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Thread: Who is celebrating ash Wednesday and lent?

  1. #21
    Senior Member FranC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who is celebrating ash Wednesday and lent?

    Quote Originally Posted by DustyRhodes View Post
    God bless you...it is imperative that we continue to grow in loving our Lord...this is one way of helping our purification...it takes us beyond words and makes it action.
    Faith IS action. It's not a feeling.
    We have before us the New Christianity and the Old Christianity.
    I hesitate to get into this, but I tire of hearing how we are in the Lord and HE does everything for us.
    Jesus insisted on a transformation. He insisted on holiness.
    Holiness is not a scary word ---
    It just means being set aside for God's work.
    And yet "work" has become a word non grata.

    It's signigicant that there were no comments on what I listed except for yours.
    Every single line is a lesson on Easter and the resurrection.

    I thank you for the comment.
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    Senior Member AllenW's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who is celebrating ash Wednesday and lent?

    Quote Originally Posted by FranC View Post
    Repent and believe in the gospel.
    Sackcloth and ashes.
    From dust you come and to dust you shall return.
    40 days to change.
    Prepare your heart for the resurrection.
    From a heart of stone to a heart of flesh.
    Present your bodies a living sacrifice. (Giving up stuff for Lent)
    To rejoice over the resurrection, you must feel pain over Christ's death on the cross.
    I understand what you are saying here.
    The Roman Catholic Church is trying to give it some sort of meaning that the people can relate to.
    What you said above are rituals.
    These rituals are part of the way the RCC runs their business.
    Willie-T likes this.
    I'm a man of many avatars.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member FranC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who is celebrating ash Wednesday and lent?

    Quote Originally Posted by AllenW View Post
    I understand what you are saying here.
    The Roman Catholic Church is trying to give it some sort of meaning that the people can relate to.
    What you said above are rituals.
    These rituals are part of the way the RCC runs their business.
    Please note which of the above are rituals.
    Every single one is a biblical verse and belief
    How is that a ritual?
    BTW
    I'm not Catholic.
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    Default Re: Who is celebrating ash Wednesday and lent?

    Quote Originally Posted by FranC View Post
    Please note which of the above are rituals.
    Every single one is a biblical verse and belief
    How is that a ritual?
    BTW
    I'm not Catholic.
    Just about every ritual most churches enforce originally came from some "interesting" interpretation of a scripture somewhere.
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    Senior Member AllenW's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who is celebrating ash Wednesday and lent?

    Quote Originally Posted by FranC View Post
    Please note which of the above are rituals.
    Every single one is a biblical verse and belief
    How is that a ritual?
    BTW
    I'm not Catholic.
    It's quite simple.
    You write a verse on a card.
    You pick a bunch of verses, then shuffle the cards and "voila", you have a souffle', er, ritual.
    Everything I just wrote is in the Bible, but where is the truth in it?
    By the way, you are a Roman catholic.
    I'm a man of many avatars.
    And that's not all.

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    Senior Member Willie-T's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who is celebrating ash Wednesday and lent?

    Quote Originally Posted by AllenW View Post
    It's quite simple.
    You write a verse on a card.
    You pick a bunch of verses, then shuffle the cards and "voila", you have a souffle', er, ritual.
    Everything I just wrote is in the Bible, but where is the truth in it?
    By the way, you are a Roman catholic.
    How do you determine that? Every single one of our churches (even mine) has their rituals...... doesn't make them RCC.
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    Senior Member FranC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who is celebrating ash Wednesday and lent?

    Quote Originally Posted by AllenW View Post
    It's quite simple.
    You write a verse on a card.
    You pick a bunch of verses, then shuffle the cards and "voila", you have a souffle', er, ritual.
    Everything I just wrote is in the Bible, but where is the truth in it?
    By the way, you are a Roman catholic.
    How do you come to that conclusion?

    Here's what makes a Catholic:
    Belief in confession
    Belief in Transubstantiation
    Belief in Purgatory
    Belief in praying for the dead
    Belief in baptizing infants
    Belief in Justification at baptism
    Belief in the perpetual virginity of Mary
    Belief in Mary as the Queen and Mother of the church

    I do believe in some sort of Tradition
    I do believe that a church should set forth the meaning of scripture or we have the confusion I see on these threads.
    We are NOT theologians. We are NOT Greek scholars, as some here believe they are.
    Walk till you Run
    And don't look back
    For HERE...I AM

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    Senior Member AllenW's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who is celebrating ash Wednesday and lent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    How do you determine that? Every single one of our churches (even mine) has their rituals...... doesn't make them RCC.
    No,it doesn't make them RCC but are they ecumenical?
    Is there really a difference?
    I'm a man of many avatars.
    And that's not all.

