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Thread: pastors called doctors/people called rabbis do you believe either to be wrong?

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    Default pastors called doctors/people called rabbis do you believe either to be wrong?

    Just was wondering people's beliefs upon calling pastors doctors or like wise calling anyone rabbi,which the bible tells means "master",do you believe it to be wrong on either account,and why or why not,me personally I remember Jesus told his disciples to call noone rabbi nor master nor to let anyone call them rabbi nor master for they had only one master,God, or likewise Jesus,so I believe this to be wrong for this biblical reason,and pastors being called doctors doesn't sit right with me because God heals people when pastors are asking for God to heal people,so it doesn't seem right for them to be called doctors to me because it seems like a prideful title insinuating that they heal people instead of God,well that's my take on both please give your honest opinions/beliefs on this or better yet validate what you believe with scriptures from the bible,I look forward to what you have to say!

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    Default Re: pastors called doctors/people called rabbis do you believe either to be wrong?

    You seem to have a lot of anxiety about titles.


    I suggest you see your pastor... or your doctor.

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    Default Re: pastors called doctors/people called rabbis do you believe either to be wrong?

    even wiseguy type answers are allowed,so long as it is how you honestly believe(maxwel huh...another person similar to me, I too can be blunt and sarcastic lol)
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    Default Re: pastors called doctors/people called rabbis do you believe either to be wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by joefizz View Post
    Just was wondering people's beliefs upon calling pastors doctors or like wise calling anyone rabbi,which the bible tells means "master",do you believe it to be wrong on either account,and why or why not,me personally I remember Jesus told his disciples to call noone rabbi nor master nor to let anyone call them rabbi nor master for they had only one master,God, or likewise Jesus,so I believe this to be wrong for this biblical reason,and pastors being called doctors doesn't sit right with me because God heals people when pastors are asking for God to heal people,so it doesn't seem right for them to be called doctors to me because it seems like a prideful title insinuating that they heal people instead of God,well that's my take on both please give your honest opinions/beliefs on this or better yet validate what you believe with scriptures from the bible,I look forward to what you have to say!
    Seriously....

    The only reason people would call a pastor doctor is that he has the appropriate academic qualifications, either a PhD or a DD.
    PhD - Doctor of Philosophy.
    DD - Doctor of Divinity.

    Individual who hold these qualifications actually have every right to addressed as Doctor.
    This has completely and utterly nothing to with any healing skills.

    (In fact.... the term doctor as applied to medical doctors is not technically correct - unless they also have a PhD which a small percentage do - and as a medical doctor myself I know what I am talking about.)

    Really, ignorance is not a virtue...
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    Default Re: pastors called doctors/people called rabbis do you believe either to be wrong?

    Seems some of your perceptions are a little wonky. Doctor is a title of an individual that wen through a certain form of education. Upon completing that education they earn the title. And doctors DO heal. With the education they spent years and years earning they utilize those skills to help to heal people. And in some cases doctor is not a reference to an individual that heals. Such as a doctorate of divinity, which i believe (perhaps wrongly) allows the title of doctor, therefore holding no meaning to physical healing whatsoever. This is likely the most common use of doctor among pastors.

    To the other half, read the whole chapter, use some context. It's talking about Pharisees and prideful religious people that use titles and fancy religious garb to bolster their image. To set themselves above others. In context you can see the scripture in question is not a flat statement to all Christians, but rather is part of the commentary against religious buffoonery.
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    Default Re: pastors called doctors/people called rabbis do you believe either to be wrong?

    very well I shall keep that in mind,gracenpeace,just seemed that nearly every pastor,mainly on tv,were called doctor out of the blue,thank you for shedding some light on this.

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    Default Re: pastors called doctors/people called rabbis do you believe either to be wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by joefizz View Post
    very well I shall keep that in mind,gracenpeace,just seemed that nearly every pastor,mainly on tv,were called doctor out of the blue,thank you for shedding some light on this.
    It is not unknown for people to claim qualifications that they are not entitled to however this is usually fairly easy to check if the individuals are claiming qualifications from bona fide universities and seminaries in countries that actually respect academic traditions.

