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Thread: The Marriage Bed Un Defiled?

  1. #1
    DiverDoug
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    Default The Marriage Bed Un Defiled?

    Let me start off saying this is an adult topic. What does undefiled mean? Does this mean all sexual acts between a husband and wife is "okay"? Im 53 and have "been around" and done things I am not proud of. I becaame a Christian at 46 when In jail. I have lived a good life since being saved, doing a good job keeping the LORDS commandments as much as I can. I married a woman, a good woman (but not a Christian), a mother, grandmother, professional, etc. However I find she is insatiable when it comes to sex. Her desires knows few bounds. Intense loud, "gutter" talk comes into play as well as forms of sodomy and kink (no additional people are invovled). I am shocked by the change in her demeanor and personality once the lights go out. I have been told that once married anything goes as long as it doesn't violate Gods laws (like adultry)

    Sex has been the single most detrimental part of my life and has destroyed my life. It ruined my 1st marriage because she did not care for sex and that was all I thought about (and yest those thoughts weren't good thoughts either). Jesus changed me when I accepted Him as my savior and my attitude toward sex changed 180 degrees. Now I feel guilty, dirty, weak and like I have violated Gods intention for sex. Am I wrong here? Is it I who need counseling?

    Doug

  2. #2
    Kuroko
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    Default Re: The Marriage Bed Un Defiled?

    This is a hard one to answer Doug,
    I'll start by saying the exact intention for sex is known only to god, the other part to this answer is that sex is meant for marriage and marriage is meant for those you love. If section A and section B are covered I think your fine on the religious side of things.

    On the personal level I think you might just be finding it weird she's so into it on levels you thought only you in your bad days could have been.
    A) Sex is meant for marriage.
    B) Marriage is meant for those you love.

    Check and check? don't sweat it too much.

    Now, some one might get very literal on me so I'll retort them just quickly :P
    Marriage IS supposed to be one flesh under god, the only other commandment is that we multiply. (consummate our marriage) :P

  3. #3
    gatta
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    Default Re: The Marriage Bed Un Defiled?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiverDoug View Post
    Let me start off saying this is an adult topic. What does undefiled mean? Does this mean all sexual acts between a husband and wife is "okay"?
    The best way to answer a question like that is to go to the bible and look what the meaning of the word is that the writer of Hebrews used:

    amiantos
    1) not defiled, unsoiled
    a) free from that by which the nature of a thing is deformed and debased, or its force and vigour impaired


    The idea here is that the bed is kept pure from adultery.


    Quote Originally Posted by DiverDoug View Post
    I am shocked by the change in her demeanor and personality once the lights go out. I have been told that once married anything goes as long as it doesn't violate Gods laws (like adultry)
    If her behaviour is offensive to you, then before it cause a rift in your marriage, you should maybe sit her down and discuss your feelings with her.


    Quote Originally Posted by DiverDoug View Post
    Jesus changed me when I accepted Him as my savior and my attitude toward sex changed 180 degrees. Now I feel guilty, dirty, weak and like I have violated Gods intention for sex. Am I wrong here? Is it I who need counseling?
    God created sex between a man and a woman for a marriage relationship. He created it to be enjoyed. The enemy corrupted it, like he does with most everything, and uses it as a weapon against us. If your relationship with your wife is limited to just the two of you, you have nothing to be ashamed about or nothing to feel guilty about.

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    Default Re: The Marriage Bed Un Defiled?

    To put it simply without invoking somewhat confusing scripture (being that it is open to interpretation from ten-thousand different viewpoints)...

    You love her, she loves you, you both are married, you aren't committing adultery. Do your thing.

    You should only start to worry if you find yourselves sacrificing chickens before you do the deed...

  5. #5
    Kuroko
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    Default Re: The Marriage Bed Un Defiled?

    I'm pretty sure Truth was only kidding when he said that last part.

    Worry if there's any sacrifice of any kind (unless it's wine) before the deed :P

    Though Gatta makes a good point about the offensive side of things... though that reminds me some girls like it when they feel like they're doing naughty things --_--

    It's a tough one there buddy, suffice it to say as the good book says, your on your own for this one.

  6. #6
    gatta
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    Default Re: The Marriage Bed Un Defiled?

    Quote Originally Posted by TruthIsMyLight View Post
    You should only start to worry if you find yourselves sacrificing chickens before you do the deed...
    ROFL ... very funny!!!

