baptism of the Holy Ghost
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I think that we (christians) have all been baptized by the holy spirit into one body.
I think all christians have the ability to speak in tongues... if you find it edifying to yourself or those around you, then continue, certainly...
if you don't find it beneficial, or if you don't feel led, don't worry about it.
I think all christians have the ability to speak in tongues... if you find it edifying to yourself or those around you, then continue, certainly...
if you don't find it beneficial, or if you don't feel led, don't worry about it.
As a born again believer, I experienced the subsequent baptism of the Holy Spirit. The baptism of the Holy Spirit does occur at salvation sometimes, but for the most part, it occurs at a later time. I experienced tongues years later, although I know I could have spoken in tongues earlier had I been taught more about it by leaders who understood it, and if I had learned to submit my voice to the Spirit of God earlier.
Speaking in tongues in prayer is ALWAYS BENEFICIAL and powerful, as God loves to edify His people, and we don't need to wait to feel led to employ tongues. In fact, we need to pray in tongues often, as Paul did and as Paul recommended.
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Speaking in tongues in prayer is ALWAYS BENEFICIAL and powerful, as God loves to edify His people, and we don't need to wait to feel led to employ tongues. In fact, we need to pray in tongues often, as Paul did and as Paul recommended.
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Nothing overt HAS to happen when one simply asks God for the baptism of the Holy Spirit. He promises to baptize us and so we can ask for it and know that we will receive it. As for me, I received tongies as I asked for it. In faith I received it, and in faith I stepped out and employed it.
It is ALWAYS beneficial to us, according to God's word. To say it wasn't for you is short-sighted and a statement of unbelief.
It is ALWAYS beneficial to us, according to God's word. To say it wasn't for you is short-sighted and a statement of unbelief.
That is an unfair statement dont you think?
Im not going to argue with you and it is not my desire to do so but it kind of comes off like you have more belief than those that disagree with you.
I am convinced that the pentecostal movement is convinced that they have more of the holy spirit than those of us that dont have the utterance. I dont find this kind of focus to be unifying but it creates division. So, I try to not focus on it.
In the first place, the terminology is off. Unless you are edifying the body of Christ as scripture suggests with two or more speaking at the same gathering and interpreting each others tongue; it is not speaking in tongues but it is an utterance given to you for prayer to the Father.
I have NEVER witnessed examples of the biblical accounts.
context. 
It hurts me to admit that I agree with BIDH. But Paul DID stand in front of the believers and say two things... First, that he spoke in tongues more than any of them. And, secondly, that they should desire gifts (including tongues), indicating that obviously someone was not speaking in tongues.
I've spoken in tongues for more than 30 years, but I do not believe NOT doing that is an indicator of someone's Salvation.
I've spoken in tongues for more than 30 years, but I do not believe NOT doing that is an indicator of someone's Salvation.
All believers have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit whether or not they speak in tongues. The idea that you would be a believer, walk around for years without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, then suddenly get it years later and evidence this with "tongues" isn't biblical.
ALL believers are indwelt with the Holy Spirit. Here's how you know that a person is a believer: They have the Holy Spirit within them.
The idea that tongues is the evidence of the Holy Spirit isn't a biblical concept. It's an extra-biblical theological idea developed by some denominations. There is absolutely zero biblical support for this. Even Paul's verses about the gifts of the Holy Spirit makes no reference to this. (And, btw, why would Paul leave out such an important teaching for the various churches he taught)?
Theologically speaking, the idea that speaking in tongues is THE evidence of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is a concept that is around 100-120 years old. So, for about 1800 or more years, the Church never taught this. None of the early church fathers taught it. None of the protestant reformers taught it. It wasn't part of the two "Great Awakenings" in the American church.
Thus, you must ask yourself, if it is indeed true that tongues is THE evidence of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, why would God hide this from his Bride for over 1800 years? Would God allow 1800 years worth of people who earnestly seek him to live bereft of the Holy Spirit because they didn't speak in tongues? Obviously, the answer is NO.
Thus, if I must choose between what believers have known for 1800 years (and the excellent company this puts me in...Chrysostom, Anselm, St. John of the Cross, St. Theresa of Avila, Luther, Calvin, Wycliffe, Wesley, etc.), or an idea developed very recently, I'm going with the tried-and-true theological concept.
ALL believers are indwelt with the Holy Spirit. Here's how you know that a person is a believer: They have the Holy Spirit within them.