  9. #29
    Senior Member FranC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who is celebrating ash Wednesday and lent?

    Quote Originally Posted by AllenW View Post
    No,it doesn't make them RCC but are they ecumenical?
    Is there really a difference?
    What does ecumenical mean anyway??




    What Does It Mean To Be Ecumenical?

    By Thomas Ryan

    Recently a friend asked, “What does ‘being ecumenical’ mean”? It was one of those questions that stops you cold because the answer goes off in so many directions you don’t know where to begin. Later, as an exercise for myself, I took paper and pencil in hand and began to reflect on the lessons of my last twelve years in ecumenical work.

    From the Newsletter
    AT-ONE-MENT January/February 1994, Courtesy of the Graymoor Ecumenical and Interreligious Institute
    What does it mean to be ecumenical? Colleagues and more years of experience will surely supplement what follows, but these are some of the things which, in my experience, “being ecumenical” means:

    To pray regularly for the unity of the Church: As Christ wills it and when he wills it. As theologian Yves Congar said, “The way through the door of unity is on our knees.” Prayer is important because prayer’s effect is in us. Prayer changes our hearts, and it is our hearts that most of all need to be changed.

    To be rooted in a particular Christian tradition: To know it well, and to be able to present the coherency of that tradition’s response to the Gospel to others. The genuine ecumenists are not at the margin of their church’s life, but at the heart of it. They know what is important in the Christian life, and can recognize those elements in other churches even if they may be differently expressed.

    To take an active part in the careful and honest appraisal of whatever needs to be done for the renewal of one’s own church: Ecumenism is not a specialty within the church, but an expression of every dimension of its life. It helps the church to be more the church and to be faithful to her calling. Dialogue is the meeting of churches. The purpose of dialogue is to help one another renew the churches in order to carry out Christ’s mission for his one Church.

    To be fascinated and curious about that which is different: To risk peeping out of our provincial perspectives and opening ourselves to the bigger picture. Ecumenism is a way of living that dares to think globally and live trustfully with differences in community.

    To be willing to learn: Truth is seldom discovered in isolation but rather through dialogue in diverse community. Each Christian tradition has preserved better than others one or more aspects of the mystery of God’s work in Christ. The work of unity aims at restoring the fullness of our common appreciation of that mystery.

    To cultivate an historical consciousness: We’re on a journey. The church we have is not the church God wants. An ecumenically minded person refuses to worship false gods, and the present expression of the church is not God. Similarly, there is a refusal to make absolute a stage of development which is only the next step on the way to something greater.

    To be ready to celebrate vitality in the Body of Christ wherever it is found: What advances the reign of God in any church helps all churches. The churches are not like competing corporations in the business world, so that the stakes of one rises as the lot of others falls. Any loss of divine truth and life is a loss to Christ and his Church. The only triumph a Christian seeks is that of Jesus and his cross. Our rivalry is not with one another, but with sin.

    To be willing to work together: Ecumenism is an understanding of human society that identifies fear of the “other” as one of the greatest evils we face. The principle given to all the churches for their life together is: Do everything together as far as conscience permits.

    To feel the scandal of our divisions: Unity is for mission. Our primary mission is to announce the good news. The message we joyfully proclaim is that we are reconciled to God and to one another through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus. But our divided state as we announce it deprives the message of credibility. “Being ecumenical” means feeling a holy unrest at our failure to live consistently with our message, and more interested in proving our “rightness” and the other’s “wrongness” than in seeking together to know what the Spirit is asking of us, and to do it.

    To be open to God’s will for the Church: Our unity in Christ is God’s gift, and the way to give more visible expression to that gift will also be God’s gift. But we will have to empty ourselves of our self-righteousness and let go of our power games in order to let this be God’s work. Our contribution is our willingness to uncover and surrender whatever prevents our being filled with God.