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    Senior Member seoulsearch's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Marriage Bed Un Defiled?

    The only thing is though... even within a marriage, and it sounds like your wife may be victim to this--an "insatiable" sex drive can also mean it's primary foundation is still lust, not love or God's intentions, even if you're married.

    I surely can't speak as an expert, but I would suggest that maybe you and your wife seek out counseling, because in my own observations... this kind of craving for sex, even within marriage, goes beyond normal desires intended by God--it signals the roots of, or hints at, a full-blown addiction that will not be able to be contained within the marriage and will eventually look to outside sources to fuel the constant need for something "more adventurous", which doesn't have to mean other people, but maybe such things as pornography... and you will surely be pulled right into it.

    And yes, I agree with everyone else... please spare the chickens... and goats... and pigs. Not only will it be undefiled sex, but PETA-approved as well!
    "...and I'm cute, but not nice..." -- CatHerder, Streams of Consciousness & Thought

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    Default Re: The Marriage Bed Un Defiled?

    I'm not necessarily sure that you are in a position to speak of what God specifically intended to be conducted by a married couple behind closed doors.

    In saying such, you may be giving bad advice to a person in need of a guiding hand.

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    Senior Member seoulsearch's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Marriage Bed Un Defiled?

    Quote Originally Posted by TruthIsMyLight View Post
    I'm not necessarily sure that you are in a position to speak of what God specifically intended to be conducted by a married couple behind closed doors.

    In saying such, you may be giving bad advice to a person in need of a guiding hand.

    Truth: I was married once. My husband left me for another woman. And this is the reason I posted, because I have some personal experience with the subject.

    But thank you for your concerns.

    Yes, when you get married, there is certainly some leeway as far as what a couple chooses to do and so forth... but if sex becomes the primary focus, then it's become more important than God (if God put it on your heart to not have sex for say, two days, and concentrate on prayer or something else during that time... could both partners be all right with that?)

    And if pornography is used to "give a couple ideas", is that God-pleasing? I'm not saying that it is in this case, as it has not been stated, but I've seen many marriages... Christian ones at that... in a lot of trouble over the kinds of things that were stated in the original post.

    If a couple is engaging in those things and they feel God is 100% approving... (One question I think about is, "If God were watching what I'm watching or doing right now (and we know He is), would I feel ok with that? Would my conscience be clean the next day?") This, of course, is not an absolute, but was once a personal measure and would be again if I got married again.
    "...and I'm cute, but not nice..." -- CatHerder, Streams of Consciousness & Thought

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    Default Re: The Marriage Bed Un Defiled?

    ...Right-o.

    Didn't realize you were the resident expert on the subject. For fear of retribution I'm going to calmly back away from the conversation.

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    Senior Member seoulsearch's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Marriage Bed Un Defiled?

    Quote Originally Posted by TruthIsMyLight View Post
    ...Right-o.

    Didn't realize you were the resident expert on the subject. For fear of retribution I'm going to calmly back away from the conversation.
    Thanks for your full support -- greatly appreciated, and even more so needed, apparently!
    Last edited by seoulsearch; April 11th, 2010 at 08:42 PM.
    "...and I'm cute, but not nice..." -- CatHerder, Streams of Consciousness & Thought

  12. #12
    gatta
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    Default Re: The Marriage Bed Un Defiled?

    Quote Originally Posted by seoulsearch View Post
    ... but if sex becomes the primary focus, then it's become more important than God (if God put it on your heart to not have sex for say, two days, and concentrate on prayer or something else during that time... could both partners be all right with that?)
    Uhm ... aren't we missing the point here?
    Quote Originally Posted by diverdoug View Post
    I am shocked by the change in her demeanor and personality once the lights go out.
    This does not mean that sex is her primary focus. Let's be fair with our comments and not read into it what Doug didn't post.

    In so far as their spiritual life: Doug also said that his wife is not a christian.
    Quote Originally Posted by diverdoug View Post
    I married a woman, a good woman (but not a Christian), a mother, grandmother, professional, etc.
    Communication is one of the most important parts of ANY relationship. And if two people love one another, their aim should be to serve the other person. If these matters are discussed in a loving manner beween the two parties, more often than not a solution is found.

    Marriage is sacred and the parties should be encouraged to grow together into a strong relationship.

    Doug, talk to your wife about it. Tell her how you feel, and work from there.

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    Senior Member seoulsearch's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Marriage Bed Un Defiled?