    In the cases that you are referring to I would suggest that is unlikely - someone on TV claiming a qualification he/she is not entitled to in the USA would quickly be found out.
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    Default Re: pastors called doctors/people called rabbis do you believe either to be wrong?

    ok,ugly I think I get what your saying about doctors,that it's more of a title for those who complete a certain education depending on what role they undertake decides what "doctor" they are from a modern stand point,(doctor who talks on philosophy,doctor who works in hospital or has prior medical skills etc.) and as for the calling people rabbis or not,still don't see how Jesus nor God would appreciate anyone being called Rabbi/master considering all that both have done for us,no offense,I just believe that God/Jesus are a better choice for the title Rabbi/Master than anyone whom walks this earth today,including myself and any and all celebrities or famous people because God/Jesus can help us and lead us better than anyone whom can try to lay claim to being called Rabbi/ Master,but that's just me!

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    Default Re: pastors called doctors/people called rabbis do you believe either to be wrong?

    Most of us call our preacher, "Chris." 'Cause that's his name.
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    Default Re: pastors called doctors/people called rabbis do you believe either to be wrong?

    Willie now that was beautiful,so many people out there probably don't even call there pastors by their first name! nothing like showing a person such as a pastor that they are still someone that you care for whether inside or outside church and that you realize that they are no different than you in that, they nor you ever change from being yourselves nor do you have any more power than them and no matter our roles for God that we all hold equal value in God's eyes!

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    Default Re: pastors called doctors/people called rabbis do you believe either to be wrong?

    The only reason people would call a pastor doctor is that he has the appropriate academic qualifications
    And, most of the time that's exactly WHY they should be ignored cause they've been schooled in the wisdom of man and not the wisdom of God.

    Most of these folks deny God's Word so... I ain't payin attention to any of them.

    I think it's funny how people fall all over themselves to "honor" those that have a degree from somewhere and think they are so smart...

    Yeah, in the end we be some gonna find out that God is the only smart One and smart people go by what God says in His Word

    Proverbs 9:10
    The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom

    1 Corinthians 1:25
    the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength


    nearly every pastor,mainly on tv,were called doctor out of the blue,thank you for shedding some light on this.
    Yeah, they went on the internet and paid for a "doctorate degree" or they gave some of their donor's money to some bible school who gave them a "doctorate degree" or traded other kinda favors (you know, private ones) for a "doctorate degree"

    It's just as meaningless as the guy that actually went to school and got trained in the wisdom of mankind.
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    Default Re: pastors called doctors/people called rabbis do you believe either to be wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by joefizz View Post
    Willie now that was beautiful,so many people out there probably don't even call there pastors by their first name! nothing like showing a person such as a pastor that they are still someone that you care for whether inside or outside church and that you realize that they are no different than you in that, they nor you ever change from being yourselves nor do you have any more power than them and no matter our roles for God that we all hold equal value in God's eyes!
    I think you read more into that than I meant. LOL We call him Chris simply because we are all friends. He calls me Bill, not Mr. Everett, even though I am 30 years his senior.
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    Default Re: pastors called doctors/people called rabbis do you believe either to be wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockrz View Post
    And, most of the time that's exactly WHY they should be ignored cause they've been schooled in the wisdom of man and not the wisdom of God.

    Most of these folks deny God's Word so... I ain't payin attention to any of them.

    I think it's funny how people fall all over themselves to "honor" those that have a degree from somewhere and think they are so smart...

    Yeah, in the end we be some gonna find out that God is the only smart One and smart people go by what God says in His Word

    Proverbs 9:10
    The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom

    1 Corinthians 1:25
    the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength




    Yeah, they went on the internet and paid for a "doctorate degree" or they gave some of their donor's money to some bible school who gave them a "doctorate degree" or traded other kinda favors (you know, private ones) for a "doctorate degree"

    It's just as meaningless as the guy that actually went to school and got trained in the wisdom of mankind.
    Come on, you can do better than this!

