evolutionist sister and my 2 yr old neice - conflict. any words?

[Rissa77]

My sister is 30. Her name is Brandy. She used to be a believer. She was even a moderator of a very famous Christian website. Now I find out all of the sudden that she doesn't believe God exists and she falls for the "humans came from monkeys" and "the amoeba just appeared out of nowhere, exploded, and formed the world" mess. And that's what it is. Mess. She is also in support of removing "In God we trust" out of everything. We talked about all that last year. The way she puts it, "If someone is going to teach my children about one religion, they have to teach about every other religion out there as well. I don't want my kids brainwashed."

She has a precious two-year old daughter and in less than two weeks will have a newborn son. Her hubby of 12 years doesn't want anything to do with church, but confusingly, Brandy is willing to go to services when I visit.

So I see a conflict coming. Her children are likely to not hear much about Jesus. Any of you experienced such conflict with family? How do I handle this gracefully?

[lightbliss]

Well since I've never experienced this type of situation I don't know what kind of advice to give.

So perhaps some scripture and what I think...?

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

Proverbs 14:12
There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death.

I suggest praying for your sister and ask her directly why she decided to "change."

As for your niece, whenever you spend time with her talk about different things like the world; its beauty, the people, the atomic matter (jk, unless you want to).

I don't suggest talking directly about Christ with your niece because if your sister finds out you've been "brainwashing" her daughter, she could shun you.

But since this is obviously important to you, do what you can. Read her a Bible story or take her to church.

Also your sister must still believe in God, why else would she attend service with you? So you won't be alone? To be a "good" sister?

When someone believes something is wrong, they don't go out of their way to prove it to everyone else, they just know whats what and they leave it alone.

This is why I don't make a fuss over other "religions" like some do for Christianity. You "know" God is "not real" so why are you desperately trying to prove so?

So God must be real, Christ must be our saviour, if not, people wouldn't care, they wouldn't take the time to put Him down.

What I'm trying to get at is: if your sister truly believed what she does, she'd, in no way, be going to church, for whatever reason.

I hope this makes sence.

God Bless

Originally Posted by Rissa77

My sister is 30. Her name is Brandy. She used to be a believer. She was even a moderator of a very famous Christian website. Now I find out all of the sudden that she doesn't believe God exists and she falls for the "humans came from monkeys" and "the amoeba just appeared out of nowhere, exploded, and formed the world" mess. And that's what it is. Mess. She is also in support of removing "In God we trust" out of everything. We talked about all that last year. The way she puts it, "If someone is going to teach my children about one religion, they have to teach about every other religion out there as well. I don't want my kids brainwashed."

She has a precious two-year old daughter and in less than two weeks will have a newborn son. Her hubby of 12 years doesn't want anything to do with church, but confusingly, Brandy is willing to go to services when I visit.

So I see a conflict coming. Her children are likely to not hear much about Jesus. Any of you experienced such conflict with family? How do I handle this gracefully?

Hi Rissa, sorry to hear you are having a few family issues. A few things pop to mind immediately from what you have written and following is my advice, from experience:

First up, I feel there is a misconception in that evolution opposes God's divine authorship of the universe and everything in it. I'm not sure why your sister feels that if evolution can account for our development from a cluster of cells to a human being, that this puts God out of the picture. It really does not, unless you adhere to a completely literal reading of Genesis and accept a sort of young earth creationism viewpoint. I would like to forward you to William Lane Craig's website, Reasonable Faith here:
Reasonable Faith: Video and Audio of Debates, Talks, Interviews with Dr. William Lane Craig

I recommend the debates and presentations on evidence for God and God's existence as Dr Craig specifically deals with the creation of the universe and God's hand in it.

Secondly, the idea that someone should learn about all religions, is a good and positive one Rissa. Really, what this comes down to is faith - and I use that word in the Biblical sense which is 'trust'. Throughout the course of a human's lifetime they will hear a million and one ideas, theories and hypotheses. You cannot, realistically shield them from all of them, and I question if that would only do more harm, if it were possible.

The reasoning behind this is that the new things, hold an excitement to them, the forbidden things, hold even more mystery and allure in them. Imagine, a child who has grown up, hearing nothing about any worldview except one. Having lived in that small enclosed space for so many years and then hits college, and is suddenly bombarded with all these differing worldviews. Several things could happen, in that they feel resentment to their teachers - be they their parents, friends or peers. They feel intrigued by these new ideas and often these new ideas will look vastly more exciting than the old and stagnating worldview they hold. This is when more often than not a paradigm shift will occur, as the old worldview is weakened and the new is strengthened.

To put all this in English, the more you tell someone not to touch the cookies on the table, the more they will want to have one.

