Dealing With Sexual Harassment in the Work Place (From Customers.)

[seoulsearch]

Hello everyone,

I would like to get some advice regarding how to deal with sexual harassment in the work place--from customers. This means you can't fight back, you can't defend yourself, and you can't do anything but stand there and take it because anything else means the loss of a sale, and especially in this economy, no boss will keep an employee who loses a sale. (And I don't work at a bar, but rather, a small, family-owned grocery store.)

Some of the things I'm talking about are:

1. A co-worker being told by an older male customer that she probably "has a second job (at an adult entertainment establishment)" and that he would "love to visit her there." (She most certainly does not work in such a place--she is a hard-working, single Christian mom.)

2. An older male customer offering money to some of our young female cashiers to "pay him a visit" at his house, explicitly telling them it won't be for housework.

3. A man in his 70's asked me if I had been keeping busy at work, and I said, "Yup, they have to keep me out of trouble somehow!" His reply? "I'd love to take you home and show you what trouble really is."

I was too shocked to even think of anything clever to say. Our boss shrugs it all off as just a part of everyday life... and I know this is mile compared to what some of you out there probably face.

But as Christians... What is the best thing to do?

[Ugly]

Well, since your boss is lazy and ignorant i'd go over his head and explain the situation to his boss, and explain that your boss refuses to deal with it. Really it's your bosses and the company's responsibility to protect their employee's, even from customers.
I'm not sure what kind of business you work in, but at jobs i've had in the past, i would simply tell them that if they spoke to you that way again you would not be assisting them.
Could also look into any possible legal recourse if this is a repeat offender.
You could check if any other women in your business are experiencing this and are unhappy with it. Your boss may not be concerned about one person complaining, but if you get a group that continues to complain he'll be forced into acting eventually.

[zeroturbulence]

Laugh and the world laughs with you. I sure laughed at #3 lol

But seriously there's nothing you can do and like the old saying goes...stick and stones can break my bones, but words will never hurt me. If it were me I'd take it as a compliment because they would only say that if they found you attractive. They wouldn't dare say it to someone they found unattractive because she might take them up on the offer!

[Snackersmom]

^^^^^ That's so "guy" of you, Mr. Turbulence . A little good-natured flirting might be seen as something of a compliment, but the things Seoulsearch mentioned would make most women pretty uncomfortable. My family owns our business, so I can pretty much say whatever I want without fear of repercussion, but trust me, these guys know they're being creeps. They won't be too surprised if you say something like "don't flatter yourself, buster" or even harsher. Your boss is nuts if he gets upset at you over something like that. I know these comments catch you off-guard, but try to have some comebacks ready, if can .

[seoulsearch]

Ugly--unfortunately, the boss I spoke of who just expects us to brush it off IS the main boss--there is no one higher than him. With all the competition in the industry, our boss doesn't want any bad press or negativity that will scare off potential sales.

I've always wondered if larger chains, such as Walmart, does anything to protect their employees? There is protection from other co-workers and bosses, but not from customers, unfortunately--at least, to my knowledge.

Zero--maybe I'm being too sensitive and I do know what you're saying , but as a woman, this is highly disturbing.

I know it may be slightly different for guys... I guess the best way to describe it, Zero, is if a male customer came into your place of employment regularly and insulted your manliness through whatever most degrading insults he could choose and implied that you were a sex object there for the taking--this is exactly what these guys are doing to us.

If a guy had to deal with someone insulting his character and identity as a responsible adult, he wouldn't appreciate it at all--and as women, we don't appreciate it either.

I'm guessing there are a lot of people out there who deal with this... especially in retail and service industries, such as in restaurants...

[zeroturbulence]

Originally Posted by seoulsearch

Ugly--unfortunately, the boss I spoke of who just expects us to brush it off IS the main boss--there is no one higher than him. With all the competition in the industry, our boss doesn't want any bad press or negativity that will scare off potential sales.

I've always wondered if larger chains, such as Walmart, does anything to protect their employees? There is protection from other co-workers and bosses, but not from customers, unfortunately--at least, to my knowledge.