    You are crashing around on these forums like a proverbial Bull-In-A-China-Shop.
    Passion and zealotry can be admirable virtues - in their context...
    However, you are really just tilting at windmills most of time.

    I happen to know a lot of people with PhD's - comes with the territory.
    Almost entirely they are actually very humble people.
    Why?
    Because when you really research an area with a view to adding to the body of knowledge which is a minimum requirement for a PhD - one needs to do original research - you begin to realise just how little you, and others, really know about the subject, and usually how false your initial preconceptions were, and this is an intensely humbling experience.

    It is true that these individuals can be idolised (almost universally for the wrong reasons) but that is neither the fault of the educated individual concerned nor do they desire it.

    I will say that I am aware of churches that are nothing short of personality cults but that this phenomenon is usually inversely related to the qualifications of the church leaders.

    I have seen enough of your posts to suggest that you can really contribute in a constructive way to a lot of the debates on this forum but most of your posts are just crude, ill-considered, badly thought-out, motor-mouth shots from the hip.

    I will say again - you can do better!

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    Default Re: pastors called doctors/people called rabbis do you believe either to be wrong?

    I was just going to add to this, too, graceNpeace!

    I have been privileged to sit under the preaching of a few people who had Ph.D's in preaching. They were both incredibly humble people. One was my senior pastor for 3 years, and he was the best preacher I have ever heard. But I was well into my second year in that congregation, as a member, until I found out about his educational background, and it was not the pastor that leaked his secret. He had people call him "Tom." Yep, that was his name.

    In seminary, there was a requirement that we address our prof's as "Dr. so and so." Some of them weren't bad with that, but a few hated it. So they became Dr. P or Dr. T. Because the seminary accreditation required it.

    As for those people who claim to have Ph.D's but do not seem to have them, I agree they are diploma mill. Apparently, there are also these honorary degrees that people get to make it look like they are something. Lots of people have honorary degrees, there is no shame in that. Universities tend to give them out every year. But some of these are coming from questionable Bible colleges, and the person is wearing it like a badge of authority. I think the Copelands both have this kind of fake degrees, to match their fake Word Faith nonsense.

    I also had a friend who was a teacher, and she returned to a reputable university to get a Master's degree. Then, she gave the Copeland organization a bunch of money, and suddenly she was Dr. Nydia. Sadly, it didn't stop her from getting breast cancer, and it did not heal her when she was prayed over and she refused medical treatment. Neither the degree, nor her Word Faith confessions.
    "And He has said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness.” Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me." 2 Cor. 12:9 NASB

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    Default Re: pastors called doctors/people called rabbis do you believe either to be wrong?

    You are crashing around on these forums like a proverbial Bull-In-A-China-Shop.
    Passion and zealotry can be admirable virtues - in their context...
    However, you are really just tilting at windmills most of time.
    Yeah, yeah... opinions are like certain parts of the human anatomy, everybody's got one!



    I happen to know a lot of people with PhD's
    You know lots of Pizza Hut Dudes?

    I have a PHD too... Past Having Doubt

    I also have a BA ... Born Again

    Plus, I have a DD... Disturbing devils




    one needs to do original research
    Yes and herin lies the problem... they not studying what God says.

    They just studying the knowledge and theories of man and man is blind having fallen in to sin and darkness.

    So, in the end their research will not be found in God's Kingdom unless it came from God's Word and precious little of it does.

    Even the whole intelligent design thing that has caused some scientists to believe in God... is now being turned in to the belief that aliens created man and aliens are coming back to save man.

    That ain't nutin but pure bull malarkey!



    I will say that I am aware of churches that are nothing short of personality cults but that this phenomenon is usually inversely related to the qualifications of the church leaders.
    Yes, and many of those cats have been to cemetery... er, I mean seminary.

    I've belonged to a couple of those places where they think the pastor or pastors can do NO wrong and from the pulpit they speak as though those that do not support the pastor's "vision" may be shown the door.

    So, I showed my own self to the door... and gave my own self the left foot of fellowship!




    I have seen enough of your posts to suggest that you can really contribute in a constructive way to a lot of the debates on this forum but most of your posts are just crude, ill-considered, badly thought-out, motor-mouth shots from the hip.
    Thanks for the vote of confidence... I think... but, some of this is done for entertainment value.

