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W
then you are lost.
and it has nothing to do with who you want to have relations
with or what sin you choose to put on a pedestal.
Sin is rebellion and hate towards God and people.
All who profess Christ yet continue in sin are lost.
There still may be hope for them however,
things in this world are about to get bad. All the dominoes are lined up.
Maybe once our life of comfort, entertainment and prosperity is stripped from us,
people will take God seriously
and it has nothing to do with who you want to have relations
with or what sin you choose to put on a pedestal.
Sin is rebellion and hate towards God and people.
All who profess Christ yet continue in sin are lost.
There still may be hope for them however,
things in this world are about to get bad. All the dominoes are lined up.
Maybe once our life of comfort, entertainment and prosperity is stripped from us,
people will take God seriously
A
Ok, we were right here http://christianchat.com/christian-family-forum/109145-gay-marriage-4.html#post1935657
A
Here's Dr. Neil Whitehead (PhD in biochemistry) discussing eight recent studies on twins over the past decade that all demonstrate homosexuals are not born: Identical twin studies prove homosexuality is not genetic | Life In HD - The Official Website For Pastor Holland Davis :: Calvary Chapel San Clemente
He's noted for summarizing twenty years of scientific research into homosexuality covering more than 10,000 scientific papers and publications from all sides of the debate thru 1999 in his book 'My Genes Made Me Do It: A Scientific Look at Sexual Orientation.'
He's noted for summarizing twenty years of scientific research into homosexuality covering more than 10,000 scientific papers and publications from all sides of the debate thru 1999 in his book 'My Genes Made Me Do It: A Scientific Look at Sexual Orientation.'
E
There is a very big difference between sin and abomination. GOD is a GOD of creation being HE is Thee Creator of All. HE has created us in HIS Image which is why we have three parts spirit, soul and flesh. We also are to have dominion and create that seed which is in us meaning produce male or female. Thus being said same sex goes against what we are created by GOD to do. Now we are not to banish nor accept the behavior what we are to do is love. Assist them in why the lifestyle is even considered and bring it before the LORD and as with any other abomination, sin, stronghold and or yoke GOD will destroy. One should not be considered as a minister or any other part of leadership until the situation has been dealt with and not just with abominations this is why most in leadership need to sit down and allow GOD to bring aid instead of sweeping it under the rug as if GOD does not see. There are many homosexuals who are seeking help and are being Delivered and will succeed because there is nothing too hard for GOD.
Blessings!!!!!!!
Blessings!!!!!!!
No. I'm afraid you are quite incorrect with your way of thinking. You see, for centuries there have been people who sought to overpower others and control them by various means. The easiest way for some controlling Christians to do that is to use INAPPROPRIATE Scripture to try to get their way and be able to condemn those they do not understand. Leviticus, Sodom and Gomorrah, and other Biblical verses have been used incessantly to try to condemn people who are born with a same-sex attraction sexual orientation. However, those Scriptures do not speak to the condemnation of those in the LGBT community. They are speaking to something else that has nothing to do with sexual orientation.
But in their penchant for control over others and setting themselves up as being 'better' than those who are homosexual those who condemn are committing a far greater sin. Those people never seem to realize the profound negative effect their preachings are having on innocent Gay and Lesbian citizens. Take for instance, the child who is still in school who repeatedly hears how bad it is to be Gay or Lesbian. Then other prejudiced students take that stance and start teasing the child and then bullying him or her. That negative behavior goes on for not days or weeks or months but for years. It gets to the point where the child feels so inferior and unloved coupled by having parents who are not understanding of their sexual orientation that they turn to the only way they feel is the way out of this catastrophe -- Suicide. Yes, it happens and is happening now as we speak. And we just have to ask ourselves is it worth it to cause a young, impressionable child to take their own life as so many are doing worldwide due to scorn and hate for who they truly are and for whom they love? No, it is not and could never be.
We have to remember that Jesus Christ said not one thing about homosexuality ever during His earthly ministry. Neither did God in His Ten Commandments. Had being Gay or Lesbian been such a grave sin in His Divine eyes, there can be no doubt that He would have immediately instituted an Eleventh Commandment "Thou Shalt Not Be Gay or Lesbian." But clearly He did not, as being omniscient, He knew full well that those with a homosexual orientation were born that way. That is why He did not condemn them. But mankind does many times, again by using inappropriate Scripture to try to justify their prejudice, intolerance, discrimination, scorn, and hate. Jesus told us to "Love One Another Unconditionally." That means with no conditions! None whatsoever. If There Is Any Judging To Be Done Leave It To God.