Zero--maybe I'm being too sensitive and I do know what you're saying , but as a woman, this is highly disturbing.

I know it may be slightly different for guys... I guess the best way to describe it, Zero, is if a male customer came into your place of employment regularly and insulted your manliness through whatever most degrading insults he could choose and implied that you were a sex object there for the taking--this is exactly what these guys are doing to us.

If a guy had to deal with someone insulting his character and identity as a responsible adult, he wouldn't appreciate it at alll--and as women, we don't appreciate it either.

I don't want to brag here but I worked with a few women who made sexual comments to me sort of like the ones you're talking about and I thought it was cool and laughed it up with them. They were significantly older than me (but single) so I never took them seriously. I think it has a lot to do with our own self image. Back then I felt attractive because I seemed to get a lot of attention from women. I used to workout almost everyday, had a 32" waist, was into bodybuilding and ran 3 miles a day at the gym. Oh how I wish I could relive those days (sigh).

[violakat]

Originally Posted by seoulsearch

Hello everyone,

I would like to get some advice regarding how to deal with sexual harassment in the work place--from customers. This means you can't fight back, you can't defend yourself, and you can't do anything but stand there and take it because anything else means the loss of a sale, and especially in this economy, no boss will keep an employee who loses a sale. (And I don't work at a bar, but rather, a small, family-owned grocery store.)

Some of the things I'm talking about are:

1. A co-worker being told by an older male customer that she probably "has a second job (at an adult entertainment establishment)" and that he would "love to visit her there." (She most certainly does not work in such a place--she is a hard-working, single Christian mom.)

2. An older male customer offering money to some of our young female cashiers to "pay him a visit" at his house, explicitly telling them it won't be for housework.

3. A man in his 70's asked me if I had been keeping busy at work, and I said, "Yup, they have to keep me out of trouble somehow!" His reply? "I'd love to take you home and show you what trouble really is."

I was too shocked to even think of anything clever to say. Our boss shrugs it all off as just a part of everyday life... and I know this is mile compared to what some of you out there probably face.

But as Christians... What is the best thing to do?

Seoul, I've had to deal with this before, and yes it is a hard thing to try and decide what to do. I was going to say have a manager around, but, this would not work in this case. If you work at a large department store, go to HR, and explain the situation. Your boss should have been standing up for you. If you work for a smaller store, not really sure, unless you can find a better job else where. And let the boss, and his superior know why you are leaving.

If this man comes back, try to have a male coworker with you at all times, and possibly even deal with him. Also, you can fight back by saying, that you don't appreciate it, and will not put up with it. Especially if you have witnesses around. Just remember, the law is on your side, in this situation. And customers do not have the right to say this type of things. But you still may face the risk of losing your job.

[seoulsearch]

*smile* Zero, you know I think you are a stellar person and have all the respect in the world for you... but for me... it's one thing for a guy to say, "Hey, you're very attractive," or, "You have a great smile," but when it turns into, "Wow, I wish you worked at the local strip club because I've love to be able to tip you up close and in person," "If you want to earn some extra money, come on over to my place sometime and I'll let you earn it," and, "I'd love for you to follow me home like a little puppy and wait on me hand and foot..." I'm NOT flattered at all... nor are the women I work with.

I guess it also points out a major difference between the genders here--women find these comments degrading and humiliating... while men find them to be bragging points...

Maybe it's just me? Hmm. Maybe I'm making a big deal out of nothing? If all of you out there never have to deal with such things at your places of work, please let me know!! I'd like to drop off an application and a resume as soon as possible!!

Actually, I HAVE been praying about this a lot... for either the grace to just let it go or a comeback that won't get me in trouble!!! If I should encounter the strip club comments, I figure I'll tell them, "Really? You go to places like that? It's really too bad--you struck me as a man who would have more class than that."

(Just read Viola's post)--the man who made the comment to me is a regular customer with one of our larger accounts. Our boss would never say anything to him--wouldn't want to lose the business. Unfortunately, we've all come to accept that this is how it is. Doesn't make us feel any less objectified though.

