Complex Issue-Transgender

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kkt6

Guest
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I have a question and its something that has been on my mind off and on again.

For people who have transgendered meaning that they have the surgery, this is before they knew Christ. If they found Christ after being transgendered , how does that work?

Would it still be considered a sin if a man who has trasngendered to a woman to be dating a man? Would they have to change back to themselves ??? Science and technology have really complicated some issues.
 
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lost1972

Banned
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Sep 13, 2012
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rhis is a really thorny issue what about people born with both sexes? it does happen, what would a person like that do?
 
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Gabriel777

Guest
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no matter the physical mutation, the soul inside is already chosen
 
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kkt6

Guest
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hmm I myself am confused with that also. But I think stuff like this should be talked about more in the church. I have a friend who said he was gay since 3 years old and i'm like how would you know that. These issues are becoming more and more prevalent and we as Christians need to be prepared to deal with them
 
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Gabriel777

Guest
#5
#5
Would it still be considered a sin if a man who has trasngendered to a woman to be dating a man? Would they have to change back to themselves ??? Science and technology have really complicated some issues.[/quote]

That would be like saying if a gay person still with their partner is a sin after being saved. It IS a sin
 
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kkt6

Guest
#6
#6
I understand that but would it be considered homosexual ? because they was born a man and just had surgery... so would it be a sin that's my question I know God accepts us but our body is a temple onto Him so i don't know how that would work. Should the person just become celibate?
 
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Gabriel777

Guest
#7
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from what i've learned, it's all about the soul of the person. They are already created with a purpose, but due to sin itself manifested through genetic mutations and brain malfunctions, the person may get confused. They must use the Word as their filter.
 
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IDromos

Guest
#8
#8
Gabriel777 said:
no matter the physical mutation, the soul inside is already chosen
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Exactly. And the bible talks about men who are effeminate and the like 1 Cor 6:9. I really throw transgenders into that category. If a trans gets saved he has to leave his sins behind and follow Christ even if its hard for him. The same goes for any sexual sin whether it is Hetero or Homo.

kkt6 said:
Science and technology have really complicated some issues.
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The world always wants to complicate following the truth. We need to just stick to the word and trust the Lord and his wisdom.
 
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Gabriel777

Guest
#9
#9
kkt6 said:
I understand that but would it be considered homosexual ? because they was born a man and just had surgery... so would it be a sin that's my question I know God accepts us but our body is a temple onto Him so i don't know how that would work. Should the person just become celibate?
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If that person who changed their sex becomes saved and still lives with their partner yes its a sin. That is the whole point of repenting. Now for the physical part, honestly that's a tough one. What I think is that the person should try to revert back to their original form as much as they can, naturally if they are saved they would want to. And for the sex part...It would be better if they remained celibate.
 
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Gabriel777

Guest
#10
#10
IDromos said:
Exactly. And the bible talks about men who are effeminate and the like 1 Cor 6:9. And I really throw transgenders into that category. If a trans gets saved he has to leave his sins behind and follow Christ even if its hard for him. The same goes for any sexual sin whether it is Hetero or Homo.


The world always wants to complicate following the truth. We need to just stick to the word and trust the Lord and his wisdom.
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YES. If a person struggles all his life with that one sin all the way to the end of the race, they will make it. God knows their heart.
 
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libertygirl

Guest
#11
#11
kkt6 said:
Would it still be considered a sin if a man who has trasngendered to a woman to be dating a man?
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Yes. It's all about living for God. He can give a transgender person the grace to live a godly life. God's love will be enough for him to get through life until God calls him home. :)
 
Jon4TheCross

Jon4TheCross

Senior Member
#12
Oct 19, 2012
1,864
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King James Version Galatians 3:28 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

1Corinthians 7: 23 Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men. 24 Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God.
� KJV

It's better to live in an eternal perspective that won't change.
God knows why the person did it, and the born again spirit is made of Light.
I love you all.
 
exbi-savedbygrace

exbi-savedbygrace

Senior Member
#13
Dec 25, 2012
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Think about it like this. If I alter a Toyota with different body kits and make it look like a Ferrari it doesn't become an authentic Ferrari. At the very core it it is a Toyota. it was designed as a Toyotaand all the external modifications don't change that.
 
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buggeorge

Guest
#14
#14
Hats off to all these replies to this question, the wisdom coming from such young people is outstanding and I praise the Lord for all of your wisdom
WOW !!
 
SarahM777

SarahM777

Banned
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Dec 26, 2012
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What you have not heard is from one who is dealing with some of these very issues. How about listening to one who is? First issue is that God expects us the same as any others to be ye Holy as He is Holy. Just because we deal with this issue does not give us a license to sin.

First we need to remember God sees the heart of a person. God knows what is inside. We as humans too often see the outside only and judge by that which we see. How often do we ask God to see others as He sees them?
The first issue that is stated is on the surgery. Is it wrong to correct something that may be a birth defect? The example that is used is a Toyota. Now the question is are we dealing with a Toyota body and a Ferrari engine and we are just changing one to fit the other? If that is the case why would that be sin?

Now for marriage,Jesus tells us God made them male and female,no amount of human doctors can change certain realities,our body can never be totally female or male,unless God Himself were to transform us in this life,this being the case I believe it leaves only two options,one that most of us are to remain celibate or the only other option is for a male to female to meet and marry a female to male.

As I was told by the Lord this was allowed so that He may be glorified through this and His grace is sufficient for me. I need hold on and He will get me through this.
 
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BarlyGurl

Guest
#16
#16
SarahM777 said:
What you have not heard is from one who is dealing with some of these very issues. How about listening to one who is? First issue is that God expects us the same as any others to be ye Holy as He is Holy. Just because we deal with this issue does not give us a license to sin.