The idea that tongues is the evidence of the Holy Spirit isn't a biblical concept. It's an extra-biblical theological idea developed by some denominations. There is absolutely zero biblical support for this. Even Paul's verses about the gifts of the Holy Spirit makes no reference to this. (And, btw, why would Paul leave out such an important teaching for the various churches he taught)?
Theologically speaking, the idea that speaking in tongues is THE evidence of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is a concept that is around 100-120 years old. So, for about 1800 or more years, the Church never taught this. None of the early church fathers taught it. None of the protestant reformers taught it. It wasn't part of the two "Great Awakenings" in the American church.
Thus, you must ask yourself, if it is indeed true that tongues is THE evidence of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, why would God hide this from his Bride for over 1800 years? Would God allow 1800 years worth of people who earnestly seek him to live bereft of the Holy Spirit because they didn't speak in tongues? Obviously, the answer is NO.
Thus, if I must choose between what believers have known for 1800 years (and the excellent company this puts me in...Chrysostom, Anselm, St. John of the Cross, St. Theresa of Avila, Luther, Calvin, Wycliffe, Wesley, etc.), or an idea developed very recently, I'm going with the tried-and-true theological concept.
Absolutely! I have never heard anyone say that tongues indicates salvation. That would be stupid.
Praying in tongues isn't a command. People can have a full life in Christ, and experience the Holy Spirit's baptism and never submit to the tongues ability. It is not a measure of one's spiritual health to speak or not speak in tongues.
Praying in tongues isn't a command. People can have a full life in Christ, and experience the Holy Spirit's baptism and never submit to the tongues ability. It is not a measure of one's spiritual health to speak or not speak in tongues.
Hello Euphemia,
The claim that all believers speak in languages is false! Paul made that very clear as can be seen from the following:
"And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? Now eagerly desire the greater gifts.
The answer to each of those above is meant to demonstrate that not everyone has the same gifts. When you have so-called churches teaching that a person must speak in tongues as proof of having the Holy Spirit, it produces a bunch of babbling people, because they want to prove that they have the spirit. Some may have the gift of wisdom and knowledge or some other gifts, but not gifts of tongues. That does not mean that they don't have the Holy Spirit. The gift of tongues was one of the outward signs at the on-set of the church as a demonstration of the power of the Spirit and the validity of the gospel, as was the gift of prophecy and healing, etc. The bottom line is, not everyone has the gift of tongues and to teach that would be to discourage or destroy the faith of some.
The claim that all believers speak in languages is false! Paul made that very clear as can be seen from the following:
"And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? Now eagerly desire the greater gifts.
The answer to each of those above is meant to demonstrate that not everyone has the same gifts. When you have so-called churches teaching that a person must speak in tongues as proof of having the Holy Spirit, it produces a bunch of babbling people, because they want to prove that they have the spirit. Some may have the gift of wisdom and knowledge or some other gifts, but not gifts of tongues. That does not mean that they don't have the Holy Spirit. The gift of tongues was one of the outward signs at the on-set of the church as a demonstration of the power of the Spirit and the validity of the gospel, as was the gift of prophecy and healing, etc. The bottom line is, not everyone has the gift of tongues and to teach that would be to discourage or destroy the faith of some.
K
First it is only one of the gifts given to us by the Holy Spirit, and not all will receive this gift....
(1 Corinthians 14:5 Apostle Paul makes it clear not all will speak in tongues)
Second baptism of the Holy Spirit is what is done when one is born again and the Holy Spirit placed in them, not the receiving of the gifts.
Third there is only two tongues mentioned in the bible:
a) Human languages rather it be English, Spanish, German, Japanese, Chinese, and etc......
b) Prayer language of the angels, only to be done in silent in personal prayers to God.......
Babbling out loud noises from the mouth in the congregation is not one of them mentioned as that is not the gift of tongues from the Holy Spirit !!!
Gifts are ministered to us and through us by the Holy Spirit as it serves God's will, we can seek these gifts but we must understand that God gives them when it serves His purpose !!!
C
Probably going to step on toes here. In fact, I know I will.
I personally believe that speaking in tongues is Biblical, but that what passes for speaking in "tongues" in the vast majority of today's churches isn't really speaking in tongues.
Here's why:
- In every recorded instance of tongues being given as a gift of the Holy Spirit (for a sign), it is a discernible language understood by the foreigners around them. These foreigners are amazed to each hear their own language. It is a sign from God to them show His power and that these men are truly anointed with the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit.