[kayem77]

Seoul, I honestly think you shouldnt put up with this, and your boss should handle this situation properly, at least get him talk to the customer because whether he is an ''important costumer'' or not, he is a perv, and your boss should protect his employees somehow.

And I agree with you, there is a difference between saying '' you are cute'', ''i love your smile, or hair, or etc'', and saying,'' hey hotty wanna come to my house and have some fun?'' ,that's insulting and degrading. There's a difference between genders, being realistic, a guy should know that there are proper ways to talk to a lady, because we are physically weaker and the social context is different too.

I worked in a shoe store when I was 17. I didn't have constant stalkers , but there were some occasions when a guy would show a...weird, creepy behavior. Good thing I had a male co-worker, he was also the manager, and we would have each other's back.He even said that if a guy was disrespectful, it was better to lose the sale than allowing something bad to happen . It was kind of a big store btw, they had 8 stores in total, a family-owned business.

After that job, I worked in a boutique, they had many branches around the city too. It was family owned by my best friend's parent's, so it was a safe environment for me. Actually, they were very nice to all the other employees as well, we were all girls, so they set especial rules for our protection.
I worked afternoon shift in one of their stores, mine was small so i was the only clerk, as well as the co-manager (with the woman who worked in the morning shift). They used to say ''always lock the door and if you see a man coming into the store, and he looks suspicious, dont open it for him'' and ''your safety comes first''. The same was told to the other girls of all the branches, and I really admired that of them. They are not greedy and still, they are very very succesful.

That's why I think you can be succesful and still take responsibility for your employees. Maybe you can't lock the door as I did haha but your boss can surely talk to the customer, especially if this keeps happening and its not a one time thing. I'm sure something can be done, whatever it is. Taking personal safety measures is a good idea too. I used to keep the store's phone with me and pretend that i was talking to another store if I saw someone suspicious haha. Anyways, I hope you find the best solution God bless.

[zeroturbulence]

Believe me ladies...if/when the day ever comes that you lose your beauty and attractiveness you'll miss the days when men paid this much attention to you. Then when a young, pretty co-worker complains about this stuff you can pat her on the shoulder and tell her to enjoy it while she can.

BUT..I'm not advocating sexual harassment. I know that its serious when a coworker harasses a woman, but we are talking about customers/strangers that you have no control over.

[jimsun]

Hi Seoulsearch & Hope your well, despite seemingly having a boss who is ignorant, benighted & brain-dead!
I'm puzzled that you're living & working in the US yet appear to have no legislation in place, akin to the 2010 Equality Act here in the UK.
I'm a little different as my brain injury & epilepsy deems me "disabled" - but surely you have State/Federal legislation allowing you to confront such appalling behaviour.
My work role is involved with Central Govt but I am responsible for a number of staff who have front-line contact with the public. I also enforce a "Zero-tolerance" approach to the type of incident you describe. I refuse to subject my staff to the slightest acts of abuse, threat or intimidation whether @ Reception or on the phone.
In Reception, panic alarms are there to be used.
On the phone I instruct a staff member to hang up on their abuser.
They cannot be accused of misconduct, etc. As long as they have activated the 'record' facility, taping the call & say (from my prepared script), "I am sorry
but I find the tone, manner & context of what you say abusive, intimidating, insulting & threatening. I have no wish to continue speaking with you & am termination this call immediately. Goodbye". (Hang up).
Nobody frightens my staff & gets away with it & nor should you have to endure this behaviour. Go way beyond your line manager as they may be unwilling to take it up themselves as any incident will reflect
on their abilities to manage. A subtle yet
Obvious threat to speak to your local newspaper will always work.
It's not who you send the letters to but who you send the copies to!!
Our laws may be different but the problem is fundamentally similar. Let me know if you need something else with "teeth"!
J.