We must not allow bigotry to prevail in the name of Christian teachings. Look at what happened during The Catholic Inquisition! Innocent people lost their lives all because of bigotry and the twisted minds of those who wanted to gain control over others by perverting Biblical truth. Just because a woman used herbs to make a tea or a poultice to help others (as countless people do today) she was immediately branded a "witch" and given an unfair trial and then burned at the stake. Today, we see much of that heinous and outrageous behavior continuing. Behavior justified by using Biblical references to try to support their hatred for others whom they do not understand such as people who are homosexual. Their egregious methods to belittle others and ostracize them defies description. And in the meantime, more people, of all ages, will continue to die at the hands of these evil-does who purport to know the word of God when all they know is how to cause the death of others through their hatred. They are the true Anti-Christ. Jesus would not at all be amused to see what their doings are causing to the people whom God created in love. He is undoubtedly very sad.
As for Gay Marriage, we must remember that America is not a Theocracy. Those who are opposed to it of course have their opinion. But the fact remains that America is governed by the laws of this land and when a majority of people set themselves up such as to try to pass a law by petition or proposition in their state against the civil and human rights of a minority of citizens such as those in the LGBT community, they are not affording them their Constitutional protections under the Fourteenth Amendment and the Equal Protection Clause as the courts have ruled. That is wrong of them to do. They should well remember that Gays and Lesbians work, they pay their taxes, they worship in church, the have or adopt children to add to their family and they even Serve Proudly in the military placing themselves in harm's way so that you and I can have our freedom. That is something the bigots never take into account do they? Everyone is entitled to happiness in life and if two adults of the same gender seek to marry, thereby leave a possible promiscuous lifestyle behind and be devoted to one another in monogamy then they should be allowed to do that. That is why Federal Court after Federal Court, including the Appellate Courts have continuously ruled against same-sex marriage bans in the states and continue to. There is a big upcoming case in the U.S. and the SCOTUS is set to hear arguments for same-sex marriage around the end of April and then rule on that sometime this June. There is great support for this throughout the land with between 55%-59% of Americans In Favor of Same-Sex Marriage, including Evangelicals. Whatever way they rule will take effect across all of the 50 states immediately.
In the meantime, we should make sure that our heart is loving toward our fellow man and that we leave all judgment to God. Remember that those who would cast the first stone are most likely the very ones who have much baggage in their own back yards.
But in their penchant for control over others and setting themselves up as being 'better' than those who are homosexual those who condemn are committing a far greater sin. Those people never seem to realize the profound negative effect their preachings are having on innocent Gay and Lesbian citizens. Take for instance, the child who is still in school who repeatedly hears how bad it is to be Gay or Lesbian. Then other prejudiced students take that stance and start teasing the child and then bullying him or her. That negative behavior goes on for not days or weeks or months but for years. It gets to the point where the child feels so inferior and unloved coupled by having parents who are not understanding of their sexual orientation that they turn to the only way they feel is the way out of this catastrophe -- Suicide. Yes, it happens and is happening now as we speak. And we just have to ask ourselves is it worth it to cause a young, impressionable child to take their own life as so many are doing worldwide due to scorn and hate for who they truly are and for whom they love? No, it is not and could never be.
We have to remember that Jesus Christ said not one thing about homosexuality ever during His earthly ministry. Neither did God in His Ten Commandments. Had being Gay or Lesbian been such a grave sin in His Divine eyes, there can be no doubt that He would have immediately instituted an Eleventh Commandment "Thou Shalt Not Be Gay or Lesbian." But clearly He did not, as being omniscient, He knew full well that those with a homosexual orientation were born that way. That is why He did not condemn them. But mankind does many times, again by using inappropriate Scripture to try to justify their prejudice, intolerance, discrimination, scorn, and hate. Jesus told us to "Love One Another Unconditionally." That means with no conditions! None whatsoever. If There Is Any Judging To Be Done Leave It To God.