    There's always got to be a smart aleck right?

    And, some times there is truth in smart aleck remarks... I've had some of those thrown at me a few times that the Lord used to point out stuff I need to look at in my own life so God can and does use the occassional smark aleck remark for His purposes.
    I see lots of smart alecks on here so this is not too uncommon and can be a fun thing as well.
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    Default Re: pastors called doctors/people called rabbis do you believe either to be wrong?

    Fair enough - you want to be the clown...
    We'll treat you like the clown...
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    Default Re: pastors called doctors/people called rabbis do you believe either to be wrong?

    Fair enough - you want to be the clown...
    We'll treat you like the clown...
    What's this "we" business??? Are those voices back?
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    Default Re: pastors called doctors/people called rabbis do you believe either to be wrong?

    Yep Rockrz if God's word isn't studied alongside the holy spirit then you don't learn anything worthwhile,or do people so soon forget who put the knowledge in our heads to begin with to be so called "smart" you know He who plenty of people overlook yet blame for all their problems,oh yeah,God,hmmmm funny I don't see where he has a phd yet he created us all! he doesn't have some club to boast of his superiority yet he has done many things we can't! sure I could say I have an SAB,Saved And Baptized,but what use is boasting about such things? what use is knowledge if you overlook it with pride? I know what you mean Rockrz, too long have people been putting themselves on pedestals,I've read the entire bible once yet it doesn't make me superior to anyone,real knowledge is of God not of man,(yeah heard the whole alien theory and evolution theory,funny stuff but not real knowledge,that's the trouble with too much philosophy,eventually you start to believe the stuff you overthink about!) as it's written if the blind leadeth the blind then surely they shall fall into the pit together,pride is very blinding as well as that theorizing before learning "Truth" is misleading,sure you can speculate all day but if it leads nowhere or worse yet overlaps the truth then what have you to be so proud of? of course the bible answers this phenomenon of people giving themselves too much credit as well speculation,in Ecclesiastes chpapter 3 it says,"The Lord set the world in their heart so that no one may know how the Lord made all things from beginning to end" now I'm not a college genius or some great philosopher yet I understand that this means that only God knows about all creation including our knowledge and how it should be used,not merely for self gain but ultimately for God, that is,if you want to learn "TRUE WISDOM"!

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    Default Re: pastors called doctors/people called rabbis do you believe either to be wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by joefizz View Post
    Yep Rockrz if God's word isn't studied alongside the holy spirit then you don't learn anything worthwhile,or do people so soon forget who put the knowledge in our heads to begin with to be so called "smart" you know He who plenty of people overlook yet blame for all their problems,oh yeah,God,hmmmm funny I don't see where he has a phd yet he created us all! he doesn't have some club to boast of his superiority yet he has done many things we can't! sure I could say I have an SAB,Saved And Baptized,but what use is boasting about such things? what use is knowledge if you overlook it with pride? I know what you mean Rockrz, too long have people been putting themselves on pedestals,I've read the entire bible once yet it doesn't make me superior to anyone,real knowledge is of God not of man,(yeah heard the whole alien theory and evolution theory,funny stuff but not real knowledge,that's the trouble with too much philosophy,eventually you start to believe the stuff you overthink about!) as it's written if the blind leadeth the blind then surely they shall fall into the pit together,pride is very blinding as well as that theorizing before learning "Truth" is misleading,sure you can speculate all day but if it leads nowhere or worse yet overlaps the truth then what have you to be so proud of? of course the bible answers this phenomenon of people giving themselves too much credit as well speculation,in Ecclesiastes chpapter 3 it says,"The Lord set the world in their heart so that no one may know how the Lord made all things from beginning to end" now I'm not a college genius or some great philosopher yet I understand that this means that only God knows about all creation including our knowledge and how it should be used,not merely for self gain but ultimately for God, that is,if you want to learn "TRUE WISDOM"!
    This is just so ignorant, shows a total lack of understanding of both who God is, and anthropology. In other words, we are NOT God. To say the Holy Spirit just leads and guides me, and I don't need anything else, is the starting point for all heresies.

