Are You Pro-Life?

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Are you against capital punishment (pro-life)?

  • Total voters
    33
K

KimPetras

Guest
#1
#1
Simple question: Are you for or against capital punishment? Does capital punishment reflect the old covenant or the new covenant?

Secondary question: If taking an innocent man's life is murder, what punishment do you give the state that executes an innocent man that would have been exonerated if he was still alive? Is the state consider to be "murderers"?
 
U

Ugly

Guest
#2
#2
Why give this a title that suggests an abortion topic?
And why is this in the Family section?
 
K

KimPetras

Guest
#3
#3
Ugly said:
Why give this a title that suggests an abortion topic?
And why is this in the Family section?
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I meant to make it in the bible discussion. How do I move it? :(

I thought the title reflected the question I intended to ask.
 
JoyfulFleur

JoyfulFleur

Senior Member
#4
Feb 2, 2014
230
1
18
#4
KimPetras said:
I meant to make it in the bible discussion. How do I move it? :(

I thought the title reflected the question I intended to ask.
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It's okay. :) Pro-life means for life. So technically you didn't mistitle it.

Hm, I believe only a moderator can move this topic to the correct section. You'll have to wait on one of them to do that, I guess.
 
K

KimPetras

Guest
#5
#5
JoyfulFleur said:
It's okay. :) Pro-life means for life. So technically you didn't mistitle it.

Hm, I believe only a moderator can move this topic to the correct section. You'll have to wait on one of them to do that, I guess.
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Thank you! :)

Yes, I made a request for it to be moved. I feel so silly for not double-checking which forum I was in. lol
 
N

NestForASparrow

Member
#6
Feb 10, 2014
131
45
28
#6
I'm Pro-Life across the board. Every life deserves a chance.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#7
#7
The NEW testament upholds the death penalty for criminals ..even for believers ... Now anyone who thinks its ok to kill a innocent baby is just a evil person.
 
santuzza

santuzza

Senior Member
#8
Feb 12, 2013
1,609
38
48
#8
I, like Ugly, think this title is misleading.

With that said, just because I believe in capital punishment does not mean that I'm not pro-life. I'm for the innocent life that was taken by a murderer who took that person's life. The natural consequence of the murderer's action is capital punishment. The murderer is guilty, the life taken was innocent.

I believe in supporting all innocent life (including a baby in the womb).
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#9
Sep 4, 2013
30,193
6,536
113
#9
KimPetras said:
Simple question: Are you for or against capital punishment? Does capital punishment reflect the old covenant or the new covenant?

Secondary question: If taking an innocent man's life is murder, what punishment do you give the state that executes an innocent man that would have been exonerated if he was still alive? Is the state consider to be "murderers"?
Click to expand...
What matters is Capital Punishment is Biblical..............but, in my fleshy weakness, I would find it hard to vote to put someone to death..........just being honest. Capital Punishment has nothing to do with the Two Covenants.

As for your second scenario, as you aren't from the US, maybe in your country there are examples of the State executing innocent people. I am not aware of any innocent person here in the US being executed. Now, some have been found guilty, and sentenced to Death Row, but prior to their execution, Justice ended up being served, and their innocence was found out. The Appeals Process here in the US for Death Row inmates is so long and drug out, that it is almost impossible for an innocent person to be executed.

There may be one that I am not aware of, but I can not think of any instance this has happened, so your question is moot.
 
K

KimPetras

Guest
#10
#10
Mitspa said:
The NEW testament upholds the death penalty for criminals ..even for believers ... Now anyone who thinks its ok to kill a innocent baby is just a evil person.
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Can you point me in the direction of those passages in the NT please?
 
K

KimPetras

Guest
#12
#12
p_rehbein said:
What matters is Capital Punishment is Biblical..............but, in my fleshy weakness, I would find it hard to vote to put someone to death..........just being honest. Capital Punishment has nothing to do with the Two Covenants.

As for your second scenario, as you aren't from the US, maybe in your country there are examples of the State executing innocent people. I am not aware of any innocent person here in the US being executed. Now, some have been found guilty, and sentenced to Death Row, but prior to their execution, Justice ended up being served, and their innocence was found out. The Appeals Process here in the US for Death Row inmates is so long and drug out, that it is almost impossible for an innocent person to be executed.

There may be one that I am not aware of, but I can not think of any instance this has happened, so your question is moot.
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I did a google search of "innocent people put to death US" and there were several sites that listed people who were proven not to have committed the crimes they were convicted of as well as people executed where there was extreme doubt after they discovered new evidence (especially with the advancement of DNA evidence).

To think there has not been one person who was wrongfully convicted and put to death would be saying the system is as accurate as God in filtering out the innocent from the guilty.