    To appreciate the important role of provisional regulations and church structures in our evolution from alienation to reconciliation: To accept that the only constant is change, and the only refuge is the insecure security of faith. To struggle against the temptation to live in a closed, same, secure system that reduces our level of fear and satisfies our desires for control. God is a verb. And in the dynamism of the provisional, God’s Spirit is at work, endlessly correcting, improving, adjusting, reorienting. Like a pilgrim’s tent, our best efforts today must be recognized as provisional and be ready to give way to better forms tomorrow for advancing our life together.

    To have an appreciation for the hierarchy of truths in Christian doctrine: A belief has greater or lesser consequences in the measure in which it relates to the foundation of the Christian faith. Grace has more importance than sin, the Holy Spirit more than Mary, the mystical aspect of the Church more than its juridical nature, the church’s liturgy more than private devotions, baptism more than penance, the eucharist more than the anointing of the sick. Placing the greater stress on those doctrines in closest relation to the heart of Christian faith enables us to build further agreement on the firm foundation we share.

    To try to understand others as they understand themselves: To avoid any expression, judgement or action that falsifies their condition. Ecumenical honesty means we do not look upon others through the prism of their weakest elements, or over-generalize their positions with statements like, “Protestants say ...Anglicans do ...Orthodox are ...Catholics will...” Rather, our ideals are put next to their ideals, our practices next to their practices, as opposed to our ideals next to their practices.

    To be alert to the presence of God and the action of the Holy Spirit in the lives of other Christians and members of other living faiths: The Church of God does not have a mission as much as the mission of God has a Church. The Church is the sign and sacrament of God’s presence in the world, but God’s activity is by no means limited to the Church and its members. The Church serves the advance of the Kingdom, but is not tantamount to it.

    To have a biblical patience: Biblical patience calls for creative waiting, doing now what we can instead of moaning about what church disciplines will not allow us to do. It means being willing to accept or absorb negativity so that the person who is the source of it will eventually go beyond it. Christ suffered for unity. At times so will we. Biblical patience involves staying with it, seeing it through, searching for the healing that comes from understanding and forgiveness. Everyone is in favor of Christian unity. Some are even willing to work for it. But few are willing to suffer for it.


    ec·u·men·i·cal (ĕk′yə-mĕn′ĭ-kəl) also ec·u·men·ic (-mĕn′ĭk)
    adj.
    1. Of worldwide scope or applicability; universal.
    2.
    a. Of or relating to the worldwide Christian church.
    b. Concerned with establishing or promoting unity among churches or religions.
    [From Late Latin oecūmenicus, from Greek oikoumenikos, from (hē) oikoumenē (gē), (the) inhabited (world), feminine present passive participle of oikein, to inhabit, from oikos, house; see weik-1 in the Appendix of Indo-European roots.]
    ec′u·men′i·cal n.
    ec′u·men′i·cal·ism n.
    ec′u·men′i·cal·ly adv.
    American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition. Copyright © 2016 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. All rights reserved.
    ecumenical (ˌiːkjʊˈmɛnɪkəl; ˌɛk-) or oecumenical; ecumenic or oecumenic
    adj
    1. (Ecclesiastical Terms) of or relating to the Christian Church throughout the world, esp with regard to its unity
    2. (Ecclesiastical Terms)
    a. tending to promote unity among Churches
    b. of or relating to the international movement initiated among non-Catholic Churches in 1910 aimed at Christian unity: embodied, since 1937, in the World Council of Churches
    3. rare universal; general; worldwide
    [C16: via Late Latin from Greek oikoumenikos, from oikein to inhabit, from oikos house]
    ˌecuˈmenically, ˌoecuˈmenically adv


    Is it so bad to be ecumenical?
    Walk till you Run
    And don't look back
    For HERE...I AM

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    Senior Member FranC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who is celebrating ash Wednesday and lent?

    Quote Originally Posted by FranC View Post
    Repent and believe in the gospel.
    Sackcloth and ashes.
    From dust you come and to dust you shall return.
    40 days to change.
    Prepare your heart for the resurrection.
    From a heart of stone to a heart of flesh.
    Present your bodies a living sacrifice. (Giving up stuff for Lent)
    To rejoice over the resurrection, you must feel pain over Christ's death on the cross.
    I had posted this on page 1.
    I thought it would be nice to take a look at each line and discover why Lent is celebrated by the RCC and some Protestant churches.

