Are You Pro-Life?

[Mitspa]

But all criminal defendants in New York — especially those charged with serious crimes — continue to be protected by a formidable collection of safeguards.In addition to basic protection by the state and U.S. constitutions (in the latter case via the attendant Bill of Rights), trial procedure, evidence standards, jury selection and general standards of proof are all slanted heavily in favor of the defendant.

 

[KennethC]

My heart breaks for those innocently locked away. Thank you for sharing.

People don't know this because our main stream media sources don't spend much time on it, but there is at least two people a year released from prison that were initially found guilty that new evidence came out showing they were innocent all along !!!

There are other lies out about that people have fallen for such as that as "lie detector's".

I found out through research that they are not 90 to 99.9998..... percent accurate as they claim !!!

There are many variables that can mess with the results including that of medical, and in the system they consider a inconclusive result as failed !!!

They will not admit this openly though the true inaccuracy of lie detector's because all cases of the past could be reviewed or dismissed that was determined on such results, and show a failure within the system.

This is why now days they are being deemed inadmissible in court !!!

 

[KennethC]

Ro 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

This is a common passage used to defend such things as the death penalty, however this does in no way override how we are told to live by the Lord Jesus and how we are to treat others including those considered enemies.

It also does not change the fact that the bible shows that if man's laws do not follow His, we are not to obey them, we are to obey Him over man !!!

The problem is the system is not doing this to just evil men, they are corrupted and placing innocent people and those not proven guilty of anything yet behind bars !!!

Should we defend a system that has moved so far away from seeking out truth ???? NO !!!

 

[santuzza]

Since capital punishment is so rare, are you indirectly saying that the people who aren't put to death "escape justice"? Are you saying if the potentially guilty person isn't put to death, but rather sentenced to life in prison, the family doesn't receive any restitution whatsoever?

Yes, in my opinion, a convicted murderer who is not put to death escapes justice. But we've already went through that and we disagree. There is no restitution for the victim's family -- what could there be accept "closure" upon the execution of the convicted murderer. So I guess the argument for restitution is a bit moot -- no one can make up for that loss.

But it does astonish me somewhat how passionately you want to protect the convicted murderer (or as you say "potentially guilty person") without regard for the feelings of the victims family/friends. By the way, in our justice system, one is innocent until proven guilty. Once they are proven guilty in a court of law, they are a convict -- convicted murderer, not a "potentially guilty person." If a jury convicts someone, he/she is guilty until an appeals court overturns the conviction. A guilty person can also be pardoned or his/her sentence commuted. Let's not obfuscate the issue by saying the convicted murderer is "potentially guilty."

Question: Do they really give murderers parole in the US?

Yes, they do. On very rare occasions they will sentence someone to life in prison without parole, but most of the time, convicted murderers can apply for parole and sometimes get it.

 

[KennethC]

Yes, in my opinion, a convicted murderer who is not put to death escapes justice. But we've already went through that and we disagree. There is no restitution for the victim's family -- what could there be accept "closure" upon the execution of the convicted murderer. So I guess the argument for restitution is a bit moot -- no one can make up for that loss.

But it does astonish me somewhat how passionately you want to protect the convicted murderer (or as you say "potentially guilty person") without regard for the feelings of the victims family/friends. By the way, in our justice system, one is innocent until proven guilty. Once they are proven guilty in a court of law, they are a convict -- convicted murderer, not a "potentially guilty person." If a jury convicts someone, he/she is guilty until an appeals court overturns the conviction. A guilty person can also be pardoned or his/her sentence commuted. Let's not obfuscate the issue by saying the convicted murderer is "potentially guilty."



Yes, they do. On very rare occasions they will sentence someone to life in prison without parole, but most of the time, convicted murderers can apply for parole and sometimes get it.

What is your stance on LOVE, MERCY, and FORGIVENESS ???

Those three things the Lord Jesus said we are to live by, and this does not just apply to victims as we are told to do the same with those considered our enemies.

Also what is your stance the bible shows we are not to decide the life and death of somebody ???