- Paul states very clearly (1 Corinthians 14:23) that if everyone in the church is speaking in different "tongues" then they will be considered crazy (interesting that churches who "speak in tongues" completely ignore this... and as a result are thought of as being crazy by outsiders). By whom will they be considered crazy? By the unbelievers and the unlearned. This implies to me that it is a knowable language because no amount of education can teach you to understand gibberish.
- Paul says that the gift of tongues is for a sign to unbelievers. Shouting incoherently doesn't really have the effect of convincing people that it's a miracle being performed by the one true God, but someone miraculously speaking your native tongue when they couldn't do it before could certainly be taken as a true sign.
- Corinth (the book of 1 Corinthians is where you'll find the big cache of verses about speaking in tongues) was a culturally diverse city. Congregations of Christians would have probably been multi-ethnic.
- 1 Corinthians 14:33 -- "God is not the author of confusion..." I'm not trying to be unkind, but what passes as tongues in most churches is... confusing gibberish.
- Experience bears it out. When I first got saved (and it wasn't no cute, quite conversion, either... it was a hellfire struggle followed by Holy Ghost-instituted jumping around and crying and shouting and laughing and hugging people and making restitutions -- the happiest day of my life, EVER!), I did not speak in tongues. And I've never spoken in tongues, except for when I experimentally tried incoherently babbling once. (I didn't feel any better for it, by the way.) It is also borne out by the experience of one of the most godly men I know, who visited a Pentecostal tent meeting once (when he didn't get "slain in the Spirit," -- he was actually laying his hands on people, squeezing their forehead and temples hard, and then pushing them over -- or speak in "tongues," this preacher said my friend was Satan. This friend of mine is a solid Christian man who lives what he preaches and believes strongly in miracles and has healed many people). My friend also knew someone who went to a church where "tongues" was taught. This friend observed people taking turns standing up and speaking in "tongues" and other people standing up and taking turns interpreting. He knew the Lord's prayer in Greek, and stood up and spoke it. Someone on the other side of the room stood up to interpret and... said something completely different, of course. I know of multiple people who backslid, got involved in a church that preached tongues, and are willing to swear in a court of law that they became demon-possessed when they had hands laid on them to receive "tongues" (they got saved later and ran from the "tongues movement" as fast as they possibly could go.) I would like to add that none of the very deeply godly, prayerful, Spirit-filled people in my life speak in tongues.
- A friend of mine, who I do believe is a Christian and a good man, speaks in tongues in his church. We've discussed his points of view and mine. He said that "Speaking in tongues helps you to get the Spirit." I told pointed out that, in the Bible, speaking in tongues only happens after you've already been blessed by the Holy Spirit.
- Anyone with vocal cords can imitate what is done in most "tongues"-speaking churches.
What I think Biblical speaking in tongues is:
- I believe it is the spontaneous speaking of an actual language that you did not know before, given as a gift from God for His glory and to help communicate with the lost, or with believers who need edification.
Why I think this:
- This is borne out by every recorded event in the Bible where God gave his children the gift of tongues.
- It is compatible with every Scripture pertaining to speaking in tongues, such as what Paul wrote.
- It is borne out by experience. I know of many instances where a missionary needed to communicate in a language they didn't understand and God made them perfectly understandable to whom they were speaking. By contrast, I know of a Pentecostal preacher who was visiting a tent meeting in a country where he didn't speak the language; the Holy Spirit came down powerfully without a word being preached, and the altars were lined with people seeking God... and you know what he said? "If only I could speak the language!" Huh. I know of a woman who didn't speak Hebrew, and was reciting the 23rd Psalm (as far as she was aware) in English... and totally freaked out a rabbi who exclaimed that she was saying the 23rd Psalm in perfect Hebrew. God was using the man's own tongue to convince this Jewish rabbi that this Christian woman really was of God.
I hope I haven't offended anyone terribly, but that's my take on it. It's a bit TL;DR, I know. I'm not saying that if you speak in "tongues" you aren't a Christian. But I question whether popular "tongues" isn't something people came up with on their own...or if it isn't an outright scam set up by someone darker to discredit God's people.
Love all of you guys, God bless.
I personally believe that speaking in tongues is Biblical, but that what passes for speaking in "tongues" in the vast majority of today's churches isn't really speaking in tongues.