We must not allow bigotry to prevail in the name of Christian teachings. Look at what happened during The Catholic Inquisition! Innocent people lost their lives all because of bigotry and the twisted minds of those who wanted to gain control over others by perverting Biblical truth. Just because a woman used herbs to make a tea or a poultice to help others (as countless people do today) she was immediately branded a "witch" and given an unfair trial and then burned at the stake. Today, we see much of that heinous and outrageous behavior continuing. Behavior justified by using Biblical references to try to support their hatred for others whom they do not understand such as people who are homosexual. Their egregious methods to belittle others and ostracize them defies description. And in the meantime, more people, of all ages, will continue to die at the hands of these evil-does who purport to know the word of God when all they know is how to cause the death of others through their hatred. They are the true Anti-Christ. Jesus would not at all be amused to see what their doings are causing to the people whom God created in love. He is undoubtedly very sad.
As for Gay Marriage, we must remember that America is not a Theocracy. Those who are opposed to it of course have their opinion. But the fact remains that America is governed by the laws of this land and when a majority of people set themselves up such as to try to pass a law by petition or proposition in their state against the civil and human rights of a minority of citizens such as those in the LGBT community, they are not affording them their Constitutional protections under the Fourteenth Amendment and the Equal Protection Clause as the courts have ruled. That is wrong of them to do. They should well remember that Gays and Lesbians work, they pay their taxes, they worship in church, the have or adopt children to add to their family and they even Serve Proudly in the military placing themselves in harm's way so that you and I can have our freedom. That is something the bigots never take into account do they? Everyone is entitled to happiness in life and if two adults of the same gender seek to marry, thereby leave a possible promiscuous lifestyle behind and be devoted to one another in monogamy then they should be allowed to do that. That is why Federal Court after Federal Court, including the Appellate Courts have continuously ruled against same-sex marriage bans in the states and continue to. There is a big upcoming case in the U.S. and the SCOTUS is set to hear arguments for same-sex marriage around the end of April and then rule on that sometime this June. There is great support for this throughout the land with between 55%-59% of Americans In Favor of Same-Sex Marriage, including Evangelicals. Whatever way they rule will take effect across all of the 50 states immediately.
In the meantime, we should make sure that our heart is loving toward our fellow man and that we leave all judgment to God. Remember that those who would cast the first stone are most likely the very ones who have much baggage in their own back yards.
"Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." -- MATTHEW 7:5 KJV
Likewise, for parity, it is important to know and understand that these scientific and medical studies also exist.
LGBT Science — Exploring the origins of sexual orientation and gender identity — LGBT Science
Study finds genes on X chromosome linked to male homosexuality
Geneticist Dean Hamer Testifies In Hawai’i On The Biological Origins Of Homosexuality | Truth Wins Out
LGBT Science — Exploring the origins of sexual orientation and gender identity — LGBT Science
Study finds genes on X chromosome linked to male homosexuality
Geneticist Dean Hamer Testifies In Hawai’i On The Biological Origins Of Homosexuality | Truth Wins Out
G
"I feel that Gay marriage is a sin." It is a sin. Instead of saying "I feel" just say what it is.
"We shouldn't judge." What do you mean?
"Should Gay members of the church be allowed to minister?" You just said "We shouldn't judge."
"I think that the BIG difference is that Gay people are not trying to correct their sin but, they are trying to live in it and defend it." Yes, they do ignore the Bible's condemnation of homosexuality. I do not, however, agree that their defending homosexuality is the big difference. People defend polygamy, hate, revenge, covetousness. The big difference is the affect. Same sex marriages redefine, corrupt God's plan. The common family today, which is afflicted by divorce, disrespect, ungodliness, etc. is one major reason of all our problems.
Those who do defend it, need to be taught the truth, but that needs to be done with a loving spirit and much patience and prayer.
"We shouldn't judge." What do you mean?
"Should Gay members of the church be allowed to minister?" You just said "We shouldn't judge."
"I think that the BIG difference is that Gay people are not trying to correct their sin but, they are trying to live in it and defend it." Yes, they do ignore the Bible's condemnation of homosexuality. I do not, however, agree that their defending homosexuality is the big difference. People defend polygamy, hate, revenge, covetousness. The big difference is the affect. Same sex marriages redefine, corrupt God's plan. The common family today, which is afflicted by divorce, disrespect, ungodliness, etc. is one major reason of all our problems.
