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M
No the bible makes clear that a believer is to overcome sin, by Gods grace and the power of Gods Spirit over the desires of the flesh...it also makes clear that no one can call themselves a Christian unless they are in the position of a life that honors God.
2Ti 2:19 ¶ Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
There is no such thing as a "gay" christian
2Ti 2:19 ¶ Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
There is no such thing as a "gay" christian
When you don't ever sin, ever, not ever, and don't ever allow yourself to think hateful thoughts, and don't ever allow yourself jealousy or anger or the want of vengeance or the need of lust, then please contact me and let me know your secret. Maybe you can bury me up to my head and justifiably stone me into the ground, then. But I imagine a fully enlightened being such as yourself would have no need of violent retribution. Maybe you could give me a nice warm hug instead.
R
You feel Gay marriage is Sin? I agree there are some people that will judge on this subject. However, God does say its forbiden. and It is sin. God loves the sinner but not the practice of sin. God loves Gay people, But not there practices. God says Sin wont enter in heaven, hence why God threw out Satan. You cannot be Christian and be Gay at the same time, it sends out the wrong message. For a gay person to minister in a church, he has to disregard his sin of being Gay, he has to repent, he has to accept that God forbids homosexuality. and If he wants to misnister, he has to be ordained in the church as a minister. God won't call a gay man to preach the gospel if he is sinning. Though God can use people but to better themselves to be righteous. But there is a saying: you cant have cake and eat it.
This is not a judgement or pointing the finger. As I said God loves sinners, He loves the people, but not there actions or practices. and again you cannot be Gay and Christian at the same time. It sends out the wrong message and You cant be saint and sinner at the same time. We can feel sorry and feel it for Gays, and even go to the point of trying to protect them. But what God says, stands, and will do until Jesus comes back.
In the bible it tell us a lot about homosexuality is wrong and is sin and not right. If the gay person wants to become a Christian, Whcih means to be Christ like, then he has to repent, Get rid of the sin, and start to live life as a christian. however the choice is down to them. there is no such thing as a Christian Gay. Christ didn't live life as a gay, but God sent his son to die for our sins, So if a gay person wants to follow Jesus, repentence is the key issue. and it has to come from the heart and the Gay thing needs to stop completely. God is serious on this. and no matter how people try to think or say its ok for a gay to be christian, its not. We should encourage them to make the right choice not encourage them to live there life. Thats my thought on this.
This is not a judgement or pointing the finger. As I said God loves sinners, He loves the people, but not there actions or practices. and again you cannot be Gay and Christian at the same time. It sends out the wrong message and You cant be saint and sinner at the same time. We can feel sorry and feel it for Gays, and even go to the point of trying to protect them. But what God says, stands, and will do until Jesus comes back.
In the bible it tell us a lot about homosexuality is wrong and is sin and not right. If the gay person wants to become a Christian, Whcih means to be Christ like, then he has to repent, Get rid of the sin, and start to live life as a christian. however the choice is down to them. there is no such thing as a Christian Gay. Christ didn't live life as a gay, but God sent his son to die for our sins, So if a gay person wants to follow Jesus, repentence is the key issue. and it has to come from the heart and the Gay thing needs to stop completely. God is serious on this. and no matter how people try to think or say its ok for a gay to be christian, its not. We should encourage them to make the right choice not encourage them to live there life. Thats my thought on this.
M
Well, it don't really matter what you think about me, it matters what the bible says about this issue. No believer in Christ can call themselves a "gay" Christian... there is no such thing!
2Ti 2:19 ¶ Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
2Ti 2:19 ¶ Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
I don't need to justify reality and I never said immoral actions were ''okay''. The reality is everyone is sinful. Whether that's okay or not is irrelevant to the fact that it's real. The morality or immorality of that reality have no bearing on whether it is what exists or not. I am in touch with that reality enough to recognize nobody is better than anyone else on the most grand of scales, and I, not ''they'', is the focus of any effort to morality.
Until ''I'' is rid of darkness, who am I to talk about ''they''?
Until ''I'' is rid of darkness, who am I to talk about ''they''?
M
The fact that we all have the flesh is no excuse for walking in the flesh...that's not what being a Christian is about...God gave us His Spirit to overcome the flesh... that's what a Christian is called to do and no real believer, having the Holy Spirit has any excuse for yielding to their flesh and allowing it to destroy them.
R
We as Christians, should encourage those who really want to change there lifestyle of being Gay. Not point the finger or judge. A sinner will know they are in the wrong, but its down to them to override it if they genuinely want to change. if they want to carry on sinning, then its down to those who make that choice. But we as Christians should encourage those who really and genuinely want to give up that lifestyle of sin, to encourage them and welcome them to the family of God. And in that encouragement, there will be things that a gay person may not want to hear, or give up. Agains, a gay person cannot live as a Christian. A christian is a person who lives life Christ like. Christ was not gay, Though he died on the cross for there sins. As you may well know. But what God stated in the bible is final, there is no way aroiund it, its his rule, his command, what he says is righteous. and I think its were some christians think they can point the finger as a judgement. So we as christian should encourage those who wish to give up being Gay, and help them to the right path of Jesus. There are many Gays who don't know its wrong for them to be Christian and be gay at the same time. Sin is sin, no matter how you look at it. and If God say something is forbidden, not right, and not good. then people should not find ways around it to be right for them.