So I feel the conclusion is two fold, first up, there is no harm in testing and exploring everything presented to us. The Bible puts it like so:

"Test Everything, Hold on to the Good." (1 Thessalonions 5:21)

Now, if God has this much faith (trust) in us, in His creations to reason what is fact from fiction, then I think we can have equal trust in His divine foresight in this matter.

Just because the child may learn about many things, of which only one can be true, it does not mean that he will not find that true one, and hold on to it. All in God's timeframe.

If your sister is open, you can share this with her, and ask her in fact, if you could be her child's Christian teacher, and affirm you feel it's good to make sure her children are best equipped with all the information possible.

All the best!

[Saved_by_grace]

First of all, it is a conflict of worldviews, the battle isn't over evidence, even though there is absolutely NO Evidence for evolution

A worldview is how you view your world, and the world around you. It is made up of basic thoughts and Ideas called Presuppositions. In order to interpret your world you make pressuppositions about it
You presuppose that your:
Your Senses are relaiable
There is an absolute morality
Laws of Logic
Uniformity in nature

Now, These presuppositions, you basically, just beleive without ever thinking about it. Think about this question

Why will the sun come up tommorrow? Is it because it always does? well how do you know your memory is reliable from yesterday?


In a Biblical worldview, I can account for all of my presuppositions, because they stem from God's Word, and His promises to uphold the universe in a certain percptable way


In an Evolutionary worldview, or Humans decide truth, you definately cannot account for any of these presuppositions


for example. If i killed your brother, how can I be blamed for it, According to Evolution I am a simple chemical mistake, why woulld it be wrong for me to kill another chemical mistake, especailly if it mean more survival benefit for myself

It's like having mental glasses, when you see everything through Evolution, the world appears Red, not that the world is red, it just looks that way. When you look through God's Word mental glasses, you see the way that the world actually is

[Saved_by_grace]

I also became a beleiver in a secular school, in the Geology program. I loved God's Word, and beleived it as the truth that it is, but struggled with the first 11 chapters in Genesis. To deny their literal Historical, as Jesus' Hermaneutics of Genesis 1-11, really left me inconsistent to the Biblical Worldview. So if you want to know more, I have tons more stuff. I am a presuppositional apologetics type of guy. Evidence doesn't solve anything, thomin, from Thomas Aquinas, has only led to Atheism

[Rissa77]

Thank you for your replies.

Lightbliss, I do wonder at the possibility of her not being sure on her stance, but when I visited her, I didn't have my car so there was no other way for me to get there. lol That day she was being a good sister. But I'm going to test that this December when I visit. I want to go to T.D. Jakes's church. We'll see if she goes then.

Digitalos, it's funny you mention being her Christian teacher, because I am going to school in the fall to be a teacher. And I agree with you on the learning about other religions, but I don't do it so that I can pick a truth out of the bunch. I would be careful the way you present that to unbelievers. They could take it as "there are many truths and many falsities in each one, so I just pick and choose and make my own truth out of many." I know college kids who do this because they were told to explore the possibilities, instead of being told that the Bible is the only truth, but knowing about other religions is good so you can defend your faith. And that is what I do. I study in order to defend my faith. Also, I do believe in a literal interpretation of Genesis. If I can't take Genesis literally, then how can I take the rest of the Bible literally? I have a problem with allegorical theology. It messes with the integrity of God and His Word and I will not stand for that.

I'll pray about the teaching thing. Not sure how that will go as of now, since my sister still sees me as a kid sometimes. But talking about nature and it's intricacy as lightbliss suggested, is a definite! I do that with adults on a regular basis. I love how O.C.D. our God is! ^_^

[Rissa77]

Originally Posted by Saved_by_grace

for example. If i killed your brother, how can I be blamed for it, According to Evolution I am a simple chemical mistake, why woulld it be wrong for me to kill another chemical mistake, especailly if it mean more survival benefit for myself

HAHAHAAA The first thing I pictured was someone telling this to all the men in a prison and watching them try to convince the police to let them free. I love it! And it's funny how they'll deny the life of a child, but killing a grown man in unacceptable. Thanks for the laugh!

[Rissa77]

Originally Posted by Saved_by_grace

I am a presuppositional apologetics type of guy.

WOOO!! Apologetics!!!!! I love it, man! It's thrilling!

[greatkraw]

Originally Posted by Rissa77

My sister is 30. Her name is Brandy. She used to be a believer. She was even a moderator of a very famous Christian website. Now I find out all of the sudden that she doesn't believe God exists and she falls for the "humans came from monkeys" and "the amoeba just appeared out of nowhere, exploded, and formed the world" mess. And that's what it is. Mess. She is also in support of removing "In God we trust" out of everything. We talked about all that last year. The way she puts it, "If someone is going to teach my children about one religion, they have to teach about every other religion out there as well. I don't want my kids brainwashed."