    1. Repent and believe in the gospel.

    Lent begins on Wednesday, approx. 40 days before Easter. It's approx. because it really is more than 40 days.
    It begins on Ash Wednesday (for theRCC) and ends on Holy Thursday. There are 5 Sundays in Lent, plus Palm Sunday and up to Holy Thursday.

    Ash Wednesday is very significant. Lent is a time to repent and turn toward God and deepen our relationship with Him.
    In the O.T., ashes were used to demonstrate repentence.

    Job 42:5-6
    Job repents in dust and ashes.

    Daniel 9:3
    To come closer to God, Daniel offered God prayer, supplications, fasting, sackcloth and ashes.

    And in the N.T., Jesus' words:

    Mathew 11:21
    He is reproaching the cities which did not repent although He performed many miracles there:
    Jesus says that if the miracles had occurre in Tyre and Sidon they would have repented in sackcloth and ashes.


    So Ash Wednesday is symbolic to show that we are to repent of our sins. To remind us that God is gracious with all those who repent. It is a sign of a humble heart and a reminder to us that this earthly life is temporary.

    When the priest makes the sign of the cross on the forehead of the believer (in the RCC) he chooses between one of two verses:

    1. Genesis 3.19
    you are dust and to dust you shall return.

    2. Mark 1:15
    §Repent and believe in the gospel.

    The ashes are made with the palms or olive branches of the preceeding Palm Sunday, are blessed with holy water, and are perfumed with incense.


    2. 40 days to change.

    40 days are biblically indicative of a big change.

    It rained 40 days and 40 nights and then a new world began and humanity was given a second chance.
    The Hebrews spent 40 years in the Sinai Desert after being freed from slavery in Egypt by Moses.
    Moses fasted for 40 days before going to Mr. Sinai to receive the 10 Commandments.
    Jesus spent 40 days in the desert before beginning his ministry.


    3. Prepare your heart for the resurrection

    At the time of Easter the 40 days should be used to prepare the heart for an important event...
    The passion and resurrection of our Lord Jesus.
    It could be the first time we come to Him. Or it could be a drawing closer. We could Always contemplate our relationship with Him and make it better.


    4. From a heart of stone to a heart of flesh

    Ezekiel 36:26
    "I will give you a new heart and put a new Spirit in you. I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh, and give you a heart of flesh."
    God is telling the scattered Jews that He is going to wash them clean. He'll put a new heart in them. One made of flesh, one that wants the will of God and not the will of one's self.

    He'll put a new spirit in us and make it possible to live according to God's commands.
    "You will be my people, and I will be your God."


    5. Present your bodies a living sacrifice.


    Romans 12:1 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    Dedicated Service
    12 Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, [a]acceptable to God, which is your [b]spiritual service of worship.

    This means to take your normal life, the life you live every day, and present it to God as a "living" sacrifice.
    If we fix our attention on God, we will be transformed as Jesus wanted when He gave the Sermon on the Mount in Mathew 5.
    God wants the best for us, if we will follow Him.

    So during Lent it might be a good idea to fast on Fridays, or eliminate meat, or candy for children, or perhaps children could be taught to do something special, like visit he elderly in a nursing home, or visit sick relatives.


    6. To receive the joy of the Resurrection, we must experience the pain of Christ's passion.


    To be truly happy with our salvation and with life, we must somehow feel the pain that Jesus experienced on the cross.
    Not only physical pain, but also emotional and spiritual pain. His own, the Jews, had put Him to Death and understood Him not. On the cross He took upon Himself the sins of the world. He who knew no sin, BECAME sin for us.

    Lent could be an opportunity to contemplate the above in a special way.
    Walk till you Run
    And don't look back
    For HERE...I AM

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    Default Re: Who is celebrating ash Wednesday and lent?

    Quote Originally Posted by FranC View Post
    How do you come to that conclusion?

    Here's what makes a Catholic:
    Belief in confession
    Belief in Transubstantiation
    Belief in Purgatory
    Belief in praying for the dead
    Belief in baptizing infants
    Belief in Justification at baptism
    Belief in the perpetual virginity of Mary
    Belief in Mary as the Queen and Mother of the church

    I do believe in some sort of Tradition
    I do believe that a church should set forth the meaning of scripture or we have the confusion I see on these threads.
    We are NOT theologians. We are NOT Greek scholars, as some here believe they are.
    What makes a Roman Catholic:
    Join the church.