You two seem to think I'm encouraging or justifying or excusing something. I'm not. I'm saying ''nobody's perfect'' not to justify or excuse, but because it's fact. That's a fact, whether you're Christian or not. Nobody, not one single person on this entire planet, is perfect.
So, work on yourself. Leave other people to work on themselves.
So, work on yourself. Leave other people to work on themselves.
A person can be attracted to people of the same sex and be a christian the same as a person can be attracted lustful to members of the opposite sex and be christian. You don't get to pick and choose mate. I never said being immoral was alirght, I said everyone is immoral in one way or another. Big difference.
S
That is true for those who are not repentant.
Luke 17: 3 So watch yourselves. "If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them.
There will be many a homosexual who struggle with their sin but are repentant and will be saved.
I think there will be many a homosexual that are not repentant and willfully commit the sin that will probably not be saved.
Luke 17: 3 So watch yourselves. "If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them.
There will be many a homosexual who struggle with their sin but are repentant and will be saved.
I think there will be many a homosexual that are not repentant and willfully commit the sin that will probably not be saved.
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A
In other words, in your view God cannot defeat sin nor change people. What are you doing here then? Fortunately, the bible says the opposite and so did Jesus Christ who came to accomplish exactly that. But then, you do not have the "mind of Christ."
Even a first year divinity student learns that God chose not to annihilate sin but rather to defeat it. And, He chose to defeat it progressively instead of instantaneously. There are many possible reasons for this, but two prominent ones involve (1) the freedom God gave to humans and (2) God's desire to produce a more godlike (godly) product in the process. Defeating evil without destroying freedom while at the same time perfecting free creatures that want to be perfected appears to be at the heart of God's plan. He chose to permit evil in order to defeat it, thus bringing about a greater good.
Salvation-->Sanctification-->Glorification
The process of sanctification can occur quickly for some or be slow and methodical for others with one virtue producing another (Rom 5:3–5) but is always pictured as pressing on toward the goal (Phil 3:12, 14) as something that is not yet perfect but one day will be (Phil 3:12) in which God will eventually sanctify a person wholly (1 Thess 5:23).
Because sanctification is contrary to the fallen state into which people are born and become acclimated, and because it is a process, the imagery of being transformed and renewed is used (Rom 12:2; Eph 4:25). If we ask what such a transformed life actually looks like, we can do no better than to look at the passages known as paraenesis (exhortation)—commands in the form of lists of virtues to practice and vices to avoid (Rom 12:9–21; Eph 4:25–32; Phil 4:4–9; Col 3:12–17; 1 Thess 5:12–20; Heb 13:1–5).
So you're first assertion that we're all "unalterably" "sinful" is false and your implication that it doesn't matter is also false though I'll not take the time in this post to explain to you how and why it greatly matters.
For genuine Christians who experienced a supernatural spiritual rebirth and been endowed with God's Holy Spirit embarking upon a course of progressive sanctification as "new creatures in Christ" that will be perfected in eternity in glory have already had their sinful state altered and in eternity they will be perfected.
Which leads us to your next false assertion, that there's no difference between an unrepentant prostitute who rejects the gospel of Jesus Christ and a pastor whose life has been radically changed by the gospel of Jesus Christ but whom is presently struggling with alcoholism (and needs to step down from his role as pastor and address the problem in his life as a Christian joining the enormous number of other Christians that have found deliverance and complete abstinence from alcohol). How utterly ridiculous of you. Of course there's a difference and I've already showed that there is.
You see my ignorant new friend; it is God's Holy Spirit, mediated by Jesus, which is the agent of moral regeneration and apart from His mysterious work one cannot be a truly moral person nor even enter the kingdom of God (John 3:5–8) much less be sanctified over the course of their life here and be perfected in eternity.
For, it is the regenerate (e.g. a biblical motif of salvation that emphasizes the rebirth or re-creation of fallen human beings by the indwelling Holy Spirit) who possess more than just a residue of Imago Dei in this fallen world that are empowered by God Himself to desire God's holiness in their personal, civic, and political lives (Rom 6:13 RSV; cf. Rom 7:5–6, 10; 8:6, 10) and yet another very important reason why it matters.
In total there are two possible states for a person: regenerate or unregenerate. Because truth is found in correspondence, to know whether someone is unregenerate or regenerate all that's needed is to match what corresponds to regeneration or unregeneration accurately. God's Word explains the what and the how.
Furthermore, if people claim to be regenerate and live wicked lives filled with blatant sexual immorality such as homosexuality, John states that the regeneration of those people should be doubted for their life shows that they are still a child of the devil in an unregenerate state.
God's normative morality is very simply that which aligns with God's holiness or in theology that which corresponds to God's holiness qualified by an accurate application of His special revelation.
