We had a 2 hour church service today with a visiting "missions" pastor who basically gave a salesman type of service for 2 hours on funding their ministry to train new pastors to go out and serve in India and several other countries. He went on and on about it costing $3,000 to train a pastor and asked for money over 15 times during the service saying that this is what God called us to do. Honestly, we left there feeling very depressed (the whole service was sad - showing films on poor children living in the slums in India, etc) and just such a push for money, money, money. This went on for 2 hours solid. What bugs is me that I felt leaving feeling battered and just bummed out. Is this normal? I like going to church and serving (I volunteer a lot at church, have done some mission work, etc), and I love coming out of church feeling motivated and refreshed for another few days - but today was different. Is it wrong for our pastor to bring someone in to do this, or is it wrong for me to feel so blah about it?
Confused @ church
- Thread starter Cindy12
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I certainly don't blame you for feeling blah either. I'll never forget hearing a sermon in which the Pastor made a challenge to his congregation to give 10% of their income for 90 days and if God does not bless them then he will give them their money back.
That same Pastor legalistically used the 10% tithe to brow-beat people in that church with guilt. He was even handing out pledge cards that day for people to fill out so they can pledge to give extra money on a monthly basis over a three year period above and beyond the 10% tithe directly to the "moving forward" project to build a new mega church (which they did not need). More than a few people have left that church because all that Pastor mainly talked about is money (primarily the 10% tithe) and building that new mega church.
During that sermon, he even mentioned that a member of that church came into his office one day somewhat irate and said that he is leaving that church because he is tired of hearing about money all the time and needs to find a church where he can go "deeper in the Word." The Pastor mentioned that the word "deeper" is a code word for "I'm not tithing 10%." The Pastor went on to say that he checked the records and sure enough that member of the church was not giving 10% and some months gave nothing at all and then acted like good riddance to him!
We never went back to that church after that!
That same Pastor legalistically used the 10% tithe to brow-beat people in that church with guilt. He was even handing out pledge cards that day for people to fill out so they can pledge to give extra money on a monthly basis over a three year period above and beyond the 10% tithe directly to the "moving forward" project to build a new mega church (which they did not need). More than a few people have left that church because all that Pastor mainly talked about is money (primarily the 10% tithe) and building that new mega church.
During that sermon, he even mentioned that a member of that church came into his office one day somewhat irate and said that he is leaving that church because he is tired of hearing about money all the time and needs to find a church where he can go "deeper in the Word." The Pastor mentioned that the word "deeper" is a code word for "I'm not tithing 10%." The Pastor went on to say that he checked the records and sure enough that member of the church was not giving 10% and some months gave nothing at all and then acted like good riddance to him!
We never went back to that church after that!
The problem really is why is there so little support for this ministry, that they have to guilt trip people
into supporting it. It sounds like the approach they are taking is not of the Lord, but a purely financial
one. Once it has got to this level, it is all out of the window.
People will always give where the Lord is working powerfully, but this does not come by worldly means,
rather this is often the beginning of the end.
Our church had been wanting to raise money for a major rebuild, but the pastor got more caught up in
this, and ended up saying giving towards this project would be the most significant thing they would do
in their whole lives. Needless to say, the money never came in.
Roll forward a few years, he retired, new pastor, talking about ministry, needs in the community, getting
people to reach out, the benefits new premises would help these ministries, and the money flowed, the
project took off, and 7 years later things are going strong.
The enemy often gets us to look at the physical, and become envious of others wealth, rather than look
to Him and preach salvation, massive difference.
into supporting it. It sounds like the approach they are taking is not of the Lord, but a purely financial
one. Once it has got to this level, it is all out of the window.
People will always give where the Lord is working powerfully, but this does not come by worldly means,
rather this is often the beginning of the end.
Our church had been wanting to raise money for a major rebuild, but the pastor got more caught up in
this, and ended up saying giving towards this project would be the most significant thing they would do
in their whole lives. Needless to say, the money never came in.
Roll forward a few years, he retired, new pastor, talking about ministry, needs in the community, getting
people to reach out, the benefits new premises would help these ministries, and the money flowed, the
project took off, and 7 years later things are going strong.
The enemy often gets us to look at the physical, and become envious of others wealth, rather than look
to Him and preach salvation, massive difference.
Don't allow others to tell you what God has told you to do. Let God guide you personally. I would surmise that the reason your pastor allowed this guy to monopolize the church service is that if the visitor was scheduled to talk outside of the service very few would attend. I personally feel that there are more than enough missions in this country to train new pastors to serve rather than shipping them elsewhere around the world. Still, there is nothing wrong in supporting the training of new ministers financially but it is a shame to use the whole service to do this while excluding the worship of God.