    Quote Originally Posted by gatta View Post
    Uhm ... aren't we missing the point here?

    This does not mean that sex is her primary focus. Let's be fair with our comments and not read into it what Doug didn't post.

    In so far as their spiritual life: Doug also said that his wife is not a christian.

    Communication is one of the most important parts of ANY relationship. And if two people love one another, their aim should be to serve the other person. If these matters are discussed in a loving manner beween the two parties, more often than not a solution is found.

    Marriage is sacred and the parties should be encouraged to grow together into a strong relationship.

    Doug, talk to your wife about it. Tell her how you feel, and work from there.

    I don't think I was altogether "reading" into what Doug didn't post, as one of the things he mentioned that caught my eye was his wife's penchant for "loud, gutter talk" during sex, as well as some acts that seemed to make him a little uneasy.

    Now, I could be misreading a sentence like that, and if I am, I'm sorry, but I was assuming a statement like this meant that one of the preferences may be calling the other person names or wanting them to call that person names... referring to sex acts in raw, crude terms, etc.

    Doug also stated that he is shocked by some of his wife's behavior. And yes, I do understand that he said his wife isn't a Christian.

    But from the tone of his post, he doesn't seem altogether comfortable with what's going on and if his feelings are being hurt or if he constantly feels offended or put down, then of course communication is they key--and he also asked if he should consider counseling, which doesn't seem like a bad idea, which was what I was trying to say.
    "...and I'm cute, but not nice..." -- CatHerder, Streams of Consciousness & Thought

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    Default Re: The Marriage Bed Un Defiled?

    I know that some christians interpret that verse to mean that anything goes in the bedroom. That is not the case if both are christian. Sodomy for example is disrespectful to a person's body and a christian wife would not allow it at all. The bible says to treat ones vessel (i.e. his wife) with respect and not in lustful desire as the heathen. I would think the rules are relaxed a little for non-christian spouses. But even if she is non-christian, the wife should still respect the wishes of the husband so if you say NO, she should be OK with that.

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    Senior Member seoulsearch's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Marriage Bed Un Defiled?

    Quote Originally Posted by MahogonySnail View Post
    I know that some christians interpret that verse to mean that anything goes in the bedroom. That is not the case if both are christian. Sodomy for example is disrespectful to a person's body and a christian wife would not allow it at all. The bible says to treat ones vessel (i.e. his wife) with respect and not in lustful desire as the heathen. I would think the rules are relaxed a little for non-christian spouses. But even if she is non-christian, the wife should still respect the wishes of the husband so if you say NO, she should be OK with that.
    *Nods at MS's thoughts.*

    The other thing I found interesting about Doug's posts is that he said he'd come to Christ while in jail... Doug, if I am reading too much or offending you in any way, please let me know and accept my apologies in advance.

    Some time ago, I was in a Master's program for psychology, with an interest in criminal and abnormal psych, as well as deviant sexual behaviors (and no, I am NOT, NOT, NOT in any way, shape or form trying to say that you or your wife are criminals or deviants AT ALL, NOR am I trying to be any kind of expert here--rather, I'm just trying to explain that my vantage point may be a little different from others.)

    I have also spent the last several years talking to, corresponding with, and visiting inmates, so I have a small glimpse as to what that kind of atmosphere can do to a person's heart and thinking.

    I surely admire Doug for wanting to both follow God with all his heart and also respect his wife's wishes.

    I was just thinking of one particular inmate I used to correspond with--being in an environment in which it's common to witness men having sex with other men, and in various ways, I know that this particular inmate would have been deathly uncomfortable if he had married a woman who asked her to perform the kinds of acts he saw men doing to each other on a daily basis, even if that's what she told him her preference was.

    And, this may or may not be the case, but something else that seems to be common is that many people who ask for extremes (the name calling, etc.) have often been abused at some point, which is, again, why counseling seemed like a viable option if Doug and his wife should decide to do so, and if she is unwilling but he still feels uncomfortable, counseling for him alone might help ease some of the feelings he's having.
    "...and I'm cute, but not nice..." -- CatHerder, Streams of Consciousness & Thought

  16. #16
    DiverDoug
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    Default Re: The Marriage Bed Un Defiled?