    Everything else is arbitrary. (And that last one simply isn't true.)
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

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    Senior Member FranC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who is celebrating ash Wednesday and lent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Depleted View Post
    What makes a Roman Catholic:
    Join the church.


    Everything else is arbitrary. (And that last one simply isn't true.)
    Everything else is arbitrary?

    If you don't believe ALL Catholic dogma, you can't even call yourself a Catholic.

    And what last one? About Mary??
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    Default Re: Who is celebrating ash Wednesday and lent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    I actually don't know anything about it except that kids would come to school with dirt on their foreheads, and I think they didn't eat certain things for a week, or so. I have no idea why they did this, nor what it meant to them..... and when I asked about it, they didn't really know either.
    I'll tell you what's up with Ash Wednesday and Lent from my knowledge growing up in the RCC. Please do not mistake this for their doctrines. (Ha! Glad you joined my question about doctrines. This isn't that. This is "the non-essential stuff.) They actually don't teach doctrine. But this is what I remember about Ash Wednesday and Lent, just so you know what you're seeing, at least.

    It starts with Palm Sunday, oddly enough. On Palm Sunday, at mass, everyone is given a palm leaf. I'm a Yankee, so we don't do palms much this far north, and I really can't tell you what kind of palm leaf it is, other than it's fairly long and thin. It's long and thin enough, that many of us put the two ends together, and then push it behind the top part of of crucifix in the house. (Growing up, every Catholic family had a crucifix with a suffering Jesus on it. I don't know if this is still true today.)

    And that palm leaf was supposed to stay there until the next Palm Sunday, however, apparently this cannot be completely true, because I started with Palm Sunday on purpose. It goes right to what that dirt is they put on the forehead. That's not dirt. It's ash. And, it's ash from those Palm branches. (I have never figured out how this works, if we're all keeping our palms behind the crucifixes, but priests in four different states have told me the same thing, so it must be true somehow.)

    And that ash means something. You know the old sackcloth and ashes thing in the OT, when people were in mourning? Yeah, well the ashes represents the beginning of mourning. 40 days of mourning before the day Christ died. It really is supposed to remind us to reflect on Christ's sufferings, what he did for us, what we did to him, and all the other things many Christians like to feel to get into a good state of sadness. We were supposed to carry that sadness around with us for the whole 40 days. (Tough as a kid, particularly, but definitely some good old fashioned piety in the act. I really did try to be like that as much as I could remember it. Success rate was about as much as you would expect of kids -- dependent on age and what else was going on.)

    Now, a Catholic fast is different from what I think of the word "fast" now. When I became a believer and found out fasting wasn't giving up one thing I liked, it was not eating for 24 hours or longer, this surprised me. Because a Catholic fast (again from my experience, not to be confused with doctrine), was give up your favorite thing for the 40 days called Lent. As a kid, my go-to give-up was candy, of course. (I still love candy, so not much changed but the amount, and now I'm diabetic, so sugar-free came along.) But would we really give up our favorite thing? I did when I was trying to identify with Jesus' suffering. Became a teenager later, so went for the usual things. (Like give up listening to Elvis Presley, which was easy, since I've never liked Elvis. lol) But that is the whole 40 day experience.

    In addition to that, there was "don't eat meat on Fridays." As a kid, that was all year round, but as a teenager it became okay to eat meat on Fridays, except in Lent, and then it was back to fish.

    (Just in case you want to now what is it with fish on Fridays in the RCC. Long ago, fisherman were struggling to survive because no one liked fish. So, a pope made that "don't eat meat on Fridays" infallible decree to support the fishermen. A big problem in my family. Mom's doctor told her she was so allergic to fish, there should be no fish in the house. Dad is/was OCD. Irish Catholic, and fished, so the best he'd settle for was he'd cook the fish, instead of her, on Fridays. It didn't kill her, thankfully. She didn't eat it, or it would have, but at least the smell wasn't enough to kill her.)