L
your feelings are a result of an attempt at trying to manipulate everyone into coughing up $$$$$
probably most of us have had the Pharisaical guilt trip lobbed at us
ask God to release you from this false guilt and refresh your spirit...you can always tell a hireling by the way they concentrate on money or getting crowds or accentuate the physical in some way
looks like we all agree why you felt depressed and also agree that begging for money and emphasizing it week after week, is not a healthy church
this is one reason why I hardly watch any 'religious' programs on TV...they beg for money...some of these so called ministries may have started out with Christ as their focus, but have sadly devolved into a money pit of vile manipulation
so, it's 'normal' to feel the way you did after what you were exposed to...but it's not right
If God is in the ministry then God will fund the ministry. God does not pressure His saints to give. This sounds like a ministry propelled by the will of man and not supported by the will of God.
If a ministry has a need let them pray and trust God to move in hearts to supply the need.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
If a ministry has a need let them pray and trust God to move in hearts to supply the need.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
This is a major reason why I don't tithe. I've been part of a church where a leader has said things like "You give more, you get more" meaning God will give you more in return depending on how much money you give to God. Talk about the prosperity gospel.. That's why I stick to supporting different ministries, rather than specifically tithe.
I certainly don't blame you for feeling blah either. I'll never forget hearing a sermon in which the Pastor made a challenge to his congregation to give 10% of their income for 90 days and if God does not bless them then he will give them their money back.
That same Pastor legalistically used the 10% tithe to brow-beat people in that church with guilt. He was even handing out pledge cards that day for people to fill out so they can pledge to give extra money on a monthly basis over a three year period above and beyond the 10% tithe directly to the "moving forward" project to build a new mega church (which they did not need). More than a few people have left that church because all that Pastor mainly talked about is money (primarily the 10% tithe) and building that new mega church.
During that sermon, he even mentioned that a member of that church came into his office one day somewhat irate and said that he is leaving that church because he is tired of hearing about money all the time and needs to find a church where he can go "deeper in the Word." The Pastor mentioned that the word "deeper" is a code word for "I'm not tithing 10%." The Pastor went on to say that he checked the records and sure enough that member of the church was not giving 10% and some months gave nothing at all and then acted like good riddance to him!
We never went back to that church after that!
That same Pastor legalistically used the 10% tithe to brow-beat people in that church with guilt. He was even handing out pledge cards that day for people to fill out so they can pledge to give extra money on a monthly basis over a three year period above and beyond the 10% tithe directly to the "moving forward" project to build a new mega church (which they did not need). More than a few people have left that church because all that Pastor mainly talked about is money (primarily the 10% tithe) and building that new mega church.
During that sermon, he even mentioned that a member of that church came into his office one day somewhat irate and said that he is leaving that church because he is tired of hearing about money all the time and needs to find a church where he can go "deeper in the Word." The Pastor mentioned that the word "deeper" is a code word for "I'm not tithing 10%." The Pastor went on to say that he checked the records and sure enough that member of the church was not giving 10% and some months gave nothing at all and then acted like good riddance to him!
We never went back to that church after that!
So many things obviously wrong with that one... 10% "tithe"... "challenging" God... browbeating members of the body... even publicly ridiculing a member for "not tithing 10%".... but the kicker is that he "checked the records" to see what that member had been giving... WHAT???? He was keeping RECORDS of what members were giving??
This is perhaps the single BEST reason for not attending a church that is run/controlled by a "pastor/preacher" . His "salary" is totally dependent on how much money he can drum up, which is totally against what scripture tells us our giving should be for.
I have little problem with a preacher being hired by a church... but he should not be working "on commission" in any way, shape, or form. Money given for the work of the church should NEVER be controlled by one person. Even in Acts, the people that sold their things and gave, gave it to the apostles... plural..
L
For I satisfy the weary ones and refresh everyone who languishes Jeremiah 31:35
For they have refreshed my spirit and yours: therefore acknowledge ye them that are such. I Cor. 16:18
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, Titus 3:5
I do wish, brother, that I may have some benefit from you in the Lord; refresh my heart in Christ. Philemon 1:20
K
Ive had wonderful missionaries come to churches Ive attended down through the years. I can't speak to your situation,I wasn't there. But if we are not able or willing to go on the mission field we ought to send someone in our place. Im very big on the support of missions. I have missionary friends and my sister went on a trip recently. Its important to support that outreach.
True, but there are other ways to tithe. I can tithe with my time. My church started a giving ministry for Haiti after suffering Hurricane Matthew. That's where my tithe money has gone.. Last I checked, we are the church. Not some building. Haiti can use that money a lot more. And I'd like to think God sees to it that it gets used the right way.
K
In this instance it sounds like the missionary went overboard in asking for help. But there is nothing wrong with mentioning a need to let people know it is there. It seems many Christians have no problem putting a dollar in the offering and spending 40 at the Cracker Barrel afterward and feel no guilt whatsoever. Again,this person may have been out of line but we should be cheerful givers.