Those who do defend it, need to be taught the truth, but that needs to be done with a loving spirit and much patience and prayer.
A
Your post is riddled with fallacy HeartLove.
First of all, there's nothing INAPPROPRIATE about a society restricting marriage to absolute monogamy as it is fully supported not just theologically but also secularly per natural law making your assertion to the contrary false.
I've read all the pro-homosexual arguments about Sodom and Gomorrah and every one of them is incorrect and fallacious. Without a doubt homosexuality is condemned as a sexual immorality, regardless of whether the people engaging in the behavior thought it to be their "orientation" or not, in the bible. You obviously have no real genuine theological understanding with respect to what the bible teaches about homosexuality or sexual immorality in general. But, I'm qualified to educate you on that topic if you like.
But first you need an education of what Jesus meant about judging since you're making patently false assertions about that. Here's a suggested starting point for you: What Did Jesus Mean by "Judge Not"? | PARSE
Secondly, immorality is not equitable with morality and there are always negative consequences that result when a society begins to legalize immorality and simultaneously intolerantly pass laws that persecute the righteous when they maintain their human right to a free moral conscience aligning with God's normative morality (e.g. natural law) and religious liberty to not facilitate or condone immorality which up until very recently was always strongly protected under the Constitution.
The real penchant for control over others we see presently emanates from "liberals" seeking to sacrilegiously desecrate the holy sacrament of the marriage covenant that God ordained for humanity in the context of strict monogamy. Recent attempts to use the government criminal justice system to force moral people to accept that which is patently immoral are now well documented up to and including bankruptcy and imprisonment.
And bullying goes both ways. Surveys show that Christian children are being bullied by non-Christians for retaining a moral conscience and belief system and refusing to compromise it when pressured to do so in a public school system that is pro-homosexual today (exactly the opposite of what you're asserting) and in some states like the one I live in (e.g. CA) it's the rule of law to teach the homosexual agenda to children K-12th.
You're falsely accusing people of being hypocrites when they're really aligned with God Himself on issues you do not understand.
Furthermore, you obviously don't understand the theological relationship of government to God. Hint, government is not God. Government which pass de facto man-made laws that conflict with God's de jure moral law are immoral by definition and to be resisted and, if necessary disobeyed, until they can be overturned.
God does not cosign, support, nor promote wickedness regardless of whether or not people manage to have it codified into a man-made law. In whatever form government takes, higher powers (e.g. government authority) are always "under" or "below" God and never possess God's approval in instances where they contradict His holiness.
The Gospel accounts are clear that Jesus did not accept all legal and governing authorities as ultimate dispensers of God’s will. Wherever he went, he bucked the system, upset the status quo and challenged the authorities’ claim to the right and the truth. And in the context of a life of disciple of Jesus, countless martyrs rightfully gave their lives because they resisted ungodly decrees of the authorities and purposed to obey God where they conflicted. A genuine view of scripture prevents us from viewing the demands of society and its rulers with uncritical acceptance and automatic approval.
Paul’s argument is this: It is God’s intent that human life in the context of community will be life in harmony and peace and order (see Rom 12:10, 18). Since life in community becomes chaotic and anarchistic without the presence of regulatory laws enforced by authorities, the presence of these are part of God’s overall intent for human existence. Therefore, insofar as the state and its rulers exercise their authority in keeping with God’s intent, they act as God’s ministers for the common good of society.
If, however, the authority of the state runs counter to this divine intent, then that authority should not be understood as God-given. In fact, it becomes quite clear from Revelation 13 and 18, as well as other places in the New Testament, that the state which persecutes Christians, which dispenses injustice instead of justice, which supports moral decay, which tramples on the weak and powerless, has been usurped by demonic powers and forces diametrically opposed to God’s intents and purposes.
Because your ignorance of scripture is colossal, and leading you into all sorts of error, I suggest you begin rectifying it by submitting yourself to what the bible you presently misrepresent calls "sound doctrine." Peace.
First of all, there's nothing INAPPROPRIATE about a society restricting marriage to absolute monogamy as it is fully supported not just theologically but also secularly per natural law making your assertion to the contrary false.
