Fairly sexual question... but it's been playing on my mind.

mrpower · May 21, 2010

I have recently met the love of my life. Thank the lord, he has confirmed it to both of us personally... hahaha for me... a little more of a hammering was necessary than for my love, as I'm a little slow on the uptake. But now i'm totally on board!

Something that has been playing on my mind is this: If, once we are married, and are totally following the will of God in our lives, should we use contraception if we do not want children right away, or just trust that God will bring a child along in his perfect timing?
Do natural laws some into play here? Is this the same as walking outside and getting pooped on by a bird, or getting rained on, or a wild animal attack? or any other number of random natural occurrences that can just happen if you're not taking precautions??
Is this different? Should we be taking precautions as Christians walking with God, or should we be trusting him so completely that we don't even use contraception?

Not really an issue for a long while yet, but id like some feedback.

My loves in Christ - D

704champion · May 21, 2010

hey power,

my wife and I decided not to use anything. I do believe that if God wants to bless me with a child, He will. if He doesn't, He won't.

but let's face it, if your wife to be is highly fertile you could be conceiving the 1st month.

alot of birth control pills out there can harm or kill a baby. yeah, I researched all this years ago. even a woman regularly on the pill could have an egg be fertilized and killed off by the pill she is taking and be completely unaware the whole time. this was my fear.

so look deeply into different types of birth control if you decide to go that way.

blake

NodMyHeadLikeYeah · May 21, 2010

If you dont want kids immediately use contraception. If you dont use contraception she could get pregnant at any time, and apparently thats not what either of you want.

Matthew · May 21, 2010

mrpower said:

You have to be sensible about this and make the choice for yourselves, if you don't want children right away then it is down to you both to take whatever steps are neccesary to ensure you get the outcome you want, that doens't mean using contraception is a must, but it is something you should at least consider as a couple.

The idea of going ahead and trusting God to bring the right thing at the right time, well it's open to debate but we have been given knowledge and understanding of how these things work and I think it's obvious we have that capability for a reason, we are meant to use the knowledge.

We are meant to multiply but the schedule is up to us, so take control and ensure you have kids at the right time otherwise they might come along when you aren't ready or aren't able to care for them, not to be too harsh but it is the most serious thing and I think it's irresponsible to just see what happens and run with it.

mrpower · May 21, 2010

NodMyHeadLikeYeah said:

Oh i didnt say we didnt want that hahaha, but we're not sure yet as it's massively early days.

NodMyHeadLikeYeah · May 21, 2010

mrpower said:

Then have at it

Maddog · May 21, 2010

I've recently been converted to the opinion that artificial contraception is wrong, so I would say don't use it. I don't think the analogy of taking precautions to prevent accidents or death is suitable since I don't believe bringing a new life into the world is ever an accident or somehow a 'bad' consequence. Sex is both unitive and procreative, but I believe the two go hand in hand. In other words sex is unitive precisely because it is procreative. When we attempt to have sex purely for pleasure while deliberately frustrating its primary procreative purpose then we are abusing the act, as well as each other by treating each other just as vehicles for pleasure and trying to shut the door to an essential element of sex. It's trying to have one's cake and eat it and leaving God out in the process.

Of course that doesn't mean you shouldn't try and make plans; I'm no expert on biology, but women do have their cycles and times when they are more fertile than others. I suggest using this 'rhythm method'. That way, you are still remaining open to the possibility of God choosing to bless you both with a child.

It took me quite a while to come to this position (I was brought up believing condoms were okay) so I'm not expecting to convert anyone to this position in one post, but I thought I'd share my conclusions with you.

Beauty81 · May 21, 2010

I would like to answer your question as a child of God you should always take it to God in prayer if you and your wife are not ready to have children then contraceptive (Protection) is fine as long as you and your wife agree on that decision.

beta7 · May 21, 2010

hi,
congrats to you and your fiance. i think its okay for you to use contraception. after all you wouldn't to have too many children and not be able to properly take care of them. now that would be a sin

Jordan9 · May 21, 2010

I agree with Maddog. The rhythm method is the only suitable method at this time, because the opportunity for life is still there. And there is also the excellent point of female oral contraceptives sometimes killing your baby in the event you do conceive despite the Pill.

You wouldn't eat a feast and then vomit it up; so why have sex if you don't accept that there is at least some chance you will procreate.

I am fully aware that this isn't a popular position, especially among Evangelical and Protestant circles. But you asked for opinions, and there's mine. If you'd like to now a little more on the "why," I would be willing to expand.

androozer · May 22, 2010

Well, let's take a look at some common Bible stories on this issue. One, I think you are discussing the theological standing of this topic. This is more than whether you want kids now or not. If I'm reading you properly and this is a discussion I've thought about some. Is it wrong to use contraceptive. I believe you are right in saying that there is an element of faith in not using them. And though we may know the science behind conception matthew we also know from scripture that God opens and closes wombs according to his will. Abraham and Sarah are a prime example. This idea of God sending children and not sending children is very prevalent throughout the Old Testament. So, you can make an argument that using contraceptives is a lack of faith. On the other side of the coin there are two elements. One, there may be a stewardship question depending on your financial standing. If a child would be economically difficult then you can make a biblical argument for using contraceptives as a way to be a good steward. Along those same lines there is the issue of your marriage relationship. It is meant to be a priority and you may need some time early on to grow that relationship. So, being a good husband and wife could mean focusing on that relationship over child raising for a while. In the end this will come down to you and your wifes personal conviction on the issue. But, there are some insights to help guide your thought process.