She has a precious two-year old daughter and in less than two weeks will have a newborn son. Her hubby of 12 years doesn't want anything to do with church, but confusingly, Brandy is willing to go to services when I visit.

So I see a conflict coming. Her children are likely to not hear much about Jesus. Any of you experienced such conflict with family? How do I handle this gracefully?

I think handling things gracefully is over rated

I would suggest that you read any piece of biological literature and realize your sister is right.

[zeroturbulence]

I would love to hear the opinion of some of the folks who believe that you can never lose your salvation.

Sorry Rissa, I am still pondering your predicament but will have an actual reply for you later...

[zeroturbulence]

Originally Posted by Chris_lemon

I would suggest that you read any piece of biological literature and realize your sister is right.

Why not share a sentence or two from biological literature that proves evolution for us. Surely, if its so easily found you won't have any problem with that.

Of course you'll probably respond by asking me to prove that God exists, but lets forget about God for now. Pretend we never heard about God. Just show us a little proof of evolution. Just one or two sentences is all Im asking.

[zeroturbulence]

Originally Posted by greatkraw

I think handling things gracefully is over rated

Be not hasty in thy spirit to be angry: for anger resteth in the bosom of fools.
Ephesians 7:9

Firstly, why does the existence of a God have anything to do with the theory of evolution? It's not one or the other.

Secondly, here is a short but effective lesson on evolution directed at school children

Galápagos tortoise evolution http://www.swarthmore.edu/NatSci/cpu...s/tortoise.htm

For more proof like this, watch some nature documentaries with David Attenborough, they are awesome

[Saved_by_grace]

It's kind of funny, how he said all Biological literature, like he has read it or has taken the time to find out the secular authors who write against evolution; whats the word for people who do that?

[Saved_by_grace]

First, all supposed Evolution happening is actually natrual selection, or rather God's Quality control program. Second if you want some Biological Literature that goes against the Paradigm of Evolution, by someone who makes a disclaimer about not being a creationist read "of moth's and men" by Judith Hooper, on the Fallacy of the peppered moth

[Saved_by_grace]

There is NO evidence for evolution, only a faulty worldview that tries to suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because the existence of God would be detrimental to their belief


2 Questions

How did the first supposed simple organism Evolve, and then how did it replicate it's information in order to reproduce another supposed simple creature

Secondly, here is a short but effective lesson on evolution directed at school children

Galápagos tortoise evolution http://www.swarthmore.edu/NatSci/cpu...s/tortoise.htm

So turtles with longer necks than other turtles is proof that we all evolved from a common ancestor? Perhaps if you think about this for a moment you will understand why some Christians have such a hard time taking proselytizers of evolution seriously.

Look, here is proof of the common descent of cycles:

unicycle


to bicycle


Then of course there is the Galapagos Islands bicycle:


You see what happened was one pregnant female bicycle was blown over to the island in a storm etc. etc...

And here is proof that the Honda Del Sol is an extinct cousin of the Mazda Miata





...As they say, a picture (and a "just so" story) is worth a thousand words (and apparently a scientific proof too!).

For more proof like this, watch some nature documentaries with David Attenborough, they are awesome

If you take one specious “proof” and add another specious “proof” it doesn’t make your entire theory any more plausible.

The existence of God has a lot of things to do with evolution because evolution (a lot of varying theories) in general explains how life originated and how everything came into existence in a completely materialistic stand point thus, discarding the existence / necessity for a creator.

Evolution necessitates the idea that all life began from a common ancestor. This, then conflicts with the bible's teaching that God created everything as they are and not from a simple cell primordial ooze that supposedly evolved throughout time via bolts of electricity / adaptation.

Intelligent design and evolution are the two major pillars of supposed truths accepted and are in conflict today. There are varying theories of evolution but I won't go over them because I don't have a robust background in that stuff. What's interesting though is that there are theistic evolutionists and one can be a Christian and still believe in evolution although, there are many conflicting issues about it depending on the type of theory you hold.

Rissa77, I suggest you ask your sister why exactly she embraced evolution and chose not to believe in God. Some people choose not to believe in God because 1. They don't believe in the supernatural, 2. They are persuaded by the evidence presented by evolution and so much more... I'd be able to give you some pointers on how to respond if you could share your sister's reasons why she chose to be an atheist. I'll post some resources and books later if you'd like.

I'm not an apologist but I'm currently studying stuff in this area. I hope this helps.

I'm a christian but still believe in evolution, I guess relativism still alive lol