I know the OT states and supports it, but the NT standards the Lord laid out does not !!!

 

[Angela53510]

Or, you could be like Canada and abolish the death penalty. Then mass murderer and child killers like Clifford Olsen can get life in prison, which is only 20 years. Except with good behaviour, the time is halved. So ten years.

So there is a yearly parole meeting in Ottawa to decide if this psychopath should be allowed to be released back into public. And the 13 parents of those kids who were raped and murdered by this man have to fly annually across the country, on their on own dime, to once again say how what he did destroyed their families and lives.

Meanwhile, his ex-wife got the money from his book deal, and lives a happy life. Not that she was responsible, but she did hide him in her church, and everyone thought he was such a great guy.

I think there is a huge difference between the state deciding to execute people, than an individual taking someone's life into their hands. The state has the God given authority to put people to death, which we do not have. Since this whole no capital punishment has had some really bad parts in Canada, I think it would be better if we went back to executing mass murderers, and those who kill cops and prison guards, which is how the law stood for a few years.

Of course, in Canada, we don't execute these mass murderers, but now we are passing a law to allow euthenasia. And that is not just about terminally ill people, but pretty much anyone who wants to die, but are too lazy or scared to do it to themselves.

If you really want to ask a question about pro-life, you would be better off addressing the twin issues of abortion and euthenasia. I am really fearful for my life. I am very disabled, and if I get worse, I might just get written off and conveniently killed. And if you don't think that happens, look into Holland and Belgium. They started with supposedly noble goals of helping the suffering, and they have degenerated into killing bored and depressed people in their 70's, who have a lot to contribute to society.

My daughter was visiting a friend whose husband is a palliative care physician, and he said the fact they are even talking about this euthenasia law shows what a sad state Canadian palliative care is in. There is no reason anyone has to suffer as they die. I know when my father was dying, he was dealt with properly by an excellent palliative care doctor and he did not suffer. As a palliative care chaplain in the past, I can attest to the amazing presence of God in the rooms of the dying, and how much those people have to offer us even on the brink of death.

 

[Mitspa]

This is a common passage used to defend such things as the death penalty, however this does in no way override how we are told to live by the Lord Jesus and how we are to treat others including those considered enemies.

It also does not change the fact that the bible shows that if man's laws do not follow His, we are not to obey them, we are to obey Him over man !!!

The problem is the system is not doing this to just evil men, they are corrupted and placing innocent people and those not proven guilty of anything yet behind bars !!!

Should we defend a system that has moved so far away from seeking out truth ???? NO !!!

Do you think God is confused when He had this written? Or that Paul don't understand the Mercy of God? believe the bible...not a bunch of liberal bleeding heart nonsense.


4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

 

[tannerbrody]

No they just make administrative mistakes and turn them loose upon society. They are looking for a guy right now that was released by mistake.

In Jesus time if a Roman soldier allowed a prisoner to escape he had to serve the rest of the prisoners time. How would that work if the lawyers representing criminals had to go to prison if they got a guilty man off and he committed a second murder?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

An administrative mistake and "allowing a prisoner to escape" are two different things. Show me a perfect prison. The point is that if someone is sentenced to life in prison by mistake they still have hope. If someone is executed by mistake, try explaining that one to their family. "Sorry Mrs. Jones, new DNA evidence has just surfaced showing your loved one wasn't even at the scene of the crime, but ol'sparky lit him up anyway. Sorry for the silly mistake, better luck next time."

 

[tannerbrody]

Or, you could be like Canada and abolish the death penalty. Then mass murderer and child killers like Clifford Olsen can get life in prison, which is only 20 years. Except with good behaviour, the time is halved. So ten years.

So there is a yearly parole meeting in Ottawa to decide if this psychopath should be allowed to be released back into public. And the 13 parents of those kids who were raped and murdered by this man have to fly annually across the country, on their on own dime, to once again say how what he did destroyed their families and lives.

Meanwhile, his ex-wife got the money from his book deal, and lives a happy life. Not that she was responsible, but she did hide him in her church, and everyone thought he was such a great guy.