    That about covers dirty foreheads, and Lent, Catholic style. At least now you know what you're seeing and hearing talked about.
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

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    Default Re: Who is celebrating ash Wednesday and lent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Depleted View Post
    I'll tell you what's up with Ash Wednesday and Lent from my knowledge growing up in the RCC. Please do not mistake this for their doctrines. (Ha! Glad you joined my question about doctrines. This isn't that. This is "the non-essential stuff.) They actually don't teach doctrine. But this is what I remember about Ash Wednesday and Lent, just so you know what you're seeing, at least.

    It starts with Palm Sunday, oddly enough. On Palm Sunday, at mass, everyone is given a palm leaf. I'm a Yankee, so we don't do palms much this far north, and I really can't tell you what kind of palm leaf it is, other than it's fairly long and thin. It's long and thin enough, that many of us put the two ends together, and then push it behind the top part of of crucifix in the house. (Growing up, every Catholic family had a crucifix with a suffering Jesus on it. I don't know if this is still true today.)

    And that palm leaf was supposed to stay there until the next Palm Sunday, however, apparently this cannot be completely true, because I started with Palm Sunday on purpose. It goes right to what that dirt is they put on the forehead. That's not dirt. It's ash. And, it's ash from those Palm branches. (I have never figured out how this works, if we're all keeping our palms behind the crucifixes, but priests in four different states have told me the same thing, so it must be true somehow.)

    And that ash means something. You know the old sackcloth and ashes thing in the OT, when people were in mourning? Yeah, well the ashes represents the beginning of mourning. 40 days of mourning before the day Christ died. It really is supposed to remind us to reflect on Christ's sufferings, what he did for us, what we did to him, and all the other things many Christians like to feel to get into a good state of sadness. We were supposed to carry that sadness around with us for the whole 40 days. (Tough as a kid, particularly, but definitely some good old fashioned piety in the act. I really did try to be like that as much as I could remember it. Success rate was about as much as you would expect of kids -- dependent on age and what else was going on.)

    Now, a Catholic fast is different from what I think of the word "fast" now. When I became a believer and found out fasting wasn't giving up one thing I liked, it was not eating for 24 hours or longer, this surprised me. Because a Catholic fast (again from my experience, not to be confused with doctrine), was give up your favorite thing for the 40 days called Lent. As a kid, my go-to give-up was candy, of course. (I still love candy, so not much changed but the amount, and now I'm diabetic, so sugar-free came along.) But would we really give up our favorite thing? I did when I was trying to identify with Jesus' suffering. Became a teenager later, so went for the usual things. (Like give up listening to Elvis Presley, which was easy, since I've never liked Elvis. lol) But that is the whole 40 day experience.

    In addition to that, there was "don't eat meat on Fridays." As a kid, that was all year round, but as a teenager it became okay to eat meat on Fridays, except in Lent, and then it was back to fish.

    (Just in case you want to now what is it with fish on Fridays in the RCC. Long ago, fisherman were struggling to survive because no one liked fish. So, a pope made that "don't eat meat on Fridays" infallible decree to support the fishermen. A big problem in my family. Mom's doctor told her she was so allergic to fish, there should be no fish in the house. Dad is/was OCD. Irish Catholic, and fished, so the best he'd settle for was he'd cook the fish, instead of her, on Fridays. It didn't kill her, thankfully. She didn't eat it, or it would have, but at least the smell wasn't enough to kill her.)

    That about covers dirty foreheads, and Lent, Catholic style. At least now you know what you're seeing and hearing talked about.
    It's no wonder Catholic churches are in trouble.
    They never taught anything and still don't.

    Everything you've said above is not correct.
    I smiled when you said that Ash Wednesday started on Palm Sunday. Maybe you said lent?
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    Default Re: Who is celebrating ash Wednesday and lent?

    Quote Originally Posted by FranC View Post
    Faith IS action. It's not a feeling.
    We have before us the New Christianity and the Old Christianity.
    I hesitate to get into this, but I tire of hearing how we are in the Lord and HE does everything for us.
    Jesus insisted on a transformation. He insisted on holiness.
    Holiness is not a scary word ---
    It just means being set aside for God's work.
    And yet "work" has become a word non grata.

    It's signigicant that there were no comments on what I listed except for yours.
    Every single line is a lesson on Easter and the resurrection.

    I thank you for the comment.
    I am eastern orthodox christian and we also have the Great Lent.

    The Great Lent is like a journey to the Easter. Easter is the most important holyday of the christian world because without the resurrection of Jesus Christ there is no new creation, no new life, no victory over death, no kingdom of God.

