debating atheists

[mcap]

Sorry If this is the wrong forum.I was surfing the www and found a site called rationalresponders where atheists discuss their beliefs and try to convince believers there is no God.What do you guys think about going on sites like that and debating.I know that someone just starting out in their walk with God should not do it but what about battle-tested Christians?

 

[lil-rush]

I'm not really into seeking out debates with non-believers of any sort. If they want to come to me and talk about it, fine. Or if on a site I've been a part of for some time a debate is started about such things I'd be willing to start in on the debate, but I'm not going to go to a site specifically designed to argue with athiests about why God is or is not real.

 

[1still_waters]

If you feel a calling to apologetics and a more intellectual way of presenting the faith, it might be good to do. Just be prepared for a fight. If you can't stand the sight of your own figurative blood, I wouldn't do it. Because things can get very heated.

 

[carpetmanswife]

I used to get on yahoo religion forums , what a mistake that was. What it turned out to be was a chritian bashing fest. No matter what 'the christian' said it was ridiculed and mocked. I continued for some time to go there .I soon realized that i was feeling more darkness than light and being weighed down , strongly led by God i completely stopped going , We are children of the light not darkness . A person that is TRULY called by God to step into such situations by all means go for it. But not all have the same calling , we must choose our battles wisely ,1 corinthians 15:33Be not deceived : evil communications corrupt good manners....communications in the greek meaning companionship. **Ya lay down with dogs ya gonna get fleas **

 

[BLC]

To debate, reason or dialog with this group is almost always fruitless and exhausting because they are not open and the soil of their heart is not soft or fertile. If they were open they would receive what you have to say. God has given us the light to shine unto them who live in darkness and if they are not open to receive the light there is not much you can do except give them the gospel seasoned with a little salt and go on. There are three groups that we are to beware of in (Phil 3:2) and they fall within that cluster. Carpenterswife is a wise woman with good discernment and has the skilled tongue of a ready writer (Ps 45:1).

 

[Groundhog]

We must not avoid the debate with atheism, but I think most Christians are ill-equipped to enter into these debates. Remember that many Atheists are intelligent and rational: being atheist or agnostic is a reasonable position to have, so remember to approach atheists/agnostics with respect. A good place to begin is to watch debates, listen to speeches, or read books by some of the more prominent and eloquent atheists, such as Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, and Daniel Dennett. The only way to have a good debate with an atheists is to understand them--understanding them to the point that you can see why they believe what they believe. In most of the debates I've seen, I find myself getting frustrated with the Christian, because he/she did not really answer the legitimate question raised by the atheist. If Christianity is true, it will be able to withstand all scrutiny, so do not be afraid: be honest, and be educated.

 

[BLC]

Becoming all things to all men does not mean that I become educated as to how an atheist thinks and what kind of presuppositions they have to offer, so that I can refute them with that which is perceived in the realm of sight evidence and objective sciences. They have there place, but our proof of the resurrected Christ and all the related sciences that revolve around Him as the creator of all things and as the Lamb of God who took away the sins of the world has been testified and witnessed by men who were with Him and given inspiration by the Holy Spirit to write those things that had seen and heard. Others were given revelation through the verbal inspiration of the Holy Spirit that became the written word and a testament of God to man. This takes us out of the realm of sight and brings us into faith so that all can believe. We do not need to disprove their suppositions or presuppositions as to what the truth is about man in relationship to his environment without God. Man needs to accept the authority of what God has established without man. Atheism is nothing more than a system of humanism that denies God. It is a system of perception by man and for man without God, so that man can be the author and authority of his own life. The cross of Jesus Christ destroyed this system of perception that men without God consider to be foolishness.

1Cor 3:19-21 'For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain. Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's'.

 

[Groundhog]

Atheists are simply search for the truth, as many of us are. Your search may have led you to Christ, but their search led them to believe there is no God. They are not bad people; they have simply come to a different conclusion, and they did so through using reason, logic, and even moral judgment. We are all atheists when it comes to Zeus or Thor, so we should not be surprised that there are people who do not believe in our God. Atheists are not "in denial" about God, and they did not become atheists simply so that they could make up their own rules: there are exceptions to this, just as there are in any group, but our real problem is not with those who resist God out of immaturity or selfishness. The real problem is logical, rational, and moral people who do not believe that God exists, or that the Bible is holier than any other book.

 

[fromtheriver]

Well my faith is also being at question due to my mind thinking maybe I can figure out my problems with my own common sense, not to mention I was feeling fake.


But then few fellow Christians convinced me that God loves me, he only wants me to be happy and to follow his word. As long as I stick to the proof he gave me that he's there listening I shouldn't feel like he isn't there.


Logic questioned me because I was thinking maybe some of these problems can be solved only by common sense, but I realized God loves us, gave us free will, and obviously isn't gonna let us act stupid and ignore how we really feel.


I don't like that these websites are trying to convince other believers that God doesn't exist, because they don't have proof to disprove God.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Sorry If this is the wrong forum.I was surfing the www and found a site called rationalresponders where atheists discuss their beliefs and try to convince believers there is no God.What do you guys think about going on sites like that and debating.I know that someone just starting out in their walk with God should not do it but what about battle-tested Christians?

Peace be to you
Psalm 53

 

[Groundhog]

I don't like that these websites are trying to convince other believers that God doesn't exist, because they don't have proof to disprove God.

They also don't have evidence that disproves the existence of Zeus or Apollo or Horace, but neither do we, and yet we say that there is only one God.