I think there is a huge difference between the state deciding to execute people, than an individual taking someone's life into their hands. The state has the God given authority to put people to death, which we do not have. Since this whole no capital punishment has had some really bad parts in Canada, I think it would be better if we went back to executing mass murderers, and those who kill cops and prison guards, which is how the law stood for a few years.

Of course, in Canada, we don't execute these mass murderers, but now we are passing a law to allow euthenasia. And that is not just about terminally ill people, but pretty much anyone who wants to die, but are too lazy or scared to do it to themselves.

If you really want to ask a question about pro-life, you would be better off addressing the twin issues of abortion and euthenasia. I am really fearful for my life. I am very disabled, and if I get worse, I might just get written off and conveniently killed. And if you don't think that happens, look into Holland and Belgium. They started with supposedly noble goals of helping the suffering, and they have degenerated into killing bored and depressed people in their 70's, who have a lot to contribute to society.

My daughter was visiting a friend whose husband is a palliative care physician, and he said the fact they are even talking about this euthenasia law shows what a sad state Canadian palliative care is in. There is no reason anyone has to suffer as they die. I know when my father was dying, he was dealt with properly by an excellent palliative care doctor and he did not suffer. As a palliative care chaplain in the past, I can attest to the amazing presence of God in the rooms of the dying, and how much those people have to offer us even on the brink of death.

Euthenasia is permitted in my state as it should be. Maybe your father didn't suffer, but I had a family member who sure did. My uncle had cancer and sometimes death is better. You need to read the story about Brittany Maynard, a young 29 yr old woman with brain cancer. She moved to Oregon so she could live her last days in dignity and compassion by deciding herself when it was time. She wasn't "lazy or bored" like you stated, just someone who knew she was going to die a horribly painful death and wanted control over her destiny while it was still hers. This idea that big brother can tell us what to do with our own bodies even when it doesn't hurt others is wrong. Are drugs wrong? Of course. But Colorado legalized something that people are going to use anyway and gave the choice to legal aged adults to make. The same with abortion. Do I feel it's immoral? Yes, but like another Christian leader former mayor Rudy Guilani said, let the government stay out of peoples buinsess. It's not up to the Hillary Clinton to deciede when life begins. Not everyone in the US is a Christian, let people deciede for themselves and God will punish those that make the wrong decision.

 

[Depleted]

Or if folks mask the argument as "killing babies vs bringing justice to killers" instead of "killing the unborn vs killing the potentially innocent".

Semantics is a fun game for some. Not for me.

Sure it is. You just "played" it yourself. (Might want to learn what semantics is before claiming it's a game.)

 

[KennethC]

Do you think God is confused when He had this written? Or that Paul don't understand the Mercy of God? believe the bible...not a bunch of liberal bleeding heart nonsense.


4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Why must you place the blame on God for the mistakes and wrong doings that men do ???

I get so tired of people making statements like this as if it would be God's or the Lord's fault for the wrongs people do !!!

I will repeat this again that the Lord Jesus clearly taught how we are to treat others, and if we take this passage in Romans 13 to override that, then it is our understanding that is wrong on what is said there !!!

If you want to support a system that is now corrupt, does not care about truth, and puts people behind bars that are innocent or have not been proven guilty of anything yet that is your choice. But I will out of love warn you about being so judgmental over other people's lives, and deciding the life and death on another that the Lord Jesus says we are to leave up to Him !!!

Our war is not over flesh and blood, it is over sin and those who would corrupt the Word of God for their own personal gain, recognition, and power !!!

I do believe the bible, I just don't believe this nonsense of using God's word to inflict our own personal vendetta's and vengeance on another. That is a hate doctrine !!!

 

[KennethC]

Lord Jesus said do not hold anything over on another !!!

Apostle Paul showed that a person with a unforgiving heart does not belong to the Lord !!!


So are you holding anything over on others, or are you in a place where you don't forgive certain people ???