Here's why:
- In every recorded instance of tongues being given as a gift of the Holy Spirit (for a sign), it is a discernible language understood by the foreigners around them. These foreigners are amazed to each hear their own language. It is a sign from God to them show His power and that these men are truly anointed with the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit.
- Paul states very clearly (1 Corinthians 14:23) that if everyone in the church is speaking in different "tongues" then they will be considered crazy (interesting that churches who "speak in tongues" completely ignore this... and as a result are thought of as being crazy by outsiders). By whom will they be considered crazy? By the unbelievers and the unlearned. This implies to me that it is a knowable language because no amount of education can teach you to understand gibberish.
- Paul says that the gift of tongues is for a sign to unbelievers. Shouting incoherently doesn't really have the effect of convincing people that it's a miracle being performed by the one true God, but someone miraculously speaking your native tongue when they couldn't do it before could certainly be taken as a true sign.
- Corinth (the book of 1 Corinthians is where you'll find the big cache of verses about speaking in tongues) was a culturally diverse city. Congregations of Christians would have probably been multi-ethnic.
- 1 Corinthians 14:33 -- "God is not the author of confusion..." I'm not trying to be unkind, but what passes as tongues in most churches is... confusing gibberish.
- Experience bears it out. When I first got saved (and it wasn't no cute, quite conversion, either... it was a hellfire struggle followed by Holy Ghost-instituted jumping around and crying and shouting and laughing and hugging people and making restitutions -- the happiest day of my life, EVER!), I did not speak in tongues. And I've never spoken in tongues, except for when I experimentally tried incoherently babbling once. (I didn't feel any better for it, by the way.) It is also borne out by the experience of one of the most godly men I know, who visited a Pentecostal tent meeting once (when he didn't get "slain in the Spirit," -- he was actually laying his hands on people, squeezing their forehead and temples hard, and then pushing them over -- or speak in "tongues," this preacher said my friend was Satan. This friend of mine is a solid Christian man who lives what he preaches and believes strongly in miracles and has healed many people). My friend also knew someone who went to a church where "tongues" was taught. This friend observed people taking turns standing up and speaking in "tongues" and other people standing up and taking turns interpreting. He knew the Lord's prayer in Greek, and stood up and spoke it. Someone on the other side of the room stood up to interpret and... said something completely different, of course. I know of multiple people who backslid, got involved in a church that preached tongues, and are willing to swear in a court of law that they became demon-possessed when they had hands laid on them to receive "tongues" (they got saved later and ran from the "tongues movement" as fast as they possibly could go.) I would like to add that none of the very deeply godly, prayerful, Spirit-filled people in my life speak in tongues.
- A friend of mine, who I do believe is a Christian and a good man, speaks in tongues in his church. We've discussed his points of view and mine. He said that "Speaking in tongues helps you to get the Spirit." I told pointed out that, in the Bible, speaking in tongues only happens after you've already been blessed by the Holy Spirit.
- Anyone with vocal cords can imitate what is done in most "tongues"-speaking churches.
What I think Biblical speaking in tongues is:
- I believe it is the spontaneous speaking of an actual language that you did not know before, given as a gift from God for His glory and to help communicate with the lost, or with believers who need edification.
Why I think this:
- This is borne out by every recorded event in the Bible where God gave his children the gift of tongues.
- It is compatible with every Scripture pertaining to speaking in tongues, such as what Paul wrote.
- It is borne out by experience. I know of many instances where a missionary needed to communicate in a language they didn't understand and God made them perfectly understandable to whom they were speaking. By contrast, I know of a Pentecostal preacher who was visiting a tent meeting in a country where he didn't speak the language; the Holy Spirit came down powerfully without a word being preached, and the altars were lined with people seeking God... and you know what he said? "If only I could speak the language!" Huh. I know of a woman who didn't speak Hebrew, and was reciting the 23rd Psalm (as far as she was aware) in English... and totally freaked out a rabbi who exclaimed that she was saying the 23rd Psalm in perfect Hebrew. God was using the man's own tongue to convince this Jewish rabbi that this Christian woman really was of God.
I hope I haven't offended anyone terribly, but that's my take on it. It's a bit TL;DR, I know.
I'm not saying that if you speak in "tongues" you aren't a Christian. But I question whether popular "tongues" isn't something people came up with on their own...or if it isn't an outright scam set up by someone darker to discredit God's people. Love all of you guys, God bless.