To put it simply: If you are regenerate, then you have a new godly nature from God Himself that has altered what you are as a person to your very core and your position with respect to God. This new godly nature naturally aligns with and seeks God's holy normative morality. Obviously, though I have not yet really broached the topic and won't address it in this post to save space, this matters for societies which themselves have a scriptural relationship to creator God that cannot be ignored without consequence.
This is why you don't find genuine Christians living lives of great wickedness and seeking to persecute other Christians who uphold God's holiness in their lives and organizations though you do see fake or professing Christians (unregenerate people who merely profess to be Christians but are not in reality) living lives of great wickedness and seeking to corrupt and defile God's holiness.
Which leads to your next false assertion that there is no difference in sin. While all sin has the power to separate an unsaved person from God, the bible teaches there are degrees of sin and respective consequence.
Read:
Apologetics Press - Are All Sins Equal?
https://carm.org/different-levels-degrees-of-sin
Even a first year divinity student learns that God chose not to annihilate sin but rather to defeat it. And, He chose to defeat it progressively instead of instantaneously. There are many possible reasons for this, but two prominent ones involve (1) the freedom God gave to humans and (2) God's desire to produce a more godlike (godly) product in the process. Defeating evil without destroying freedom while at the same time perfecting free creatures that want to be perfected appears to be at the heart of God's plan. He chose to permit evil in order to defeat it, thus bringing about a greater good.
Salvation-->Sanctification-->Glorification
The process of sanctification can occur quickly for some or be slow and methodical for others with one virtue producing another (Rom 5:3–5) but is always pictured as pressing on toward the goal (Phil 3:12, 14) as something that is not yet perfect but one day will be (Phil 3:12) in which God will eventually sanctify a person wholly (1 Thess 5:23).
Because sanctification is contrary to the fallen state into which people are born and become acclimated, and because it is a process, the imagery of being transformed and renewed is used (Rom 12:2; Eph 4:25). If we ask what such a transformed life actually looks like, we can do no better than to look at the passages known as paraenesis (exhortation)—commands in the form of lists of virtues to practice and vices to avoid (Rom 12:9–21; Eph 4:25–32; Phil 4:4–9; Col 3:12–17; 1 Thess 5:12–20; Heb 13:1–5).
So you're first assertion that we're all "unalterably" "sinful" is false and your implication that it doesn't matter is also false though I'll not take the time in this post to explain to you how and why it greatly matters.
For genuine Christians who experienced a supernatural spiritual rebirth and been endowed with God's Holy Spirit embarking upon a course of progressive sanctification as "new creatures in Christ" that will be perfected in eternity in glory have already had their sinful state altered and in eternity they will be perfected.
Which leads us to your next false assertion, that there's no difference between an unrepentant prostitute who rejects the gospel of Jesus Christ and a pastor whose life has been radically changed by the gospel of Jesus Christ but whom is presently struggling with alcoholism (and needs to step down from his role as pastor and address the problem in his life as a Christian joining the enormous number of other Christians that have found deliverance and complete abstinence from alcohol). How utterly ridiculous of you. Of course there's a difference and I've already showed that there is.
You see my ignorant new friend; it is God's Holy Spirit, mediated by Jesus, which is the agent of moral regeneration and apart from His mysterious work one cannot be a truly moral person nor even enter the kingdom of God (John 3:5–8) much less be sanctified over the course of their life here and be perfected in eternity.
For, it is the regenerate (e.g. a biblical motif of salvation that emphasizes the rebirth or re-creation of fallen human beings by the indwelling Holy Spirit) who possess more than just a residue of Imago Dei in this fallen world that are empowered by God Himself to desire God's holiness in their personal, civic, and political lives (Rom 6:13 RSV; cf. Rom 7:5–6, 10; 8:6, 10) and yet another very important reason why it matters.
In total there are two possible states for a person: regenerate or unregenerate. Because truth is found in correspondence, to know whether someone is unregenerate or regenerate all that's needed is to match what corresponds to regeneration or unregeneration accurately. God's Word explains the what and the how.
Furthermore, if people claim to be regenerate and live wicked lives filled with blatant sexual immorality such as homosexuality, John states that the regeneration of those people should be doubted for their life shows that they are still a child of the devil in an unregenerate state.
God's normative morality is very simply that which aligns with God's holiness or in theology that which corresponds to God's holiness qualified by an accurate application of His special revelation.
To put it simply: If you are regenerate, then you have a new godly nature from God Himself that has altered what you are as a person to your very core and your position with respect to God. This new godly nature naturally aligns with and seeks God's holy normative morality. Obviously, though I have not yet really broached the topic and won't address it in this post to save space, this matters for societies which themselves have a scriptural relationship to creator God that cannot be ignored without consequence.
This is why you don't find genuine Christians living lives of great wickedness and seeking to persecute other Christians who uphold God's holiness in their lives and organizations though you do see fake or professing Christians (unregenerate people who merely profess to be Christians but are not in reality) living lives of great wickedness and seeking to corrupt and defile God's holiness.
Which leads to your next false assertion that there is no difference in sin. While all sin has the power to separate an unsaved person from God, the bible teaches there are degrees of sin and respective consequence.
Read:
Apologetics Press - Are All Sins Equal?
https://carm.org/different-levels-degrees-of-sin