    The great lent is so much more than what people perceive at a shallow view (such as don't eat meat). The great lent is about repentance. Jesus Christ started his mission by saying "Repent because the kingdom of God has come near". Repentance means to leave behind your old ways and embrace the new. Repentance means metanoia (transformation of the mind). Repentance is needed for the new way of life to which we are called, for the life in the kingdom of god.

    So far, the only way of living that we know is the one that is common to all people: the one that ends up in the grave.

    The great lent is like a sort of preparation for a new life: a life that starts with the resurrection of Christ (and also our resurrection). The great lent tries to prepare us for something that "no eye has seen, no ear has heard and no mind has concieved" - the kingdom of God.

    By giving up your way of living in general (what we do during the great lent) you fight against the absurdity of this life, you fight for a meaning of life (the meaning that only Christ, who defeated death, can give).

    The great lent is not only about giving up food, but about prayer, liturgy and reading of the bible. If people would only give up food, then they would be on a diet and not on repentance (transformation of the mind).
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  16. #36
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    Default Re: Who is celebrating ash Wednesday and lent?

    Quote Originally Posted by GuessWho View Post
    I am eastern orthodox christian and we also have the Great Lent.

    The Great Lent is like a journey to the Easter. Easter is the most important holyday of the christian world because without the resurrection of Jesus Christ there is no new creation, no new life, no victory over death, no kingdom of God.

    The great lent is so much more than what people perceive at a shallow view (such as don't eat meat). The great lent is about repentance. Jesus Christ started his mission by saying "Repent because the kingdom of God has come near". Repentance means to leave behind your old ways and embrace the new. Repentance means metanoia (transformation of the mind). Repentance is needed for the new way of life to which we are called, for the life in the kingdom of god.

    So far, the only way of living that we know is the one that is common to all people: the one that ends up in the grave.

    The great lent is like a sort of preparation for a new life: a life that starts with the resurrection of Christ (and also our resurrection). The great lent tries to prepare us for something that "no eye has seen, no ear has heard and no mind has concieved" - the kingdom of God.

    By giving up your way of living in general (what we do during the great lent) you fight against the absurdity of this life, you fight for a meaning of life (the meaning that only Christ, who defeated death, can give).

    The great lent is not only about giving up food, but about prayer, liturgy and reading of the bible. If people would only give up food, then they would be on a diet and not on repentance (transformation of the mind).
    Wonderfully said.

    I cannot speak about the Eastern church, although I do know that it is very spiritual, and if I remember, chanting and liturgy are important elements.

    Sometimes I hear that the decorations in a church are not important, how one could say this aftercare seeing the beauty of an Eastern church...I do not know. It helps to remember the greatness of God.

    So, I don't know about your church, but the RCC has just started teaching it's doctrines to the laity.
    Too late, perhaps.

    In doctrine I'm protestant but I love all my Christian Brothers.
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    Default Re: Who is celebrating ash Wednesday and lent?

    Quote Originally Posted by FranC View Post
    Everything else is arbitrary?

    If you don't believe ALL Catholic dogma, you can't even call yourself a Catholic.

    And what last one? About Mary??
    Poppycock! The first time I even thought to question transubstantiation was when my CCD teacher -- our parish priest -- told us he didn't believe it. (I was a senior in high school.)

    Praying for or to the dead? Still a good way to start an argument between Catholics.

    Never heard of justification by anything as a Catholic, and I was one for 20 years.

    The RCC came very close to naming Mary as a goddess a couple of decades ago. Changing their actual doctrine on that one, but after much arguing (and I'm talking cardinals, not mere bishops or priests), they decided to denounce the Mary garbage as a doctrinal stance. Once again, they don't teach doctrine, therefore the only way to learn that is to read their books on their doctrines over the centuries. (Have fun. BORING stuff. Only thing that keeps changing is the doctrine. And to be honest, I haven't read that stuff since those days, so I no longer remember the names of the books.)

    The rest of the stuff? Already been here with you. Dad is very much a Catholic. He's been born and raised Irish Catholic, wasn't allowed to receive communion when Mom was trying to divorce him, could receive it again when she died before the divorce papers were signed, had the same problem when his second marriage went south, but that was resolved with $3000 for the annulment, went to church every Sunday, until he couldn't (dementia), and yet he believes the entire OT was just written for the naive ancient people of those days, and when he dies heaven is God letting him travel the universe one planet at a time. (AKA, being Catholic saves him and saves him from hell, not saves him to God. Notice, he really doesn't buy the whole purgatory thing.)