I would strongly urge to go in prayer to God about it and ask Him to soften your heart, because you are walking down a dangerous broad path as those two things do not align with how the Word of God says believers in Christ will act !!!

 

[Depleted]

Do you have any evidence to suggest that if you put someone in life in prison they are "more than likely" going to kill again? Is that what happens to people on death row in the US? This sounds like another myth, just like how it's "more expensive" to keep someone alive in prison than it is to execute them.

Oh boy! You really were trained in the silliness of the humanistic way of thinking. There is enough proof that once you kill a murderer they will never kill again. And "sounds like a myth?" You understand myths as well as you understand semantics. (Not at all for either.) Sorry, I don't work with non-logic. It's just silly double-speak.

 

[sealabeag]

Haven't read anything other than the OP so maybe this has already been mentioned, but your heading is misleading; Pro-Life is actually defined as the opposition to Abortion and Euthanasia. The OP would probably argue that being Pro-Life should = being against all taking of life, however the term "pro-life" already has this definition so another term would have to be used when speaking about being opposed to capital punishment.

 

[Depleted]

How is putting someone in prison for life "protecting" them? Did you not just say in your previous post that you'd rather be put to death? It's easier for you. Now that I argue for life in prison rather, which is more severe in your opinion, in an effort to save the potentially innocent, you're saying it's "protecting"? Either life in prison is worse than capital punishment or it's not. Why are you flip flopping?

Honey? You're not catching this! I'm against prisons too! So please stop telling me what's easier for me, when you don't even have a clue what I think... even after I out-and-out tell you what I think.

 

[sealabeag]

Also, it would have been helpful if you didn't have only the options of "For" and "Against" in the poll. An "In certain circumstances" option would have been helpful.

In my opinion the death penalty can actually be an extremely merciful punishment; think about spending the rest of your life in prison - to me that would be pure Hell. However in giving someone the death penalty you give them a fixed date of death; this gives them an opportunity to repent of their wrongdoing and be reconciled with God. An indefinite term of life in prison wouldn't create such a stark spiritual landscape for the criminal. Also, there are criminals with no intention of reforming their lives, and who are a danger to all who encounter them, and the death penalty is used as a means of self-defense in such cases.

 

[Depleted]

Why must you place the blame on God for the mistakes and wrong doings that men do ???

You mean... something got past God, but he couldn't help it?

 

[jennymae]

Far as I know the US is the only civilized, western country uphelding the CP. Why is that? Is it a treat from good old vigilante law? Last time I checked 32 out of 50 states were carrying out the CP. What are we gaining by putting people to death? Every time a judge is handing down a CP, well it ignites decades and decades and then a decade of petitions, motions, appeals etc etc. Lord knows how much tax payers are spending on appeals. A life term without parol is forgotten instantly and the killer will stay incarcerated to the end...no appeals. Point is, the states are spending so much money on this ancient punishment, money that could have been spent better.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Far as I know the US is the only civilized, western country uphelding the CP. Why is that? Is it a treat from good old vigilante law? Last time I checked 32 out of 50 states were carrying out the CP. What are we gaining by putting people to death? Every time a judge is handing down a CP, well it ignites decades and decades and then a decade of petitions, motions, appeals etc etc. Lord knows how much tax payers are spending on appeals. A life term without parol is forgotten instantly and the killer will stay incarcerated to the end...no appeals. Point is, the states are spending so much money on this ancient punishment, money that could have been spent better.

It's DP.. not CP..

 

[EarsToHear]

Far as I know the US is the only civilized, western country uphelding the CP. Why is that? Is it a treat from good old vigilante law? Last time I checked 32 out of 50 states were carrying out the CP. What are we gaining by putting people to death? Every time a judge is handing down a CP, well it ignites decades and decades and then a decade of petitions, motions, appeals etc etc. Lord knows how much tax payers are spending on appeals. A life term without parol is forgotten instantly and the killer will stay incarcerated to the end...no appeals. Point is, the states are spending so much money on this ancient punishment, money that could have been spent better.

According to Scripture, is our Heavenly Father for, or is He against, capital punishment?