First we need to remember God sees the heart of a person. God knows what is inside. We as humans too often see the outside only and judge by that which we see. How often do we ask God to see others as He sees them?
The first issue that is stated is on the surgery. Is it wrong to correct something that may be a birth defect? The example that is used is a Toyota. Now the question is are we dealing with a Toyota body and a Ferrari engine and we are just changing one to fit the other? If that is the case why would that be sin?

Now for marriage,Jesus tells us God made them male and female,no amount of human doctors can change certain realities,our body can never be totally female or male,unless God Himself were to transform us in this life,this being the case I believe it leaves only two options,one that most of us are to remain celibate or the only other option is for a male to female to meet and marry a female to male.

As I was told by the Lord this was allowed so that He may be glorified through this and His grace is sufficient for me. I need hold on and He will get me through this.
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You go to far by alluding that "reassignment" somehow corrects the issue. It is very RARE for a person to be born truly transgender- meaning having the both penis and vagina. The term transgender is more commonly used to describe a person who believes God made a mistake and feels their identity opposes their sex. There is no need for you to identify which "class of transgender" you belong... the scripture is clear that homosexuality is forbidden and that some people are born eunuchs... there is absolutely NO ROOM for sexual reassignment SORRY.
 
SarahM777

SarahM777

Banned
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Dec 26, 2012
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I maybe wrong but didn't I say that most of us that deal with this are to remain celibate? Aren't eunuchs celibate? As far as homosexuality is concernedit is a form of adultery along with premarital sex,pornography,bisexuality and mastrabation. The definition you use for transgender is not the accepted definition

Webster's Transgender : of, relating to, or being a person (as a transsexual or transvestite) who identifies with or expresses a gender identity that differs from the one which corresponds to the person's sex at birth

What you are referring to is a hermaphrodite

Webster's Hermaphrodite : an animal or plant having both male and female reproductive organs
 
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BarlyGurl

Guest
#18
#18
SarahM777 said:
I maybe wrong but didn't I say that most of us that deal with this are to remain celibate? Aren't eunuchs celibate? As far as homosexuality is concernedit is a form of adultery along with premarital sex,pornography,bisexuality and mastrabation. The definition you use for transgender is not the accepted definition

Webster's Transgender : of, relating to, or being a person (as a transsexual or transvestite) who identifies with or expresses a gender identity that differs from the one which corresponds to the person's sex at birth

What you are referring to is a hermaphrodite

Webster's Hermaphrodite : an animal or plant having both male and female reproductive organs
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Thank you for clearing up the vocabulary and re-enforcing my point.
 
SarahM777

SarahM777

Banned
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Dec 26, 2012
5,853
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Did I not also say that surgery can not fix certain realities? For those that are intersexed surgery may correct certain things. For the rest of us only God can transform us in the proper way. Nor in any way shape or form do I blame God for a making a mistake. We live in a world that is cursed and broken,people are born with birth defects from chemicals and hormones also. How much do these things affect our body? Can you or anyone else say how far,how deep and how wide the fact that sin exists has affected us in so many ways that we can not understand?

I hold on to this promise because it means so much to me

Romans 8

18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19 For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. 20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that[h] the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.

22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.

28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
 
exbi-savedbygrace

exbi-savedbygrace

Senior Member
#20
Dec 25, 2012
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AT Sarah I did at one point actually struggle with a desire to undergo gender reassignment, but whether I did or didn't doesn't qualify any more or less to speak on this matter from a strictly biblical perspective. Now concerning transgenders you ask if it is wrong to correct something that is a birth defect. Gender is not a birth defect. If you were born a genetic male but desire or feel more inclined to act as a female the issues of identity your is one that can only truly be repaired by finding a new identity in Christ. For all that we think we are should be surrendered and laid down at the foot of the cross to find our identity in Christ. Our masculinity or femininity can only be reclaimed and restored by seeking who we are in Christ. What we are inclined towards does not define us. Some are more incline to lie than others. They must reject that and reclaim who they are in Christ. We all as a result of the fall have a broken and imperfect view of humanity and as a result a broken sexuality and perverse view on gender identity and gender roles. This can only be brought to restitution under the mind of Christ. If a person has undergone major transformitive surgery that is irreversable then while there situation poses difficulty it is not without hope. It is difficult to say how they should proceed specifically in regards to relationships. Surely they are genetically male and to engage in relationships with another is homosexuality. This is clearly sin. If they are female in appearance and have transitioned their sexual organs it wouldn't be wise of them to engage in relations with a woman because it corrupts the witness and gives the appearance of email and can also cause emotional and sexual confusion for all parties involved. While it would seem reasonable for two transgendered persons who have transitioned to opposite genders to have a relationship we still have the obvious difficulties of God's purpose in marriage. Neither party can truly fulfill their God given gender roles without confusion. I would say that ultimately celibacy would be the best option. However there have been several cases of transgendered persons who transitioned back to their original gender after conversion. That would be the most advisable. At the end of the day we have to realize that these difficulties occur as a result of our falleness and though God is sovereign these are the situations which occur when God turns us over to our debased minds to fulfill our lusts. We end up predicaments outside of God's prescriptive will.

Now in the case of intersexed individuals that is much different from transexualism(or transgenderism). I do feel that the complexities posed by the intersexed do not have to be ignored however thy are quite difficult to determin dogma concerning them. If we are honest we have absolutely nothing dogmatic from scripture concerning the issue(although some have applied the situation of a eunuch). I think that intersexed individuals have to embrace the very same Gospel that the relationship aspects of the intersexed ae not without many controversies and much lack of clarity.
 
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