It would only take one person innocently put to death to make the case the state is a murderer.
 
K

KimPetras

Guest
#13
#13
The very wrongful execution of Jesus Christ is proof enough that no governing entity can cast judgment and conviction with 100% accuracy.

If you support capital punishment without having 100% certainty, which only God can do, then how can you contest the crucifixion of Jesus Christ on a civil level? While they executed an innocent person, it was well within the ideals of capital punishment and it's less-than-perfect verdicts.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#15
#15
KimPetras said:
Can you point me in the direction of those passages in the NT please?
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sure...

Ro 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

 Now clearly at the time Paul wrote this, capital punishment was very common for criminals.
 
K

KimPetras

Guest
#16
#16
santuzza said:
I, like Ugly, think this title is misleading.

With that said, just because I believe in capital punishment does not mean that I'm not pro-life. I'm for the innocent life that was taken by a murderer who took that person's life. The natural consequence of the murderer's action is capital punishment. The murderer is guilty, the life taken was innocent.

I believe in supporting all innocent life (including a baby in the womb).
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Exactly! The state that wrongfully executes an innocent person is considered a murder (the taking of an innocent life). People give their government too much credit if they think they can be 100% accurate in delivering verdicts/justice. The life of a potential innocent human being is no less special than the life in a woman's womb.

Seeing as you're against the killing of innocent life, shouldn't you protest 100% of capital punishments where there is doubt?
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#17
#17
KimPetras said:
The very wrongful execution of Jesus Christ is proof enough that no governing entity can cast judgment and conviction with 100% accuracy.

If you support capital punishment without having 100% certainty, which only God can do, then how can you contest the crucifixion of Jesus Christ on a civil level? While they executed an innocent person, it was well within the ideals of capital punishment and it's less-than-perfect verdicts.
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We have a very fair system ... in fact the criminals with good lawyers, often have a advantage.

Let me ask you do your support abortion?
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#18
Jun 30, 2015
24,685
13,373
113
#18
KimPetras said:
It would only take one person innocently put to death to make the case the state is a murderer.
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Yes, there are "innocent" people who are convicted and put to death... daily. Some governments are murderous. But a simple wrongful conviction and execution doesn't make the state a murderer. Rather, it makes the state fallible. Murder is the conscious, intentional killing of another for no good reason. Capital punishment for a serious crime is a good reason. We live in a fallen world, and even the most careful legal proceedings may be wrong at times, because they are influenced by fallen humans.

Romans 13:3-4 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from the fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.

A sword is a weapon for killing. This verse is reasonably clear that authorities are God-ordained to use deadly force. Does this mean that the force is only used appropriately? No, of course not, and many authorities who have misused it will answer to the One who gave it. Judgment Day will not be a happy time, but justice will be done.

So what about the innocent one who is convicted in error, and not by malicious intent? His place is to trust in the Lord for eternal justice. He won't be disappointed. Anyone who brings about the conviction of an innocent person by malicious intent will probably answer to God as a murderer him- or herself. And any government which enacts unrighteous laws to make the innocent guilty will also answer to God.

Which would we rather have... a society where the danger of error exists side-by-side with the threat of death for serious crimes, or a society where even the most heinous crimes are treated lightly, and there is no fear of God as a result? I think given the fallen, sinful world we live in, the former would result in a more careful legal system, and overall a better society. But that's just my opinion. :)
 
K

KimPetras

Guest
#19
#19
Mitspa said:
We have a very fair system ... in fact the criminals with good lawyers, often have a advantage.

Let me ask you do your support abortion?
Click to expand...
"Fair" is subjective and isn't perfect. Innocent life has still been taken and will continue to be taken, no matter how "rare" we think it is. Where we can all agree, innocent people have been executed and that's wrong. Yet, people just have an "oops-sorry-for-killing-you" card when it comes to murdering innocent people that were sentenced to die. "The show must go on..."

I'm against the killing of all innocent life. The unborn and the born alike. I'm not just pro-life when it's convenient for me.
 
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M

Mitspa

Guest
#20
#20
KimPetras said:
"Fair" is subjective and isn't perfect. Innocent life has still been taken and will continue to be taken, no matter how "rare" we think it is. Where we can all agree, innocent people have been executed and that's wrong. Yet, people just have an "oops-sorry-for-killing-you" card when it comes to murdering innocent people that were sentenced to die. "The show must go on..."

I'm against the killing of all innocent life. The unborn and the born alike. I'm not just pro-life when it's convenient for me.
Click to expand...
Well babies are innocent ... criminals are criminals and I doubt that anyone on death row is "innocent" ... And its not a matter of convenience its a matter of justice ... The bible tells us that God has ordained they be punished for their evil....
 
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