On another note, I'm curious about the Biblical precedent for claiming sex is for procreation only. The pleasure of sex is a gift of God. There is nothing wrong with enjoying that gift properly within the marriage relationship. That is what much of the Song of Solomon is about. Do, you have a Biblical argument for making the claim that sex for pleasure is wrong?

QuestionTime · May 22, 2010

mrpower said:

I have recently met the love of my life. Thank the lord, he has confirmed it to both of us personally... hahaha for me... a little more of a hammering was necessary than for my love, as I'm a little slow on the uptake. But now i'm totally on board!

Something that has been playing on my mind is this: If, once we are married, and are totally following the will of God in our lives, should we use contraception if we do not want children right away, or just trust that God will bring a child along in his perfect timing?
Do natural laws some into play here? Is this the same as walking outside and getting pooped on by a bird, or getting rained on, or a wild animal attack? or any other number of random natural occurrences that can just happen if you're not taking precautions??
Is this different? Should we be taking precautions as Christians walking with God, or should we be trusting him so completely that we don't even use contraception?

Not really an issue for a long while yet, but id like some feedback.

My loves in Christ - D

What's wrong with using a condom? It's not the most fun in the world, but it is being responsible. Interesting question though, as I am certain all couples would prefer to avoid using one.

I'll just add: The Godly people that I know use condoms.

Quest

Sheye_Anne · May 22, 2010

QuestionTime said:

the GODLY people you know use condoms?

they don't always protect or prevent ...bad situations from occuring....now do they???

I myself am leaning toward the train of thought that I want ..to check out medically every person ..that I might think I want to have sex with..and if he wants to have sex with me..

well..that means ..lets go get tested together..stay abstinate..get to know each other better...(nothing wrong with cuddling and even sleeping together..if your just cuddling and sleeping)...

then..lets get tested again....twice..be very honest with each other about the results...

then go from there...(I don't like condoms..and they have crap(white dust) on them that isn't good for my body..)

so....thats where I'm leaning towards...

but then again..if someone just was honest..told me they weren't really that into me..and just wanted a lay for the evening..I'd respect that..,(the honesty part).then tell then to go find someone else...

if everyone could just be honest....about what deseases they do have..and think they might have..the world would be in a better situation..

I once overheard a guy in a pub say..."hey..if you don't know what you have..in your mind you don't have it"

????? ^^^^ ...serious??..is that a guy anyone wants to sleep with...

what bothers me most is the bisexuals and gays..who lie..and try to get you to sleep with them..knowing full well..they could be carriers..

selfish selfish..what can I say...

yup..a little honesty goes a long way....

yet many don't have the fortitude to deliver it very well..

QuestionTime · May 22, 2010

androozer said:

I like the idea of having faith in God to open and close the womb according to His will. Wouldn't it be wonderful to have that kind of faith, so you can enjoy sex without a condom?

I can't imagine people who think sex is for procreation only. This would be fine if we didn't have hormones raging within us, but we do. Besides, it's just a great way to get close to someone you care about. Honestly, I get concerned too when I hear talk like this, as it seems to me to be cold religion, rather than the warm love of God.

John Wesley:
Observe well: This is religion, and this alone; this alone is true Christian religion; not this or that opinion, or system of opinions, be they ever so true, ever so scriptural. It is true, this is commonly called faith. But those who suppose it to be religion are given up to a strong delusion to believe a lie, and if they suppose it to be a sure passport to heaven are in the high road to hell. Observe well: Religion is not harmlessness; which a careful observer of mankind properly terms hellish harmlessness, as it sends thousands to the bottomless pit. It is not morality; excellent as that is, when it is built on a right foundation, -- loving faith; but when otherwise, it is of no value in the sight of God. It is not formality, -- the most exact observance of all the ordinances of God. This, too, unless it be built on the right foundation, is no more pleasing to God, than "the cutting off a dog's neck." No: Religion is no less than living in eternity, and walking in eternity; and hereby walking in the love of God and man, in lowliness, meekness, and resignation. This, and this alone, is that "life which is hid with Christ in God." He alone who experiences this "dwells in God, and God in him." This alone is setting the crown upon Christ's head, and doing his "will on earth as it is done in heaven."

Quest

lightbliss · May 22, 2010

Sheye_Anne said:

the GODLY people you know use condoms?

they don't always protect or prevent ...bad situations from occuring....now do they???