[Good-Ground]

Sexual harassment laws do extend to customers as long as the employer knows about the offensive behavior and has a chance to fix the problem. Customer harassment is a lot like co-worker harassment. Until you speak up, the employer may not have enough reason to suspect that the company’s client is harassing you and making your job miserable. (it's called creating a hostile work environment)

First you have to make the offender aware (in case he's to dumb to realize) that his comment is unwelcome, offensive, you don't appreciate it and you want it to stop. Then you have to make it VERY CLEAR to your boss that being sexually harassed is not something you or anyone else is required to take as a part of your job and you want him to correct the problem. If it means him saying something to the customer or taking over to finish up business. Your boss could be liable for sexual harassment if he is aware of it and thinks it's a matter to be shrugged off. Not that you would take it that far but someday someone else might. If he doesn't think it's a big deal it doesn't matter because it's a big deal to you. Tell him he could lose other customers if they were to overhear someone treating you in such a degrading manner.

Put your foot down about it with the customer and your boss. You don't have to be nasty, just firm and serious. The last thing you want to do is laugh it off or ignore it because that would be saying it's not a problem for you. Tell your boss if it happens again you are going to walk away from the customer and get him to take care of business with them because that's how offended you are by it and you have had enough. If there is another employee being harassed approach your boss together. By law and reasonable business practice you don't have to put up with it.

[violakat]

Originally Posted by Good-Ground

Sexual harassment laws do extend to customers as long as the employer knows about the offensive behavior and has a chance to fix the problem. Customer harassment is a lot like co-worker harassment. Until you speak up, the employer may not have enough reason to suspect that the company’s client is harassing you and making your job miserable. (it's called creating a hostile work environment)

First you have to make the offender aware (in case he's to dumb to realize) that his comment is unwelcome, offensive, you don't appreciate it and you want it to stop. Then you have to make it VERY CLEAR to your boss that being sexually harassed is not something you or anyone else is required to take as a part of your job and you want him to correct the problem. If it means him saying something to the customer or taking over to finish up business. Your boss could be liable for sexual harassment if he is aware of it and thinks it's a matter to be shrugged off. Not that you would take it that far but someday someone else might. If he doesn't think it's a big deal it doesn't matter because it's a big deal to you. Tell him he could lose other customers if they were to overhear someone treating you in such a degrading manner.

Put your foot down about it with the customer and your boss. You don't have to be nasty, just firm and serious. The last thing you want to do is laugh it off or ignore it because that would be saying it's not a problem for you. Tell your boss if it happens again you are going to walk away from the customer and get him to take care of business with them because that's how offended you are by it and you have had enough. If there is another employee being harassed approach your boss together. By law and reasonable business practice you don't have to put up with it.

Good Ground, I agree that this is probably the best approach to handling it, however, be aware that not everybody can afford to lose a job. If you know of a law that will prevent Kim from losing her job, while she stands her ground, will you mention it. Also, where she can find the laws in regards to customers harassing employees, that she can use to back her claim. (I know there has to be, just not sure where to find them.) And I don't mean actually just tell her what it is, but where she can find them on paper, so she can show her boss how serious it is.

Also Kim, if you don't have a lawyer, get hold of a employment lawyer, and see what they suggest to do.

[violakat]

Originally Posted by zeroturbulence

Believe me ladies...if/when the day ever comes that you lose your beauty and attractiveness you'll miss the days when men paid this much attention to you. Then when a young, pretty co-worker complains about this stuff you can pat her on the shoulder and tell her to enjoy it while she can.

BUT..I'm not advocating sexual harassment. I know that its serious when a coworker harasses a woman, but we are talking about customers/strangers that you have no control over.

Zero, if you had an 18 year old daughter, would you allow her to be propositioned by a customer at work, and let the manager look the other way?

What you may not realize, is that sometimes customers can become stalkers, or even threatening, over time. I had a cousin, who worked at a store, where another employee had been followed by a customer, and then murdered later during the day.

So, what you're not realizing, is that sexual harassment, or harassment of any sorts, can lead to potentially dangerous situations, especially if it's not stopped right away.

[Snackersmom]

Violakat is right, don't let this progress. I don't know what your boss would allow, but surely you could say SOMETHING.

