apparently), red flags jump out. I make no pretense of the moral ineptitude of the same who can never bring themselves to reserve their sympathies for those most threatened ... and deserving. And more to the point, I am obliged to consider the motive(s) of one such as yourself.

Heartbroken and Filing for divorce

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Ugly

Guest

Senior Member

soccermom19

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

keepitsimple

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

fadingheart

Guest

Senior Member

fadingheart

Guest

Senior Member

fadingheart

Guest

Senior Member

JoyinHim

Guest

keepitsimple

Guest