I've read all the pro-homosexual arguments about Sodom and Gomorrah and every one of them is incorrect and fallacious. Without a doubt homosexuality is condemned as a sexual immorality, regardless of whether the people engaging in the behavior thought it to be their "orientation" or not, in the bible. You obviously have no real genuine theological understanding with respect to what the bible teaches about homosexuality or sexual immorality in general. But, I'm qualified to educate you on that topic if you like.
But first you need an education of what Jesus meant about judging since you're making patently false assertions about that. Here's a suggested starting point for you: What Did Jesus Mean by "Judge Not"? | PARSE
Secondly, immorality is not equitable with morality and there are always negative consequences that result when a society begins to legalize immorality and simultaneously intolerantly pass laws that persecute the righteous when they maintain their human right to a free moral conscience aligning with God's normative morality (e.g. natural law) and religious liberty to not facilitate or condone immorality which up until very recently was always strongly protected under the Constitution.
The real penchant for control over others we see presently emanates from "liberals" seeking to sacrilegiously desecrate the holy sacrament of the marriage covenant that God ordained for humanity in the context of strict monogamy. Recent attempts to use the government criminal justice system to force moral people to accept that which is patently immoral are now well documented up to and including bankruptcy and imprisonment.
And bullying goes both ways. Surveys show that Christian children are being bullied by non-Christians for retaining a moral conscience and belief system and refusing to compromise it when pressured to do so in a public school system that is pro-homosexual today (exactly the opposite of what you're asserting) and in some states like the one I live in (e.g. CA) it's the rule of law to teach the homosexual agenda to children K-12th.
You're falsely accusing people of being hypocrites when they're really aligned with God Himself on issues you do not understand.
Furthermore, you obviously don't understand the theological relationship of government to God. Hint, government is not God. Government which pass de facto man-made laws that conflict with God's de jure moral law are immoral by definition and to be resisted and, if necessary disobeyed, until they can be overturned.
God does not cosign, support, nor promote wickedness regardless of whether or not people manage to have it codified into a man-made law. In whatever form government takes, higher powers (e.g. government authority) are always "under" or "below" God and never possess God's approval in instances where they contradict His holiness.
The Gospel accounts are clear that Jesus did not accept all legal and governing authorities as ultimate dispensers of God’s will. Wherever he went, he bucked the system, upset the status quo and challenged the authorities’ claim to the right and the truth. And in the context of a life of disciple of Jesus, countless martyrs rightfully gave their lives because they resisted ungodly decrees of the authorities and purposed to obey God where they conflicted. A genuine view of scripture prevents us from viewing the demands of society and its rulers with uncritical acceptance and automatic approval.
Paul’s argument is this: It is God’s intent that human life in the context of community will be life in harmony and peace and order (see Rom 12:10, 18). Since life in community becomes chaotic and anarchistic without the presence of regulatory laws enforced by authorities, the presence of these are part of God’s overall intent for human existence. Therefore, insofar as the state and its rulers exercise their authority in keeping with God’s intent, they act as God’s ministers for the common good of society.
If, however, the authority of the state runs counter to this divine intent, then that authority should not be understood as God-given. In fact, it becomes quite clear from Revelation 13 and 18, as well as other places in the New Testament, that the state which persecutes Christians, which dispenses injustice instead of justice, which supports moral decay, which tramples on the weak and powerless, has been usurped by demonic powers and forces diametrically opposed to God’s intents and purposes.
Because your ignorance of scripture is colossal, and leading you into all sorts of error, I suggest you begin rectifying it by submitting yourself to what the bible you presently misrepresent calls "sound doctrine." Peace.
A
The parity is false; however, as the content in the links you submitted has already been refuted.
Example: http://www.apologeticspress.com/pub_rar/24_8/0408.pdf
Example: Are People Born Gay? Genetics and Homosexuality
Example: http://www.apologeticspress.com/pub_rar/24_8/0408.pdf
Example: Are People Born Gay? Genetics and Homosexuality
Please save your sanctimonious argument for bigots who well align with your way of thinking. All other open-minded individuals can plainly see the danger in your way of thinking and those of your ilk. But of course you are the type of person who obviously believes the earth is flat and will argue to the death with that perspective. We are not fooled. Your way of thinking and interpretation of what the Bible does not say is most dangerous to the safety and well-being of Gay and Lesbian citizens.