    Anyone can follow God all the days of their life with no education. And I'm talking not being able to read and to write. Although, of course, reading the Bible is so important for us all, if we have the ability to read. God certainly leads and guides us in our lives, through the power of the Holy Spirit! No disagreement there!

    BUT, theology is a different ball of wax! If you want to start coming up with new doctrines, even a basic knowledge of the original languages can lead you astray, as I am constantly finding in the BDF. People use Strong's, do a word search, and come up with a new revelation! Can you say, never!!?

    Theology is very complex. Even the top Biblical scholars in the world do not agree on every point. BUT, they can agree to disagree. Orthodoxy has been established since the early church. Why on earth would God reach down to some Joe Blow, and give him some totally new revelation that no one has ever thought of in 2000 years, and tell him to set up a church, and preach the new gospel??

    And yet, that is what happens every day in the BDF. And all of them supposedly led by the Holy Spirit. So why are these revelations not necessarily from God? Man is not God. We hear, see, and remember imperfectly. We see things through our own filters, our personal and sociological background. If we were raised to believe one thing, we might stick to it like glue, or we might totally reject it, thinking that indigestion we got the other night was "sign" from God to walk the other way.

    It is the utmost arrogance to think that God is giving us personally a new revelation for the body of Christ. Now, everyone loves to cite Martin Luther, who started the Reformation, as breaking with tradition. But, he had a Ph.D in theology. He was fluent in both Hebrew and Greek, and translated the first Bible into German. He studied the Bible, prayed, and sought God for salvation his whole life.

    THEN, this learned man, this humble man, did have a revelation from God. The Holy Spirit revealed to him the truth of salvation in Romans 5:1. And so, the Reformation began. But he made mistakes! His writings on the Jews was horrific. Why? Because he was a product of his time. Because God's purpose was for him to reveal the true way we are saved - we are justified by faith, not by indulgences or the Catholic or any other church body. That was the world changing revelation God gave Martin Luther.

    Yes, the Holy Spirit guides and directs us. Yes, a good education is important to any preacher and vital for a theologian. But no, we don't NEED an education, but no matter whether Ph.D or grade 6 we need to be humble and submit to God, and remember he is in charge, not us!
    "And He has said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness.” Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me." 2 Cor. 12:9 NASB

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    Default Re: pastors called doctors/people called rabbis do you believe either to be wrong?

    Yep Rockrz if God's word isn't studied alongside the holy spirit then you don't learn anything worthwhile,or do people so soon forget who put the knowledge in our heads to begin with to be so called "smart" you know He who plenty of people overlook yet blame for all their problems,oh yeah,God,hmmmm funny I don't see where he has a phd yet he created us all! he doesn't have some club to boast of his superiority yet he has done many things we can't! sure I could say I have an SAB,Saved And Baptized,but what use is boasting about such things? what use is knowledge if you overlook it with pride? I know what you mean Rockrz, too long have people been putting themselves on pedestals,I've read the entire bible once yet it doesn't make me superior to anyone,real knowledge is of God not of man,(yeah heard the whole alien theory and evolution theory,funny stuff but not real knowledge,that's the trouble with too much philosophy,eventually you start to believe the stuff you overthink about!) as it's written if the blind leadeth the blind then surely they shall fall into the pit together,pride is very blinding as well as that theorizing before learning "Truth" is misleading,sure you can speculate all day but if it leads nowhere or worse yet overlaps the truth then what have you to be so proud of? of course the bible answers this phenomenon of people giving themselves too much credit as well speculation,in Ecclesiastes chpapter 3 it says,"The Lord set the world in their heart so that no one may know how the Lord made all things from beginning to end" now I'm not a college genius or some great philosopher yet I understand that this means that only God knows about all creation including our knowledge and how it should be used,not merely for self gain but ultimately for God, that is,if you want to learn "TRUE WISDOM"!
    You know, they invested PARAGRAPHS here a while back... just though knowledge of this invention might be useful to you...

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