I myself am leaning toward the train of thought that I want ..to check out medically every person ..that I might think I want to have sex with..and if he wants to have sex with me..

well..that means ..lets go get tested together..stay abstinate..get to know each other better...(nothing wrong with cuddling and even sleeping together..if your just cuddling and sleeping)...

then..lets get tested again....twice..be very honest with each other about the results...

then go from there...(I don't like condoms..and they have crap(white dust) on them that isn't good for my body..)

so....thats where I'm leaning towards...

but then again..if someone just was honest..told me they weren't really that into me..and just wanted a lay for the evening..I'd respect that..,(the honesty part).then tell then to go find someone else...

if everyone could just be honest....about what deseases they do have..and think they might have..the world would be in a better situation..

I once overheard a guy in a pub say..."hey..if you don't know what you have..in your mind you don't have it"

????? ^^^^ ...serious??..is that a guy anyone wants to sleep with...

what bothers me most is the bisexuals and gays..who lie..and try to get you to sleep with them..knowing full well..they could be carriers..

selfish selfish..what can I say...

yup..a little honesty goes a long way....

yet many don't have the fortitude to deliver it very well..

He was referring to using a condom as a means of bc and not regulating STDs.

QuestionTime · May 22, 2010

Sheye_Anne said:

They are married couples.

I disagree Sheye-Anne, as this doesn't sound like faith to me. If you are sincerely following God, and your mate is sincerely following God, and you are both certain that marrying is what God wants, then you marry. I don't believe in Christian couples getting tested for diseases.

Matthew · May 22, 2010

Sheye_Anne said:

I see this written here quite a lot, the desire to have tests for STD's before going into the serious levels of a relationship and I think this speaks to society quietly going the way of mass paranoia.

To be clear, it's understandable if your partner has been a part of bad social groups in years gone by as there is a high probablity something could have been passed on and so a test is good for their long term health as well as providing peace of mind.

But this growing view that it should be a prerequisite to a marriage is not something I see any value in, to me it's a little like a pre-nup, you may have little to no reason to suspect there's any danger and yet you insist on it anyway for peace of mind, to me that speaks to a lack of trust being hidden behind the excuse of taking precautions.

A full disclousure of the past is essential but beyond that it's all about trust, I don't know how christians can talk about faith and believing in God bringing the right person etc....and then seek to scrutinise that person to ensure all is right, where is the faith in that?

If you feel that level of suspicion or concern can you honestly say you believe they are right person? surely the 'right' person should engender trust?, not anything else.

Maddog · May 22, 2010

androozer said:

I don't think anyone here has said that sex is only for procreation, rather that procreation is its primary function where primary ≠ only. Obviously, there is nothing wrong with enjoying sex, but I believe it immoral when this pleasure is elevated to an end in itself.

lightbliss · May 22, 2010

Matthew said:

I see this written here quite a lot, the desire to have tests for STD's before going into the serious levels of a relationship and I think this speaks to society quietly going the way of mass paranoia.

To be clear, it's understandable if your partner has been a part of bad social groups in years gone by as there is a high probablity something could have been passed on and so a test is good for their long term health as well as providing peace of mind.

But this growing view that it should be a prerequisite to a marriage is not something I see any value in, to me it's a little like a pre-nup, you may have little to no reason to suspect there's any danger and yet you insist on it anyway for peace of mind, to me that speaks to a lack of trust being hidden behind the excuse of taking precautions.

A full disclousure of the past is essential but beyond that it's all about trust, I don't know how christians can talk about faith and believing in God bringing the right person etc....and then seek to scrutinise that person to ensure all is right, where is the faith in that?

If you feel that level of suspicion or concern can you honestly say you believe they are right person? surely the 'right' person should engender trust?, not anything else.

Ignorance is bliss.

amb3r · May 22, 2010

androozer said:

Well, let's take a look at some common Bible stories on this issue. One, I think you are discussing the theological standing of this topic. This is more than whether you want kids now or not. If I'm reading you properly and this is a discussion I've thought about some. Is it wrong to use contraceptive. I believe you are right in saying that there is an element of faith in not using them. And though we may know the science behind conception matthew we also know from scripture that God opens and closes wombs according to his will. Abraham and Sarah are a prime example. This idea of God sending children and not sending children is very prevalent throughout the Old Testament. So, you can make an argument that using contraceptives is a lack of faith. On the other side of the coin there are two elements. One, there may be a stewardship question depending on your financial standing. If a child would be economically difficult then you can make a biblical argument for using contraceptives as a way to be a good steward. Along those same lines there is the issue of your marriage relationship. It is meant to be a priority and you may need some time early on to grow that relationship. So, being a good husband and wife could mean focusing on that relationship over child raising for a while. In the end this will come down to you and your wifes personal conviction on the issue. But, there are some insights to help guide your thought process.

On another note, I'm curious about the Biblical precedent for claiming sex is for procreation only. The pleasure of sex is a gift of God. There is nothing wrong with enjoying that gift properly within the marriage relationship. That is what much of the Song of Solomon is about. Do, you have a Biblical argument for making the claim that sex for pleasure is wrong?

Ok yet we are suppose to take care of the earth but we drive cars that pollute it. sooo maybe we shouldnt drive cars either.

Fairly sexual question... but it's been playing on my mind.

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