I have noticed that a snappy "Watch it, pal" said with a bit of a fiery glance can really take the wind out of a guy's sails. He knows he's being a creep.

[asd101]

Cold looks... ...

[Christianrkchk89]

Not that this helps you any.. But I work at k-mart and there are a few creepy guys known to flirt with the girls in fashions (including me) .. One of the guys has a serious foot fetish and our GM in the store is nice enough to actually ask him to leave if he starts bothering us! The security guy used to follow him around to make sure he didn't bother us either.. So some of them care more about their worker than the sales

[Jordache]

I just did a sexual harassment training. Dealing with it is a hassle, but you need to. It's illegal for your boss to ignore it. If he/she won't handle it then they can lose their
Business. Take it the boss and tell them flat out that something has to be done. Legally they are in a bind. If they fire you they face an expensive wrongful termination suit. If they ignore you, then they get sued for supporting an unsafe and harrassinf work environment.

[Good-Ground]

Originally Posted by violakat

Good Ground, I agree that this is probably the best approach to handling it, however, be aware that not everybody can afford to lose a job. If you know of a law that will prevent Kim from losing her job, while she stands her ground, will you mention it. Also, where she can find the laws in regards to customers harassing employees, that she can use to back her claim. (I know there has to be, just not sure where to find them.) And I don't mean actually just tell her what it is, but where she can find them on paper, so she can show her boss how serious it is.

Also Kim, if you don't have a lawyer, get hold of a employment lawyer, and see what they suggest to do.

There are Federal and state laws. Federal Laws apply to employers with 15 or more employees. Sexual harassment by definition extends to customers because it covers the workplace. If you complain to your boss his only defense is he took corrective action. You could consider contacting the offender’s company and report him if that’s an option. By reporting him to his company they could be brought into the action if necessary by their awareness.

Your boss can’t make your life on the job more difficult, demote you or fire you if you complain about sexual harassment. There are specific retaliation laws that would make your employer liable for damages. Retaliation can be a separate action in itself.

Before you talk to your boss you might call your State’s Department of Labor and the EEOC (state regulatory agency) to see what advice they give you.

Important things to do:

1. Tell the offender his comments are unwelcome, offensive and you want them to stop
2. Tell your boss
3. Keep a record of any harassment episodes, your complaints, and any incidents related to the harassment -- including dates, times, persons involved, and what was said. Having a witness in every aspect of addressing the issue and observing acts are important if you have to bring a lawsuit either for sexual harassment or retaliation. It would be a good idea to complain in writing but if you approach with another co-worker he can’t say we never had a conversation about it. You will want to establish there is a pattern of harassment. For example one comment is not enough to establish a claim of S.H.

I hope this helps. You should be able to cut and paste these links.

Good resource and contacts
www.equalrights.org/publications/kyr/shwork.asp

www.expertlaw.com/library/employment/sexual_harassment.html

www.eeoc.gov/policy/docs/harassment.html

http://employment.findlaw.com/employment/employment-employee-discrimination-harassment/employment-employee-sexual-harassment-top/employment-employee-sexual-harassment-facts.html

Federal Law
Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964: Equal Employment Opportunity
http://employment.findlaw.com/employment/employment-employee-discrimination-harassment/civil-rights-title-7.html

www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/sexual_harassment.cfm
“The harasser can be the victim's supervisor, a supervisor in another area, a co-worker, or someone who is not an employee of the employer, such as a client or customer.”

State Laws
www.toolkit.com/small_business_guide/sbg.aspx?nid=P05_5190

[seoulsearch]

Just wanted to say, I am taking in everyone's suggestions and appreciate your input very much, especially from those who are dealing with the same kinds of issues.

It's a tricky situation because the comments are usually random and fortunately, few-and-far between, but not any less disturbing. To further complicate matters, my boss is also a long-time family friend whom I have a lot of respect for but of course, no situation is perfect. I'm really impressed because in all honesty, I thought people were going to say, "Oh, it's not a big deal, just learn to forgive and turn the other cheek."

Thank you all for the links, and if you have more experiences/suggestions, please keep them coming.