    I want to thankl everyone for their responses. I felt because of my past I am particulary sensitive to sex much like an alcoholic who truly wants to stay sober stays away from a bar or a gambler from a casino. Prior to becoming a Christian a women like this would have been a dream come true. My desiires then are on the same plane with my new current wife but were totally different than my wiife of 24 years. That difference lead to a hard divorce. Anyway not getting what i wanted at home lead to other things that lead to other things. God opened my eyes to the seriousness of my actions and desires and so I wanted and did "clean myself up" and realize sex is not a sport but an intimate act. I realized I do need to be repsectful during sex because of the Hoy Spirit in us and because God is watching and I am not proud of what He sees. In fact, that goes through my mind during the act. I also think of Joesph running from Pottifors wife so that he woouldn't sin! I don't invite those thought they just pop into my mind. That tends to make me think the Holy Spirit si telling me I am doing wrong.

    The thing is I see myself lingering a little longer at the women at t he beach, or on tv shows with seductive women, etc , etc. It seems like I am slowly heading down to the place I was before my conversion. Sex play doesn't satisfy my sex drive, it whets' it more. Doing one makes me more inclined to do the other or go further and I know I won't be able to resist. Already what we do makes me uneasy when I go to church. An example, I am strong enough to keep Oreos out of my shopping basket but it they get in my pantry, those puppies are eaten in just a few days! I don't want to be where I was before, both for my sake and to honor God.

    Ultimately it boils down to I feel uncomfortable and don't like the extent to which we go (during sex). We have talked about this before and things are ok for awhile but slip back. I always feel bad afterwards. Whether it is the Holy Spirit or Satan convicting me of doing a wrong deed I shouldn't feel bad. I guess consuling with a Christian inclined conselor is next and see where it goes.

    Thank you everyone.

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    Senior Member Gabriel777's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Marriage Bed Un Defiled?

    First of all try to convert her, if not then everything will fail. You MUST base your marriage on the Rock and not on sand. About those desires of hers, I have to agree that it's lust and love.

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    Senior Member seoulsearch's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Marriage Bed Un Defiled?

    Doug,

    I wish you the very best and really admire you for wanting to stay on the straight and narrow--we all have our struggles and it's great that you're seeking help in working through things. You're certainly not the only person struggling with these thoughts and feelings and that's one of the ways the devil tricks us--he tries to make us think we're the only one, abnormal, or beyond God's reach. One of the best things we can do is reach out to others and ask for help, just as you're doing!

    We'll pray for you and ask that God will place understanding, compassionate people in your life to help you along.

    God bless, take care, and if you want, keep us posted of how it's going.
    "...and I'm cute, but not nice..." -- CatHerder, Streams of Consciousness & Thought

  19. #19
    Kuroko
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    Default Re: The Marriage Bed Un Defiled?

    This one might just take time, let your bedroom personality rub off on her :P

    What I'm trying to say is, let your intimacy be the focus over her crudeness and you'll find it might be that she's just never known the more intimate path.

    Example: a perfectly maintained garden without a single leaf or piece of rubbish is FAR less likely to have some one drop rubbish onto it over a parking lot which is already littered and soiled.

    Or if you have ever been in a meticulously cleaned house you will be more conscious of the actions you take and the mess you leave behind.

    Let her become conscious of it, that might just take time.

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    Senior Member QuestionTime's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Marriage Bed Un Defiled?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiverDoug View Post
    The thing is I see myself lingering a little longer at the women at t he beach, or on tv shows with seductive women, etc , etc. It seems like I am slowly heading down to the place I was before my conversion. Sex play doesn't satisfy my sex drive, it whets' it more. Doing one makes me more inclined to do the other or go further and I know I won't be able to resist. Already what we do makes me uneasy when I go to church. An example, I am strong enough to keep Oreos out of my shopping basket but it they get in my pantry, those puppies are eaten in just a few days! I don't want to be where I was before, both for my sake and to honor God.

    Sounds to me DiverDoug like you are living under the Law:


    Romans 7:5-6 (King James Version)
    5For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
    6But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

    The more you try to keep the Law the more you will be pulled to sin. God has "delivered" you from the Law. Now you are supposed to live by faith. So stop your striving to obey, and start trusting Jesus that you are saved, purified, loved, holy and dead to sin. Stop striving and start trusting/believing God's promises. If you don't get out from this "have to gather straw and make bricks" lie of satan, you will go right back to your old sinful ways. Salvation from all sinful desire is a free gift by Faith Alone.

    Quest
    Last edited by QuestionTime; April 13th, 2010 at 04:47 PM.
    Acts 26:18 "to open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me."

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