Not being able to disprove something is a terrible reason to believe in that thing. Sure, just about anything is possible, but we have to be rational in deciding what is reasonable to believe. I think believing in the Christian God is reasonable, but for many people believing in God is as silly as believing in Apollo or Horace. If you thought 1 Billion people were being duped into believing a lie or a myth, wouldn't you want to convince them of the truth too? Isn't that, in fact, what Christians are called to do?

Remember, they are doing what they do because they believe they are spreading truth.

 

[Grimaldus]

Don't argue if you don't think the other party is willing to listen to rational thought. You could have a water tight argument, but if the other member is not willing to understand it's wasted. That's the main problem I have with those sorts of sites, some people are so deeply rutted in their ways that they refute everything. This applies both ways of course, strive to understand the other sides point. I would also say that I agree with alot of what groundhog has to say on the matter of respecting your opponent.

 

[Dragoon9]

I'd agree with the bulk of the above posts. 'Debate' (where 1 or all sides are trying to prove their idea is correct) is a useless activity. Discussion, where both sides are actively listening and replying is entirely healthy.

I might also add that spiritual discernment itself is a gift from God, and part of recognizing someone who has been prepared by God to 'hear' the gospel is their ability to understand spiritual things.

 

[Dragoon9]

Oh... forgot to mention, while apologetics and great rational arguments are important to clear up our own understanding, they do little to help others to believe.

For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel--not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God....
Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom,but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. (1 Co 17, 22-24)

It is not our words, arguments or philosophy that has power to move people, it is God's words through His power and our submission.

Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. (Ro 10:17)

 

[Groundhog]

It is true that intellectual arguments alone are unlikely to persuade an unbeliever. People should be drawn to the Christian faith because of its message of love, grace, and forgiveness. Still, we must be sure of what we believe, and we must not be afraid to be questioned. If we are defending the truth, it should be able to hold up to any scrutiny. We have to be humble by saying that we cannot prove the resurrection or Jesus' miracles, and that we believe certain things on faith (since we lack the evidence to back it up). And please do not dismiss those who have trouble believing because they use their brains: I doubt that God gave us intellect just so we could avoid using it.

 

[pogrud]

Interesting discussion here. I'm an atheist although I was brought up Christian. I come on here because I like to hear other peoples point of view. I like learning about different philosophies and religions and have friends with many different outlooks.

Groundhog, your viewpoint towards atheists is very refreshing. I wish more Christians shared a similar view. I totally agree that it's important not to be afraid of being questioned, in fact I think it's healthy to be provoked to think about the reason for your beliefs (everyone, not just Christians).

BLC, I disagree that such discussion is fruitless and exhausting. This probably is the case if you approach such a debate trying only to convince everyone else that you're right and they're wrong, as implied from your post. If both sides are willing to talk through their viewpoints and understand that they may have different interpretations then a lot can be gained. I think you've misunderstood atheism as I understand it - you need to view it from outside of a theist perspecive - its not so much the case of 'there is no god, therefore...' rather more '...does this necessarily imply there is god(s)'

Fromtheriver, I liked your comments too (as I understood them).

I don't like that these websites are trying to convince other believers that God doesn't exist, because they don't have proof to disprove God.

I wouldn't like them either if that is what they're doing. I don't like preaching. Likewise, I don't believe in a God (although I don't claim to know for certain) because no religion has proof to convince me otherwise. I think you're right that a balance of common sense and reasoning is needed. If you want a God too, that's fine and it's your belief.

Mcap, to answer your original point from an atheists perspective. I think it'd be a good thing for more Christians to go on to those sorts of sites (and other religions for that matter) and enter into discussions as long as it's done with respect and doesn't turn into preaching or a slagging match. People of different beliefs have different interpretations on things. There is not always a clear right or wrong, if there were, everyone would believe in the same thing. I think it's really beneficial to try to understand things from another point of view - both on a personal level and for society.

 

[Lauren]

I used to get on yahoo religion forums , what a mistake that was. What it turned out to be was a chritian bashing fest. No matter what 'the christian' said it was ridiculed and mocked. I continued for some time to go there .

AOL chatrooms are the same way. Bloodfest. All the Christians fighting over their "right" doctrine and all the nonbelievers attacking the believers. Raised my blood pressure too much (not in an angry way, but more like a spirit of chaos and unrest emanates from the conversations).

God can work on anyone's heart at any time, but those chatrooms don't provide a lot of opportunity to offer God's message since they seem to be nothing but mayhem most of the time.

 

[jaylynn83]

I really dont feel its a good idea...... simply because both parties think they are right.... And neither one will back down.

 

[carpetmanswife]

I really dont feel its a good idea...... simply because both parties think they are right.... And neither one will back down.

i agree jaylynn debating seems fruitless to me ..altho its ez to get caught up into ..VERY ez.

 

[Groundhog]

I really dont feel its a good idea...... simply because both parties think they are right.... And neither one will back down.

No debate is fruitful unless both parties are willing to listen, and open to what the other person is saying, and debates are usually set up like a battle, where one person tries to beat the other. How about we make a distinction between "debate" and "conversation". Most of us won't be on a stage in a lecture hall debating an atheist, but we might enter a conversation with with a friend or acquaintance who is an atheist. Going back and forth with that person on the issues seems good and fine to me. But, as we said, if the person is just being stubborn, and not really listening (or you're being stubborn), then the conversation might not be worthwhile. Still, we never know what seeds can be planted even in conversations that seemed pointless or fruitless at the time.