    My sister and a couple of brothers are somewhere between atheists, agnostics, and New Age, and yet they are every bit accepted as Catholics according to the Catholic Church. (They can go one by one down that list you wrote about what Catholics believe, and have a good hearty laugh over all of it, right down to even "Did Mary even ever exist?" Matter of fact, I'm sure if they did read the list, their ribs would hurt from laughing so hard for so long.)

    What YOU believe a Catholic must believe is not the requirements of the RCC. Their requirements, when rubber meets road, is how much money you give to the church and that you raise your kids to be "good Catholics." THAT is the one thing the rest of my family does do, and it has kept the church happy to call them Catholics for decades.
    Lynn

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    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

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    Default Re: Who is celebrating ash Wednesday and lent?

    Quote Originally Posted by FranC View Post
    It's no wonder Catholic churches are in trouble.
    They never taught anything and still don't.

    Everything you've said above is not correct.
    I smiled when you said that Ash Wednesday started on Palm Sunday. Maybe you said lent?
    Reread, I did explain why I started with Palm Sunday. Not that Ash Wednesday or Lent starts on Palm Sunday.
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

  19. #39
    Senior Member FranC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who is celebrating ash Wednesday and lent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Depleted View Post
    Poppycock! The first time I even thought to question transubstantiation was when my CCD teacher -- our parish priest -- told us he didn't believe it. (I was a senior in high school.)

    Praying for or to the dead? Still a good way to start an argument between Catholics.

    Never heard of justification by anything as a Catholic, and I was one for 20 years.

    The RCC came very close to naming Mary as a goddess a couple of decades ago. Changing their actual doctrine on that one, but after much arguing (and I'm talking cardinals, not mere bishops or priests), they decided to denounce the Mary garbage as a doctrinal stance. Once again, they don't teach doctrine, therefore the only way to learn that is to read their books on their doctrines over the centuries. (Have fun. BORING stuff. Only thing that keeps changing is the doctrine. And to be honest, I haven't read that stuff since those days, so I no longer remember the names of the books.)

    The rest of the stuff? Already been here with you. Dad is very much a Catholic. He's been born and raised Irish Catholic, wasn't allowed to receive communion when Mom was trying to divorce him, could receive it again when she died before the divorce papers were signed, had the same problem when his second marriage went south, but that was resolved with $3000 for the annulment, went to church every Sunday, until he couldn't (dementia), and yet he believes the entire OT was just written for the naive ancient people of those days, and when he dies heaven is God letting him travel the universe one planet at a time. (AKA, being Catholic saves him and saves him from hell, not saves him to God. Notice, he really doesn't buy the whole purgatory thing.)

    My sister and a couple of brothers are somewhere between atheists, agnostics, and New Age, and yet they are every bit accepted as Catholics according to the Catholic Church. (They can go one by one down that list you wrote about what Catholics believe, and have a good hearty laugh over all of it, right down to even "Did Mary even ever exist?" Matter of fact, I'm sure if they did read the list, their ribs would hurt from laughing so hard for so long.)

    What YOU believe a Catholic must believe is not the requirements of the RCC. Their requirements, when rubber meets road, is how much money you give to the church and that you raise your kids to be "good Catholics." THAT is the one thing the rest of my family does do, and it has kept the church happy to call them Catholics for decades.
    All I can say is this:

    In the RCC it's the magesterium that decides doctrine and what makes a Catholic.

    Just as in any other church , personal experience may be different.

    However, if one wants to know the teachings of the RCC, we cannot use our personal experience as the guide. I do remember you and am sorry you've had such unpleasant experiences.
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    Default Re: Who is celebrating ash Wednesday and lent?

    Quote Originally Posted by FranC View Post
    All I can say is this:

    In the RCC it's the magesterium that decides doctrine and what makes a Catholic.

    Just as in any other church , personal experience may be different.

    However, if one wants to know the teachings of the RCC, we cannot use our personal experience as the guide. I do remember you and am sorry you've had such unpleasant experiences.
    Except, if "we" are you?
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

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